Post: #26

Fuck fancy cars, fuck mortgages, fuck a big screen TV...

Post: #27

I think being a minimalist gives you the courage to do the kind of work you actually want. In the end, doing work you enjoy will end up making you more money if you're passionate and smart about it.

If you're addicted to an expensive, consumerist lifestyle you're unlikely to quit your desk job and commit to doing what you really like. It's just too risky.

If you share an apartment with cool friends downtown, cook healthy meals, and bike around, your expenses should be minimal and you should easily be able to build a safety cushion where you can quit your job. You can also sustain yourself on a lower income, if your passion doesn't end up rewarding you a lot financially.

Post: #28

My only goal with money is to make "fuck you" money.

Post: #29

(07-07-2012 05:12 AM)cool Wrote:  My only goal with money is to make "fuck you" money.

Surprisingly little is needed to get girls. I know a personal trainer making 20k a year who has a hot wife and a doctor making 200k a year who is spending a lot of time learning game.

Post: #30

I'm finding lately that the more time I spend away from my material possessions, the happier I am, to an extent. Recently, I've had a lot of people lecture me on the importance of "being careful with your cash." To these people, I carefully explain that they're morons, and victims of a consumer oriented society. I only find that the stuff that makes me a better person - ie; my workout gear, my kindle/physical books so I can read, a guitar/notepad & pen to vent my creativity - are the only possessions that really give me actual pleasure, though I could probably live without most of it if I had to. At this point, the car I own has been busted and undriveable for close to a year now, and that has never caused me any issues. It's amazing how, when you lose something you thought was an integral part of your life, it quickly dawns on you that it really isn't important at all. I've been considering an experiment where I book a flight to Europe or South East Asia or something, with absolutely minimal possessions in my suitcase and the bare essential amount of money to burn, just to see how long I can last living an absolutely minimalist lifestyle, and whether I can still have fun while doing it. Of course, there are still some things I'd like to have with me, like some high quality, comfortable, well fitted clothes that I know won't fall apart on me, and I feel good in. Though, being the youngest in a just-slightly-above-poor family, I've always had to deal with shitty hand-me-downs and the like anyway, so high-end clothes aren't a huge priority - just something that makes life a more comfortable experience, and makes me feel safe in the knowledge that I won't have to blow more cash on threads that I otherwise wouldn't have budgeted for. Looks like I'm probably going to end up with nothing but the custom tailored clothes on my back.

Post: #31

(07-02-2012 03:31 PM)Spartan Wrote:  Anyone else here make the lifestyle choice to avoid capitalism and materialism?

I want to make the simple point that capitalism is not what you want to avoid.

To achieve lifestyle choice, capitalism is your friend.

In a communist system:
- you get the lifestyle that the government designs for you
- you probably don't have travel privileges - you need to apply for an exit visa and give a reason why you want to leave the country
- you keep providing labor as long as you're physically able

In a capitalist system:
- you make your own choices about how you want to spend, and what your lifestyle is
- once you've saved enough capital, it can earn returns for you - vs the communist system of being required to trade labor for necessary items in life

Capital is not perishable. If it's properly managed, it can provide for you over your entire lifespan.

What you want to avoid is consumerism and materialism (things you did mention elsewhere in your post).

Those things are just one kind of choice under capitalism. You still have control and the freedom to choose them or not.

Post: #32

(07-02-2012 03:31 PM)Spartan Wrote:  There still are places in the world where its possible and I'm not the only one who choses slower paced locations. Whether its rural America, provincial Latin America, or small town Africa, there are still places that value a simple life. Anyone else here make the lifestyle choice to avoid capitalism and materialism?

You don't have to look that far...what about Southern Europe ?

I know how they phuked up big time with their debt crisis, but on a personal level, most people I have got to know live a very modest life. No fancy mansions, fuel thirsty SUVs, no plasma tv shit, no gadgets etc...

Most vacation in their home country...they enjoy food and wine in the evenings at a restaurant and the social contacts and cultural life.

Materialism as it is lived in most European countries is ok by me. Since the state takes away roughly 50% of your income, there is not much money for luxury, anyway.
In return, you get almost free health care , schooling, social benefits, even free university etc, depending on the country. A much better deal than living in Russia or Africa. I'm sorry to say but your ideas are very naive.


It's the American type of capitalism and over the top materialism that is flawed, but capitalism itself is not bad if it is balanced.

Post: #33

delete

Post: #34

I am going to attempt to address the bolded without sounding like a complete Wall Street Dick... Which I will. This is also why many people are going to find my writing either Aggresive/angry versus straight to the point and direct which is what it is meant to be.

Flaw 1. "Surprisingly little is needed" Okay great. Have you ever made money? No. Why is this important? I have been DIRT POOR LIVING UNDER A BRIDGE BEFORE. You can get girls when you are poor but the quality is LOWER. IF you think that anyone one this forum could not pull a better girl with $1M in the bank you're bat shit crazy.

Flaw 2. This tacitly implies that you are a slave for pussy. This is a terrible mindset. I would rather see 5 figures hit my bank account than see some "hot chick" in my bed in the morning. Women are like cocaine. Once you hook up a couple times that thrill is gone and it has no long-term value. Waking up every day and knowing you DO NOT GIVE A SHIT IF YOU GET FIRED is a much better way to live. Your personal trainer story is downright a great example. If that dude gets fired he is fucked. What if he drops a weight stack on his neck, yeah okay that "wife" and him are going to have a "great time".

Flaw 3. You ASSUME this doctor is FORCED to spend money on shit like game or what have you. This is again some nonsensical group think as people are unable to distinguish between HARDWORK and DISCIPLINE. There is a HUGE difference between the two. Hardwork is learning game ground up, talking to people, making money at work, grind grind grind. Discipline is the act of NOT doing something. You don't text immediately, you DONT SPEND YOUR MONEY, you don't overdrink. If you have both, getting CASH is the obvious winning choice.

Everyone should "forego materialism" in the sense of getting trapped in the jones's. But no one on here should ever put themselves in a dangerous financial position. There is a dramatic difference.

I've read a lot your posts (speaking to OP) and it pains me to see someone who is SMART throwing away a LUCRATIVE career just to chase pussy? Why not do BOTH?

Why not pick up a hot girl whose dad is the CEO OF IBM
Why not pick up a hot girl who is a head chef?
Why not make money, stay fit, and get girls ALL AT ONCE?

Life is about maxing out everything, there is nothing more disgusting than waking up one day, looking in the mirror and realizing you didnt max out your potential. That's LIFE LONG FAILURE and you cannot turn back the clock, there is no reset button you get ONE CHANCE.

If you truly believe you capped out you'll never, ever be unhappy.

(07-07-2012 05:29 AM)Spartan Wrote:  

(07-07-2012 05:12 AM)cool Wrote:  My only goal with money is to make "fuck you" money.

Surprisingly little is needed to get girls. I know a personal trainer making 20k a year who has a hot wife and a doctor making 200k a year who is spending a lot of time learning game.

Post: #35

Good post Westcoast, the challenge is always to find a balance between the different things we want more of in our lives.
It all depends on what you want the most.
At 35 years of age, I want to be more social so suddendly being at home all day long isn't that appealing to me. I'm exploring the possibility of doing part-time teaching so I can have access to more people and more opportunities to be social. I'm sure everyone has their own ideas so my unsolicited advice is to try them out and see what the hell happens.

Post: #36

Delete*

Post: #37

(07-09-2012 10:36 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  Yes bolded is exactly right, very specific to western culture but you'll see a lot of people chase "pipe dreams" and a lot of people simply "give up". Both of these things can cause serious damage to your future happiness just look at the two possible scenarios

1. Chase Pipedream of $10M and live in Thailand forever. This is where many of my colleages fall, i'll just work like crazy make it rain and be rich... Come on. The type of people who truly build up from scratch have extremely high levels of competition and are "wound up". I'm certainly still in the wound up portion of my life. If someone makes it to the "top" they are not going to be having "fun" sitting on a beach banging random girls and eating taquitos all day.
2. Live off nothing This is extreme case number two. This is actually more plausible for happiness than number one because of what kind of person can be happy this way. There was a book written by a guy called "giving up money" where he basically lives running around off of other people and does not have a job. Similar to Roosh's example of a dude who travels around South America juggling. The big issue here is why is this dude happy? He is happy because he probably never had money in the first place so his "lifestyle level is flattening". Compare this to say someone who grew up in the burbs in a 3 bedroom house, he'll unlikely be happy long-term in this life style because he's pushing financial security back further and further into his mind so he can "forget all about it" this takes a whole different type of animal to survive. Similar to posts i threw up on Zeus quitting the Street, once you move that bar up... its moved for good, takes serious mental strength to move that bar down and still be happy.
3. Maxing Out Happens. Another unhappiness trap is still unrealistically believing that you have more upside. This is similar to women who believe they can find a $1M man, 5 years younger than them who works 25 hours a week and wont cheat on them. The difference is these people believe crazy pipedreams like "wow one guy back in 2000 made the next Facebook at my age i can do it too!". The media sells a ton of dreams. Mark Zuckerberger is a great example everyone thinks he just randomly "made it", this of course is American Dream nonsense being sold to you, the guy was a genius, he had a $1M job offer from MSFT before even going to Harvard.

With all that said, the goal is to push down your material needs as far down as possible while remaining happy. But foolishly giving up on your potential is just going to give you massive regrets later in life. Again the same idea holds, if you really capped out you won't be unhappy

Maybe you'll end up a $10M man
Maybe you'll burn out at 28 and be done with $100K in the bank
Maybe you'll max out at $60K a year but you're doing some thing you love
Maybe you'll be happy running around the world living off beans and rice

But what if you fail? What if you mess up? These are questions that are meaningless because you have to do both over and over.

I have never met a man who was unhappy that truly gave it his all.

Look in the mirror did i max out? Was I proactive? Did i DO and SHOW more than I TOLD and COMPLAINED?

If you can be proactive day in and day out 24/7/365... yeah you'll never be unhappy because you'll have 0 regrets

I have seen what failure and regret looks like, a downward spiral of complaining, alcohol abuse, physical abuse, heart failure and a life span cut in half.

Nah, i have one regret in my life don't plan on having another.

(07-09-2012 10:07 PM)Jarocho2003 Wrote:  Good post Westcoast, the challenge is always to find a balance between the different things we want more of in our lives.
It all depends on what you want the most.
At 35 years of age, I want to be more social so suddendly being at home all day long isn't that appealing to me. I'm exploring the possibility of doing part-time teaching so I can have access to more people and more opportunities to be social. I'm sure everyone has their own ideas so my unsolicited advice is to try them out and see what the hell happens.

Post: #38

(07-07-2012 01:14 PM)sheesh Wrote:  

(07-02-2012 03:31 PM)Spartan Wrote:  There still are places in the world where its possible and I'm not the only one who choses slower paced locations. Whether its rural America, provincial Latin America, or small town Africa, there are still places that value a simple life. Anyone else here make the lifestyle choice to avoid capitalism and materialism?

You don't have to look that far...what about Southern Europe ?

I know how they phuked up big time with their debt crisis, but on a personal level, most people I have got to know live a very modest life. No fancy mansions, fuel thirsty SUVs, no plasma tv shit, no gadgets etc...

Most vacation in their home country...they enjoy food and wine in the evenings at a restaurant and the social contacts and cultural life.

Materialism as it is lived in most European countries is ok by me. Since the state takes away roughly 50% of your income, there is not much money for luxury, anyway.
In return, you get almost free health care , schooling, social benefits, even free university etc, depending on the country. A much better deal than living in Russia or Africa. I'm sorry to say but your ideas are very naive.


It's the American type of capitalism and over the top materialism that is flawed, but capitalism itself is not bad if it is balanced.

Hold up....

Quote:I know how they phuked up big time with their debt crisis

And....

Quote: Since the state takes away roughly 50% of your income, there is not much money for luxury, anyway.

Quote:In return, you get almost free health care , schooling, social benefits, even free university etc, depending on the country. A much better deal than living in Russia or Africa. I'm sorry to say but your ideas are very naive.

Post: #39

(07-07-2012 05:29 AM)Spartan Wrote:  

(07-07-2012 05:12 AM)cool Wrote:  My only goal with money is to make "fuck you" money.

Surprisingly little is needed to get girls. I know a personal trainer making 20k a year who has a hot wife and a doctor making 200k a year who is spending a lot of time learning game.

I "liked" Spartan's post because I like the idea of it. It makes me warm and fuzzy inside. However, in 10 years time, the doctor making 200k a year spending all that time learning game now (if he applies himself and improves) will probably have hot bitches on his dick he will have to fight off with a stick.

And the guy who is married...will still be married to that same chick, just 10 years older.

Post: #40

Correct.

People have a hard time maximizing out "inner game" while maxing out their future. This is where I disagree with many players, where it's all about "living in the moment". Sure that works, as soon as I walk out to go slay @ night it does not work if I spend my entire "present" just trying to get laid.

I won't be able to wake up in the morning happy unless I know I did something to make my future brighter and enjoy the present. The future being working hard @ work and learning a language, the present being spitting game at the gym/grocery store/via new randoms.

(07-09-2012 11:59 PM)UgSlayer Wrote:  

(07-07-2012 05:29 AM)Spartan Wrote:  

(07-07-2012 05:12 AM)cool Wrote:  My only goal with money is to make "fuck you" money.

Surprisingly little is needed to get girls. I know a personal trainer making 20k a year who has a hot wife and a doctor making 200k a year who is spending a lot of time learning game.

I "liked" Spartan's post because I like the idea of it. It makes me warm and fuzzy inside. However, in 10 years time, the doctor making 200k a year spending all that time learning game now (if he applies himself and improves) will probably have hot bitches on his dick he will have to fight off with a stick.

And the guy who is married...will still be married to that same chick, just 10 years older.

Post: #41

(07-10-2012 08:23 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  Correct.

People have a hard time maximizing out "inner game" while maxing out their future. This is where I disagree with many players, where it's all about "living in the moment". Sure that works, as soon as I walk out to go slay @ night it does not work if I spend my entire "present" just trying to get laid.

I won't be able to wake up in the morning happy unless I know I did something to make my future brighter and enjoy the present. The future being working hard @ work and learning a language, the present being spitting game at the gym/grocery store/via new randoms.

(07-09-2012 11:59 PM)UgSlayer Wrote:  

(07-07-2012 05:29 AM)Spartan Wrote:  

(07-07-2012 05:12 AM)cool Wrote:  My only goal with money is to make "fuck you" money.

Surprisingly little is needed to get girls. I know a personal trainer making 20k a year who has a hot wife and a doctor making 200k a year who is spending a lot of time learning game.

I "liked" Spartan's post because I like the idea of it. It makes me warm and fuzzy inside. However, in 10 years time, the doctor making 200k a year spending all that time learning game now (if he applies himself and improves) will probably have hot bitches on his dick he will have to fight off with a stick.

And the guy who is married...will still be married to that same chick, just 10 years older.

Gotta say, WestCoast, you are perhaps the most driven, and focused person I've ever come across.

It seems at some point here, we need to stop and realise the difference between living a minimalist lifestyle, and living like a homeless person. A minimalist can still work and earn money, but doesn't really need to spend much on fancy cars/technology/etc, because they get their satisfaction from the activities they pursue, or the company they keep. This is the kind of lifestyle I'd like to aim for - minimal possessions, maximum enjoyment. This kind of lifestyle also leaves a comfortable safety net for later in life, or when you want to retire at a younger age. The other alternative, that people seem to be talking about here is the "make just barely enough to survive, and that should do it" type lifestyle. If you can survive now, that's great. What happens if the house you're living in burns down, along with all of your few possessions, and you're underinsured? While you might say "I won't have much shit to replace," trying to replace anything at all on minimum/no wage is damn near impossible when your spending habits are already optimised to the max.

To me, a minimalist lifestyle is an attractive one. While I'm still studying, I can't legitimately be concerned with my future savings, as I barely earn enough to survive as it is. However, I know that once I graduate, and I start working a real job, it's going to be a different ball game. Living small now is, in my eyes, helping me to prepare for a more comfortable future, where I won't need to spend money on useless shit, and will be quite comfortable on the bare essentials. This sort of living can even assist the baller type lifestyle - you will able to drop cash at the drop of the hat, 'cause you know you won't be spending those mass amounts of savings you have (you're not spending your money, so what else is going to happen to it?) on the latest graphics card for your super high end computer, or a new 70" HD3DTV for your new home cinema that you might use once a month. If you just focus on things that make you better, you'll probably find that you actually end up with a lot left over in the end, even once you've reached a point where you feel like buying stuff, purely for the novelty of having a comfortable life. The more invested you are in yourself, the less invested you'll become in your possessions.

tl;dr: Earn money, but focus on improving yourself, rather than improving your life with useless possessions.

Post: #42

If you just focus on things that make you better, you'll probably find that you actually end up with a lot left over in the end, even once you've reached a point where you feel like buying stuff, purely for the novelty of having a comfortable life. The more invested you are in yourself, the less invested you'll become in your possessions.

This is spot on. As you can see maxing yourself out in every area of life pretty much guarantees success. It starts a snowball effect. It took about 5 years for me to be "stress free" doing this. That's really the key. Where working excruciatingly hard feels fun and you are "relaxed while working hard". Sports are the best example when you feel "on fire" sure you're running as fast as humanly possible but for some reason you don't miss shots, you make plays constantly, etc.

Biggest reason for me even being in here is most 20 something's don't realize just how hard you have to work to get ahead, all the cards are stacked against you, from schooling to ponzi scheme economy. In fact I'd say average man will live a worse life in 10 years than he has today, you just can't be average anymore it just doesn't work. Doing this while having fun takes monk like mindsets.

Post: #43

(07-10-2012 09:41 AM)WestCoast Wrote:  If you just focus on things that make you better, you'll probably find that you actually end up with a lot left over in the end, even once you've reached a point where you feel like buying stuff, purely for the novelty of having a comfortable life. The more invested you are in yourself, the less invested you'll become in your possessions.

This is spot on. As you can see maxing yourself out in every area of life pretty much guarantees success. It starts a snowball effect. It took about 5 years for me to be "stress free" doing this. That's really the key. Where working excruciatingly hard feels fun and you are "relaxed while working hard". Sports are the best example when you feel "on fire" sure you're running as fast as humanly possible but for some reason you don't miss shots, you make plays constantly, etc.

Biggest reason for me even being in here is most 20 something's don't realize just how hard you have to work to get ahead, all the cards are stacked against you, from schooling to ponzi scheme economy. In fact I'd say average man will live a worse life in 10 years than he has today, you just can't be average anymore it just doesn't work. Doing this while having fun takes monk like mindsets.

This mindset is why I left the USA. if it works for you, great. I personally don't believe excelling is important... for me its all about being able to make progress in the areas I value.

Post: #44

(07-10-2012 09:46 AM)Spartan Wrote:  This mindset is why I left the USA. if it works for you, great. I personally don't believe excelling is important... for me its all about being able to make progress in the areas I value.

Makes sense, my advice will be of no use for you except for regular old game advice.

For me I can't wake up and know that I didn't give it my all.

As they say, giving anything less than your best is sacraficing your gifts. Hardwork isn't hardwork, it's fun.

Post: #45

How much do you need to cover your basics? How much more would it take to have fun? For me in Colombia that takes around $1,200/month for BOTH.
It's the ironic that I'm having the most fun of my life and also saving the most because most of the activities I enjoy the most don't cost much (traveling by bus, swimming pools, playing basketball, NBA league pass, going to soccer matches, pussy).
The key for me has been location, location, location.

Post: #46

(07-10-2012 03:46 PM)Jarocho2003 Wrote:  How much do you need to cover your basics? How much more would it take to have fun? For me in Colombia that takes around $1,200/month for BOTH.
It's the ironic that I'm having the most fun of my life and also saving the most because most of the activities I enjoy the most don't cost much (traveling by bus, swimming pools, playing basketball, NBA league pass, going to soccer matches, pussy).
The key for me has been location, location, location.

Thats it. Some people on this forum dont believe you can live on a small budget. I dont spend more than 1500 dollars per month and i usually do almost everything i want to do.

I recently met a guy from Belgium and he told me he doesn't spend more than 1000 dollars per month in Brussels.

On 1500 dollars per month you can easily live the playboy life and travel to most of places. You just wont be able to stay in expensive places.

Post: #47

I've been on a quest to get rid of things for some time. I have much less than I used to, but still too many things. I have a certain anxiety about having too many things and having too much clutter, so the project of getting rid of things is quite rewarding, though sometimes frustrating.

My approach is to get rid of things slowly over time, rather than trying to get rid of everything at once (though a yard sale is a good idea on occasion, of course.) And of course, on the other side of things is controlling urges to get random crap I don't need. I rarely do that anymore, and it feels good.

How do you all go about getting rid of things? Anyone use Craigslist or Ebay to sell stuff? Donate things?

Post: #48

I used to want nice cars and a really nice house, but now I just want a boat and a semi-decent place on a nice beach.

Post: #49

(07-11-2012 03:57 PM)dirtman Wrote:  I've been on a quest to get rid of things for some time. I have much less than I used to, but still too many things. I have a certain anxiety about having too many things and having too much clutter, so the project of getting rid of things is quite rewarding, though sometimes frustrating.

My approach is to get rid of things slowly over time, rather than trying to get rid of everything at once (though a yard sale is a good idea on occasion, of course.) And of course, on the other side of things is controlling urges to get random crap I don't need. I rarely do that anymore, and it feels good.

How do you all go about getting rid of things? Anyone use Craigslist or Ebay to sell stuff? Donate things?

I used Craigslist and I would suggest doing the garage sale as well. I have given some stuff away to family members/friends and the remaining stuff which will take forever to try and sell I am going to donate. But back to Craigslist, some stuff takes a while to sell depending on what you have, so the sooner you start the better. Example it took me about 6 months to sell off a gym machine I had @ 25% of the original price. I would spend sometime on the minimalists sites, they have tons of helpful tips.

Post: #50

(07-02-2012 04:32 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  Yes I'm also fed up with materialism and all the BS of living in NA. I'm going to work very hard here in the oil fields in AB starting this fall for 4-6 years, save as much as possible, build a capital, sell my place here and with the $, live off interest and just relax and enjoy life and an endless supply of fresh girls from Asia to South America with EE thrown in the mix.

I'm really sick and tired of all this BS here. I pay or rather, waste a lot of money on useless shit such as maintenance fees and property taxes each month here that that alone would allow me to get a PIMP place in BKK or the Phils or in EE or South America. I'm sick and tired of paying extortionate amounts for everything here after having lived the good life in Asia for a fraction of what it costs here to live a miserably uber boring life.

Same here....