Post: #1

I'm a systems analysis. My job is basically to analyze and understand a business problem then create a solution to eliminate or reduce it. In looking at ways to improve my lot with women I have read a lot of material on the subject, including ALL of Roosh's pickup books. I went back in time and read a lot of the original stuff like The Game and a lot of stuff that's not even directly related to gaming. In the end this is what I finally concluded. There are basically two types of guys that do very well with women. (We are not including the one-off exceptions here, which I know exist.)

1. There's the guys, like Roosh and others on here, who are willing to put in serious amount of work gaming girls on a regular basis.

2. Then there are the guys who primarily because of their lifestyle, good job, car, apartment, race, looks, etc. plus a certain amount of game also get a lot of girls. (These guys will pull a lot more 8+ girls that the pure game guys. They will also do so with a lot less work and game.)

One kind of guy puts in the hours by gaming, the other, into creating a lifestyle. Roosh wrote recently that the No. 2 option is probably the way to go on his new blog and I would have to agree. I think Gio will also agree with us

For guys looking for a short-cut or some trick. I never found one and there was never any way to get any girl you want, like a lot of these pickup courses advertise.

As I get older the lifestyle will become more important. So, what this has done is actually caused me to cut back on how much time and energy I put into gaming, as much as I love it, and to redirect that energy and time into building a new business which will allow me to live outside of the US. (My current business, which did allow me to do that, is going to hell.) I was also really hoping to find something special, something that would offset the sheer numbers game you have to run. But the only thing I have found that consistently does that, here in the US, is an attractive lifestyle (money) or some sort of fame.

Getting a lot of quality women is no different than making a lot of money: you have to earn it, one way or another with a lot of work. There are no short-cuts or tricks.

Post: #2

I agree somewhat.I've looked at the $$$=pussy thing extensively myself and I don't think it's really the money itself that women are drawn too.I think they are drawn to the man that has the balls to go out and get money.When a man "hustles" to get money it's different than if their born into money directly or their born into circumstance that will allow them to get money as an adult.I know alot of guys that have money and the ones that get the girls are the ones that hustle for their money.

Post: #3

First you gotta learn how to game, then you can build a lifestyle around it. People who do it the other way around usually wind up successful betas.

Post: #4

I agree. Money or lifestyle alone won't do it. You still need some game. Within the US, I would say you would need about 20-30%. Outside of the US you can get by with as little as 10%. If you have none, you will just get used and abused. Optimally, I think if you have a lifestyle 70% + 30% game combo you will kill here in the US and just about anywhere else. The lifestyle portion is actually more important IF you want to have LTRs with girls.

The exceptions are like going somewhere were you are exotic, which is harder to do these days.

Post: #5

With all due respect Samseau I think game can be learned at any point in your life. Now, with that said, it's definitely easier to learn the younger you are and the more beneficial it will be.

What does happen with a lot of men is that they focus exclusively on making money and just forget about developing all the other aspects of their lives.

(11-27-2012 11:02 PM)Samseau Wrote:  First you gotta learn how to game, then you can build a lifestyle around it. People who do it the other way around usually wind up successful betas.

Post: #6

I see #1 as being the regular 9-5 working guys that hit the bars on the weekend.

I see #2 as guys in a band or some other exclusive association. This one is interesting because it creates a a sense of local celebrity. Women like to be known as the "Singer's girlfriend" even though the band is some no name shit band that plays a show once a month. What this situation provides women is access to "a scene".

I've done both of these in my life and they both work. Here's the difference. If you're going to take path 2 then be in a band when you're young as possible. All the hot young party girls like to be local celebrities even if the guy they're dating is a nobody. Ideal age for a guy to be in a local band is 15-25. At 25 you can still mack on all the younger girls without a problem. Womem at 25+ are husband shopping and no longer as interested in you.

Dating a guy in a band when the women is 30-40 is not cool anymore. Their family will start to give them shit about it. They're looking for the stable guy with status and money and the 25-40 year old singer in a bar band isn't going to be able to provide that. So instead of fawning all over the singer at the bar they turn their attention to the guy wearing the suit

Post: #7

(11-27-2012 11:09 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  With all due respect Samseau I think game can be learned at any point in your life. Now, with that said, it's definitely easier to learn the younger you are and the more beneficial it will be.

I agree, which is why I said, "usually end up as..."


Some guys learn game later in life, only to realize they've missed countless opportunities.

Learning game young also has spillover effects into other areas of your life, including your professional one. You'll be a happier and friendlier man if you're getting laid regularly, and this warm energy will help any man in the workplace.

Post: #8

Lifestyle becomes more important the older you get.A dope lifestyle+a bevy of chix=True Player Status.

Post: #9

And there are some people on here who have that.

(11-27-2012 11:19 PM)TheMachinist Wrote:  Lifestyle becomes more important the older you get.A dope lifestyle+a bevy of chix=True Player Status.

Post: #10

@Parlay Yep, being a big fish in a small pond will grant you enough fame but it will only work for the local ladies.

Post: #11

The best game is just a positive reflection of an interesting lifestyle.

Post: #12

(11-27-2012 11:24 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  And there are some people on here who have that.

(11-27-2012 11:19 PM)TheMachinist Wrote:  Lifestyle becomes more important the older you get.A dope lifestyle+a bevy of chix=True Player Status.

There's actually plenty of men on this forum who have that.

Post: #13

(11-28-2012 12:07 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(11-27-2012 11:24 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  And there are some people on here who have that.

(11-27-2012 11:19 PM)TheMachinist Wrote:  Lifestyle becomes more important the older you get.A dope lifestyle+a bevy of chix=True Player Status.

There's actually plenty of men on this forum who have that.

I have a feeling that most of the top guys on here are No. 2s

Post: #14

I can vouch for the #2 guys. I got the car, the job, lived in the nicer places, relatively tall and not ugly ...but still was not getting the girls I want. Game should come first for anyone seeking anything other than 7s or girls ready to settle down. 8+s won't be lured by material/lifestyle attributes unless you are killing it (super attractive or super rich). The only time this rule changes is if you are the big fish in a small pond. Medium fishes in big ponds must have game to succeed.

Post: #15

I did say you do need a certain amount of game regardless of how much money and toys you have. Let me put it this way: if you were a photographer, the money and stuff would be your camera. If you had the best camera and didn't know how to use it, it wouldn't matter. Game would be the skill you learn about how to take a good photograph. Without the skill the camera does not matter but to be a top photographer you need to have both good skills and a good camera!

You can get top shelf girls without having money etc. but you had better have a damn good excuse and good game. For example, when I was younger I was able to do exactly that but as I got older more was expected of me. Telling a girl lets go bang in my car, while it may seem romantic at 20, wasn't as much at 30.

Post: #16

I don't really know how to respond to this thread because I had a mentor growing up who had me cold approaching and teasing girls in different cities by the time I was 15. (Shout out to my favorite Romanian tennis coach)

But the amount of work you put into anything has a direct relationship to the quality of the product yielded. Yes when I've had free time in school/work I've put in hundreds of approaches and gone out night after night. Did my lay count increase? Absolutely. Did my "game" get better? Not really, I just became better at telling within a few minutes, seconds(and sometimes even pre-approach) whether the girl was interested, or was DTF that night.

Interestingly enough, the times where I've focused more on improving myself and my career, QUALITY pussy seemed to find its way to me. I can't explain it. The times where I've least expected it, where I'm often focused on other things, an 8 or even 9 seemingly on que, will appear to distract me. The key is making it a habit to make the most of these interactions when you're put in the opportunity to have them. Everything in life is fleeting, so pushing yourself even when you don't feel in the mood these times is what separates the talented from the mediocre.

Which brings me to my point. Mediocrity is my worst fear. Girls can smell it on you. Its not the foreign car, highrise view, expensive clothes that really attract the highest quality pussy (in Miami, LA, NYC it sometimes will be necessary), its the ambition. All of the most beautiful woman I have been with have all praised piece of mind, intelligence, and ambition above anything else I possessed.

This is the highest echelon of game. Striving to be the most attractive individual you can possibly be, and putting that above all other things. This includes traveling, becoming very adept at a sport, learning an instrument, speaking multiple languages, having entertaining stories, being successful at your career. etc. etc. etc. When you actually LIVE this lifestyle, "game" becomes elementary. Open with ease BECAUSE its easy. Converse with charisma BECAUSE your charismatic. Tell entertaining stories BECAUSE you have lived those experiences. Bounce to check out the view BECAUSE you have one. Play a few songs on guitar BECAUSE you play all the time and its no big deal.

And finally, FUCK her BECAUSE you can.

PS- Nomad77 check out the pic I just fwd you.

Post: #17

(11-28-2012 03:12 PM)rationalize_this Wrote:  Interestingly enough, the times where I've focused more on improving myself and my career, QUALITY pussy seemed to find its way to me. I can't explain it. The times where I've least expected it, where I'm often focused on other things, an 8 or even 9 seemingly on que, will appear to distract me.

You were very lucky to have your tennis coach teaching you not only about tennis but also about women. Most of us, never get this kind of opportunity.

It's very easy for any of thus to tell how much anything influences our success with women: just remove or add it for a month or some period. If you want to know how much of an impact your car has switch it with a friend Honda or do the opposite and rent a nice car for one month. Same goes for your pad, clothes, whatever. Even your job, tell them you work in sales for example or tell them you work for facebook.

Women will never tell you what really is important to them because they themselves don't even know what they are really attracted to. They also don't want to come across as materialistic. But in the end what it does come down to is that women trade sex for the "possibility" of a relationship first, love and affection second. So if you can present them with the possibility of their dream relationship those panties will be hitting the floor in no time and that's what the No. 2s do without even realizing it.

Post: #18

Im in it to win it at this point.Im personally working to achieve the total package.Ballin' azz lifestyle+game=ENDLESS POSSIBILITIES.

Post: #19

Interesting thread Nomad.

(11-27-2012 11:02 PM)Samseau Wrote:  First you gotta learn how to game, then you can build a lifestyle around it. People who do it the other way around usually wind up successful betas.

I agree with Samseau in that transitioning from #1 to #2 would be the recommended path. Learning to game is an investment, regardless of age. It enables you to directly control the quality of women you CHOOSE to have in your life. You know how to attract the right women, which one's are suitable for LTR's or which one's you throw to the curb.

Lifestyle by itself may attract, but not regulate the flow of quality pussy. Without solid game, any manipulative women can trump a man's 'awesome lifestyle', as she is the one in control.

As others have mentioned, the benefits of learning solid game are far-reaching. I'd recommend ruthless cold approaching to any newbie, over working 60hrs a week in suit.

Post: #20

I'm not sure if there is an order of operations for how to go about things. In my history I did a beta oops baby marriage, then stumbled through years of flings and LTRs and dry spells, then had some decent LTRs where I had respectable hand, then finally focused on dating and had MLTRs for a few years. For a few years while being the most active in dating I let my secretary handle most of the business, which left me semi-retired. Semi retired, broke, and busy with girls.

The MLTRs taught me the most about women. There wasn't much of an online community back then, although I think some guys were active on usenet. But if you are actively dating a lot of girls for a long time, the game stuff is just putting into words what you are already practicing. It's nice to have the concepts down, but they wind up being descriptive of your process more than prescriptive of what to do. Like I imagine you could learn to play the guitar without even knowing what keys and notes and chords you are playing - all practice and no theory.

After periods of MLTRs I drifted into serial LTRs, with the occasional MLTRs period thrown in. These periods allowed for more focus on business. When a woman is cooking and cleaning and fucking you on demand, you don't even have to go out shopping if you don't want to. You can get things done.

LTRs teach a surprising amount about women, by the way. They don't teach about approach - which this community seems to focus mostly on - but they do teach much about raising and maintaining strong passionate attraction. I guess a lot of guys can't be bothered with that, but for me it's endlessly fascinating and fun.

So that's one way to order things. Be a beta shlub who gets beaten up by life for a while, then transition to learning to play the game, then have some LTR girls attend to you while you focus on building up your empire.

I could imagine doing things in any other order. But for me each of those stages was important. I doubt I'd be as good at LTR as I am now without having done a few years plus in MLTRs.

But I'm a firm believer - and I've said this before - that for men attraction is about the long game. We have a lot of time in order to make ourselves attractive, and I'm sorry young dudes, but the long game is not just about looks and fitness and charisma and a suave je ne sais quoi. It's also about wealth.

Post: #21

(11-28-2012 12:12 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  I did say you do need a certain amount of game regardless of how much money and toys you have. Let me put it this way: if you were a photographer, the money and stuff would be your camera. If you had the best camera and didn't know how to use it, it wouldn't matter. Game would be the skill you learn about how to take a good photograph. Without the skill the camera does not matter but to be a top photographer you need to have both good skills and a good camera!
You can get top shelf girls without having money etc. but you had better have a damn good excuse and good game. For example, when I was younger I was able to do exactly that but as I got older more was expected of me. Telling a girl lets go bang in my car, while it may seem romantic at 20, wasn't as much at 30.

IDK I agree with your point about the camera. IME the more skilled people can make top quality work out of the weakest equipment/situation because they have the skill to make lesser things irrelevant.

Also, are you in your 30s? because your point about banging in the car is completely different that my xeperiences, which makes me think you are speculating rather than speaking from experience.

Post: #22

(11-28-2012 03:39 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Women will never tell you what really is important to them because they themselves don't even know what they are really attracted to. They also don't want to come across as materialistic. But in the end what it does come down to is that women trade sex for the "possibility" of a relationship first, love and affection second. So if you can present them with the possibility of their dream relationship those panties will be hitting the floor in no time and that's what the No. 2s do without even realizing it.

Sure they will, just not with words.

Post: #23

@snoop

1. The point of this post is what does it take to be a top player, not an acceptable one. When your skills are equal in a competition with someone else then the equipment becomes a critical factor. Doesn't matter how good a photographer you are if you photographing a sporting event and can't lock focus all of your beautifully composed shots won't be worth much. (And yes, I am a photographer.)

2. I am always speaking from experience but times and expectations change. Between 15 - 25 I banged quite a few girls in my car. I had to, I couldn't afford anything else. I actually banged girls in my VW Bug, which was my first car, and that was a real tight fit. I like banging girls in cars

3. The only thing you need to listen to from a woman or anyone for that matters, is their actions. What a woman/person does is all that matters in the end.

Post: #24

(11-28-2012 07:31 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  @snoop

1. The point of this post is what does it take to be a top player, not an acceptable one. When your skills are equal in a competition with someone else then the equipment becomes a critical factor. Doesn't matter how good a photographer you are if you photographing a sporting event and can't lock focus all of your beautifully composed shots won't be worth much. (And yes, I am a photographer.)

Obviously the level of equipment plays some role, but the more skill you have the less it matters as long as the disparity isn't too huge.

make kobe play in some off brand $20 basketball shoes and he is still a top basketball player. make him play in wooden clogs from holland and probably not so much though.

Post: #25

Basketball shoes is not a good analogy because they are not critical to the success of a player. Having an apartment outside of the city or living with your parents on the other hand can make a significant difference in your closure rate.

With that said, of course, the better game you have the better chance you have. But that goes for everything, the better apartment, car, etc.