Post: #1

We have a thread on good looking guy game, so lets have a thread on ugly guy game. I'm not talking about game for normal average guys. This is about game for guys who are short and have terrible facial genetics. What kind of game should those guys run? It's hard for me to tell if I'm ugly or just average looking since I get so much noise though fortunately I'm tall. Should ugly guys overgame? My opinion is that you have to really stand out and be an eccentric personality or else you will get ignored. Social circle is also your best friend since girls won't automatically disqualify in that setting. My ugly friend has found success in focusing on a niche. He might never get a blonde bombshell but he does well with hipster chicks because he tailored his look to that of a hipster.

Post: #2

Good-Looking Guy Game = Just show up, don't fuck up

Ugly-Guy Game = Rest of the forum

Post: #3

(12-06-2012 10:06 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  Good-Looking Guy Game = Just show up, don't fuck up

Ugly-Guy Game = Rest of the forum

That's average guy game. I'm talking about the short, undesirable race, horrible genetics guy game. What does that guy do to have a chance? I don't think most of this forum has bad genetics.

Post: #4

Wear makeup.

Post: #5

(12-06-2012 10:18 PM)jammer Wrote:  That's average guy game. I'm talking about the short, undesirable race, horrible genetics guy game. What does that guy do to have a chance? I don't think most of this forum has bad genetics.

I'm not trying to be cynical here, but I do think an ugly guy just has to do the same things we advocate around here, just more and better. There's less room for error the uglier you get.

1. Workout, eat well.
2. Spit the tightest verbal game possible.
3. Dress like a champ.
4. Have bomb logistical skills.
5. Dance well.
6. Run a business, make money, get status.

That's why the good-looking guy threads are silly. If you're actually good-looking, you can do less of that stuff and fuck it up a little.

It really is that simple. If you could draw a chart--with game and looks on different axes--there'd be a very proportional relationship between the two. If you added a third dimension--status/social proof--then you could really narrow it down.

Post: #6

I honestly think good facial looks are equivalent to money. So if you aren't good looking you have to find another way to make up for it. Be rich, and even if you have bad facial genetics you will be on equal footing with somebody with somebody who is good looking. Add in status and you will be on better footing (assuming they don't have either). If you don't want to go the money way, that's when you turn to developing good personality attributes. Body is also a big one, and one that we have near complete control over so that will improve looks. There is actually a book that explains all this called understanding sexual attraction: what makes a woman want you

Post: #7

For guys who aren't blessed with the most handsome face and are below what is considered average, I'd say status has got to be your best friend. If you can find some form of niche or "fishbowl" where you develop status you can still attract women, and possibly get better quality than better looking guys. (Case in Point), there is this short, scrawny hipster dude in my town who isn't ugly, but certainly not classically handsome, while I will give the guy credit for having his niche style down and having swag, the guy is a dubstep DJ and gets chicks due to having status. Dubstep is really popular in parts of NorCal and if you are a respected DJ you can score cute young chicks that are into that scene.

So DJ is my best example, but if you can excel in some other realm that women find intriguing or attractive you can make a name for yourself and develop some status, whether it be for playing guitar in a band, being a sick tattoo artist, or even bartending at the most popular spot in town. Now a lot of this stuff requires having a certain skill set so develop yourself in other realms of life.

Aside from status, the most obvious would be get a really amazing body. If you hit the gym hard, and commit to it as a lifestyle for 5 plus years you can morph your body into the ideal of what women find attractive. I believe women prioritize a man's face over his body typically, but having a good physique will help compensate for sure. Right along with the body is your style and grooming, which should go without saying. If you are impeccably groomed and are the best dressed guy in the venue, I'd say add 1/2 to your total on the looks scale.

The next and final obvious thing is lifestyle and bankroll, if you're balling and have the lifestyle to go with it, it will make you more attractive to women, although you will have to watch your back with gold diggers.

Post: #8

(12-06-2012 10:28 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  If you could draw a chart--with game and looks on different axes--there'd be a very proportional relationship between the two. If you added a third dimension--status/social proof--then you could really narrow it down.

IMO an almost inverse exponential relationship seems more accurate.

Post: #9

Watch some Joe Pesci

Post: #10

Yad

Post: #11

(12-07-2012 01:25 AM)Prophylaxis Wrote:  

(12-06-2012 10:28 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  If you could draw a chart--with game and looks on different axes--there'd be a very proportional relationship between the two. If you added a third dimension--status/social proof--then you could really narrow it down.

IMO an almost inverse exponential relationship seems more accurate.

So you theorize that a guy with immaculate looks can get a 10 with zero game? I thought a strain of good looking guys exists that can't get a girl if their life depended on it.

Post: #12

(12-07-2012 12:12 PM)reino341 Wrote:  

(12-07-2012 01:25 AM)Prophylaxis Wrote:  

(12-06-2012 10:28 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  If you could draw a chart--with game and looks on different axes--there'd be a very proportional relationship between the two. If you added a third dimension--status/social proof--then you could really narrow it down.

IMO an almost inverse exponential relationship seems more accurate.

So you theorize that a guy with immaculate looks can get a 10 with zero game? I thought a strain of good looking guys exists that can't get a girl if their life depended on it.

I've been out with guys who are literally models and they barely have to even open their mouth to land a 9. I've heard them open with 'What's your name?' - and they get puppy dog eyes as a response. The girl is so invested into the interaction she will do whatever to it takes to keep conversation flowing. These guys make the best wingmen FYI.

Just to clarify what Roosh has already said - this only seems true in Western countries where aesthetics play an enormous role in Game.

An ugly guy either better suck it up and get really fucking good at game and/or move to EE.

Post: #13

So the guys with model looks only have to not put in work in Western countries? I don't get how that works. Is it a disadvantage in other countries?

Post: #14

That dude in Smitty's video looks like a fat IRT.

Post: #15

Wear sweatpants to the strip club. Pull out your gangster roll of cash and hand out hundreds like Halloween candy to every girl in the place. Drink champagne in a nice fluted glass instead of beer in bottles like the rest of the guys there. Don't wear any underwear so you can get the full experience of a lap dance you get from the 90 pound Asian stripper you book an hour at a time. Buy her a cellphone so she's obligated to answer it every time you call. Don't forget to bring her gifts at the bar. She likes jewelry and huge fluffy teddy bears. She'll add them to her collection on her bed which you may get to see one day when she invites you over for a "private dance" at her going rate of $500/hour. Then you go brag to your friends at work how you have a hot Asian stripper as a fuck buddy and you stay over at her place a few nights a week. But she'll never tie you down because you're just too much of a man to settle for just one woman.

Not a troll post. This is a real guy I know that's "engaged" to my ex. True story.

Post: #16

look at biggie smalls and lil wayne. if you are that ugly then you need some serious status. really ugly short dudes with no status will have trouble even if they have seemingly good game. For a 5'2 dude who is fat, indian and ugly as fuck to pull like a dude who is 6 feet and handsome, he would have to have the lifestyle. Going to the club with an entourage, nice city apartment etc. Basically he would need almost celeb status. Even so many ugly ass celebs dudes still pay for pussy.

Post: #17

Wayne also has the ultimate banging song in "Lollipop". That had to vault his status by itself - even with him being famous before he made it.

Post: #18

If I was an ugly guy what I would do is this:

1. Hit the gym and be in the best possible shape.
2. I would always be super fly when it came to dressing.
3. I'd become friends with girls and try my best to work the social circle angle.
4. I'd try to become a lawyer or an engineer or something that had status and paid well.
5. I'd keep a nice car. Not just a decent car but a really nice one. A used Beamer or Jag or something.
6. I'd have immaculate conversational skills and would be well versed on many topics.

If your a conspicuously ugly dude then you have to over compensate for that by maximizing the things you can control and then just letting the chips fall where they may.

At the same time, everybody is not going to be this world renowned PUA. It's just not in the cards for every dude to be able to just be great with women. If I was an ugly dude then I'd just get my notches when I could without outright losing my pride by chasing a bitch and I'd eventually just settle down with a nice girl and focus on other aspects of life.

Post: #19

^TheIV, Imagine if you did all these things now! (without being ugly, that is)

Post: #20

Guys I'm a huge advocate of hitting the gym, and for sure I think having a nice physique will give you an edge, but I am really starting to think that it's not that much of an X factor, unless you are ridiculous ripped and have the perfect ratio of muscle mass to definition with a low body fat percentage. I'm going about 20 months straight at the gym, doing all the right lifts...

While I am in good shape and when wear the right clothes, you can tell I'm pretty buff, I still see plenty of dudes who are chubby or hella skinny that are pulling better quality than me. This could be chalked up to a lot of different factors, including my game not being as sharp as it should be, but I'll admit that I get frustrated when I see a scrawny tooth pick guy who probably only weighs 140 with a hot chick, when I know that I've put in mad work at the gym and easily have 40 pounds of muscle on the guy.

I know this all sounds very haterish, and I will admit it kind of is... I guess I'm just feeling hung over, shitty, and a little resentful after a frustrating night, last night. Not sure if this rant is in the proper thread or really warranted at all.

What I'm getting after is, being fit and in shape, won't make that much of a difference, unless you are as ripped as the Hodge Twins.





If you're going to hit the gym hard, do it for you, don't do it with the expectation that it will make you THAT much more attractive to women. It is merely one of many, many factors that will increase your chances with attractive women. To get ripped to shreds without steroids or amazing genetics, I think it will be a minimum 3 year commitment, probably more like 5.

Post: #21

(12-07-2012 07:08 PM)houston Wrote:  So the guys with model looks only have to not put in work in Western countries? I don't get how that works.

Yep. Girls will make it as easy as possible for him to approach, e.g. hovering within his proximity, obvious eye contact or even 'accidently' bumping into him. They might as well sit on his lap. I've seen this happen to one of my mates who does work for an online fashion site.

Sure, a model can learn game, but I think it's almost unnecessary as they have already been conditioned from a young age.

(12-07-2012 07:08 PM)houston Wrote:  Is it a disadvantage in other countries?

Not at all, but rather their looks won't count as much as their ability to provide.

Post: #22

@ 6:21 "Your friend looks stunning in that coat."

Yikes! This Yad guy has got some good day game material, but that made me cringe. Maybe it was just the way he said it. He says it like he actually wanted to fuck the coat itself. Gave me a good laugh.

Post: #23

I disagree with good looks reducing the need for game.

Good looking guys get more offers, but they still need game to close. Without proper active game he won't get shit.

I've seen tons of handsome white men couldn't pull to save their lives.


However, learning some game is damn easy when you're attractive, due to near unlimited opportunities to practice. Once a good looking guy learns the basics of game, he fuck so much good looking poon most men will be wildly jealous.

Post: #24

(12-08-2012 06:02 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  Guys I'm a huge advocate of hitting the gym, and for sure I think having a nice physique will give you an edge, but I am really starting to think that it's not that much of an X factor, unless you are ridiculous ripped and have the perfect ratio of muscle mass to definition with a low body fat percentage. I'm going about 20 months straight at the gym, doing all the right lifts...

While I am in good shape and when wear the right clothes, you can tell I'm pretty buff, I still see plenty of dudes who are chubby or hella skinny that are pulling better quality than me. This could be chalked up to a lot of different factors, including my game not being as sharp as it should be, but I'll admit that I get frustrated when I see a scrawny tooth pick guy who probably only weighs 140 with a hot chick, when I know that I've put in mad work at the gym and easily have 40 pounds of muscle on the guy.

I know this all sounds very haterish, and I will admit it kind of is... I guess I'm just feeling hung over, shitty, and a little resentful after a frustrating night, last night. Not sure if this rant is in the proper thread or really warranted at all.

What I'm getting after is, being fit and in shape, won't make that much of a difference, unless you are as ripped as the Hodge Twins.

If you're going to hit the gym hard, do it for you, don't do it with the expectation that it will make you THAT much more attractive to women. It is merely one of many, many factors that will increase your chances with attractive women. To get ripped to shreds without steroids or amazing genetics, I think it will be a minimum 3 year commitment, probably more like 5.

Working out, especially in the urban community, creates BARE MINIMAL advantage if any at all. Thats right...if ANY AT ALL.

I want to show you guys a couple of pictures, here are two of my facebook friends who were both "skinny" in high school and did not do well with the ladies. hit the gym HARD...like 5 days a week hard and got huge and ripped. And you know how many women it increased for them....and i quote "just more bold fat bitches" Thats right it just increased the BOLDNESS of undesirable women.

Here is a picture of one of his facebook pics


I highlighted in red that he has 0 likes...thats right 0 LIKES. I saw this picture in my feed just like most of our 80+ mutual friends and guess what not a single one of the women liked it. I wont even waste time of how many likes a girls pic get

here is a second pic

now i highlighted that this picture to show that he did get likes...a whopping 2. Now it did get some comments from girls...2 fat girls and one average girl...thats it. Eating healthy, an hour in the gym every other day, tremendous sacrifice and discpline and for what???? To get 2 fat girls and an average chick?!?!?! wow...smh

Here is another friend of mine...who is even MORE RIPPED that my previous friend and lets guess how many likes or comments his MODELING PHOTO received...thats right MODELING PHOTO!


ZERO LIKES....ZERO COMMENTS!!!! WOW! Insane! Im not going to go deep to show you that he has a plethora of friends on Facebook so its not like he has only 20 friends on his account.

Here is another picture


This picture also got ZERO LIKES but did get some comments....lets see her, one fat white girl, one fat black girl and an ugly black girl. THATS IT!

And I see this in the hood all the time, guys who have Muscles but if it doesnt come with Money and/or whatever urban women are latching onto these days (this year its Swag, 15 years ago it was Thug Life)...your muscles are as pointless as a ejection seats on a helicopter

now i have another friend, he's like 6'4, 165lbs of skin and bones, yet he has pulled some of the hottest tail in the tristate area of Philly, NY, and NJ. Now he canceled his facebook because it was "getting him in trouble' but he still has an instagram. And i just want to show you how many likes he gets from a picture and 90% of the likes are from women and 20 % of the women are 7's are better!






i wish he didnt delete his facebook i wish i could show you pictures where there are literally women fighting over who likes him more, and these are 8s!!!!

My point is that working out is thing that adds "beauty" to you, but women don't VALUE "beauty" the same way men do, it so it has marginal affects when compared to when a woman adds "beauty" value to herself by working out which is a tremendous value adder for them.

Post: #25

To the guys who are 'ripped' or the examples above.

They have the product, but it's being marketed terribly. Posing shirtless just makes it look like you jack off to yourself in front of a mirror. Try for something more subtle and less douchey. Women will come flocking.