Post: #1

Was out the other night and something caught my attention. It is perhaps were re-emphasizing - if it has not been already been done (I'm sure Roosh has talked about positioning yourself in a bar when going solo) - that if you are out sharking alone, never sit at a bar. The number of times I've seen lone guys forlornly sitting at a bar, it gets depressing. Sure there are moments to sit but this vibe does not evoke a guy of energy, charisma who is going places. Unless you are on the wrong side of seventy or there are mitigating circumstances that might condone it, never sit.

Post: #2

I'll also add the obvious but easy to violate rule of not pulling your phone out and messing around on it all night. Occasionally is good I think and perceived as normal, but keeping it out cuts you off from being open and conversational.

Post: #3

Interesting.. before we get to actual "sitting" thing let's go deeper...

- why does it get depressing to see guys sitting?
- what does sitting on a barstool feeling relaxed, in your opinion, have to do with your actual energy/charisma?
- do you think that specific position (standing/sitting) conveys more/less, let's say, status/coolness?

Just curious

Post: #4

Sitting is often associated with a sedentary lifestyle.
Sitting implies laziness - the easy option.

Standing (with the option to sit) implies impending movement - progression.
Standing (with the chance to sit) conveys options of movement - choice.

I cannot speak for others, but seeing someone sitting alone conveys someone who has chosen an unnecessary but easy option and this in turn gives off an aura that is not the most conducive to attracting females.

Maybe others can go deeper still....

Post: #5

The most important thing when rolling solo, IMO, is just to look comfortable and at ease. If the bar isn't too packed, it can look far weirder just standing erect glancing about.

Not playing with your phone is definitely an essential rule, however.

Post: #6

You can sit, stand, walk around doesn't really matter. What matters, is how you feel while you are doing these things. Everything you do when you roll should be all about getting yourself to feel comfortable, confident, and in the zone. Dress however, drink whatever, do whatever to get into the zone. Because once you are operating within the zone, all that other stuff, becomes inconsequential.

PS By "in the zone" I mean being able to approach girls with the mentally that I am worthy of you and really believe it. It means being able to express your sexuality without feeling ashamed of it. It means, feeling, like there is a wolf inside of you about to come out.

Post: #7

Sitting is a key part of going out alone, you just can't sit around all night.

You want to sit in a high enough traffic area that people are coming into contact with you and/or have people close enough around that you can chat them up.

But you also want to make sure to move around enough to keep your energy going.

Post: #8

(11-28-2012 02:52 PM)adrian_D Wrote:  ...if you are out sharking alone, never sit at a bar...

very interesting observation. i know for me, at least, i used to get pretty self-conscious when i went out by myself. but the reason i'm mostly over that now is because i can honestly say that the presence of a friend has in no way ever helped me get a girl. i still had to work just as hard. just like how we can read a girl's body language, people in general can read ours. i have to sometimes remind myself, whether you're uncomfortable or confident being out alone, people will sense that, so go for the latter.

i will admit, i went to a bar area inside a restaurant months ago during my lunch hour a few months ago. was only 4 people there, not including the bartenders. one of them was a girl (never saw before) who i guess was also on her lunch hour. she, herself, started up a conversation with me a few minutes later, which you have to wonder had i have been there with friends, if she would have done that. you have to gauge and approach every situation differently. nothing wrong with sitting at a bar alone, as long as it's not someone's immediate default move. and as long as you don't spend the whole night staring at the television screens behind the bartender thinking that it will help deflect the obvious. courage is key.

Post: #9

(11-28-2012 04:33 PM)adrian_D Wrote:  Sitting is often associated with a sedentary lifestyle.
Sitting implies laziness - the easy option.

Standing (with the option to sit) implies impending movement - progression.
Standing (with the chance to sit) conveys options of movement - choice

Those qualities you project on others are more reflection of yourself rather than accurate judgement of that person. In human communication the move/gesture/word/etc itself is just spontaneous expression, it doesn't say much about who you actually are. It's similar to saying that approaching over the shoulder is always non needy and cool and when you do it everybody knows instantly that you're the shit just because you did that one little tricky move. That's massive black & white oversimplification.

I'm 100% with Nomad, sitting / standing / moving / posting up / whatever you do is all good unless you feel uncomfortable and anxious. And that contrived defensive vibe comes feeling worried that you're not impressive enough and feeling anxious about being judged badly by people. Eradicating those tendencies allows you to get in fun mood in the venue which makes "positioning" monitoring obsolete.

Post: #10

there is nothing wrong sitting by yourself. It's about your vibe.
You can see creepy guys standing around with holding a beer. you can see a guy sitting by himself but he seems confident being their by himself and enjoying his own drink.

I go out weekly solo. I feel pressured to talk to someone since standing by myself for a while is noticeable. When there are not people you can talk to, it's better to sit down and wait for the opportunity. (crouching tiger)

Post: #11

I mostly stand in nightclubs or "bar" bars.

In upscale restaurant lounges I mostly sit.

But I decide on a case by case basis depending on the venue, time of night, the vibe of the place and my mood

Post: #12

I guess part of the reason why you stand (or "post up") at the bar is because you're scanning the room, which may be more difficult from a seated position.

Post: #13

Yeah. Come on, if you're by yourself it is so easy to sit down, lean back, and watch ESPN on the flatscreen and maybe, maybe wait for an apple to fall in your lap. I agree sitting or standing, what matters is your mentality. But a guy who's alone and is sitting typically has the profile of a man who's going to throw back some beers, get drunk, and go home.

Post: #14

The one thing that I try to do is not just standing at the bar in a club or a bar but keep moving around or taking walks around the club if you will. That way, I don't look like a wallflower.I'm walking around scanning the room for chicks to open but to the outsider, it looks like I'm looking for my friends.

Post: #15

Should my plans for next year work out, I told myself I better get used to going out alone a lot at first. If it's something I felt I couldn't do, even minimally, then I wouldn't bother. But after talking to this girl in the city when I was at the bar by myself, anything's possible.

Bar or club hopping is also smart, especially with getting to know the ones that have expensive cover charges just to walk in, and when to avoid them. Because there might be one or two venues where it seems like everybody is talking to someone and then, out of nowhere, you walk in by yourself after it's already crowded. Can be a little deflating, but you can just as easy, walk out and try somewhere else. Destroy the urge to call it a night and just go home. Doing this enough times as the weeks go by, you eventually might find the best spots to go out solo, and hopefully, find some girls thereafter.

Post: #16

I usually go out with friends but when I go solo, I have found that being relaxed and hanging out on the patio or right outside the bar is a good place to start conversation with chicks. Depending on the layout or situation determines if my chances are better sitting or standing. Also, if you dont like to approach, sitting at a middle position of a bar is great because all of the traffic that comes by there you dont have to "approach" at all.

Post: #17

A number of responses appear to condone the idea of sitting in a bar. As some have argued, "whatever you do is all good unless you feel uncomfortable and anxious." Reading the latest posting on Chateau Heartiste reminds me why I do not like seeing guys sitting in bars no matter how relaxed and comfortable they might appear to be. Roissy (assuming he is still the writer) argues that verbal communication is overrated by men whilst body language is underrated. He goes on to say, "The upshot to this formula [which he explains] is that men can chill a bit on the pressure to say the right thing, if they work to adjust their body language so that it does most of the talking for them." The point to remember here is that whilst sitting comfortably at a bar is all well and good, it does not convey the most positive message. Even supposing a man's emotional state is fine, he is still not maximizing his chances.

I still believe that standing (correctly) offers the chance for a guy to get noticed - certainly more so than hunched over a beer.

Post: #18

dude I sat at a bar alone and got laid that night. case closed.

Post: #19

(12-01-2012 04:20 AM)adrian_D Wrote:  The point to remember here is that whilst sitting comfortably at a bar is all well and good, it does not convey the most positive message. Even supposing a man's emotional state is fine, he is still not maximizing his chances.

Since you view human interaction like algorithm, let's go a bit deeper to get to the root of it if you don't mind..

1. What specific position in a bar conveys the most positive message and why?

2. What is so superior about standing in a bar that it maximizes your chances and why for example sitting is not as effective?

Post: #20

One thing about sitting is that when you finally see someone you want to approach, you have to exert much more effort which makes the approach seem like a bigger deal, perhaps having a subconscious effect on both you and the target. Reminds me of this article.

Personally I like to stand, much more feasible to chat up girls walking by and approach when opportunities arise. Of course if it's a venue with a lot of people (weekend, basically), there's no excuse for me to be standing around by myself. I'm still trying to push myself to implement the type of game in scarce venues where you're always in a set even befriending some dudes if need be.

(12-01-2012 04:56 AM)XXL Wrote:  1. What specific position in a bar conveys the most positive message and why?

2. What is so superior about standing in a bar that it maximizes your chances and why for example sitting is not as effective?

One thing that comes to mind regarding standing vs. sitting is that by standing you're making yourself much more approachable. So while you're obviously not relying on people to open you verbally, it might work in your favor in terms of getting warm signals from girls and dudes chatting you up (very much welcome when I'm solo) at the bar especially.

Post: #21

(12-01-2012 04:56 AM)XXL Wrote:  Since you view human interaction like algorithm, let's go a bit deeper to get to the root of it if you don't mind..

I think you'll find it more productive if you read Roissy's insights. He articulates the issue of body language far better than I ever could:

http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2012/11/3...zle-women/

PS I believe Roosh has already outlined the best positions to place yourself in bars in another post.

Post: #22

Ok got through the whole thing, God knows how, it was such a painful circle jerk speculation, in fact actual jerking off would be more productive, at least we could use it and donate it somewhere.

This is why I hate academic mumbo jumbo about pickup, those bloggers really like to complicate simple things. No wonder that guys new to pickup get so stressed about socializing when they read that kind of stuff. "Am I still IBL + IBC or DBL + IVC now??" haha fuck that mr. ingineer, your arbitrary rules of human interaction are not accurate at all. I mean really, guys try to memorize all those weird thing to break it down like some sort of sudoku game and what happens then? does that analytical/mathematical approach actually help them to meet a girl in real life dynamic situations? No, rather it painfully fist fucks them in the ass. They get overwhelmed with all this theory, start second guessing themselves, get stiff and contrived, get inside their head, project that anxious vibe to the girl and get poor results.

Ok, so back on topic. Good body language is simply not bad body language. Whether you sit or stand or move or not it's irrelevant cause that's not how you convey value to the girl. Let's be real, when you're in a bar can you really say that those 2 guys standing are cooler than those 5 guys sitting there? Not really. it's completely arbitrary.

Futhermore, by understanding social dynamics for what it really is you have no reason to consciously control your body positioning. If you want to be that precise then the > good vibe < you should project in a bar situation is being relaxed easygoing and fun. When you come from that place it's all good. You can be chatting with your friend sitting down a girl passes you by and stand up ask question shake hands and it's A L L G O O D. Your value/status/etc doesn't get hurt by you moving your ass from you chair to talk to a girl. It's fine. Nobody in the venue will think "oh he's try hard hahaha" beside you and some blogger that told you that. It's all in your head.

Roosh prefers posting up thing cause it's an easy way to stand in busy area and talk to girls passing by creating an illusion that they come to you instead you coming to them. Sure that is one way to go about it why not. There are other ways. None of them is better or worse. Just bit different.

I encourage you to step out of that analytical approach to socializing.

Post: #23

I've been working bars solo for more than a decade. I sit when I feel like it. When I'm in a bar I'm comfortable with I'm in complete control. I can project any vibe, image or atmosphere around me that my imagination can conjure. When you're operating like that standing/sitting is negligible micromanagement.