Post: #1

I just read this article today, it was posted on some aggregators: http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/bo...ks_kolbert

And for me it is like another puzzle piece to understand America. I always wondered why Americans are so lovey dovey with their parents. For instance, when I was in Cincinnati I saw a father and son hug and cry and tell each other that they love each other.. I read comments on line from guys that are not ashamed to admit that they shed a tear over some bullshit scene from a hollywood movie in a YouTube video. And I wonder: Who are those wimps?

I still think Americans are awesome people, at least the ones I've had a pleasure to meet. (The other week I've been working with a guy that flew in from Portland and I remember thinking: This guy could outgame me and any of my friends and steal our girlfriends if he wanted to.) But then you have people at Rooshv and Cheateau Heartiste constantly complaining about the women in America..

So there you go. This article is one possible answer: American men are raised to be spoiled wimps while at the same time American girls are taught the feminist agenda. And then the girls work harder, they achieve more, and they meet guys that are weak all the time.

Of course they lose respect, of course they turn bitchy, of course guys like me and everyone else in this forum don't care for them anymore, then they turn fat, or whatever..

I'm probably putting too many ingredients in my explanation soup (and it's just a hobby for me thinking about it), but I do believe in a holistic approach to explain how the world works.

So yeah, if you have kids, don't let them become entitled weak little bitches. If your kids fuck up, punish them, slap them even, just don't buy them a new Playstation game.

I am sure most of the forum members would be great parents. But the word needs to be spread.

For example I'd fucking punish my son so hard that he'd wish he was a child-laborer in some banana republic if he came up with the idea to call child-support, just because I don't want to sue his school, because he failed a test..

Just saying.

Good read.

Post: #2

Dude, when I was doing plumber work with my neighbor a few days ago this lady he knew drives next to him and tells him some crazy shit. Her daughter raised her cellphone bill to 8 thousand bucks.

I tell ya man. My folks would wreck me if I fucked the bill up that much.

This country is a bit scary to have kids too. Some stats say that the average cost to raise a child is around 230k in this day of age. I unno man, but kids are a pain in the ass unlesd someones parents skills are on lock.

Post: #3

"I tell ya man. My folks would wreck me if I fucked the bill up that much."

Rosca, your parents shouldn't be paying your bill at all

Post: #4

You're right mech.

Hmm. Im stuck on a cellphone contract with em now. Is there a optimal way for me to independently pay my own cellphone bill? I'm broke but like I am willung to learn how to lean towards independence from em.

I'm not spoiled, but I do believe now is a good time to get my independence skill up so I dont have to constantly mooch off them.

Post: #5

True dat on the spoiled-rotten bit.

A few days ago, I was at a major American airport and observed a tableau that would never transpire elsewhere.

This (white-) American mother (appeared to be single) and her 13- or 14-year-old daughter were at the ticket counter in front of me. It was clear that there was some sort of problem. I gathered that the mother was getting the daughter onto a flight. The daughter did not approve of some kind of arrangement mom was making on her behalf and kept repeating--in the absolutely loudest, public, whiny, complaining, semi-crying voice:

"It's not fair. Moooooom! It's not fair. It's Just. Not. Fair."

This loud-ass tantrum went on for, I'd estimate, 10 minutes. It was reverberating in the relatively empty area. The crazy part is that the girl was acting like she was eight years old, when she looked to be clearly in her teens. The mom didn't so much as check her with a shush gesture. She just took it, demeaning herself, and her daughter, in the process.

Finally, the ticket lady said to the mom: "can you please take this someplace else?" I nodded in approval, but the satisfaction was short-lived when I realized this is what we're encountering in bars, clubs, cafe, and streets across America. Entitled little bitches that never have to grow up, kept in an infantalized state by a society in which long-standing social structures--gender, parenting, sexuality--have been forced into an unnatural state. The natural checks on unacceptable behavior (especially by privileged girls) have been rendered illegal or taboo.

We're fucked.

Post: #6

(07-04-2012 11:07 PM)Rosca Wrote:  You're right mech.

Hmm. Im stuck on a cellphone contract with em now. Is there a optimal way for me to independently pay my own cellphone bill? I'm broke but like I am willung to learn how to lean towards independence from em.

I'm not spoiled, but I do believe now is a good time to get my independence skill up so I dont have to constantly mooch off them.

Here's my cell phone thread. Explains it all
/thread-10395.html

Post: #7

(07-04-2012 01:15 PM)muc Wrote:  I always wondered why Americans are so lovey dovey with their parents. For instance, when I was in Cincinnati I saw a father and son hug and cry and tell each other that they love each other

What the fuck? I've always thought it was "creepy" when I see dads being like that with their sons. Leave that shit to moms and daughters you know? If I ever have a son, I'll show him tough love. I've never told my dad I love him and probably never will.

I can't really explain this. I guess parents are just pussies now days. The article says something about a father telling his son 5 times to take a shower and he STILL didn't listen, but went to play a video game. My brain wouldn't have even attempted to do that with my dad when I was younger. I was scared of him like most sons are.

Post: #8

(07-04-2012 01:15 PM)muc Wrote:  I always wondered why Americans are so lovey dovey with their parents. For instance, when I was in Cincinnati I saw a father and son hug and cry and tell each other that they love each other.

Sorry to hear that this city left you with that image.

Post: #9

Americans are desperate to be liked. When an American man's efforts are met with the least bit resistance, he loses his resolve, and resorts to placating to defuse conflict. You see it in the way he deals with his wife, and in the way he deals with kids. He cares too much about whether they are haaappy or not. When he sees his wife upset or his child crying, even though he knows he made the right choice, he can't just say "tough shit" to himself. He takes it upon himself to be responsible for *their* emotional state, a total fool's errand.

I'm always disgusted by the way American men relate to children. They'll start babbling like a baby and just make an utter fool of himself. They'll put on 'kids' music' or go to 'kids' themed' venues, which are often just over-marketed consumerist crap. You don't need 'pokemon' to bond with your kids.

Whenever I talk to kids, especially boys, I like to get competitive with them, make them challenges and bets. I'll even pretend fight them, and they love it - like this





More wrestling than striking though . They have so much energy, and just have that natural, fiercely competitive streak that most of the grown-ups in their life have tried to repress.

Post: #10

I haven't read through this thread, but I will say that I'm appalled by how many people (both men and women) are financially dependent off their parents well into their late 20's, sometimes even early 30's.

I think it's probably much worse in California, with all the "trustafarians", hippy and hipster rich kids who fuck off, but live off the trust funds their rich grandparents set up for them. My old neighbor from the dorms who I still talk to occasionally has been in college for 9 years straight, completely supported by his parents, they pay for his apartment, bought him a new 2011 Civic, pay for his cell phone, give him a credit card, etc.

Ofcourse the kid is a total fuck up that has had everything handed to him his whole life and has no framework of how to support himself, he's lucky though because his parents are loaded, they're crazy old, and he's an only child that stands to inherit it all.

Post: #11

(07-04-2012 11:24 PM)houston Wrote:  

(07-04-2012 01:15 PM)muc Wrote:  I always wondered why Americans are so lovey dovey with their parents. For instance, when I was in Cincinnati I saw a father and son hug and cry and tell each other that they love each other

What the fuck? I've always thought it was "creepy" when I see dads being like that with their sons. Leave that shit to moms and daughters you know? If I ever have a son, I'll show him tough love. I've never told my dad I love him and probably never will.

I can't really explain this. I guess parents are just pussies now days. The article says something about a father telling his son 5 times to take a shower and he STILL didn't listen, but went to play a video game. My brain wouldn't have even attempted to do that with my dad when I was younger. I was scared of him like most sons are.

Kids are soft. American kids need some tough love Jack Arnold parenting.

Post: #12

(07-05-2012 12:06 AM)basilransom Wrote:  I'm always disgusted by the way American men relate to children. They'll start babbling like a baby and just make an utter fool of himself. They'll put on 'kids' music' or go to 'kids' themed' venues, which are often just over-marketed consumerist crap. You don't need 'pokemon' to bond with your kids.

This really pisses me off too. When I see dudes talking baby talk I always imagine the kid thinking 'who is this clown?'

Kids' development is really held back when adults don't relate to them as proper people. When talking to my young relatives I'm always amazed at how many insightful things they have to say when treated as equals. You just have to listen and show that you take them seriously (without being overly indulgent of course, you still have to call them out on bullshit and can tease relentlessly as long as it's good-natured).

Kids have more interesting things to say than a lot of the lame adults I run into who have chosen to deal with the world they live in by narrowing down their horizons and retreat into their comfort zone.

As for playing rough that's probably why boys with brothers are often more confident. They're used to fighting and aren't scared of competition and confrontation and throwing a few punches now and again. A lot of SWPL parents discourage their kids from fighting or showing physical aggression which makes boys grow up gormless and scared of confrontation. If all their male role models are beta dudes who use passive aggression and confront everything indirectly, that's how they behave when they grow up - with all the pent-up frustration that it engenders.

It also contributes to boys' increasingly poor performance at school - any sign of aggression is brutally suppressed and they have to sit still all day and play nice like a bunch of girls.

Post: #13

I agree with the general sentiment in this thread, but I don't think suppressing aggression is a bad thing. I was a target of a bully for a year and a half, and I would have vastly preferred the teachers doing something over it rather than me being forced to eventually snap and kick his ass. Even if you successfully defend yourself, it's still a horribly stressful and demeaning experience that I wouldn't wish to anyone.

As for my brother, I don't think it was particularly helpful as far as learning confrontation goes. We did fight sometimes, sure, but I think that having a sister (too) would have helped me to relate to girls at least a bit.

Everything about kids being spoiled in this thread is correct. But I don't think discouraging aggression and preferring having brothers are the solutions.

Post: #14

(07-05-2012 12:41 AM)Juan Antonio Wrote:  Kids are soft. American kids need some tough love Jack Arnold parenting.

Maybe, but remember that it was the generation raised on Jack Arnold parenting that, in turn, raised this generation of useless kids. They grew up feeling that daddy didn't love/get/pay enough attention to them, so they over-compensated with their own kids.

There's got to be some middle ground where you can be emotionally available to your kids, but not spoiling them. The big thing is which way approval runs. Like the article pointed out, there's so many parents who want their kids to approve of them when it should be the other way around.