Post: #1

Hello,

as the title is saying I'm a german and looking for advice to game german girls.
Since I'm basically a Newbie to this scene I did post to the related Sub-Fourm, and not in the Travel forum, and I did open an extra thread for this topic because the advice given in all the threads might not apply to german girls, as they're probably quite different to deal with. (yes I did read through the (very few) germany threads/posts on this site, but those didn't really break it down to me)
The help I need on german girls, is basically I don't even know how to open them and dealing with the huge amount of flakiness. I don't know if it's just me, but they all have this ice princesses syndrom with the deadly facial expression and show zero emotion. It makes it very hard for me from the beginning to get even near to her. They display zero sexuality, it seems to me like they'd be asexual, not interested into something dirty as what is called a man at all. When I get to talk to them , they seem so immensly boring, unreachable and not fun to talk with at all.
I want to add that the rejection can be very harsh here which makes it even harder for me. Once I approached some girls that were standing in line for a club and asked them if I can stand with them in the line and they just outright screamed at me "NO, FUCK OFF" .
I feel like I've done something wrong, a crime, when talking to girls I don't know, I know this is bullshit but it's rammed into my head by the german society.
Now the flakiness I mentioned is, that seriously I think you rather get an appointment with a doctor than to grab a coffee with a girl here. There's absolutely no chance to meet a girl on the same day here. Atleast 5 a few days in forward (the chance that she'll say that she has time is low anyway). And even then my experiences are that atleast half of the time, they flake , sometimes even they just don't show up and don't pick up their phone if you try to reach them. You feel like a fool, while she just let's the guys run behind her and feeds herself the validation she gets. This is often the case in clubs, when they suddenly just dissappear and leave you alone, without even mentioning a word.
I don't know, sometimes it seems to me that the connection inbetween the male and female population here is almost non-existant, only occuring at work.

I don't even want to begin with daygaming, which I as a german think will creep out every girl here at the point where you try to get her #, because they can't deal with it and don't know how flirting works at all.
But maybe I'm wrong with all this? Maybe I'm just blended by living here all my life? It would be awesome if someone , especially a german, could break things down for me and give me a piece of advice on how to handle german girls in germany(!) and finally have atleast a little success.
Foreigners intake on german girls of course also welcome.

Atleast my take on german girls is:
-insane flakiness
-cold, emotionless,rude, seem asexual
-very very unspontanous in any kind of form
-boring to talk with, hard to hold a conversation
+ independent (no need to pay her anything)
+ less emotional "bullshit" to handle

Info about me: 21 yo 180cm , my looks are not a problem, I go to the gym and my face is ok . Not clingy, smile alot, spontanous, respecting people, never agressive, like to be cocky to girls and likes when girls answer is also cheeky but funny.

Post: #2

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLU...ature=plcp

Post: #3

(11-01-2012 12:00 PM)tonehammer2009 Wrote:  http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLU...ature=plcp

I've seen that guy, I don't like him, I think his approaches aren't doing that good either.
He comes off kinda douchey and insecure generally.
He always comes up with the same stuff, trying to show the girl a magic trick at the end. Also he doesn't close. I don't see him getting # besides that one russian chick from moscow which doesn't count as german.
His videos aren't rated that good either too, but badly.

Post: #4

I agree, I just thought you were a total newbie : )
Point is, even that guy can have a conversation with girls in the streets of Berlin.
So why wouldn't you allow yourself to "even begin with daygame" ?
Also, by his positive attitude you can tell he has the potential for massive improvement in just a few years.
Positivity is key.
Girls are harmless.
Make this a better world, go talk to a girl : )

By the way, if you know of good german daygame youtube links, could you please share, that'd be cool.

Post: #5

Yes maybe you're right with that.
Spot on, positivness is the most important thing.
I talk alot to girls, it's not directly the problem. Approaching more is, because it is something non-existant in Germany.
But my main concerns still is the behaviour and actings of the german girls themselves.
It's like they keep sliding out of my fingers because of weird reasons, and I need to adjust myself to this, but I don't know how.

I looked up further for some german PUA videos, nothing particular there.
Only video which was already posted in this forum is that guy approaching and daygaming loads of women in hamburg. He gets rejected 99% of the time though.

Post: #6

German women are harsh... They are emancipated in a way quite different from Anglo girls. Some are outright reasonable, some have a hamster colony. Germans are generally not keen on being approached by strangers. Your best bet is to play "foreigner" and ask for help while shopping or doing everyday things. This justifies the initial approach and makes you interesting to them on top of that.

Post: #7

I'm moving in the same environment as you and I think it's pretty hard here, too. I'm going by bus, train and subway everyday and have some time to watch the women in our country. Most of the time they react like you don't exist, there could be a George Clooney walking in and they won't give a fuck. I have a random girl smiling at me once a month or so, most of the time it's bitchshielding.

In my oppinion it's all about social circles in Germany. I don't know one person closer who slept with a girl who was not in a social circle of that person. It's really about germans in general. A mexican student who was a friend of mine told me once how supprised she was that the people are so cold blooded here.

So I would be interested in some advice also.

Post: #8

meet girls online or,if you just want short term, pretend to be a foreigner needing help with something. pick a respected, interesting country that matches your looks

Post: #9

(11-01-2012 02:15 PM)Bad-Habit Wrote:  I'm moving in the same environment as you and I think it's pretty hard here, too. I'm going by bus, train and subway everyday and have some time to watch the women in our country. Most of the time they react like you don't exist, there could be a George Clooney walking in and they won't give a fuck. I have a random girl smiling at me once a month or so, most of the time it's bitchshielding.

In my oppinion it's all about social circles in Germany. I don't know one person closer who slept with a girl who was not in a social circle of that person. It's really about germans in general. A mexican student who was a friend of mine told me once how supprised she was that the people are so cold blooded here.

So I would be interested in some advice also.

Exactly. I feel you man. I feel every letter of the post you've written.

(11-01-2012 02:16 PM)Asaxon Wrote:  meet girls online or,if you just want short term, pretend to be a foreigner needing help with something. pick a respected, interesting country that matches your looks

Online isn't going to work well in germany. Online dating sites don't work at all here if you're looking for atleast a BIT of quality. No girl who thinks she's something worth will be on a online dating site. And when she is, oh be sure she gets so many messages a day, she won't even look at what you've written.
Only facebook may work, but only if she has seen you already in reallife . It's like you know her, she knows you but you avoid to approach her in RL, instead you do it online. It can be good because it would prevent awkward approaching which isn't always appropiate or possible in germany on a average day.

The stuff you wrote about pretending to be a foreigner. It could be a good idea, but in that case I'd start to fake myself and be something that I'm 100% not. It's a bit too desperate already to pull something off like that. I mean , sure somebody will do this, but I'm not that kinda guy and this won't make me better in my game.

Post: #10

Quote: It could be a good idea, but in that case I'd start to fake myself and be something that I'm 100% not.

Agree with you. I also noticed german women are way more open to foreigners but it's too much work you have to put into this.

Post: #11

this could also be a case of you being German. aka stop acting German, and only seeing Germans from the German standpoint.

yes a lot of Germans are kinda awkward and not open to conversation. but keep plowing though.
i don't know what it was, but i could tell the look between a girl that was actually uninterested vs one that was acting like.

again.maybe it's because I'm a foreigner.

but i feel like Germans open up..if you make the the initiative and or lead the conversation.
they don't seem to jump into small talk on their own..unless drunk.

day game, night game..just keep talking and make it interesting.

the problem i saw in lots of my German friends(in Germany) game is that they are so use to the culture of no small talk and keeping you yourself that they don't understand there is a different way.

at the same time when they are in America they lose out often becausethey don't understand why people are so friendly and open.


also. i found online game to work pretty well.
have a good picture.send lots of messages.
i had to talk much longer to get numbersthough. girls don't go for meet ups as fast. a week of messaging might be needed.
which is why you need to be talking to multiple girls at once.
most of my online game came off of badoo.
there's all kinds of advice on that site from here.

some also came off of finya.de

don't discount okc either. more chicks speak English.and have a different attitude.

if you're a CS'er you can host chicks.

bottom line. i tell everyone this
quit acting "German"
if you know what i mean

Post: #12

German chicks are rule based (like all Germans). Just they act on the unwritten rules. Those rules come from the collective unconsciousness. Some of those rules are:
-A strange guy that comes to talk to me is a player creep.
-Getting along with a guy is only possible if my social circle approves.
-I may not behave feminine. I must be strong, manly and cool.
-Being "cute" is slutty.
-It's approved to have sex with latin lovers and blacks.

It's all social programming on the girl's her side. Some rules that you can use:
-it's ok to have sex with a guy "for drugs".
-it's ok to have sex with a guy on holiday.
-it's ok to make out if the guy is a good dancer.

Basically it's ASD (anti slut defence) that is your biggest problem (mine too). Their hamster still work but they are locked up. Germans dont have a "hookup" culture like in the anglosphere. The only dudes that succeed are those that master how to play their social circles.

Post: #13

i failed to mention.

in my opinion, if you're going for bangs and have great logistics. club game works.

while it was much harder to take women home home from bars and clubs that i met that night.
i didn't find Germans having the mentality that girls in a group must stay in the group, to be as strong.



if you're a bar club person. work on that style of game.
you'll be surprised how many girls are itching to get railed..but no one has the balls to come up and talk to them

Post: #14

Some literature tips:

Absolute basics, the book every German PUA has read and recommends:
Lob des Sexismus

Quite good also:
Der perfekte Eroberer

Also, join this forum:
pickupforum

There you´ll find everything you could possibly need to become successful with German girls and beyond. It helped me alot when I was starting out. There´s a sub-forum for every Bundesland (also for Austria and Switzerland), see if there is a lair next to you and attend. You´ll meet a whole bunch of like minded guys, find some wings and, most important, some advanced dudes who´ll kick your lazy ass to actually approach. There are 1,283,778 posts all about game and methods specifically in and for Germany, the beginners section is full of great guides which explain the game from 0 to advanced level, you´ll find countless "case studies", datasheets for German cities, field reports, etc. Take a month to read through the forum, you will benefit immensely. Yes, day game works even in Germany, and most girls are open to it. Most of them are pleasantly surprised, you just have to overcome our cultural programming and do it.

Oh, I forgot, in case you considered it, don´t buy any workshops, completely unnecessary. Almost all guys who now offer incredibly expensive pick up workshops in Germany started their "career" as newbies in that forum. For example the authors of the books I recommended also wrote there, the second one even had a blog which described his transformation from beta to player over a few years. After that he decided to become a professional PUA, wrote this book, even got invited to some television shows to present his (for mainstream society) controversial book and the game in general, and is now arguably one of the most famous PUAs in Germany.

Now, while they might not be active in the forum anymore, their posts remain. For free. So skip the workshop industry, save your money and get started.

Post: #15

Actually German girls are quite approachable although you need to keep a certain level of energy though not as high as with English girls.German girls always hook up with guys of the same age.They also like to talk about everything they have no taboos.The borders between male and female conversations are quite obscured in Germany in the sense that girls do not exaggerate in chick talk and try to talk seriously like guys.So there is too much rationalization and too little emotion.In my opinion one must provide a logical reason to a German girl to fuck him.
They also do not like superficial conversations and prefer depth.The Germanics generally are fast thinkers and have high IQs.German women mostly have natural manners they lack the elegancy of French or the style of Italian women.However they are not rude like slavic women can be.(who also have natural manners).It is what we call the barbarian free style.(individuality).
Everyone proclaims his individual features and the others have to respect that.So they show if they are Goths,lesbians etc.

Atmosphere in Germany is harsh due to strict social control.This tones everyone down as a huge hand and makes him feel unimportant.In case of inmportance exclamation the society reacts with punishment.In this environment it is difficult for the individual to shine and Turks for example get crazy.It is impossible to crash the German environment power and appear important to the girls so you have to do so either by hooking with slavic girls who are in abundace in Germany or develop dominant style which takes the challenges in face value.Germans do not value weak people physically or mentally or morally,they value strength and pure force.

Post: #16

When I backpacked through Europe in the 90s my SNLs all came from England (London and Newcastle), Amsterdam, and Germany (Munich). Didn't have any luck in France or Italy, which bummed me out because those were the girls I found the most attractive. Didn't really know much about game at the time of course except for trying to go with what came naturally. I knew not to be a pussy, at least.

Anyway I was at the Hofbrauhaus in Munich with my buddy and we got a pretty early start. Met a lot of different people, there were actually a lot of Germans there mixed in with the tourists. We were of course drinking those giant beers like crazy and at one point I met a cute German girl (HB 7.5). I was 20 and she was around late 20s. She was showing a lot of interest and wanted me to bounce to get a drink with her, but it was only around 8pm, so I let her go. Didn't get any digits, it was a different world back then without cell phones.

Not long after that my buddy realizes he's too drunk already and decides he's going back to the hotel to crash (lame). I of course stay behind by myself, have another drink and keep talking to people. After a while I decided to check out some of the other nearby bars. Who do I see in one of the bars I go to, but the same German girl sitting by herself. Go up and talk to her and she is very happy to see me. Buys me drinks the rest of the night, then we head out of the bar together and it starts raining. Start making out with her in the rain and we head back to her apartment, where she proceeds to give me even more drinks. Fortunately I wasnt too drunk to smash, she was a lot of fun. Smashed again the next morning, she made me breakfast and then showed me around the Japanese garden by her place, and I was on my way.

I think she was gaming me, maybe that's one of the secrets is to let them think they are in control. Of course I was an American, don't know how much of a factor that was.

Post: #17

@ Sourcecode

yes, you're right, my implanted germanism sure takes in a good part of why things don't work like I'd like them to. Means being less culturally bounded by the german society and try to go my own way. It's not easy though.
You might have gotten lucky with online gaming because you're foreign, so that instantly sets you apart from all the germans. Especially on badoo, which is aimed at an international crowd as much as I know?
I'm sure that did add alot of "interest" into your person. Idk, are you white or black? If the latter I'm sure that it also added alot of positive points on the particular black loving crowd here in germany.
I'm signed up on CS but the quality is very very low, and since the last weeks alot of people left because of change of terms of use. Now they can use all your information you put up there for advertising.
Well I'm not against online dating , but my experiences are not that good with it.

Now the club game you mention. My logistics are good and bad at the same time. Good because I live in a big city , nearly central. Bad because I still live at my parents home due to being a student and rents are too high here (22yo). Banging a chick at my place is impossible.
I know this will lower my chances even more, but nonetheless I won't give up because of this .

@ Marcellus
The points you made , I agree on all of them. You pointed it out very good. It's funny though , the ASD you mention , they're not putting up the ASD because of themselves, but because of social norms and their enviroment. So , even if a girl obviously likes you, she still won't show it and will disregard you.


@Celtic_Austrian

Thanks mate, I'll definetly look into it. The forum is a very good start since it is with germans. I mean, I already browsed here quite alot, still like said, it's different being a foreigner here or a german, because most related posts here on roosh are foreigners gaming german women , whereas a german gaming german women is , I think so atleast, a different matter, which needs a really different approach.
Yea, I never liked the idea of workshops, because in the end of the day it's you yourself who needs to grab the balls, and not some other guy lol.

@ greek kamaki
Were you in germany or do you talk about german girls in greece?
In the latter case, german girls tend to totally slut out on holidays, when they're leaving their natural enviroment being allowed to do so, and make up for all that bitch shielding they do all the year and compensate all the "putting out" into the few days of their holiday.
I personally asked several german girls about this matter , the answer is always the same " why? well.. I don't know.. it's just because it's holidays"

Talk about everything? Do you mean Intellectual stuff where girls from other countries get directly bored, like politics or even cars? Then yes I agree. But about personal, sexual or erotical stuff.. my experiences in this cases to this day aren't that positive. They get kind of creeped out and shut in. It's like you're invading their "german rule of respecting everyones intimacy and personal space" .

Like you said, it's hard to break the social enviroment here. Playing the dominant style won't get you that far IMHO , you'll quickly get stamped off as what is called a "Macho" or you will get challenged by them because they do not accept getting commanded on, simply "because".

@ burnfist
You were very very lucky. A german women in Munich (!!) inviting you, a stranger, a foreigner, to HER (!!) place on the first day(!!) to fuck.
And all this without any much of a effort.
The cooking part made it even more hilarious which sounds to me already nearly like a fairy tale.
You probably look quite look.

Post: #18

I dont think that German girls are overly hard or complicated to talk to. Just be the funny, witty and a little cocky guy and youll see results. Basically, just read Bang and apply Roosh's tactics.

Post: #19

@greek: I just LOVE your metaphor about the big german hand. It's indeed a power that tones down the "sexual vibe". I think the turcs are the REAL problem for the decline of german pussy.

@burnfirst: those were the nineties.... the ages of clubbing. ONS were still normal then. Things have changed.

@boiboi: german chicks demands to be entertained.

Imho it's pretty impossible to get 2 fuck germans in germany without engaging in a ltr with her. This way it's approved by her social circle, but... you need to be able to provide a lifestyle for her and you must already fit in the social cirlce.

Post: #20

(11-03-2012 10:05 AM)BoiBoi Wrote:  I dont think that German girls are overly hard or complicated to talk to. Just be the funny, witty and a little cocky guy and youll see results. Basically, just read Bang and apply Roosh's tactics.

^^^^This. Basically U.S Game, toned-down a notch.

(11-03-2012 10:49 AM)Marcellus Wrote:  Imho it's pretty impossible to get 2 fuck germans in germany without engaging in a ltr with her. This way it's approved by her social circle, but... you need to be able to provide a lifestyle for her and you must already fit in the social cirlce.

Wrong.

Post: #21

(11-03-2012 09:26 AM)Branimir Wrote:  @ Sourcecode

yes, you're right, my implanted germanism sure takes in a good part of why things don't work like I'd like them to. Means being less culturally .

@ greek kamaki
Were you in germany or do you talk about german girls in greece?
In the latter case, german girls tend to totally slut out on holidays, when they're leaving their natural enviroment being allowed to do so, and make up for all that bitch shielding they do all the year and compensate all the "putting out" into the few days of their holiday.
I personally asked several german girls about this matter , the answer is always the same " why? well.. I don't know.. it's just because it's holidays"

Talk about everything? Do you mean Intellectual stuff where girls from other countries get directly bored, like politics or even cars? Then yes I agree. But about personal, sexual or erotical stuff.. my experiences in this cases to this day aren't that positive. They get kind of creeped out and shut in. It's like you're invading their "german rule of respecting everyones intimacy and personal space" .

Like you said, it's hard to break the social enviroment here. Playing the dominant style won't get you that far IMHO , you'll quickly get stamped off as what is called a "Macho" or you will get challenged by them because they do not accept getting commanded on, simply "because".

German girls in Germany behave the same way as in Greece,Italy or Bulgaria.In Germany you just get mass numbers of them while in some cases you have to search in other locations(resorts) in case you target this group specifically.
The downside in Germany is that clubs cater only for people of certain age and look if you do not belong to that group you are not allowed to enter.(for example an older guy is likely to be refused entrance in a club purposed for youth).
Generally flirting with German girls does not have the same feeling as flirting with girls from other nationalities.They are also more likely to freeze out at some point.

Post: #22

(11-03-2012 05:24 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  German girls in Germany behave the same way as in Greece,Italy or Bulgaria.

I respect your opinion of course, but my view is different in that case.
Like said I believe that there's a very big difference inbetween german girls outside of germany and german girls in germany.
But if you have other experiences , I accept that.

Post: #23

From my observations there are big differences among German girls from different regions.As a general rule Eastern German girls are more friendly although worse looking on average(beautiful ones have emigrated?).Northern German girls(Hamburg,Bremen) are top looking with Nordic looks and liberal but also very protestant similar to Dutch style(some guys prefer that).Southern German girls(Bavarian) are more similar to Austrian girls(central European style some other guys prefer that).In Berlin they have Prussian mentality and in Saxony they are very friendly.(due to communism,former egalitarian status?)

I think in general if a guy is good looking he will have good success in Northern Germany while if he is loaded he will kill it in southern Germany.Of course all these are generalizations.
German women are very spoiled by the high IQ of German men and expect foreign men to present the same IQ,education,depth etc which is often not the case.This is the way the German society freezes the foreigners off they just refuse to lower their levels,standards etc.

Post: #24

(11-01-2012 12:18 PM)Branimir Wrote:  

(11-01-2012 12:00 PM)tonehammer2009 Wrote:  http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLU...ature=plcp

I've seen that guy, I don't like him, I think his approaches aren't doing that good either.
He comes off kinda douchey and insecure generally.
He always comes up with the same stuff, trying to show the girl a magic trick at the end. Also he doesn't close. I don't see him getting # besides that one russian chick from moscow which doesn't count as german.
His videos aren't rated that good either too, but badly.

Dude, I saw that bastard at a bar!

Post: #25

I understand your feeling.

I'm in Dusseldorf now, not only is the weather crappy, but girls are also "crappy", even though they are good looking they are just... super reserved/shy/noncommunicative. A true emotional wall.
I lived before in Sweden and i got looks in the transports, but here? Nein, no way, nothing, zero!

I moved recently into a new apartment and decided to cook for the girl here (she brought a friend). So I cooked in silence, dined in almost silence with me trying to break the ice asking if it was good and if they were saying that to be polite, stuff like that. After dinner we talked a bit more, one of the girls talking to the iPhone, the other, curled up in a ball, I could only see her eyes, and would just nod. Very complicated to interact, actually there is no interaction. A fish is more interactive! There was just a bit about music, but that was it.

Also humor is complicated, and if I can make swedish girls laugh, one would say that it shouldn't be much more complicated for german. It is.

I was speaking english all the time, and they could also speak it well.
I heard that there is a certain racism/dislike towards turkish people. I'm not turkish, but i I could easily pass as one.

PS: If you're in Dusseldorf, send me a pm!