Post: #1

I have some lower back issues and they get worse when I squat. Dont get me wrong, squatting is THE shit and I would like to reinclude it into my routine, but it fucks with my back too much.

What the best alternatives for the squats? Leg press? Leg extension? Farmers Walk?

Post: #2

(09-27-2012 01:48 PM)BoiBoi Wrote:  I have some lower back issues and they get worse when I squat. Dont get me wrong, squatting is THE shit and I would like to reinclude it into my routine, but it fucks with my back too much.

What the best alternatives for the squats? Leg press? Leg extension? Farmers Walk?

Iv been using scooby's workshop for my fitness training. Hes all about not getting injured and the home workouts. I recently was on his leg's exercises page and saw his skateboard squats. Might be a good alternative for you.

Post: #3

I would work on diagnosing and fixing your back problem., as well as working on your squat form so you don't get injured again. Otherwise, you are missing out on the most important lift you can do. It's like trying to bang chicks without approaching.

Can you Deadlift? Deadlift for sure if you can.

Post: #4

(09-27-2012 01:48 PM)BoiBoi Wrote:  I have some lower back issues and they get worse when I squat. Dont get me wrong, squatting is THE shit and I would like to reinclude it into my routine, but it fucks with my back too much.

What the best alternatives for the squats? Leg press? Leg extension? Farmers Walk?

If squatting is causing lower back pain, you have flexibility issues.

Learn to stretch your hip flexors, quads, hamstrings, calves, etc and the lower back pain will go away. I used to have the same issues.

Post: #5

Also, barbell step ups are good.

Post: #6

Start training your lower back.

Do a lot of hyperextensions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8Pe0nCH7...re=related

Get some bands from EliteFTS.

Also, your back is weak because your ab is weak.

Start doing hanging leg raises.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdng3Nm1x_E

abs and lower back recovers quickly.

Add 3 sets of hyperextensions and 3 sets of hanging leg raises to 3 of your workouts.

Then check back in next month.

Post: #7

lots of solutions:

front squats with straps (if you have flexibility issues) less stress on the low back but still sressful nontheless
goblet squats
lunges
rear raised leg split squat aka bulgarian squats
step-ups with dumbells held in hads (i.e. walking up down a stair with dumbells)

single leg press

Post: #8

How about Leg presses?

Post: #9

Definitely do lunges.

Post: #10

Lunges are key.

I find clean press at a controlled weight that allows for proper form and moderately/fast reps to be an absolute full body killer.

I do sets of 15-20 at 85 pounds and I'm left seeing stars at the end of my set.

A good leg/core workout leaves testosterone roaring through my system the rest of the day.

Post: #11

Agree with RioNomad's first post 100%. Great analogy too.

Squats and deadlifts are #1 for making big gains. You simply cannot move the same amount of weight with any other exercise (without machine assistance). Problem is, deadlifts are as unforgiving as squats on your back if you have less than flawless form.

Lunges and leg presses will not do the same work for you. Also, disagree with theoak...there are many causes for lower back pain with squats aside from flexibility issues...starting with improper form, for example.

Without exception, I never do squats unless I can be in front of a mirror to monitor every aspect of my body. I recommend the same for anyone else doing squats.

Post: #12

Squat press is a good alternative afaik, though you don't get that core workout. Also if you can't do straight deads, I hear that the "sumo dead" is good as an alternative, but I have never tried it.

I have the same problem, bad back, cannot dead at all and can't do full deep squats with any kind of real weight. Doing shorter squats, about 2/3 as deep, seems to not fuck my back nearly as much, have you tried that?

Post: #13

What problem do you two have that stops you from squatting? Is it an injury you had diagnosed? Or is it just unidentified pain?

There really is no "good alternative" or substitute for squats/deadlifts. They are your two most important lifts. Leg press might work some of the same muscles, but it doesn't come close to a squat in terms of building real strength.

Like I said, you really need to try to find out what is causing the problem, and fix it. If you take the easy way out, and just start doing leg presses, you will not see close to the same results.

Post: #14

(09-27-2012 02:13 PM)theoak Wrote:  

(09-27-2012 01:48 PM)BoiBoi Wrote:  I have some lower back issues and they get worse when I squat. Dont get me wrong, squatting is THE shit and I would like to reinclude it into my routine, but it fucks with my back too much.

What the best alternatives for the squats? Leg press? Leg extension? Farmers Walk?

If squatting is causing lower back pain, you have flexibility issues.

Learn to stretch your hip flexors, quads, hamstrings, calves, etc and the lower back pain will go away. I used to have the same issues.

Leg press and extensions are for girls and the elderly. Lunges are good. I prefer pistol squats AKA 1-leg squats, which take a while to work up to but build strength in every fiber of every muscle, tendon, ligament, etc.

I've hurt my back a handful of times over the years. What I've learned is it isn't a little-by-little injury. You probably injured it once and it's still bothering you. The only thing that heals that is time. Just gotta wait.

I used to attribute lower back injuries to squat form. But the only form mistake on squats that results in lower back problems is rounding your lower back. And if you're rounding your lower back, then what's probably wrong is a combo of poor flexibility and too much weight. With poor hip flexibility or ankle mobility, even with weight that doesn't feel heavy, you'll overcompensate getting low by bending your back, in which case you're really deadlifting the weight out of the hole and then squatting it for the second half.

Squat issues usually come down to hip flexors, which is counterintuitive because you stretch them in the opposite direction of the squat movement. Improve flexibility on all those muscles though, to prevent injury and improve speed.

Also, Belts will NOT prevent back injury.

That's my 2 cents. BTW my squat PR is 405 lb raw, no belt, natural, 6'2 200lb.

Post: #15

(09-27-2012 11:41 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  What problem do you two have that stops you from squatting? Is it an injury you had diagnosed? Or is it just unidentified pain?

There really is no "good alternative" or substitute for squats/deadlifts. They are your two most important lifts. Leg press might work some of the same muscles, but it doesn't come close to a squat in terms of building real strength.

Like I said, you really need to try to find out what is causing the problem, and fix it. If you take the easy way out, and just start doing leg presses, you will not see close to the same results.

Well, I injured myself playing basketball 10 years ago and ever since, I have reocurring lower back pain. Went to the doctors some years back and he diagnosed a pinched/trapped nerve. I know that the only remedy is exercise and I still play basketball 3 times a week and go to the gym 2-3 times a week, as well.

(09-27-2012 02:12 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  Can you Deadlift? Deadlift for sure if you can.

Yes, I can deadlift without problems.

(09-27-2012 02:58 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  Start training your lower back.

Do a lot of hyperextensions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8Pe0nCH7...re=related

Get some bands from EliteFTS.

Also, your back is weak because your ab is weak.

Start doing hanging leg raises.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdng3Nm1x_E

abs and lower back recovers quickly.

Add 3 sets of hyperextensions and 3 sets of hanging leg raises to 3 of your workouts.

Then check back in next month.

You are probably onto something, espescially when it comes to the ab part. I have to work them more. Gonna try hanging raises today.

Anyways, Ill try the bulgarian split squat that someone recommended. T-Nation sold me on this one and also will focus on flexibility, lower back muscles and abs first and then Ill try real squats in a couple of weeks again.

Post: #16

as rippetoe would say, the only alternative to squatting is being a pussy.

that said, there's some good advice in this thread

Post: #17

Head over to the Starting Strength form and search or post about your injury. Rippetoe can be a crude asshole, but he answers questions personally and has a lot or knowledge about injuries and lifting. He's probably dealt with this issue several times, and may have good info for you.

Post: #18

I posted something very similar to this a few months back. I have serious lower back pain from an injury in 2009. It comes and goes. I've decided to lay off squats and deads for the foreseeable future until I feel 100% healed. I kept thinking my back was better and went back to work squats and would mess things up again.

I replaced squatting with an upward leg press machine. It puts no compression on the spine. Better than nothing. I've found no replacement for deads, had to give them up for now. If you go heavy and you have a back problem they are murder on your spine.

Any spine compressing workouts are off the table so other than my flat bench press and barbell curls, it's machines only till I'm completely healed.

Post: #19

(09-28-2012 12:19 AM)ExpatChronicles Wrote:  I used to attribute lower back injuries to squat form. But the only form mistake on squats that results in lower back problems is rounding your lower back. And if you're rounding your lower back, then what's probably wrong is a combo of poor flexibility and too much weight.

Yeah, I ended up rounding my back because of the bar placement being too high. Fixed that and no more problems.

Post: #20

Palm Squats

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8wNyFbN7-s

Sit in an indigenous position, as if you were washing your hands in a river, place palms on the floor, and do this movement. Way more brutal than it looks, and it gives your hamstrings a solid stretch.

Post: #21

Do some back bridges. Not to pimp out Convict Conditioning or anything, but I haven't had any joint problems since I started last January and I used to have all kinds of back and knee pain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lhZpOKk3oo

Just don't think that you can replace the deadlift with the backbridge. I treat it as a sort of "active stretching" exercise and it seems to work well for me.

Post: #22

(09-29-2012 02:39 PM)Hannibal Wrote:  Do some back bridges. Not to pimp out Convict Conditioning or anything, but I haven't had any joint problems since I started last January and I used to have all kinds of back and knee pain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lhZpOKk3oo

Just don't think that you can replace the deadlift with the backbridge. I treat it as a sort of "active stretching" exercise and it seems to work well for me.

Ditto for back bridges. Also snatches and cleans will strengthen and train lower back in a way it just won't get hurt.

Equilibrim in abs / core is important. But ab contractional exercises aren't what stabilize the weight when going into the hole. Prone bridges (also mentioned here) and L-Sits train the stabilizing aspect of "core strength." That's what crumples dudes in American football (or prevents from getting crumpled).

Prone bridges AKA "bos' and toes'" - Start at 30 seconds, then increase time, then remove arm, leg, etc. until you're at the bad ass full planche.

Post: #23

Regardless of what squat you decide to do, make sure your hamstrings are 100% good to go. Foam roll, you might have huge muscle knots tightening up your legs, unable to get them out just with stretch. Hamstings/back muscles are interconnected.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u86d5zV2jKc

I just use a small dumbell for the hamstrings, using the weight part of it as the ball like in that video (but sitting on a bench). You'll find something that works for you.

Post: #24

(09-29-2012 08:55 PM)ExpatChronicles Wrote:  

(09-29-2012 02:39 PM)Hannibal Wrote:  Do some back bridges. Not to pimp out Convict Conditioning or anything, but I haven't had any joint problems since I started last January and I used to have all kinds of back and knee pain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lhZpOKk3oo

Just don't think that you can replace the deadlift with the backbridge. I treat it as a sort of "active stretching" exercise and it seems to work well for me.

Ditto for back bridges. Also snatches and cleans will strengthen and train lower back in a way it just won't get hurt.

Equilibrim in abs / core is important. But ab contractional exercises aren't what stabilize the weight when going into the hole. Prone bridges (also mentioned here) and L-Sits train the stabilizing aspect of "core strength." That's what crumples dudes in American football (or prevents from getting crumpled).

Prone bridges AKA "bos' and toes'" - Start at 30 seconds, then increase time, then remove arm, leg, etc. until you're at the bad ass full planche.

I'm already up to walking bridges in convict conditioning, which is level 9, I believe. What's funny is that I have more strength and flexibility than most people who do yoga. I'm probably three to four months away from stand-to-stand bridges, if you're familiar with that term.

Regular bridges strengthened my back in ways that deadlifts and pullups could not. Every time one of my friends complains about back problems, I recommend bridges. I can also do a 15 second Lsit and I'm working on doing them on my fingertips.

When you say snatches and cleans, is that the typical olympic lift or does it also count with kettlebells? When I get back to the states, I'm going to add kettlebell snatches and swings to my workout to strengthen my back. I know how to do cleans and snatches with a kettlebell, but I've never been trained with a barbell and I'm not too sure if the gym I normally go to has the facilities for it. Not that I wouldn't like to learn something new, but we don't have people who teach that stuff unless you're an athlete (which I am not). I've done them with dumbbells, but barbells are something else entirely.

Post: #25

Look into Hindu squats and sissy squats. Body weight is fine for both of these exercises.

Even though squats are considered king when it comes to body building, I find that it makes the lower body, specifically the ass, get way to big. I was heavy into lifting up until a year ago, it sucks when you can't find jeans that fit properly because of how massive your legs are.

The sissy and Hindu squat target the quads more than the glutes/ass and make for a leaner/longer looking leg. Check em out, I swear by them.

All depends on what your goals are though. Nowadays I'm more into the aesthetic thing.