Post: #26

I forgot to mention that Krasnodarskyi kraj(or Kuban as they call it) borders to Caucasus and Abkhazia so a foreigner can be suspicious for terrorism and nationalistic feelings may be stronger than the rest of Russia.

Post: #27

(08-27-2012 04:20 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  Interesting opinion Greek about your experiences in Krasnodarski Krai. Maybe the nationalism you felt was more evident there what with it being a traditional Cossack region? I don't know if the nationalist feelings are as strong in other parts of Russia. Everyone will have different experiences but mine were the polar opposite.

My experience in provincial Russia:
I have only been outside of Moscow and Pieter once when I took a 12 hour train ride with a buddy East of Moscow into the Volga region ( Samara Region ). I know I've discussed that trip with some members previously but for those who I have not, it was a real eye opener. The people in general were immensely friendly especially the women. I remember being in a cafe with my I-phone out on the table. Three Gopniki were sitting at the next table and when they heard us speaking English one leaned over and advised me to hide my phone or it would be stolen. What he was implying was that HE would have stolen it had I not been a dumb foreigner! Any place where even the criminals look out for you is good in my eyes. Don't work like that in Moscow. We were in a town where tourists don't go and hence we were a real sight to behold for the locals. I went to the small shopping centre there whilst my friend went on a date with our hotel's bar woman and whilst queueing up to buy some sweets from a stall holder a group of girls gathered around me firing questions at me and giggling at my stupid answers just as was written in my friends post earlier in this thread. We got so many numbers in those three days,had dates,kiss closes and had nothing but great responses. People could not believe we were foreign and asked us to prove it by showing our passports. Funny. The town was also not run down but really well maintained,not an industrial shit hole as you imagine third tier to be. There was a club there playing cheesy R&B,cheap and full of immense talent,the hottest teenagers you have ever seen and unlike in Moscow very low bitch shields. Really good atmosphere. On our last night we were walking down the road when two girls hot walked past us on the street and said "good evening 'Vorkuta'" and laughed. They had heard of the two foreigners in town from some friends ( just as Greek described in his post about anonymity ) but it helped us,we were proofed. They took us to a bar where we danced,swapped numbers,had a grab of their asses and made promises etc. The problem was we had a train to catch the same night so no lay from them,I was so fucking tempted to stay. On our way to the station I got a sms from a girl I had met earlier asking if she could come say goodbye to me at the station. It was all too good to be true. The fact is I did not bang though. A couple of reasons: We did not pipeline and relied on day game and three days was not enough to fuck close. We spread ourselves too thin by meeting different women instead of concentrating on one ( I had three dates in one evening - that was complicated in a small town ). Also I was sharing a room with my mate so logistics were fucked which robbed my motivation to push for a close and tbh I'd been getting laid in Moscow so it was more of a reconnaissance trip ( that's my excuse anyway ). What it convinced me of was that if I had rented an apartment there for a month or two I would have been fucking the hottest women I have ever banged. It was too small to be banging a lot of women but I would have quite happily settled down for a couple of months with a stunning 20 year old and enjoyed a mini relationship.

That is not to say everyone will have a great experience like I did,there are so many factors contriving for or against you. If I'd visited in the summer maybe things would have been different or maybe a town 100km's down the road would not be as welcoming. You have to find your own paradise that suits you,your personality,budget,tastes etc.

I agree with what my friend said in the post of his I posted earlier about smaller towns being better for the wow factor however I agree with Greek too about less then a million meaning you get known which may not be beneficial. Therefore the solution is to find a town that is surrounded by other towns. Here is a photo I took of a random page in my Russian road atlas:


What this shows is an area of European Russia. All the towns are third tier so if you rented an apartment in let's say Ivanovo ( for non Cyrillic readers it's the one near the bottom ending in the letter 'O' ) you would have 4 or 5 other hunting grounds to exhaust all within 100km of each other. Just think,that is about 20 to 30 provincial disco-clubs where you can run game without being known. You could visit them in rotation but having your base in one so that you have a comfortable set up,nice cheap apartment,gym membership,a small solid social circle for when you are bored. That set up suits me best as I don't like large cities as much,they are expensive and less personal. And egotistically I don't feel as 'special' in them but merely just another dude from the west.

For you guys who do like big cities then you could find a large million resident city but surrounded by other larger and smaller ones so you can have the best of both worlds like this:

If you based yourself in Chelyabinsk you'd have the choice of Ekaterinburg and Ufa too and a host of little towns. You'd have untold thousands of women to pursue but you'd not be able to DHV your nationality as much since even the girls living in the smaller towns would have visited and probably spent a lot of time in the larger towns surrounding their shit hole and hence would not be so overawed by your mystique.

I have also spent a lot of time in Belarus in the provinces but only in the East of the country and that is notoriously hard to bang consistently in. The good thing about Belarus in comparison to Russia is it's damned cheap. You can rent apartments there for $200 USD a month. That won't get you shit in Russia. You can also eat very cheaply in Belarus if you don't mind eating in Stolovayas ( some are surprisingly good ) which are dirt cheap. Everything is cheap in Belarus but what you gain in your pocket you lose in the openness of the provincial women imo. In second tier Belarus I have failed miserably at times due to the women seeing a lone man as a sex tourist or just as someone to be hugely suspicious of. Don't rule it out as I have had some great times BUT it was not as relaxed as in Russia or anywhere near as manic and fun. There is a definite difference between Russians and Belarussians,the latter being more reserved. Better for an LTR maybe but not as much fun for trying some debauched short trips.

I have not been to second tier Ukraine except for a brief trip to Uzhgorod so any input into experiences there would be welcome.

In your case I would base myself in Perm,Ekaterinenburg or Chelyabinsk and visit the surrounding cities in Urals.

Post: #28

A guy I know had this to say about provincial Ukraine/Russia. It's worth a read:


"If you are at all concerned with cost I would strongly, strongly urge you to go to Ukraine instead. There are still untapped smaller cities in Ukraine where foreigners have just as much of a bonus as in provincial Russia. In fact I would say more so, since you don't see as much anti-Americanism (if you're American).

For example, the town of Romny in Sumy oblast (pop. 50, 000) where I spent a few nights has only one club, but it's open 7 nights a week and is dirt cheap. I showed up every night and one night hosted a whole table of girls celebrating a birth day, the total bill was something like $70 (for champagne, chocolate, food, cocktails, etc. Etc.). A hotel room there was $12 a night for a luks room (standard room was $7 / night. And this was in 2009.

By comparison, in a small town of 50, 000 people in Russia where I spent two nights in 2010 I had a hotel room for $30 a night and it was absolutely terrible. I mean unbelievably bad. There was only one toilet in the entire hotel and it was in one of the rooms, so you had to knock and ask permission of that guest to use the toilet.

Or compare train prices. A kupe ticket from Moscow to Samara is about 4, 000 rubles ($120) for a 14 hour ride, while kupe from Kiev to Lviv is $20 (for a 10 hour ride). Beer in Samara is about 100 rubles at clubs ($3. 50) but only 6 hrivnya in provincial Ukrainian clubs ($0. 80). Hotels are correspondingly cheaper. Another example, the tram or bus in Samara is 15 rubles a ride ($0. 50) but in Kiev the metro is only $0. 25 (and in the provinces the buses are a lot less than that).

I spent a night out in a small Ukrainian town recently trying to find a good club (on a Friday). I took 4 taxis around the town, had 5-6 beers, a pack of cigarettes, and payed entrance at one of the clubs, and all of that was under $15 (which is what entrace costs at some clubs in Samara).

And Ukraine has some other perks that are just a hassle in Russia, for example there is no registration in Ukraine (which can be a pain if you are renting a private flat in Russia). Also in Russia, to buy a local SIM card you need local registration, so you might have to wait a few days after arriving to be able to call girls at all. In Ukraine it's just $5 cash for a SIM card no questions asked. And of course for EU citizens and Americans you don't even need a visa, which is a huge plus.

I think the main thing is to avoid the places in Ukraine that are just overloaded with mongers (Kiev and Odessa in particular). Western Ukraine also seems to not be as good in terms of girls, I think mainly because their attitude is more standoffish and they dress more modestly as well. But there are lots of Eastern Ukrainian cities where most people are Russian-speaking and their incomes are 1/3 of what people are making in Russia. I was just in Ukraine and met a group of girls working at the local shopping mall in a smaller city, and they all made less than $120 a month for 6 days a week working. In provincial Russia they would be making at least $400 a month.

But you could pick some unvisited cities. Have you heard of Priluky? What about Kramatorsk? Shostka?

If I had two months and could go anywhere in the FSU, I'd pick a small Ukrainian city like that where you could live like a king on $1000 / month, and for another $1000 a month you could probably keep 3-4 girls.

Post: #29

(08-27-2012 04:55 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  A guy I know had this to say about provincial Ukraine/Russia. It's worth a read:


"If you are at all concerned with cost I would strongly, strongly urge you to go to Ukraine instead. There are still untapped smaller cities in Ukraine where foreigners have just as much of a bonus as in provincial Russia. In fact I would say more so, since you don't see as much anti-Americanism (if you're American).

For example, the town of Romny in Sumy oblast (pop. 50, 000) where I spent a few nights has only one club, but it's open 7 nights a week and is dirt cheap. I showed up every night and one night hosted a whole table of girls celebrating a birth day, the total bill was something like $70 (for champagne, chocolate, food, cocktails, etc. Etc.). A hotel room there was $12 a night for a luks room (standard room was $7 / night. And this was in 2009.

By comparison, in a small town of 50, 000 people in Russia where I spent two nights in 2010 I had a hotel room for $30 a night and it was absolutely terrible. I mean unbelievably bad. There was only one toilet in the entire hotel and it was in one of the rooms, so you had to knock and ask permission of that guest to use the toilet.

Or compare train prices. A kupe ticket from Moscow to Samara is about 4, 000 rubles ($120) for a 14 hour ride, while kupe from Kiev to Lviv is $20 (for a 10 hour ride). Beer in Samara is about 100 rubles at clubs ($3. 50) but only 6 hrivnya in provincial Ukrainian clubs ($0. 80). Hotels are correspondingly cheaper. Another example, the tram or bus in Samara is 15 rubles a ride ($0. 50) but in Kiev the metro is only $0. 25 (and in the provinces the buses are a lot less than that).

I spent a night out in a small Ukrainian town recently trying to find a good club (on a Friday). I took 4 taxis around the town, had 5-6 beers, a pack of cigarettes, and payed entrance at one of the clubs, and all of that was under $15 (which is what entrace costs at some clubs in Samara).

And Ukraine has some other perks that are just a hassle in Russia, for example there is no registration in Ukraine (which can be a pain if you are renting a private flat in Russia). Also in Russia, to buy a local SIM card you need local registration, so you might have to wait a few days after arriving to be able to call girls at all. In Ukraine it's just $5 cash for a SIM card no questions asked. And of course for EU citizens and Americans you don't even need a visa, which is a huge plus.

I think the main thing is to avoid the places in Ukraine that are just overloaded with mongers (Kiev and Odessa in particular). Western Ukraine also seems to not be as good in terms of girls, I think mainly because their attitude is more standoffish and they dress more modestly as well. But there are lots of Eastern Ukrainian cities where most people are Russian-speaking and their incomes are 1/3 of what people are making in Russia. I was just in Ukraine and met a group of girls working at the local shopping mall in a smaller city, and they all made less than $120 a month for 6 days a week working. In provincial Russia they would be making at least $400 a month.

But you could pick some unvisited cities. Have you heard of Priluky? What about Kramatorsk? Shostka?

If I had two months and could go anywhere in the FSU, I'd pick a small Ukrainian city like that where you could live like a king on $1000 / month, and for another $1000 a month you could probably keep 3-4 girls.

I agree with all of the above.It is exactly like that.Russia is more expensive than Ukraine(due to ruble being overvaluated and gryvnia devaluated) and more of a hassle regarding simple things.(in Ukraine you can always get away).
Ukraine is more European so to say.It is more like a soft Russia or a harder Poland.
With 1000$ per month you do not live like a King in Ukraine even in small city.You need at least 1500 euro per month to live like a King in Ukraine.
Russia has the advantag eof the huge capacity as I have described.Accomodation in small cities can cost as low as 1000 rubles(25 euro) per day or even 500 rubles per day if you are willing to compromise.Accomodation in bigger cities(Krasnodar,Rostov na Don) can be a lot more expensive(almost all hotels cost more than 50 euro per day even the Soviet ones).
It depends.Russia is more adventure in my opinion.I would like to visit Ural region,Pskov,Smolensk and Kursk and the East Asia region cities like Khabarovsk,Barnaul.I have found the best responses to come from these regions although it may be misleading.

Post: #30

In a sense, Ukraine is one of the poorest regions of Russia. Ukrainians tell me the border with Russia is completely open for them: they can freely travel to and from Russia, they can live and work there without a hassle. Many men leave Ukraine to work in Russia. I think this is part of why the female ratio is so good in Ukraine.

I wonder if the female ratio in Russia itself is bad -- if guys from the FSU countries go there to work, I would think it would hurt Russia's female ratio.

Post: #31

Does anybody have any data/statistics regarding Ukraine and the average wage in each city/region?

Edit: Found it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ukr..._by_salary

Here is a map showing the regions by average wages:
[attachment=7476]

Post: #32

I think there's a lot of manufacturing in the east. I wonder what the yellow spot in the west is like, maybe just wilderness? Seems like the yellow part speaks Ukrainian and the red part speaks Russian.

Post: #33

Yellow is Ternopil oblast a city with 250000 inhabitants on paper but in reality it is more like 50000 since most have emigrated.It is indeed a shithole you cannot find worse.I absolutely do not recommend to travel there.Very few beautiful girls left.Clubs mostly empty with people known to each other.

Post: #34

(08-27-2012 12:03 PM)The Duke Wrote:  I think there's a lot of manufacturing in the east. I wonder what the yellow spot in the west is like, maybe just wilderness?

It is Ternopil Oblast. Wikipedia has this to say about the region: "Although the city continues to grow rapidly, heavily supported by remittances from workers abroad, many abandoned buildings in rural areas of the oblast and even in the city give mute evidence that the economy is uneven."

Sounds pretty shit. I think Greek went there unless I'm mistaken. He said there were no women around,they had all left to look for work elsewhere.

Reason for edit: ^^ posted at same time. Yeah he confirms it is utter shit.

Post: #35

Some girls there have a strong sense of nationalism and others don't. The girls who I wouldn't describe as nationalist that I dated were at least proud of parts of their country and culture, just possessing a strong sense of curiosity about foreign lands and travel.

The girls who have no sense of nationalism I don't trust and would not get into a relationship beyond a hit-and-run. Most of these girls were bitter and on the wrong side of 25. If a girl there has absolutely no sense of pride in her country she is way more likely to be the type to try and claw her way into your life.

A couple girls who I dated were very against dating a foreigner and it took a while for them to warm up to me. I guess I liked them more because of it, it seemed like they weren't the type who would get wide-eyed for every travelling businessman to come to their city. Either that or they mind-fucked me.

Post: #36

A member PMed me some questions.
Here is a copy of my reply, in case it its useful to others ...


I will try to answer your questions, but bear in mind that I traveled "too quickly" through most of these cities and stayed in hostels, so not well positioned for gaming to the close.
The big advantage in hostels for me, traveling alone, is that most people speak English and the people working there are super helpful. The low cost is a bonus.

In 2011 I visited Istanbul, Sunny Beach, Varna, Bucharest, Chisinau (transit), Odesa, Kiev, Lviv, Krakow, Sopot/Gdansk, Vilnius, Riga, Tallinn, Helsinki.

This year I have visited Budapest, Belgrade, Cluj-Napoca, Cherivtsi, Odesa, Kharkiv, Donetsk, Volgograd, Samara, Moscow, St Petersburg, Vilnius, Minsk, Warsaw, and just arrived in Kiev.

I am also really picky about pretty faces, though I have a weakness for a great rack, especially when its above a flat tummy!
I am limited by only speaking English. My only 4 words of Russian include da and nyet.
Also I hate smoking. The further east you go, the more likely someone will blow smoke in your face while you are eating a meal in a restaurant.

Ok, so to try and analyse ... When you are walking around amongst the crowds in these cities, the vast majority of people are much the same as in western countries, but our eyes are naturally inclined to seek out the prettiest girls.
In top locations, I would estimate you would see 2 or 3 in a hundred that are stunners whereas in a western country, probably 1 or 2 in a thousand. Obviously this changes if you go into a top nightclub, but these are very artificial environments, as elsewhere.

On average I think Ukraine and Belorussian girls are slimmer, then Russian, then Baltics. Poles typically have bigger breasts.

Faces? I like the classic cute little turned up nose, so for me 50 - 75% of them don't make the grade.

Another way to look at it ... In most of these places, if you just wander around in walking precincts or shopping malls, you will see at least one super hot girl within an hour, whereas at home that may take days or weeks!

As for which cities in Ukraine or Russia have the hottest "available" girls, I could not make an objective call. I would tend towards Ukraine, and Kiev simply because it has the critical mass.
Odessa looks good on the surface but its the only place I have been approached and propositioned by hookers (2 years running).

The other spot that I have a really good feeling about is Vilnius, for a good balance of attractive women, quality of life, etc.

For me, I can't resist the temptation to see new places for myself and this has mean't not spending enough time in one place to game effectively as Roosh does.
I you just want to game efficiently, go straight to Kiev and get an apartment for at least 2 or 3 weeks.

A bit of a ramble. Not sure if I've answered your questions. I hope this helped.

Post: #37

Antipodean, that's a tremendous travel log. Looking forward to hearing more about your journeys.

Post: #38

whilst doing some snooping on the Interwebzzz, i found a map of the former USSR from 1974. i know it's dated, but it overlaps nicely with the Ethnic Republics map posted by Vorkuta earlier in this thread, so FWIW,

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/commonwea...c_1974.jpg

YMMV