Post: #1

Guys, as I keep reading all this stuff about alpha vs beta one thing keeps coming back to me and its that even after taking the so called red pill not everyone can be an alpha. In the animal kingdom even after observing the alpha the other animals can not become an alpha even if they wanted to, its just not in their blood. I am willing to bet that most of the people on this forum are not alpha either , they are just more experienced and know what works for them and what doesn't.

Frankly speaking I have no desire to be one of these " look at me I am the greatest thing since sliced bread" type of guys. I have no interest in being the life of the party nor do I care to pretend like I want to speak to everyone I see just so I can be seen as more "social". I don't wanna be wasting time in the sweatroom (also known as the gym) just so I can have more chiseled muscles nor do I have a burning desire to be the greatest leader the mankind has ever seen when I am more than fine being an assistant or some normal guy in the backround.

I guess all those things would technically make me a beta , a beta that tasted the red pill but just doesn't wanna live a life that's completely unnatural to him. A beta that just needs to find out what works for him and what type of women would still be attracted to him and go for them. Would you guys agree??
On another related note, all this alpha stuff seems to be important in the western world, with western women. It seems like if one had to go to say Asia, Russia or Latin America being a normal nice (not carpet) type of guy would land you enough cute (not top of the range models) girls. Would you guys agree with this? anyone experienced something like that before?

Post: #2

What's an Enlightened Beta?

Post: #3

(08-21-2012 04:05 AM)soup Wrote:  What's an Enlightened Beta?

well its someone who knows what type of behavior, lifestyle, personality ( a jerk, asshole, alpha male lol) would get most women , however has no interest in being that type of person.

Post: #4

The "enlightened beta" needs to do more approaches.

Post: #5

(08-21-2012 04:12 AM)LostSoul Wrote:  

(08-21-2012 04:05 AM)soup Wrote:  What's an Enlightened Beta?

well its someone who knows what type of behavior, lifestyle, personality ( a jerk, asshole, alpha male lol) would get most women , however has no interest in being that type of person.

The majority of "alphas" I know aren't "jerks" or "assholes". They're just confident as fuck, go for what they want and don't put girls on pedestals.

Your definition of what type of guy gets girls is completely out of whack, think about the (non pickup) players you know and what they all have in common.Some are nasty, some are all round nice guys (and I don't mean the creepy "nice" who has ulterior motives for niceness), some are icy, some are comedic, some are quiet, some talk a lot but unless they're a celebrity their behaviour will still be as I described above.

Also, getting a great body is never a waste of time and hypergamy is a woman's inbuilt state. It's just that in the developing world due to the absence of a gender equal society the average dude automatically has some status higher then a females with which to attract her. No matter how backwards a country is, girls always want the best possible dude they can get.

The average dude knows that "girls love assholes" or whatever but that doesn't mean they stop the pathetic things they do with women. Knowing "what works" won't change the behaviour/mindset/personality that dries up vaginas.

Post: #6

(08-21-2012 04:23 AM)P Dog Wrote:  

(08-21-2012 04:12 AM)LostSoul Wrote:  

(08-21-2012 04:05 AM)soup Wrote:  What's an Enlightened Beta?

well its someone who knows what type of behavior, lifestyle, personality ( a jerk, asshole, alpha male lol) would get most women , however has no interest in being that type of person.

The majority of "alphas" I know aren't "jerks" or "assholes". They're just confident as fuck, go for what they want and don't put girls on pedestals.

Your definition of what type of guy gets girls is completely out of whack, think about the (non pickup) players you know and what they all have in common.Some are nasty, some are all round nice guys (and I don't mean the creepy "nice" who has ulterior motives for niceness), some are icy, some are comedic, some are quiet, some talk a lot but unless they're a celebrity their behaviour will still be as I described above.

Also, getting a great body is never a waste of time and hypergamy is a woman's inbuilt state. It's just that in the developing world due to the absence of a gender equal society the average dude automatically has some status higher then a females with which to attract her. No matter how backwards a country is, girls always want the best possible dude they can get.

The average dude knows that "girls love assholes" or whatever but that doesn't mean they stop the pathetic things they do with women. Knowing "what works" won't change the behaviour/mindset/personality that dries up vaginas.

ok, so can we just say that being alpha is over rated and you dont have to be an alpha to land some nice girls??

Post: #7

(08-21-2012 04:18 AM)soup Wrote:  The "enlightened beta" needs to do more approaches.

Amen! Question answered, thread can be closed now.

Post: #8

Guys, I think you are missing the point. This thread is not about whether I make 10 or 100 approaches. Its about whether being beta and displaying beta characteristics can still get you laid regularly and that you don't need to be an alpha to be successful with women.

Post: #9

You want to be lazy and get laid. There are many like you. If betas did not get laid there would be no human race, so of course it is possible. In fact, it happens all the time everywhere in the world. So, it comes down to what you mean by "regularly." Once a week? Every 2 days? Every 5 months? You will be able to get laid, but not like someone who is in great shape and regularly practices trying to sleep with women. Anyone can run, but you won't be able to run like an athlete who practices all the time. Same thing with women.

Post: #10

+1 to Menace. If you act beta while knowing it you'll probably be even more desperate than those who act beta b/c they don't know any better. Alpha-Beta is a spectrum, not two discreet states, and you should aim at moving yourself towards the Alpha endpoint one step at a time: building solid inner game (confidence), working out, doing more - building yourself up. And approach.

Post: #11

Quote: I don't wanna be wasting time in the sweatroom (also known as the gym) just so I can have more chiseled muscles

As a former "intellectual" who spent several years with that attitude before actually getting under the bar and doing some strength training and seeing the benefits, I can assure you of the relevance of this quote from Mark Rippetoe:

Quote:A weak man is not as happy as that same man would be if he were strong. This reality is offensive to some people who would like the intellectual or spiritual to take precedence. It is instructive to see what happens to these very people as their squat strength goes up.

Post: #12

this alpha/beta shit again...

OP, you worry about the wrong things. who cares what's alpha beta or whatever. you've read too much theories about pickup and right now you've got too much chaos inside your head and little/no real life experience. experience is king. game is reference experiences.

when you step up and play this game you will find yourself doing so called 'beta' things and have success. other times you will be so called 'alpha' 100% and you will fail. nothing in pickup is "black & white". like Giovonny said, pickup is one big grey area. pickup has paradoxical and vague nature. pickup is very random at times.

the way you want to look at it is to do your best, show the girl who you are and just let go of the outcome (cause you can never know beforehand). this way you will develop your style that will fit you and that's the most important thing. look, i started thread here and reading it on screen it can be EASILY considered as one big bunch of beta bullshit, but doesn't matter cause i wrote what bring me CONSISTENT results so who cares how cool that thread sounds.

go jeet kune do in PU. take what's useful, iscard the rest, ignore weird labels.

Post: #13

The whole point of the red pill is to allow young men to stop wasting time and effort on the lies society has told them will get the girl. Don't try to feed us the Grade-A Bullshit that you are a better person because you "respect" women, because you are only fooling yourself.

There is no moral high ground here, the vast majority of men want to get laid and will pull any sort of "manipulation" to put the odds in their favor. The only difference between the chump and the champ is the way you try to convince women that you are a winner.

Intentionally being emotionally absent is the same as adorning her with attention. The only difference is that one works and the other doesn't.

Being well read on subjects that interest you is the same as being well read in Cosmo. The only difference is that one works and the other doesn't.

Being physically aggressive is the same as "respecting" her space. The only difference is that one works and the other doesn't.

Working on being charismatic is the same as being thoughtful. The only difference is that one works and the other doesn't.

If you really want it, go out there and make it work.

Post: #14

Roosh says he has been acting alot less "alpha" in EE. Didn't he say "confident beta" was ideal game in Poland.

LostSoul,

I get your point. You don't have to an asshole. You don't have to be a narcissist. You don't have to a loudmouth. You don't have to be wild and crazy.

But, if you wanna get laid, you should be confident, you should be able to hold a conversation with a woman, you should be witty and have a healthy sense of humor, you should present yourself with a polished style. These things will help you alot.

Also, you might consider moving out of the western world, maybe go to asia or eastern europe or africa or somewhere far away from western influence. I think generally speaking these girls require much less of these so called "alpha" characteristics.

And, start targeting girls who are not into all that alpha macho stuff. These are the studious type women, intellectual types, the girls who get good grades, traditional types, country girls, small town girls, rural girls. Look for a more gentle fishbowl, girls who are into the arts, girls who grow flowers, girls who didn't grow up watching Mtv, girls who have not been exposed to all this fake tough guy shit.

They are out there if you look for them.

Don't worry, you don't have to be a raging "alpha". You can be a soft spoken, average joe. Just make sure you are a confident, witty, and well dressed average joe.

However, deep in your heart, I'm sure you know you can get better in certain areas. Deep in your heart, you know you have some weaknesses. Don't except these weaknesses, strive to eliminate them. Become the best man that you can be. You don't have to become a musclehead, cocky asshole but at least try to be the best and most successful "beta" that you can.

Nowadays betas can do everything an alpha can. Look at Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Warren Buffet, and guys like that. Shit, half of the Hollywood movie stars we know are gay. Drake is the most popular rapper. A real alpha who will kill for money and pussy will most likely end up in prison. The caveman days are over. Its not about muscles, its about money. The brain is more powerful then the sword. A beta with a gun is stronger then an unarmed alpha. So, who is the alpha then?

It doesn't matter. All that matters is that you create the lifestyle that you want. Do what you have to do to make that happen. If you are on this forum its probably because you think you can improve. Make those improvements. Get results. Define your own success.

Post: #15

A Playa is a Chameleon..

Post: #16

It's like Robin Williams in the movie "Hook" remembering what is like to be Peter Pan.

I think if you feel strong in life, the confidence and charisma is infectious and everyone will want to be around you or suck your dick.

Post: #17

Great comment, Gio. I could spend ten minutes typing out my own thoughts on this, but I doubt I would have said it better. This sums it up well:

Quote:It doesn't matter. All that matters is that you create the lifestyle that you want. Do what you have to do to make that happen. If you are on this forum its probably because you think you can improve. Make those improvements. Get results. Define your own success.

To me, being alpha is about living the life of my choosing. My style is a lot gentler than most of the guys on this forum; I'm like the Perry Como of game. I find it a lot more effective and a lot more satisfying to go hiking in the Phoenix Mountain Preserve and daygame attractive hikers for two hours than to spend an entire weekend in Snottsdale macking club twits. Part of game is finding your own niche, knowing yourself well enough to know what you really like and then learning what it takes to create that in your life.

Post: #18

Yes, very nice post Giovonny and its exactly how I feel when it comes to this alpha/beta debate. The fact that I was born and raised in a more traditional and less western culture kinda makes things more complicated too.
I really think foreign , non western women is the way to go and maybe thats the easy way out but to me its more about being the right fit, being in the right market for you. Just like in sports some players perform great on one team, then they move and all of a sudden they struggle and performance goes down. The ability is still there, talent still there but other factors like surrounding environment, management, coaching etc just not right for them. And so finding the niche market should be the real key to success.

Post: #19

(08-21-2012 03:10 PM)koche Wrote:  A Playa is a Chameleon..

Yes sir, welcome to the forum!

Adaptability, hyper-awareness, resourcefulness, emotional intelligence, social grace!

The ability to move effortlessly among kings and the common people. I like that shit.

Are you really in Nigeria? I'm in love with a Nigerian woman right now! (You hear that Moma!, we are gonna be cousins!)

Post: #20

(08-21-2012 03:23 PM)Capitán Peligroso Wrote:  To me, being alpha is about living the life of my choosing. My style is a lot gentler than most of the guys on this forum; I'm like the Perry Como of game. I find it a lot more effective and a lot more satisfying to go hiking in the Phoenix Mountain Preserve and daygame attractive hikers for two hours than to spend an entire weekend in Snottsdale macking club twits. Part of game is finding your own niche, knowing yourself well enough to know what you really like and then learning what it takes to create that in your life.

I think the game industry needs to get healthier. We promote guys becoming their best but then we tell them to spend their free time getting drunk in bars. This is a paradox. I have always promoted healthy gaming as I think it is a better strategy for long term growth and success. I think I am going to be more aggressive with my healthy gaming advice. I know alot of guys don't want to spend their weekends chasing girls in clubs until 3 in the morning. There are other ways to do this, much healthier ways in my opinion.

I also like what you said about living the life of your choosing. If you created a life that you enjoy and you are happy, who cares about alpha/beta debates.

Thanks for your comments. I'm inspired to become a leader in this healthy game niche!

Post: #21

(08-21-2012 03:26 PM)LostSoul Wrote:  I really think foreign , non western women is the way to go and maybe thats the easy way out but to me its more about being the right fit, being in the right market for you. Just like in sports some players perform great on one team, then they move and all of a sudden they struggle and performance goes down. The ability is still there, talent still there but other factors like surrounding environment, management, coaching etc just not right for them. And so finding the niche market should be the real key to success.

You're right. Don't try to compete against a culture that doesn't reward your talents. Find a better culture. Do what Roosh has done. Don't try to swim upstream your whole life. Change locations. Be happy around girls who appreciate you. What have you got to lose?

Post: #22

Why do Western women require more "alpha" than non-Western/foreign women? Just curious.

Post: #23

(08-21-2012 03:32 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(08-21-2012 03:10 PM)koche Wrote:  A Playa is a Chameleon..

Yes sir, welcome to the forum!

Adaptability, hyper-awareness, resourcefulness, emotional intelligence, social grace!

The ability to move effortlessly among kings and the common people. I like that shit.

Are you really in Nigeria? I'm in love with a Nigerian woman right now! (You hear that Moma!, we are gonna be cousins!)

Yeah, I'm a born Nigerian

Post: #24

(08-21-2012 04:13 PM)Juan Antonio Wrote:  Why do Western women require more "alpha" than non-Western/foreign women? Just curious.

eastern (european) girls are more familair with their role and place, usually it doesn't take too much of dictator like dominance to set it off right.

western (european) girls are more add, they're more exposed to and aware of new possibilities/ideas/etc, they seem very independent and non needy.. all of that just requires acting much more decisively and unapologetically.

biologically/emotionally women are women so same principles apply to all of them.

Post: #25

(08-21-2012 04:13 PM)Juan Antonio Wrote:  Why do Western women require more "alpha" than non-Western/foreign women? Just curious.

It is for historical reasons.Westerners have been always winners and you have to prove you are a winner an alpha who can stand himself above the competition.They generally want to dominate.A weak man will go to the dogs he is of not strong enough stuff to carry out his obligations as a westerner.The rest of countries are softer.(at some point Romans were the stronger and it still has remained as a vague memory in the western world.Westerners were still strong back then,free barbarians tough to crack.Their women were also tough and refused to succumb).