Post: #1

I like to play devil's advocate and I expect this thread to get locked but I've come to realise the following about "game" and seduction:

1. Looks, money and status trump game
Game helps curb a lot of the social awkwardness and nervousness of your average joe or unattractive guy. And this alone can improve their shots of getting laid. However, if women had to chose from a 300 lbs hairy guy running Mystery Method or any other game or a guy who looked like Brad Pitt they are going to pick Brad Pitt. Not to say that women don't have types when it comes to men, one girl's ugly bastard is another girl's prince charming. However, I guarantee 99% of the time the girl will chose the male model over the PUA.

2. Openers can be simple
I find it's best to just open with a simple "hey how's it going?". And if she's interested just to escalate and be direct. Of course I run night game which is different than day game. A girl will only listen to long, strange opinion openers if she is actually into you otherwise she will think you are odd or give up trying to hear you.

3. You can't build attraction
Either she finds you attractive or not. Being really indirect, negging her, etc. isn't going to make her change her mind about you.

4. You can't avoid creepy status if you are into game
That's it accept it, get over it. You will be seen as the creepy guy to the girls who don't like you but you will be seen as the mysterious stranger who swept her off her feet if she's into you.

5. It is a numbers game
Eventually you have to do X number of approaches to get Y number of lays. That's how it is.

6. Being an asshole isn't the ultimate key to success
We think it is because we stop doing favours for girls who are not attracted to us but want to use us. When we do this we gain confidence and they gain some respect for us because of this. I have a friend who buys girls drinks and still gets laid, he's good looking that's why. If I did the same I would just waste money because I have an ugly face. Negs do not work at all. It's useless to tell a girl to take her hands off the merchandise if she's touching you, instead escalate physically on her. At some point go caveman and pull her in for the kiss.

7. Not Everyone Can Get 9s and 10s
No matter how tight your game is if you have an ugly face there is a cut off. If you really want 9s and 10s and are ugly I say the best shot is to get a cool job like bouncer, DJ, business owner, lead singer, etc. Your money and social status will be correlated to quality of girl you can get if you are ugly.

8. The best way to spend $2000 is not on a bootcamp
The best way to spend it is on gym membership, nice clothes, clubs, etc. Just work on your looks and do a lot of approaches.

9. You need to be direct at some point
You will get friendzoned otherwise or not know if she is DTF. Here's what I do: I go out make eye contact with a girl I like if she holds it, I approach her ask her what's up or whatever, if she responds positively I start touching her lightly and if she returns touching I pull her in for the kiss. I never yet had a girl turn her head because I pull her in and I know she's into me.

10. Don't waste your time on girls playing hard to get
You sound bitter most of the time with your witty comebacks and she isn't going to sleep with you because you were witty or funny. Same as friendzone just walk away from it. If she is too busy to hang out then ignore her.

11. You aren't a fucking monkey there to entertain her

12. Peacocking usually makes you look like a total clown

13. Be a normal socially well adjusted guy before even starting game and don't be obese

14. If you want hotter girls dress nicer, get a better haircut and work out

Gee you might be saying this tjames guy is a fucking AFC beta chump if he thinks this. And 6 months ago I would agree with you and say "geeze what a faggot". And I am sure I will get 100s of replys from the guys who are having sex with movie actresses and get 1000 lays and will say everything I said was dead wrong. But this is from personal experience and this is what works for me. From my discussions with others they come to the same conclusion at some point.

In either case ready for my ban now. Had a decent time here and I hope this strikes a chord with at least someone.

Further reading:
I recommend 60 years of challenge or Aaron Sleazy's Minimal Game. And you only really need one or two books. Don't buy a shit ton of books you learn more by approaching than by reading all day. If you are broke I recommend a site called Good Looking Loser.

And of course Bang and Day Bang, but I try to go for SNLs more than numbers. I also like to ask her during the same time I am talking to her would she like to get a coffee or something during the daytime. And if the logistics are bad get a number and setup a date beforehand.

Let the hate begin...

Post: #2

These aren't "facts." This is a strange kind of game denialism. You seem to be pushing back against "PUA"-style game (Game 1.0), that most of this forum summarily rejects. I'm not sure why you're inviting "hate." Are you trying to create drama?

This isn't your first complaining or PUA-Hate style thread. It sounds like you're still a newb to game--you're using a weird cocktail of old methods and new wisdom--and you're getting frustrated:

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Post: #3

I don't know if I really call this game-denialism. Isn't it basically just being honest?

Number 3 is only half true. You definitely have control over a certain amount of the attraction a woman feels for you.

I basically agree with this form of game "denialism". I feel like we need a word for people who agree with the sentiment of the OP, but who aren't white knight betas.

Game realism? Fuck I don't know. A lot of pua stuff deserves to be bashed, but at the same time, there are many truths you can use to get laid.

Post: #4

From my experience I can say that all your 14 points are very true.

Good post.

Post: #5

I find it a little arrogant to state these things as facts, when they are only mere perceptions of yours. How do you expect to be open about something, when in your mind you've come to a final conclusion?
I do agree with you to some extent, but I still wouldnt say that we are agreeing on facts. It might just be our current impression of things, based on how good our game is or how well we scored over the last few months.

Post: #6

I think those are the reality.

You meet a girl and she is not into a guy like you. (we judge girls based on looks and girls don't do that? -> one of PUAs' claims) So you can flip this over by running some game? aka running your mouth?
The girl already knows whether she likes you. all you have to do is not to fuck it up from that point.

Post: #7

Quote:3. You can't build attraction
Either she finds you attractive or not. Being really indirect, negging her, etc. isn't going to make her change her mind about you.

This one's not true at all. Just give me 5 minutes to talk away my ugly face