Post: #26

How about those mobsters with bitchy Italian wives at home were they beta? I'll tell you if I wrote some shit about my dad on the internet like that he would rip my hair out of my head and beat my ass, trash my car and throw me out yet my mom controlled what we ate for dinner. Was he beta?

I try to stay out of all this beta-alpha crap here but some of you are pushing it too far. My uncles lived at home until they got married because they have European traditions does that make them beta? WTF?

Post: #27

(10-26-2012 11:54 AM)kdolo Wrote:  again you are talking apples and oranges.........

so, because your parents took care of you, they are beyond analysis and criticism ????.....

so, because you make money, you are beyond criticism and analysis ......??? what narcissism -is your ego that sensitive ....... let me guess: you're a boomer...

as i said, to be married and have a family is essentially to be beta: one must go into 'provider' mode - like your dad and all/most dads - you become provider - beta provider. That's the point and dynamic of marriage.

No, not a boomer. Just a guy who relies on himself.

According to your definition, El Mech is a beta because he takes care of his kid. A provider...

Sorry Mech, I wanted to come down and hang with you in Florida but I just found out your a beta provider.

Post: #28

(10-26-2012 11:56 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  How about those mobsters with bitchy Italian wives at home were they beta? I'll tell you if I wrote some shit about my dad on the internet like that he would rip my hair out of my head and beat my ass, trash my car and throw me out yet my mom controlled what we ate for dinner. Was he beta?

I try to stay out of all this beta-alpha crap here but some of you are pushing it too far. My uncles lived at home until they got married because they have European traditions does that make them beta? WTF?

I don't get it either.

Post: #29

(10-26-2012 11:56 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  How about those mobsters with bitchy Italian wives at home were they beta? I'll tell you if I wrote some shit about my dad on the internet like that he would rip my hair out of my head and beat my ass, trash my car and throw me out yet my mom controlled what we ate for dinner. Was he beta?

I try to stay out of all this beta-alpha crap here but some of you are pushing it too far. My uncles lived at home until they got married because they have European traditions does that make them beta? WTF?

'How about those mobsters with bitchy Italian wives at home were they beta?'

Yes. When it comes to the domestic sphere - most men are beta.

mobsters, presidents, dictators, titans of business, generals, Caesars, kings, etc...........

When it comes to wifey ........ the biggest, toughest, most powerful alpha dudes have to yield -- I know many guys like this.......

Alpha to world. Beta at home. - its quite typical actually .....

Post: #30

(10-26-2012 12:02 PM)kdolo Wrote:  

(10-26-2012 11:56 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  How about those mobsters with bitchy Italian wives at home were they beta? I'll tell you if I wrote some shit about my dad on the internet like that he would rip my hair out of my head and beat my ass, trash my car and throw me out yet my mom controlled what we ate for dinner. Was he beta?

I try to stay out of all this beta-alpha crap here but some of you are pushing it too far. My uncles lived at home until they got married because they have European traditions does that make them beta? WTF?

'How about those mobsters with bitchy Italian wives at home were they beta?'

Yes. When it comes to the domestic sphere - most men are beta.

mobsters, presidents, dictators, titans of business, generals, Caesars, kings, etc...........

When it comes to wifey ........ the biggest, toughest, most powerful alpha dudes have to yield -- I know many guys like this.......

Alpha to world. Beta at home. - its quite typical actually .....

So you would explain this to these beta males in person? Do you think the OP should have some sit down time with Dad and explain to him where he went wrong and maybe turn him on to the forum so he can be alpha?

Post: #31

This whole Alpha beta stuff...

Post: #32

90% of internet alphas post from their mom's basement.

Post: #33

(10-26-2012 12:00 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(10-26-2012 11:54 AM)kdolo Wrote:  again you are talking apples and oranges.........

so, because your parents took care of you, they are beyond analysis and criticism ????.....

so, because you make money, you are beyond criticism and analysis ......??? what narcissism -is your ego that sensitive ....... let me guess: you're a boomer...

as i said, to be married and have a family is essentially to be beta: one must go into 'provider' mode - like your dad and all/most dads - you become provider - beta provider. That's the point and dynamic of marriage.

No, not a boomer. Just a guy who relies on himself.

According to your definition, El Mech is a beta because he takes care of his kid. A provider...

Sorry Mech, I wanted to come down and hang with you in Florida but I just found out your a beta provider.

I'm actually shocked that the young dudes here think that compared to other generations they're alpha. And what's the beef with the Boomers? Are they beta now too? Did you have to grow up watching Barney on a computer monitor to be Alpha?

Post: #34

Let your dad live life on his own terms, Man, and live yours on yours. If you really think of your parents as "retards," I'd get out of there asap and start thinking of ways you can connect with them. There have to be some things about them you do respect, and it'll be a lot easier to appreciate those things if you aren't living in the same space.

They won't be here forever.

EDIT: I also noticed you can't wait until your parents move out of the country...Ouch. What are you going to do when you're down on your luck and need a place to stay then?

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #35

(10-26-2012 12:19 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  I'm actually shocked that the young dudes here think that compared to other generations they're alpha. And what's the beef with the Boomers? Are they beta now too? Did you have to grow up watching Barney on a computer monitor to be Alpha?

Good question about the baby boomers. Maybe someone can answer.

I am the same generation as you. I am pretty glad I grew up in our generation compared to what I see now.

Post: #36

(10-26-2012 12:02 PM)kdolo Wrote:  'How about those mobsters with bitchy Italian wives at home were they beta?'

Yes. When it comes to the domestic sphere - most men are beta.

mobsters, presidents, dictators, titans of business, generals, Caesars, kings, etc...........

When it comes to wifey ........ the biggest, toughest, most powerful alpha dudes have to yield -- I know many guys like this.......

Alpha to world. Beta at home. - its quite typical actually .....

Ummm. That is how it is supposed to be buddy. Do you think my dad wanted to run a mason biz, a retail store, a church, then come home and worry about what was for dinner? No. We took his boots off so he could relax with a beer and yell at the news. Mom's job was to handle the tasks at home. Cooking cleaning, bookkeeping, dressing us. You can't be "Alpha" every second of the day. Guys that do have failed marriages. Then become miserable. Relationships are a partnership, not a one-sided dictatorship.

Or are you saying it's alpha to let your wife sit while you cook dinner after you work all day? Ohhhhhhhhhhh. In that case I've been wrong all these years.

Post: #37

I feel like all you older cats are coming down on the young guys way too hard.

My dad was as stone cold Alpha as they come. Shit my mom had to talk him into getting married. She fell in love with him because he was a man and made her be a woman. She was at all his sporting events cheering him on. She followed him around and loved him for it.

But over the years he softened up and tried to be a "good" husband, and thus lost his mojo. Now he has to check in with my mom before he does anything. To make my mom happy, he has to sit there and watch reality TV all evening with her and bring her any food she wants. He has to ask to go golfing.

Me? I came back from college and noticed the Beta tendencies. He wasnt being a bitch obviously, my dad is a badass dude. He just swallowed the Blue Pill and tried to do anything to make my mom happy. Did I ever come down on him hard? Hell no he is my father and gets the ultimate respect.

Instead my brother and I tried to break the game down and show him why their marriage was on the rocks because he stopped being ALPHA and started being BETA. It was no dissrespect, my dad is a huge dude who still can bench 405. In public he was so happy and dominant, but miserable in the house trying to be a "good" husband by obeying my mom and doing whatever she said. He was just trying to do what "the movies and TV shows" said a good husband does.

Basically, the matrix got him. They sucked him in. Me and my brother had to covertly drop red pill truths on my parents to fix the marriage.

All we did was show my mom how she should appreciate our dad for putting a roof over everyones head, providing for the family, and being a good man. THat is his job, to provide for the family, NOT to watch Desperate Housewives with her at night.

Then we also passed this message on to our Dad. "Mom just wants you to be a strong man and provide for the family. You dont have to give up all your hobbies and sit here all day watching TV with her. Start asking her to come golfing with you, have her go out with you to workout, bring her into YOUR world. She just wants to spend time with you, you dont have to do it watching TV all day."

I think the guys werent calling their dad's beta for providing for the family. And its not like the MOB bosses. some of our dads actually grovel and are scared to make their wives mad. Thats the part that is hard to watch. I look up to my dad, and when I see him nervous and scared of my moms attitudes, it hurts me to the core. He is a great man and he should be appreciated and respected in the house, not to be walking around on egg shells with his tail tucked between his legs trying to appease my mother.

I think thats what the guys are trying to say about their dad's being beta. Shit my mom doesnt even cook anymore. My dad has to work a full time job, cook dinner, and watch TV with her as she sits on the TV all day on her Ipad and complains if he doesnt bring her food home.

(PS my mom is an angel, but the TV shows she watches all day have her up on this pedestal where she thinks she deserves the world and shouldnt have to be feminine/submissive/do anything for my dad. I've been trying to drop hints and clues and she is listening and stepping her game up for dad.)

And also, you can live in your parents house and not be a little spoiled entitled bitch. I live at home because I like to save more money. I live at home because I like to travel and dont want to have a vacant apartment. I live at home because I enjoy my parents company and they enjoy mine. I live at home because I love my family. They put a roof over my head and I do all the stuff they dont want to do (finances, techology, research on projects, handy work, ect). We have a great set up here where everyone is winning. Why would i move out?

Post: #38

(10-27-2012 03:55 AM)Adam Michaels Wrote:  And also, you can live in your parents house and not be a little spoiled entitled bitch.

I don't think it's so much the living at home with parents that's inviting the criticism. It's more the adult living at home with parents who calls them retarded and can't wait until they leave the country, etc.

Teenagers act like that. Not grown men.

Case in point from another one of these "young" posters: "Hopefully they leave you the house when they move out of the country."

OP Responds: "That's the plan, actually. Just gotta be patient with my screaming harridan Ma and pussywhipped Pa.

The sooner the better, please Lord: Banana"

So he wants his father to move out of the country but also wants him to leave a house behind for his sake???? While criticizing him for being a beta???

If that's not an entitlement mentality, I'd like to know what is. As for the beta thing, It's simply ironic as hell to depend so heavily on your father yet consider him more beta than you.

I don't do "alpha/beta-speak" - the entire concept comes across as a mighty feminine thing to get hung up on, to be honest. But still...

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #39

I stand by what I wrote, except some of the insults towards my Dad. I wasn't exactly, err, sober when I posted the OP. That's not an excuse: I wrote exactly the way I was feeling that night, and now that I'm back to "normal" mode, I've calmed down.

I don't have kids, but I can only imagine how terrible it would feel to be called a "retard" by one of them. So for that I feel bad. but it's not like I curse out or hurl insults to my Dad's face; I'm honest with him most times, but I do it respectfully. And yes, calling your father a Tard in front of a group of strangers is rude, but it's a forum: the whole point of posting in one is that you're given more leeway to express yourself than most times in real life.

Call me a dick, or a spoiled brat, whatever: I agree with you to a certain extent. But the situation is much more complicated than any of you, or even myself, know: I ain't my Father nor am I my Mother.

Post: #40

(10-27-2012 01:06 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(10-27-2012 03:55 AM)Adam Michaels Wrote:  And also, you can live in your parents house and not be a little spoiled entitled bitch.

I don't think it's so much the living at home with parents that's inviting the criticism. It's more the adult living at home with parents who calls them retarded and can't wait until they leave the country, etc.

Teenagers act like that. Not grown men.

Case in point from another one of these "young" posters: "Hopefully they leave you the house when they move out of the country."

OP Responds: "That's the plan, actually. Just gotta be patient with my screaming harridan Ma and pussywhipped Pa.

The sooner the better, please Lord: Banana"

So he wants his father to move out of the country but also wants him to leave a house behind for his sake???? While criticizing him for being a beta???

If that's not an entitlement mentality, I'd like to know what is. As for the beta thing, It's simply ironic as hell to depend so heavily on your father yet consider him more beta than you.

I don't do "alpha/beta-speak" - the entire concept comes across as a mighty feminine thing to get hung up on, to be honest. But still...

Fathers throughout history, by and large, being beta providers is the biggest reason we've evolved. Why I'm alive. Why I have two parents (a great advantage these days) and why I have a place to live after getting let go from a good-paying gig.

You're right. There's a cold, callous side of me, that came out the night I wrote my OP like a beast, where, yes, I don't want to be bothered with my smothering, hyper-critical parents. I think that's natural. Did I take it too far with my language? Yes, but what's wrong with letting you Id express itself every once in a while?

Am I showing that I have an ungrateful, greedy and spoiled brat aspect to my personality? Absolutely. But that's not even a 10th of the whole picture. And I don't want to bore you all with my childhood and family history through the lens of Game Theory and Evo Psych. I'd post about it on my blog, if I had more time, but sadly, I'm focused on learning graphic/web design and getting back on the road to independence ASAP.

Post: #41

(10-27-2012 03:17 PM)megatron Wrote:  

(10-27-2012 01:06 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(10-27-2012 03:55 AM)Adam Michaels Wrote:  And also, you can live in your parents house and not be a little spoiled entitled bitch.

I don't think it's so much the living at home with parents that's inviting the criticism. It's more the adult living at home with parents who calls them retarded and can't wait until they leave the country, etc.

Teenagers act like that. Not grown men.

Case in point from another one of these "young" posters: "Hopefully they leave you the house when they move out of the country."

OP Responds: "That's the plan, actually. Just gotta be patient with my screaming harridan Ma and pussywhipped Pa.

The sooner the better, please Lord: Banana"

So he wants his father to move out of the country but also wants him to leave a house behind for his sake???? While criticizing him for being a beta???

If that's not an entitlement mentality, I'd like to know what is. As for the beta thing, It's simply ironic as hell to depend so heavily on your father yet consider him more beta than you.

I don't do "alpha/beta-speak" - the entire concept comes across as a mighty feminine thing to get hung up on, to be honest. But still...

Fathers throughout history, by and large, being beta providers is the biggest reason we've evolved. Why I'm alive. Why I have two parents (a great advantage these days) and why I have a place to live after getting let go from a good-paying gig.

You're right. There's a cold, callous side of me, that came out the night I wrote my OP like a beast, where, yes, I don't want to be bothered with my smothering, hyper-critical parents. I think that's natural. Did I take it too far with my language? Yes, but what's wrong with letting you Id express itself every once in a while?

Am I showing that I have an ungrateful, greedy and spoiled brat aspect to my personality? Absolutely. But that's not even a 10th of the whole picture. And I don't want to bore you all with my childhood and family history through the lens of Game Theory and Evo Psych. I'd post about it on my blog, if I had more time, but sadly, I'm focused on learning graphic/web design and getting back on the road to independence ASAP.

You're completely allowed to express yourself here, Man, and we all write or say things that aren't completely up to par sometimes. It's not a huge deal to me, but others were backing it up and saying we were being too hard on you, so I just kept making points. No one's sweating you too hard.

Good on you for admitting your faults though. We certainly all have them.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #42

(10-27-2012 04:50 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(10-27-2012 03:17 PM)megatron Wrote:  

(10-27-2012 01:06 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(10-27-2012 03:55 AM)Adam Michaels Wrote:  And also, you can live in your parents house and not be a little spoiled entitled bitch.

I don't think it's so much the living at home with parents that's inviting the criticism. It's more the adult living at home with parents who calls them retarded and can't wait until they leave the country, etc.

Teenagers act like that. Not grown men.

Case in point from another one of these "young" posters: "Hopefully they leave you the house when they move out of the country."

OP Responds: "That's the plan, actually. Just gotta be patient with my screaming harridan Ma and pussywhipped Pa.

The sooner the better, please Lord: Banana"

So he wants his father to move out of the country but also wants him to leave a house behind for his sake???? While criticizing him for being a beta???

If that's not an entitlement mentality, I'd like to know what is. As for the beta thing, It's simply ironic as hell to depend so heavily on your father yet consider him more beta than you.

I don't do "alpha/beta-speak" - the entire concept comes across as a mighty feminine thing to get hung up on, to be honest. But still...

Fathers throughout history, by and large, being beta providers is the biggest reason we've evolved. Why I'm alive. Why I have two parents (a great advantage these days) and why I have a place to live after getting let go from a good-paying gig.

You're right. There's a cold, callous side of me, that came out the night I wrote my OP like a beast, where, yes, I don't want to be bothered with my smothering, hyper-critical parents. I think that's natural. Did I take it too far with my language? Yes, but what's wrong with letting you Id express itself every once in a while?

Am I showing that I have an ungrateful, greedy and spoiled brat aspect to my personality? Absolutely. But that's not even a 10th of the whole picture. And I don't want to bore you all with my childhood and family history through the lens of Game Theory and Evo Psych. I'd post about it on my blog, if I had more time, but sadly, I'm focused on learning graphic/web design and getting back on the road to independence ASAP.

You're completely allowed to express yourself here, Man, and we all write or say things that aren't completely up to par sometimes. It's not a huge deal to me, but others were backing it up and saying we were being too hard on you, so I just kept making points. No one's sweating you too hard.

Good on you for admitting your faults though. We certainly all have them.

I didn't mean to point any fingers at you or anyone else, really. Just kind of wanted to say that pretty much everyone, both for or against what I posted, made some really good points.

Post: #43

(10-27-2012 03:11 PM)megatron Wrote:  I stand by what I wrote, except some of the insults towards my Dad. I wasn't exactly, err, sober when I posted the OP. That's not an excuse: I wrote exactly the way I was feeling that night, and now that I'm back to "normal" mode, I've calmed down.

I don't have kids, but I can only imagine how terrible it would feel to be called a "retard" by one of them. So for that I feel bad. but it's not like I curse out or hurl insults to my Dad's face; I'm honest with him most times, but I do it respectfully. And yes, calling your father a Tard in front of a group of strangers is rude, but it's a forum: the whole point of posting in one is that you're given more leeway to express yourself than most times in real life.

Call me a dick, or a spoiled brat, whatever: I agree with you to a certain extent. But the situation is much more complicated than any of you, or even myself, know: I ain't my Father nor am I my Mother.

Did you ever think how much of the lifestyle you enjoy today was down to the hardwork put in by your parents? Moving to the US, setting up a life there, so that you can enjoy the lifestyle and opportunities that you have now.

That kind of hard work takes its toll on people. I bet they spent their days working their assess off, not whinging on an internet forum....

EDIT: hah, and I love how you blame the shit economy for your job. It sounds like you must have been doing one of those "superfluous pays well when the times are good" jobs that got cut when things tightened up a bit. Whereas, I bet your dad spent his time doing real work (even if it was for less pay)

Post: #44

(10-27-2012 10:10 PM)xy2k Wrote:  

(10-27-2012 03:11 PM)megatron Wrote:  I stand by what I wrote, except some of the insults towards my Dad. I wasn't exactly, err, sober when I posted the OP. That's not an excuse: I wrote exactly the way I was feeling that night, and now that I'm back to "normal" mode, I've calmed down.

I don't have kids, but I can only imagine how terrible it would feel to be called a "retard" by one of them. So for that I feel bad. but it's not like I curse out or hurl insults to my Dad's face; I'm honest with him most times, but I do it respectfully. And yes, calling your father a Tard in front of a group of strangers is rude, but it's a forum: the whole point of posting in one is that you're given more leeway to express yourself than most times in real life.

Call me a dick, or a spoiled brat, whatever: I agree with you to a certain extent. But the situation is much more complicated than any of you, or even myself, know: I ain't my Father nor am I my Mother.

Did you ever think how much of the lifestyle you enjoy today was down to the hardwork put in by your parents? Moving to the US, setting up a life there, so that you can enjoy the lifestyle and opportunities that you have now.

That kind of hard work takes its toll on people. I bet they spent their days working their assess off, not whinging on an internet forum....

EDIT: hah, and I love how you blame the shit economy for your job. It sounds like you must have been doing one of those "superfluous pays well when the times are good" jobs that got cut when things tightened up a bit. Whereas, I bet your dad spent his time doing real work (even if it was for less pay)

You're mad sharp, bro: I was on the Montana Beaver Patrol.

Fine, if you want to think that removing beavers out of dams to keep the life-sustaining rivers flowing "superfluous," whatever.

Post: #45

My dad is 77, so he when he first married and raised his children, it was still normal for the father to be recognized as the head of the household. However, as I've lived my adult life, and then as I took the red pill, I've been able to see that my father has let himself become whipped by my mother.

I was explaining the concept of a shit test to him, then a few minutes later my mom came in the room, and dad went to put the dog in the basement where they feed him. My mom rattled off about seven questions and criticisms about his ability to take the dog to the basement, as fast as she could spit them out. An obvious shit test.

My dad finished taking the dog downstairs, then came back up and told me he sees what I meant about the shit tests. I considered the understanding of shit tests and how to pass them as probably the single easiest and most effective lesson from taking the red pill, and I wanted to share it with my dad. I think he's gotten a little better, and I think my mom has accepted some of my advice that he deserves more respect.

However, I would say that my parents have not had a happy marriage. Part of me is glad they're still together, but in my own life, I decided to push back on the state of my previous marriage, in part because I didn't want to end up like my dad. There's no doubt that the natural tendency in marriage is for women to wear their husbands down until they become whipped. Then the husband has to endure constant nagging, harassment, disrespect and even scorn.

I think it is a red pill truth that a man in this state can reclaim his balls. In many cases, he can turn the situation around, restore himself to the position of respect he deserves, and make the wife happier in the process. In cases where the wife refuses to come around, then he can dump her justly in my opinion. I'm generally opposed to divorce, if it can be avoided. However, if the father works hard and provides, and makes legit efforts to be a proper husband with confidence and leadership, and the wife is an absolutely relentless cunt, then divorce is justified, and the woman can live out her days as a spinster with cats.

Living with a bitchy wife is one of the worst things in the world, and has been recognized as such since ancient times.