Post: #26

White English South Africa is the anglosphere typified - good looking, interesting, together guys having to deal with completely charmless, spoilt princesses who are none too attractive.

Post: #27

Thanks for your two cents, Thomas.

My boy from Atlanta who I mentioned having killed it in Durban randomly hit me up today. He said he could make the trip with me. Now that would make it a hell of a lot better. First, this is the guy that put me onto international travel. I became inspired to start traveling abroad after seeing his travel pics and hearing his stories. True renaissance guy. Second, this dude has a totally different take on South Africa because he runs in high social circles there. He happens to know the Mandelas personally.

He said Namibia was his favorite country in southern Africa by far (went there 12 different times). Very developed, stable and clean. Sexy chicks (though Angola has the best apparently) and lots to do outdoors. Some of the world's biggest sand dunes to dune buggy around. No problem with racism in the least. I guess OP experienced an unfortunate isolated case in Swakopmund. That can anywhere I suppose. For me, I'd have to think long and hard to pinpoint a situation where I experienced discrimination while traveling. My experiences have been quite the contrary, but that's just me.

Btw, I looked up the thread where Playa said he detailed his experience in Namibia. One South African Afrikaner poster took great offense to it and had the biggest meltdown I've seen on the forum. Downright hilarious. No way that kind of post would fly in today's forum environment.

My boy summed up South Africa as Jozi (Johannesburg) being the best all-around as far as things to do (probably because of contacts), Cape Town for the women and nightlife, and Durban for the experience of being the man when you enter the club. He said his American status impressed a lot of chicks in Durban. He also said generally in southern Africa people will go out of their way to impress you with their materialistic stuff out of desire to show you the best of SA, and that class was more of an issue than race. Again, that could be due to the circles he runs in.

Also, he said Sandton is where you want to be in Joburg. The best malls, nightlife, and homes are right there. He never even went to downtown Joburg. They actually relocated the Johannesburg Stock Exchange (largest in Africa) from downtown to Sandton. It's supposed to be like Beverly Hills and centrally located. The plan is to rent a car to make it easy to get around. Though they have the unique left of the road driving culture which should be interesting.

Southern Africa sounds dope. Lots to see and do besides game but there's opportunity for that too to some degree. Not the place for raw dog enthusiasts though

Post: #28

(01-20-2014 06:17 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  Bumping this because I'm looking into a Motherland trip this year. Never been to southern Africa, only east and north. How much time will I need to hit SA, Mozambique, and Namibia? Also, is Botswana worth it? What up about the trek up to Victoria Falls? I hear it actually has good infrastructure and is one of the developed African economies, though a very expensive place. What's the deal with those "groups" where you camp and move around? That sounds like it could be a lot of fun. Which companies do you arrange that with?

How are flights within the region? What's the most efficient and cost-effective way to get around? I think this is where it can get really pricey. What's crazy to me is that flying to Johannesburg from DC is cheaper than flying from Sao Paulo or Buenos Aires, yet takes twice as long. It's only 9 hour flight from the latter cities to SA. DC is 16-18 hours with a stop. It's even cheaper than flying from within African countries or Europe.

Not sure how much South Africa would offer on the game tip though my boy did say he cleaned up in Durban with Indian chicks. Like nonstop action. This is a brother from Atlanta who travels the world on the upscale tip and I've seen him operate in other places, so I take his word for it.

Some good advice so far. To specifically answer some of your questions:

Flights:
Really only South African Airways (http://www.flysaa.com), which is completely Joburg-centric, for regional flights. You can also try the local BA franchise, Comair (http://www.ba.com and select South Africa as your home country). Regional flights are ridiculously expensive because of lack of competition. Flights within SA can be reasonable. Joburg airport is big and pretty much on the standard of an equivalent sized European airport. Just be a bit weary of jacketed people offering to carry your bags or give directions. They are tolerated by the airport authorities as a make work project, but apparently can become aggressive re tips. They are hustlers, essentially. Just ignore them or more politely mumble "no thank you" and they'll F off.

Other Intercity Transport:
Intercity buses can be OK, but only use good companies with acceptable road safety histories . Try out Intercape (http://www.intercape.co,za). They operate within SA and between SA and other countries. Haven't traveled on them for more than 10 years, and heard that they have become annoyingly religious (the owner seems to have inherited the company and easy money and lack of class seems to have resulted in an odd attitude to aggressively promoting evangelical Christian values on a bus service. Very bizarre.). Also look at the local Greyhound franchise (Better buses and service than Greyhound in the States IMO. I have traveled on both, though some time back). Also Translux, though I would be a bit weary re road safety here.
I would not use communal minibus taxi's for intercity trips. They have absurdly bad safety records. Multiple people being killed while travelling long distances in them is an everyday occurrence. Drivers are under pressure from owners and drive while too tired, or do not know how to drive properly in the first place. Try them for inner city trips as an experience, but avoid for inter city trips.

Inner City transport:
Ideally you should rent a car. Metered taxi's are comically expensive. More , much more, per km/unit of time than Manhattan were I've heard taxi licences can cost $500,000 a license. I can't make sense of the economics. There's a decent bus service in Cape Town, but look, if you're seriously gaming girls outside of backpackers circles you're going to have to have a car or spend mega bucks on taxis at night. It's OK if you're a girl because you're the gamee, not the gamer and expect the guy to have a car. But as a guy you'd have to really be something (and not just be imagining it) for a girl to be happy driving you here and there. Car rentals can be cheap, but to get the cheap deals you will need to be able to drive a manual transmission car (which you really should be able to anyway), and accept what to Americans would be an underpowered subcompact. Driving is on the left. Drivers are aggressive.

Girls:
I have a more favourable view of SA girls than most. Lot's of hot girls, many of them approachable. I'm white and mostly move within this circle, but there are hot girls of all races. I see that you are a black American. Historically black girls in Southern Africa have had a major problem with obesity, but younger women now face increased (appropriate) pressure to be slim, so you are more likely now to find a slim black girl than 20 years ago. Going too far into it is beyond the scope of this post, but I'd say that as a black American you will have the best luck with the coloured (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloured) SA population. "Coloured" in SA is not a slur, but really a racial group. Commonly referred to as "mixed-race", but my opinion is that this definition is critically misleading. Anyway, this group is probably the one most open to black American culture. e.g. If a generic American rapper like, I don't know, Snoop Didddy, tours SA the audience will often be mostly coloured with a few white people and even fewer black people. I think a black American would probably find a better connection here than with white or black South Africans. My opinion. Take it for what it's worth.

Post: #29

(01-21-2014 04:46 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  Girls:
I have a more favourable view of SA girls than most. Lot's of hot girls, many of them approachable. I'm white and mostly move within this circle, but there are hot girls of all races. I see that you are a black American. Historically black girls in Southern Africa have had a major problem with obesity, but younger women now face increased (appropriate) pressure to be slim, so you are more likely now to find a slim black girl than 20 years ago. Going too far into it is beyond the scope of this post, but I'd say that as a black American you will have the best luck with the coloured (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloured) SA population. "Coloured" in SA is not a slur, but really a racial group. Commonly referred to as "mixed-race", but my opinion is that this definition is critically misleading. Anyway, this group is probably the one most open to black American culture. e.g. If a generic American rapper like, I don't know, Snoop Didddy, tours SA the audience will often be mostly coloured with a few white people and even fewer black people. I think a black American would probably find a better connection here than with white or black South Africans. My opinion. Take it for what it's worth.

Preciate the input. Seems we have quite a few forum guys in South Africa. Where in the country do you guys live? How'd you get into game and find the Roosh forum? What's the hookup culture like there? Is ONS culture common like it is in the west?

I've smashed chicks of all races and do quite well with white chicks. Don't really give a fuck about race when it comes to the boner test. I've seen coloured chicks from South Africa and I could see relating to them more within the context of SA's unique culture. Some of them look amazingly good because of so much mixing of all types of people (Malays, Indonesians, Black Africans, Afrikaners). I've always been of the opinion that mixed-race people tend to be better looking on average. However, some of the baddest (hot) white girls have come from the Afrikaner community in South Africa. Charlize Theron, Candice Swanepoel (arguably one of the hottest chicks in the world right now), etc.

Thanks again for the intel.

Post: #30

South Africa is dope.

I much prefer Joburg to Cape Town, the people are more open and friendly and to my mind there is lot more nature and cool stuff to see in that area of the country. (the kruger, mozambique, pretoria, drakensburg, swaziland, natal etc)

Most of the wealthier, northern parts of Joburg are pretty nice, lots of trees, huge houses and parks. I don't even mind the more ghetto parts around the city. Thing about Joburg is that they do not get so many visitors there, so you will get a lot of hospitality, doors will open for you! As a white (or black) person in Cape Town, this effect is much less noticable.

South Africa is very cheap, and the food is excellent. But I wouldn't imagine anyone would go there primarily for the girls. Regular white English South African dudes I know seem to really struggle. "Poppies" (Afrikaaner girls) seem not to be so interested, and black girls are perceived as a big downgrade to the point almost no white dudes except the most radical go there. And white English girls are the most average in the anglosphere to my mind. Good men date down here more than anywhere else I've been in the anglosphere.

As a traveler though, your exotic factor will work in your favour. This would not be especially signifigant in Cape Town as they see a lot of travelers there, and definitely it will work like a charm in Joburg and be through the roof in Durban, as Hencredible mentioned regarding his friend.

Post: #31

(01-21-2014 05:05 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  

(01-21-2014 04:46 PM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  Girls:
I have a more favourable view of SA girls than most. Lot's of hot girls, many of them approachable. I'm white and mostly move within this circle, but there are hot girls of all races. I see that you are a black American. Historically black girls in Southern Africa have had a major problem with obesity, but younger women now face increased (appropriate) pressure to be slim, so you are more likely now to find a slim black girl than 20 years ago. Going too far into it is beyond the scope of this post, but I'd say that as a black American you will have the best luck with the coloured (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloured) SA population. "Coloured" in SA is not a slur, but really a racial group. Commonly referred to as "mixed-race", but my opinion is that this definition is critically misleading. Anyway, this group is probably the one most open to black American culture. e.g. If a generic American rapper like, I don't know, Snoop Didddy, tours SA the audience will often be mostly coloured with a few white people and even fewer black people. I think a black American would probably find a better connection here than with white or black South Africans. My opinion. Take it for what it's worth.

Preciate the input. Seems we have quite a few forum guys in South Africa. Where in the country do you guys live? How'd you get into game and find the Roosh forum? What's the hookup culture like there? Is ONS culture common like it is in the west?

I've smashed chicks of all races and do quite well with white chicks. Don't really give a fuck about race when it comes to the boner test. I've seen coloured chicks from South Africa and I could see relating to them more within the context of SA's unique culture. Some of them look amazingly good because of so much mixing of all types of people (Malays, Indonesians, Black Africans, Afrikaners). I've always been of the opinion that mixed-race people tend to be better looking on average. However, some of the baddest (hot) white girls have come from the Afrikaner community in South Africa. Charlize Theron, Candice Swanepoel (arguably one of the hottest chicks in the world right now), etc.

Thanks again for the intel.

No problem. Glad you appreciated the input. In my circles it's mostly social circle game. I live in a smaller city. One night stands would be more common in bigger places like Cape Town. You won't regret coming to South/Southern Africa. I think a lot of RooshV types would have a much better time here than they may initially think. Can't remember how I found RooshV. Was quite a while back. It's definitely a great resource, Maybe next time I'm on Cape Town I'll try to arrange a RooshV meetup. See ho many people bite.

Mid December to mid January would be the best time to visit if you like lot's of action. Everyone is in holiday mood, at the beach, partying etc. Basically Christmas and Summer holidays rolled into one. Good vibes.

Post: #32

Thanks to everyone for re-opening this thread on S. Africa. My dad has been there multiple times on business and ever since he brought photo's of the locations he has visited the country has interested me greatly.
The 3 cities which interest me the most is Durban, Pretoria and CapeTown. Can you guys comment on safety? As a white guy would I feel comfortable or be safe wandering around the club districts at night (say 2am) looking to chat up local girls or grab some late night grub (as I frequently do in American/European cities) or it is not advised and one has to travel by cab everywhere? Thanks.

Post: #33

Time flies, been 4 years since I wrote that data sheet. My least enjoyable trip. Reading the responses to HC thread bump sounds like I went to a completely different country. I wonder how many of the people raving about SA are Black?

But I digress..

@HC, I did the whole semi back packing(followed the Lonely Planet itenary to a T) thing on that trip so my guess is that your milage will vary with the locals if you go the complete opposite than I did and go high end. I left my suit and gators back home so I have no idea wether being suited up would have made a difference. SA is the largest economy in Africa so I reckon there must be Black Africans with crazy long pockets , I cant imaged all of them being treated like shit like I was.

I am glad I made it to Zambia, made the whole trip worth it. Everybody there was cool like cocumbers and I was treated like family by the locals. No bullshit, no drama like in Cape town and Namibia. Also, a ton of those organized tours(contiki sp?) Terminate at livingston/Victoria Falls so you'll get your pick of the litter.

It was refreshing for people to want to take your money again, it really gets old trying to prove constantly that you arent a local in order to go inside some shitty bar.

Another thing about public transportation, it is nothing like in South America, where you can basically take a combination of buses between any two dots on a map. I had to literally hitchhike between the border of Zambia to Gabarone. Also, buses between Windoek and Swakonpond ran like twice a week. Renting a car might be a good investment if you value your time at all.

Now before some local Afrikaner gets butt hurt and flames me again. A quick disclaimer;

I went more than 4 years ago, so my data sheet is more than likely outdated. Things probably have changed for the better. The World Cup, came and went and I dont remember reading anything on the media about non-White athletes being mistreated.

Personally, I don’t think I ever going back to SA unless I am US embasador or something...If I am going to sit on a plane for 18+ hours, I rather go to Thailand/Philippines.

P.S. I didn't find White SA or Black SA chick nothing to write home about. All the hot White chicks I saw in SA weren't locals. Namibia on the other hand, had lots of cuties.

Good luck on your trip.

Post: #34

^Man, your posts are hilarious sometimes. I was rollin' by that irate Afrikaner's post to your Namibia recap.

Your SA trip sounds like how my Ecuador, Peru, and Chile leg was during my tour through South America. I knew those countries were going to be a lot less developed and the local chicks weren't going to be to my liking, so I just played the hostel circuit and checked out a shit ton of nature. It was fun. Real laid back and got to meet cool people and some okay backpacker chicks.

My boy said that he prefers southern Africa during our summer because it's not as dry and dusty, only cool/cold at night. I'm cool with that.

Post: #35

(01-21-2014 08:29 PM)TripleG Wrote:  Thanks to everyone for re-opening this thread on S. Africa. My dad has been there multiple times on business and ever since he brought photo's of the locations he has visited the country has interested me greatly.
The 3 cities which interest me the most is Durban, Pretoria and CapeTown. Can you guys comment on safety? As a white guy would I feel comfortable or be safe wandering around the club districts at night (say 2am) looking to chat up local girls or grab some late night grub (as I frequently do in American/European cities) or it is not advised and one has to travel by cab everywhere? Thanks.

Pretoria is becoming one of the safer cities in SA. Crime has dropped about 30% in since 2000, according to some statistics. I think it had something to do with a lot of high-level politicians getting robbed, because the police force suddenly started getting bigger and more visible after that.

Hatfield is the party district of Pretoria and has pretty damn high security that is partly funded by the university right next door (they don't want their partying students getting raped/robbed/murdered). There is still some theft going on but otherwise 2am Hatfield is pretty safe.

There are other various bars/pubs in Pretoria that people frequent, and they are generally safe, although bar fights are common in some places. Actually, at 2am in the better parts of Pretoria I'd be more worried about drunk drivers on the road than anything else, some horrific accidents occur at that time. South Africans have a love of speeding and bending the rules that combined with alcohol can wreak terrible consequences.

Obviously there are dodgy areas of Pretoria, but even the 'ghetto' areas like Sunnyside are much tamer in comparison to Johannesburg's dodgy areas eg. Hillbrow.

So I think Pretoria is relatively okay in terms of safety, provided that you remain cautious, mildly paranoid, have a backup plan in case you are robbed, and watch out for drunken drivers (have a good health insurance though, in case someone does ram you in the middle of the night.)

That said, Pretoria's night life is generally considered to be very mediocre, especially compared to Johannesburg which is an hour away on the highway. Unsurprisingly, drunken driving accidents on that highway are rather common, as Pretoria people drive to Johannesburg to party and then drive home drunk.

You will also probably find the Hatfield club 'district' to be laughably small. And it might become smaller because a lot of business are moving into Hatfield, it could very well transform into a business district within the next decade.

Another minus point regarding Pretoria's night life is that it attracts high school kids, especially in Hatfield, which can make for rather childish proceedings. This is especially true when the university closes in late June (winter recess) and December (summer recess).

The last minus point I want to mention, is that women frequently go out in packs at night usually with a couple of guys, and that night venues tend to be table venues - people order their drinks and then go sit with their group around a table. In dance venues, they dance in a circle. Something like what Roosh describes in Bang Columbia. It makes it difficult to chat up someone. I'm not much into night game but the few times I tried it I'd sit at the bar and then open up chicks coming up to order some drinks, that seem to be the only way to do it. But then they are eager to return to the group or else someone from the group will come cockblock you, I found it tiresome.

I can definitely see how being a foreigner would be a big plus though, especially if you're American. Most South Africans love American culture.

Post: #36

Been doing some travelling locally this December (Durban this week and Namibia the first two of December).

See a decent amount of cute coloured (mulato) and white girls. Banged two pretty hot coloured girls in Windhoek both from day game. Verdict remains the same on Namibia - great place to visit with some quality but too small to be anytging close to a pussy paradise.

Staying in Umhlanga (North of Durban) atm. Standard holiday crowds. If you love black women Durban in December is pretty insane and a must

Post: #37

I love the South African accent on women. An ex was from there she grew up there then came to the UK after the brown stuff started to hit the fan in 1992. There are lots of white south Africans in the UK who have left now. Anyhow I don't know if all South African women are dirty and good in bed as never had the pleasure - but she was. There's a real poshness to the accent, in some ways a throwback to old 1930s English but with a NZ/Aussie twang to it.

Not sure if South Africa is now impossible to safely visit since it is turning Venezeula