(09-22-2012 09:04 PM)IainMuirs Wrote: Laos isn't much cheaper and it's much less modern. Internet in the major cities isn't great (yet ironically in Vang Vieng which is a small village in the middle of the mountains it's pretty fast -though it is a major tourist attraction for the tubing) which could be a problem for the OPs internet business. In Luang Prabang the net cuts off frequently or just doesn't work for hours on end and that's it's second city so something to keep in mind. Less distractions though, not such a major party place, girls more conservative and not legally allowed to be with foreigners (fine and jail for both of you is possible) so less distractions maybe but the lack of reliable net could be an issue.
If I may, here's my take on Laos, having spent about 4 months there, off and on.
First off, Vientianne is far underrated as a living destination, especially for someone working online and trying to get things done. I'm only going to focus on that city specifically because it's the only one that makes sense for a serious businessman. Most people blast through for a visa or en route after doing the riverboat trip and tubing in Viang Vieng, but I spent some real time there getting work done, and the place will really grow on you.
I seriously considered settling in for a while.
The Food Variety is Amazing
That city, while small and quiet, has a better selection of foreign food restaurants than any other place in Southeast Asia, drawing not only from my own limited experiences but the experiences of others I've talked to who've been all over the region.
French, Italian, Mexican, Turkish, Indian. Most importantly, unlike many of the shabby excuses for foreign cuisine you find in Thailand, the restaurants in Vientiane are cooking up some delicious grub. You'll never run out of great eating options in Vientiane, that's for sure.
Nightlife
It's pretty quiet for the most part, but there are some clubs that stay open all night if you look around a bit. The curfew is supposed to be midnight, and the government does crack down sometimes - they were enforcing the curfew more last time I was there - but on some visits there were no shortage of all-night parties. Go to Viang Vieng for the occaissional rave and backpacker chicks.
You do get the advantage of not having the party in your face all the time. It's far less chaotic and noisy than Thailand, and this holds a lot of appeal for those that stick around. I really learned to cherish my "breaks from Thailand" when heading up for a visa run.
Local Women
Yes, it's technically illegal to sleep with a local woman if you aren't married. My research and own experiences show this to be hardly ever enforced. I slept in a Lao girl's house and I've brought multiple women back to my hotel room. Some places won't allow it - some look the other way.
The deal is that in the vast majority of cases, people mind their own business and will not give flak to a foreigner with a Lao gf or parade of "giks."
That said, if you're the kind of person who draws a lot of attention to yourself and/or the local authorities want a reason to get rid of you, the law may be enforced. (running down the street with a short local chick over your shoulder, saying "one kilo" over and over isn't exactly incognito, but it's funny as hell lol)
Enforcement usually means getting you to pay a fine and then forcing you to leave the country - maybe just one of the two. From what I've heard, it doesn't even mean you can't come back, though you should do your own research on the blacklisting issue.
Yes, it is something to be aware of and take into account, but there are plenty of foreign workers and expats over there getting their freak on. In most cases, it just pays to be somewhat discrete.
I noticed the women had bigger breasts than Thais.
This is a good thing.
EDIT: Importing a Thai gf or Western gif is an obvious solution but both mean settling down, which most of us don't want.
Lao People Can Be a Little Aggressive
Maybe it's my own personal experience, but I found the Lao people to be a little more confrontational than the Thais. Thais can be pretty violent but as long as you keep your cool and don't mess with people you won't ever have a problem.
In Laos, on the other hand, I've had multiple instances (usually involving alcohol) of people putting me on the spot or trying to start an argument with me. In one case, a guy even headbutted me in the forehead in a club, and I had the good sense to turn and walk away (I was by myself and he was with a crowd of outlaw-looking locals). This type of thing simply never happened to me in Thailand.
Ladyboys will follow you on the streets at night when walking home from the bar. They are pretty aggressive as well, and getting tailed by a couple dudes in drag down a dark, unlit street in the wee hours of the morning (while you're shitfaced no less) can be quite unnerving.
I think a big part of the aggression in Laos has to do with the fact that it is such a small country with such a rocky past. Coming from Laos is akin to coming from some mountain town in Northern California where the nearest city is 2 hours away (I grew up in a place like this so I should know). People from many other Southeast Asian countries also look down on them.
I think these issues combined with the hardship creates a real sense of national pride and ethnocentrism.
There's also a lot of reason for them to have animosity towards Americans for past atrocities, and most seem to have forgiven, but people are still getting blown up there every year from unexploded ordinance (don't go to Vientiane without a visit to the sobering UXE museum and making a donation).
I've had at least one drunken Lao guy confront me on American politics (two others stuck up for me and told him I was cool even though I just met them). Another Laos confronted me about paying for people to like me and throwing my money around. Anyone watching could see that this was hardly the case. I was in a club with a Thai and a Lao guy drinking with some girls, but we weren't even paying for the girls drinks - we were all sharing costs.
The Thai mediated and explained I wasn't that kind of traveler, and the problem went away.
There is also a real outlaw culture in Laos, much like you might find in the boondocks in the States. They truly are living in the wild west out there.
Don't get me wrong. I am not saying, by any means, that Lao people are not friendly or are always like this. These instances were a mere 1% in a ton of encounters I had with very friendly people who were super happy I was in their country. And they are not even a fraction as aggressive as the Vietnamese.
So don't let it concern you - just breaking down the realities as I saw them. If you don't frequent local drinking establishments all that much, you probably won't even notice at all.
Asshole Expats
Even more alarming to me was the state of the expat population in Laos, especially if you spend time in the bars and clubs. I found there were a ton of assholes in Vientiane.
I think the reason for this is that a lot of the guys are working there, making a good deal of money, and have really developed the attitude of a big fish in a small town. This is a phenomenon a few other people I've talked to noticed while there too.
Common observations were Western guys who got far too loud and obnoxious, made rude comments, and even trying to start fights. I find it's usually the Brits and the Americans you have to watch out for.
To be honest, I'd rather deal with an asshole local than an asshole expat there any day of the week; hence why I preferred going native while there.
Opportunities in Laos
Opportunities, specifically in the capital, seem abundant. The country is resource-rich. Incomes are growing. There's a promising future ahead. If you're they type of guy who likes to get his feet on the ground and break into new markets, this wouldn't be a bad place to be at all. Also, if you've ever thought of starting a business that services expats, the growth in Vientiane's future will be bringing a lot of business your way.
I also think it would be little easier to stay and do business. As far as I know, you can keep stepping across the border and coming back in for a visa on arrival indefinitely (and in Vientiane the border is right down the road). I can't vouch for the validity of this statement so look into it.
By looking into it I mean asking on forums not reading the "official" rules on government sites.
Another point is the same reason so many expats are pricks there - again, it's easy to become a big fish in a small pond in Vientiane. Within my first week there, I met a guy who was pretty high up in the government. he owned a couple restaurants and hotels in the city I was going to build websites for, and his wife introduced us.
Guy had studied in Russia, spoke several languages, and had traveled all over Europe (not your typical cat). He bought me a ticket to the SEA Games (basically the Southeast Asian Olympics) and was obviously nurturing me as an important business contact.
He was very encouraging about the possibility of living in Laos, getting a long-term visa, and starting a business. He said just bring my ideas to him and there was always a way to make it work (they are very interested in getting more money into their country and creating jobs).
I would think someone a bit more business savvy than I would go a long way if they conducted themselves with self-respect, professionalism, and a confident air in that country. I probably could have done it myself if I'd just have stuck around.
Acting like the typical drunken sexpat would be a huge success killer though, even on occaission - Vientiane is a very small city. But with the rest of Southeast Asia at your fingertips for side vacations, a balance of work and play would be easy as long as you had the budget.
The Internet Situation
Internet in vientiane can be shabby - not many good internet cafes.
One that stands out very well, though, is the coffee shop in the downtown area called TRUE Coffee - the fastest internet in town and probably the fastest in all of Laos. They have computers that are in pretty good shape and free wireless for customers.
I hung out all day working and no one complained.
The place is air-conditioned - very nice treat in Laos - and looks like a nice Western coffee shop. Furniture is comfortable. The drinks and desserts are pretty tasty. I spent all my time here working while staying in the city and a lot of successful expat businessmen from thailand come through the very spot, so networking possibilities do exist. Remember - almost every Thailand expat goes there from time to time to handle their visa paperwork.
You can also get internet at your room if you get an apartment or condo, and I've been told the speed is pretty decent in a situation like that.
Or check out getting internet through a mobile provider and you can take it with you wherever you go.
Here you go: "For mobile internet access, Beeline, LTC, ETL and Unitel all offer some UMTS HSDPA 3G-3.75G services in Vientiane and Lao provincial cities, with 2G EDGE and GPRS as a fallback in less-populated areas. Unitel downloads up to 5 Mbps – faster than LaoTel and ETL. Currently, Beeline has the fastest 3G in Laos and will launch a 4G/LTE service in Vientiane later in 2012. See all Laos ISP data plans and rates." from
http://www.retire-asia.com/lao-communications.shtml
The Prices
Costs in Laos are about the same as in Thailand, give or take - sometimes cheaper simply because there isn't as much going out to big clubs and partying. Food tends to be more expensive if you eat foreign cuisines downtown but can stay pretty cheap in Laos neighborhoods. Lodging in Vientiane can be steep for something nice but if you do your homework cheaper units are definitely out there.
Again - knowing how to talk to the people is your key.
A Few Other Things
Beer Laos is hands down the best beer in Southeast Asia, maybe all of Asia, and has won awards in Belgium beer festivals. It is a true pride of the people and a huge part of everyday life there. I've never met a people so passionately proud of their beer culture.
I'd say the best thing about Laos is the sheer beauty and the outdoor adventure. It's known to a lot of internationally-minded motorcycle riders as the best place in the world to tour, and I have done some touring the countryside myself.
(WARNING: aimless reminiscing below)
I tried to hunt down the famous fireballs of Naga this last fall. I drove 3 or 4 hours off into the country and got directions down some muddy dirt road, where I drove for about another hour before reaching the Mekong (the kid who gave me the directions barely spoke English so I wasn't sure if I was even going the right way).
there was a shitload of people out there when I finally arrived but not one single farang seemed to know about it. I met a well-to-do Laos family who invited me to sit down at their table to eat and drink beer. They spoke Thai so conversation was manageable. Lots of laughs. Didn't get out of there until midnight or later.
On the way back it was pouring down rain and the mud was so slippery I must have laid over the bike literally 15 times. lol It was crazy, but I was laughing the whole time. Covered in mud from head to toe and thought for sure I was lost or the bike would break down, but I finally made it back to the pavement.
The Naga never showed up but it was one of the funnest motorbike trips I ever took in my life and I'll never forget it.
You can also rent a high-powered dirtbike and drive over the mountains to Vietnam, which I was planning to do before detouring back to America to see a friend that was dying of cancer.
Laos also has a lot of great rafting, kayaking, rock climbing, and caving. If you're an outdoorsy guy, you really can't go wrong there.
Home
RooshV.com
Search (Via Forum)
Member List
![[-]](images/collapse.gif)
The following 2 users Like Adam Michaels's post:
