Post: #26

(06-16-2012 01:11 PM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  Just took a look. Guy claims Ebay is a shit way to make money online and you can't do it while travelling.

Seen enough

Good luck with your project though.

The free book on the guys website seems to have solid info, as if he's an elance guru. If you look up his elance profile he hasn't even been on the site that long at all, yet he's already put out a guide teaching others.

It's a free guide and in my opinion it contains decent information. My gripe is he states 'Working full time, you can easily earn $5000 a month with these techniques.'

Really? If that's true why isn't he doing it himself on elance, because his numbers are nowhere even close to that.

It's like a guy with 6 months training in BJJ opening up his own school and teaching others(it's happened). I'm happy that in BJJ our community is so close nit and traceable that they get outed almost immediately.

One of the reason's I read Roosh and this board is to avoid the BS.

Post: #27

I didn't like his ebook or his website much. He basically discounted all other ways of making money online as scams or a waste of time (ebay, amazon, fiverr, affiliate marketing etc) and said that freelancing was the only way to make money and hyped it up to fuck saying even if you don't have any skills you could still make money from it. He talks about how he does freelance article writing even though when he started he had no idea how to write articles yet as far as I saw he failed to give any tips on how to get to the stage where you are good enough at writing for them to sell. The whole ebook was lacking and now I'm reading he's just started freelancing himself. Another case of the blind leading the blind.

Post: #28

(06-10-2012 01:37 AM)Andy_B Wrote:  

(06-09-2012 10:32 PM)Mr McGillycuddy Wrote:  Also, Andy, what resources (blogs, books, courses, etc...) do you recommend?

You want to do copywriting, right?

I have three recommendations for you, for building the skills, building the business, and using freelance sites.

Building The Skills: Dan Kennedy's "The Ultimate Sales Letter." Sales letter writing is generally considered the most lucrative form of sales copywriting; The Ultimate Sales Letter is widely considered the most important book on the topic.

Building The Business: Peter Bowerman's "The Well Fed Writer: Financial Self-Sufficiency As A Commercial Copywriter In six Months Or Less." Most respected book for starting a copywriting business.

Using Freelance Sites: Hayden Jackson's "72 Tips For Elance Writers," a great book written for Elance writers. Advice applies to odesk and other sites as well.

Is it possible to start freelancing without any job experience?

Post: #29

(07-01-2012 09:55 AM)Andreas Wrote:  Is it possible to start freelancing without any job experience?

I had no experience freelancing, joined elance took some of the skills test, put up a profile and started firing away writing proposals. I tried to send out proposals to writing assignments I had some background in.

The good news is that there are clients who will hire you to write web articles, and do other type of odd jobs.

The bad news is if you're starting from the bottom as I was, the jobs are pretty low paying. I admit that some of them were pretty fun though.

When it comes to writing, I looked at the type contractors who were highest paid and it seemed like they were copywriters, technical writers, and some of the editor/proofreaders. A lot of them seemed to be doing it for a while or doing it full time.

Some of the programming/IT guys seemed to be making decent coin as well.

So in my opinion and through me actually trying this, yes it is possible to do it with no experience.

As far as how long it will take to climb up the mountain and start making decent money, I can't answer that question. Like anything else you probably get what you put in.

Post: #30

If someone has telesales/telemarketing experience you can get 15-20 euros an hour for some basic stuff, and there is less competition than with other sectors; nobody wants to be pitched by an Indian.

You don't even need this Freelancing sites, you can approach companies directly.

Then all you need is a Skype account with unlimited calls.

Post: #31

(07-01-2012 10:10 AM)Neo Wrote:  

(07-01-2012 09:55 AM)Andreas Wrote:  Is it possible to start freelancing without any job experience?

I had no experience freelancing, joined elance took some of the skills test, put up a profile and started firing away writing proposals. I tried to send out proposals to writing assignments I had some background in.

The good news is that there are clients who will hire you to write web articles, and do other type of odd jobs.

The bad news is if you're starting from the bottom as I was, the jobs are pretty low paying. I admit that some of them were pretty fun though.

When it comes to writing, I looked at the type contractors who were highest paid and it seemed like they were copywriters, technical writers, and some of the editor/proofreaders. A lot of them seemed to be doing it for a while or doing it full time.

Some of the programming/IT guys seemed to be making decent coin as well.

So in my opinion and through me actually trying this, yes it is possible to do it with no experience.

As far as how long it will take to climb up the mountain and start making decent money, I can't answer that question. Like anything else you probably get what you put in.

I don't really mind getting 5-7 euros per hour when starting out. The reason I ask is because I have so much free time now and I don't pay rents nor do I have to worry about food or anything. I'm looking to gain some momentum over time.

I have another question. How do you write a Resume/c.v on Elance as a beginner?

Post: #32

(07-01-2012 10:49 AM)Andreas Wrote:  I don't really mind getting 5-7 euros per hour when starting out. The reason I ask is because I have so much free time now and I don't pay rents nor do I have to worry about food or anything. I'm looking to gain some momentum over time.

I have another question. How do you write a Resume/c.v on Elance as a beginner?

I just wrote a few simple paragraphs. Like what types of writing I was available for and the topics that I had expertise in. It also helps to look at high paid contractors and their profiles. I noticed that a lot of them had nothing fancy.

I believe that the feedback system and the portfolio are what really matters. I'm still new at the freelance game though.

Post: #33

(06-16-2012 01:07 PM)dulst Wrote:  I'm starting a freelancing project soon to keep me busy over summer. http://earnontheroad.com/ is the free resource I'm learning from.

is this guy a good guru from marketing and make money online ?

Post: #34

You can write articles as a freelancer.

Its not glorious money, but as you move your way up you'll be making more every hour you work.

Right now I charge 1.5$ per 100 words for my article writing service and I take work only when I want to. When I'm focused it probably takes me 45 minutes to a hour to finish a 1000 word article(which is 15 bucks).

If I don't want to work, I get someone else to write for me and I keep a small cut.

Post: #35

dupe post

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #36

(11-21-2012 01:52 PM)torontokid Wrote:  You can write articles as a freelancer.

Its not glorious money, but as you move your way up you'll be making more every hour you work.

Right now I charge 1.5$ per 100 words for my article writing service and I take work only when I want to. When I'm focused it probably takes me 45 minutes to a hour to finish a 1000 word article(which is 15 bucks).

If I don't want to work, I get someone else to write for me and I keep a small cut.

You can get paid A LOT more than that. I've gotten everywhere from $30 - $105 per 500 word article (almost always on the highest end of that spectrum these days; I'm not taking any new clients on for less than $50 per piece). I can typically do one or two of these in an hour. And other writers I'm networking with tell me I'm still at the low end.

Earlier this month, I wrote 7 short and simple emails for $735.

Study marketing, and raise your fees.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #37

Has anyone tried Contently? It seems like a newer, flashier version of some of the other mentioned sites where you can create a profile and try to get writing work. I'm curious what the average assignment pays since the site claims to only deal with legit companies (i.e., no cheap content farms).

Post: #38

(11-21-2012 02:39 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(11-21-2012 01:52 PM)torontokid Wrote:  You can write articles as a freelancer.

Its not glorious money, but as you move your way up you'll be making more every hour you work.

Right now I charge 1.5$ per 100 words for my article writing service and I take work only when I want to. When I'm focused it probably takes me 45 minutes to a hour to finish a 1000 word article(which is 15 bucks).

If I don't want to work, I get someone else to write for me and I keep a small cut.

You can get paid A LOT more than that. I've gotten everywhere from $30 - $105 per 500 word article (almost always on the highest end of that spectrum these days; I'm not taking any new clients on for less than $50 per piece). I can typically do one or two of these in an hour. And other writers I'm networking with tell me I'm still at the low end.

Earlier this month, I wrote 7 short and simple emails for $735.

Study marketing, and raise your fees.

That's insane!

Yeah, I could probably raise prices. I'm not looking for much work but I do want to earn a good hourly income of it. I'll get on that and raise my prices to 2.00 per 100 words.

Are you acquiring these clients through Odesk? Are these technical contracts?

Post: #39

Quote:That's insane!

Yeah, I could probably raise prices. I'm not looking for much work but I do want to earn a good hourly income of it. I'll get on that and raise my prices to 2.00 per 100 words.

Are you acquiring these clients through Odesk? Are these technical contracts?

There's great money in it - do doubt about it. Believe it or not, the good commercial writers (read good businessmen/marketers) are making 6 figures a year with their writing biz. That's just the good ones - people with celebrity status can make more.

Pick up a copy of Writer's Market - I just bought the deluxe version, which gives you a physical copy and a 1-year subscription to WritersMarket.com. In the book, they've got a chapter that breaks down all the different rates for writing work, both online and offline. Gives lows, averages, and highs.

Rest assured that you will not find anything as low as $2 per 100 words on there - even in the "low" category. Their stated "average" for white papers is about $5K. Blogs? $50 on average (down from a few years ago, I believe), and $500 on the high end.

Actually, here's a slightly outdated version of the chapter if you want to check it out (they include it every year): http://www.writersmarket.com/assets/pdf/...Charge.pdf

If you want to get serious about this stuff, great starting points are the book, "The Well-fed Writer," and Carol Tice's Freelance Writing Den.

Basically it's all about learning to promote yourself and conducting business like a professional. If you think businesses who pull in $1,000,000 per year or even half that would even consider hiring someone at $10 per article to pen communications that represent their business, you're the one who's insane. No offense...

FYI: A business pulling in a million a year is still in the small business category - small fish.

Add on some real copywriting skills, tech writing, and marketing know-how and the sky really is the limit.

As for $30 - $50 per article rates, I've pulled plenty of jobs like that off Elance, the Warrior Forum, and Craigslist. Those are often touted as low-end places to get work (it's true they are for the most part).

For higher end stuff, you're better off with LinkedIn, online job ads (even for salary positions you can sometimes email them and ask if they've got needs for a freelancer while hiring), and hitting up AUTHORITY blogs and businesses directly. Word of mouth, of course - rep is everything. I hear cold calling has very solid results, but I haven't had the balls...yet.

If you do cold call or send direct mail, make sure you do your research ahead of time. It's not a numbers game, and even if it was, you'd run yourself ragged.

Start up a solid blog or two as well. Sometimes people will find you through your work, you can use it for clips, and you can make some cash with your own products, services, and/or affiliate marketing while you're at it. Use these blogs to practice your social media skills so you can offer them to clients.

A blog piece of yours goes unexpectedly viral on Twitter and brings in a shitload of traffic? Use it as a case study when pitching new clients. Whether you're just offering the writing or the social media too, that's an example of results that you can leverage.

The more I'm exposed to this shit, the more I believe writing skills are one of the most valuable things you can cultivate (aside from marketing). With the internet, it's obvious - everyone online needs the goods. But it doesn't stop there - the world runs on information, Man. Some of it is cheap - and often trashy.

But a lot of information comes at a high premium. And it costs for a reason; good info is VALUABLE.

Here are few examples:

What is a seminar, when you really break it down? Information. Top seminar tickets go for tens of thousands of dollars. Someone has to write that shit. Even low-end seminars teaching basic skills bring in dough.

Consulting work? One of the highest paid forms of info out there - it's not written, necessarily, but writing teaches you the communication skills and mentality of a consultant. Hone in on a specific niche and it's a direct path.

Not to sound too hypey, but the possibilities really are endless...

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #40

Thanks for the excellent post. I'm going to pickup some of those resources and also raise my rates for writing on BHW.

Right now, I got an essay assignment for someone in Belgium for around 4.5$ per 500 words. I realize that I should have charged at least twice what I"m charging right now.

Especially when I'm making so much more cash of my SEO biz, I gotta maximize the hourly return on any freelance writing I do.

There are too ways to improve my hourly return-

1)Improve my quality and write better.
2)Improve my marketing and get a better rate for the work I provide.

It seems like the second option is something I'm slacking at. Most writers online are pretty bad at marketing. It's mostly a lack of entitlement and not having an idea of how much their writing is worth.

One thing I will do for sure is upsell writing as I"m getting into an Offline project for SEO. I'll charge higher rates(25-30 dollars per 500 words of content).

Post: #41

torontokid you definitely need to charge more!
I just accepted a gig for 17 bucks for 500 word articles and Im not really happy. I was asking for 25.

My main field is translations and I charge 25 dollars an hour.

I also got a regular office job writing SEO articles, they pay me 40€ for 3 articles. I convinced my boss to let me work from home so basically now its location independent too.

I want to get into copywriting this seems to be where the real money is.

Post: #42

I've just read this thread and I really want to get into what you guys are doing, where can I start with the basics? To gain let's say the pre-requisite skills to even start writing?

Post: #43

Beyond Borders,

How did you develop your writing niches? Were they something that were related to your previous background/things you were interested in or did you go where they money was?

Post: #44

(11-22-2012 07:03 AM)w00t Wrote:  torontokid you definitely need to charge more!
I just accepted a gig for 17 bucks for 500 word articles and Im not really happy. I was asking for 25.

My main field is translations and I charge 25 dollars an hour.

I also got a regular office job writing SEO articles, they pay me 40€ for 3 articles. I convinced my boss to let me work from home so basically now its location independent too.

I want to get into copywriting this seems to be where the real money is.

You should really start thinking about how to get to $100 per hour if you want to take the business seriously. Anyone who offers a high-demand service like this should be shooting for around $100 per billable hour, especially considering the time spent marketing, lack of benefits, etc.

Have you read the top 10 books from Amazon on running a translating business?

Would you start a business off of the Internet without seeking out the expert advice, guidance, and experiences of people who'd gone before you and succeeded?

In my opinion, the number one reason people make crap wages online is because they simply don't take it seriously enough. Like it's not completely real because it's on the web.

Your niche is a huge industry. I can almost guarantee there are people out there making a killing at it either as a one-man practice or even running a team of employees.

(11-22-2012 07:49 AM)bojangles Wrote:  I've just read this thread and I really want to get into what you guys are doing, where can I start with the basics? To gain let's say the pre-requisite skills to even start writing?

Start with the three resources I already mentioned in my thread above. Another couple books to check out are "The Wealthy Freelancer" and "Million-dollar Consulting."

Buy the top 10 most popular books on Amazon for freelance writing businesses.

If you want to improve your writing, check out this - an online school for building journalism skills and online writing skills. Some classes are free - others are very reasonably-priced: http://www.newsu.org/

Take a couple writing classes at the local community college. Start a journal. Start a couple blogs. Practice, practice, practice.

(11-22-2012 08:52 AM)Neo Wrote:  Beyond Borders,

How did you develop your writing niches? Were they something that were related to your previous background/things you were interested in or did you go where they money was?

I just bid on jobs if I have any kind of experience or know-how in them and then fill in the gaps with necessary research. In the beginning, I bid on anything that came my way - but better rates are definitely found through specialization.

Sometimes a niche just falls in your lap. I've written about some niches I hated and never thought I'd have anything to do with, but at $100+ per hour, you learn to deal with it. To me writing about something I'm not thrilled about is a reasonable trade-off for not having to work some shit job in a set location and a boss I don't respect.

Not to mention that where I'm at right now feels like just the beginning. If I keep building skills and networking, there's a million directions I could go with it, almost all far more rewarding than where I am right now.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #45

(11-22-2012 02:21 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(11-22-2012 07:03 AM)w00t Wrote:  torontokid you definitely need to charge more!
I just accepted a gig for 17 bucks for 500 word articles and Im not really happy. I was asking for 25.

My main field is translations and I charge 25 dollars an hour.

I also got a regular office job writing SEO articles, they pay me 40€ for 3 articles. I convinced my boss to let me work from home so basically now its location independent too.

I want to get into copywriting this seems to be where the real money is.

You should really start thinking about how to get to $100 per hour if you want to take the business seriously. Anyone who offers a high-demand service like this should be shooting for around $100 per billable hour, especially considering the time spent marketing, lack of benefits, etc.

Have you read the top 10 books from Amazon on running a translating business?

Would you start a business off of the Internet without seeking out the expert advice, guidance, and experiences of people who'd gone before you and succeeded?

In my opinion, the number one reason people make crap wages online is because they simply don't take it seriously enough. Like it's not completely real because it's on the web.

Your niche is a huge industry. I can almost guarantee there are people out there making a killing at it either as a one-man practice or even running a team of employees.

Youre absolutely right and thats what Im going for, 100$ an hour.
I started out with low rates as I wanted to get out of my office job. Now I got my bases covered and wanna scale up my rates. Im thinking about directly contacting companies as well and Im trying to get a foot into proz and translatorscafe which are strictly for translations. I want to buy a translation software and get certified for that as it adds further credibility. Built a small website to showcase my portfolio and working on a buzz piece right now.

25$ an hour is HUGE for me right now, im sitll in university and never made as much money workig offline. Though I have no steady stream of work at this rate *yet*. I got a kick out of charging that much as a newbie without any real credentials or experience. I hope in a year it will be a laughable rate for me.

So far I went through Well-Fed Writer, Wealthy Freelancer and John Carltons Course on Freelance Copywriting (which has some pretty good advice for freelancing in general). Next year I want to study a shitton of copywriting material as well, I think its a great skill to have and good copywriters can name their price.

Post: #46

Not 100% on topic but just a tip to watch out for how you are being paid on elance. I took a project as a content editor paying around $2500 over a 6 month period. The catch was it was paid in $100 monthly installments the balance being paid upon final completion of the project.
The project ended up taking a ridiculous amount of my time i.e working it out on an hourly basis I ended up getting paid around $3 per hour.
In addition, due to circumstances beyond my control (technical content authors in India disapearing and not submitting work etc, poor PM from the project owner and so on) my assitance was mysteriously 'no longer required' after I had been paid a meere $700 and the project was 90% complete...
There's really nothing you can do about this once you already agreed to the payment structure so, I advise always billing hourly, using the built in 'work time' feature on elance if the client requires.
Good luck

Post: #47

what languages are you guys translating?

Post: #48

(11-22-2012 06:58 PM)192 Wrote:  Not 100% on topic but just a tip to watch out for how you are being paid on elance. I took a project as a content editor paying around $2500 over a 6 month period. The catch was it was paid in $100 monthly installments the balance being paid upon final completion of the project.
The project ended up taking a ridiculous amount of my time i.e working it out on an hourly basis I ended up getting paid around $3 per hour.
In addition, due to circumstances beyond my control (technical content authors in India disapearing and not submitting work etc, poor PM from the project owner and so on) my assitance was mysteriously 'no longer required' after I had been paid a meere $700 and the project was 90% complete...
There's really nothing you can do about this once you already agreed to the payment structure so, I advise always billing hourly, using the built in 'work time' feature on elance if the client requires.
Good luck

Problems are common. But reading books by professional freelancers who've gone before you will give you a lot of advice on how to avoid these pitfalls - there are approaches you can take concerning payment that will lessen or even eliminate the chances of these things happening.

Once again, this concept of leveraging existing knowledge applies to starting in any industry.

Case in point: I paid my way through college by starting a small landscaping business. Since I knew very little about running a business and even less about landscaping (lol), I didn't just assume things might go wrong - I absolutely expected it.

So I bought a small stack of books from Borders on starting and running a landscaping business. Those books acted as my coach, my business consultant, and my reference guide. Shit I learned how to plant lawns for the first time with those books. I learned how to negotiate with customers, how to market myself, how to get repeat work, and how to avoid getting stiffed.

The fact that so many people who start a writing or editing business fail to take even this small step of educating themselves by buying that stack of books tells me they aren't being serious about starting a business.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #49

(05-30-2012 05:08 AM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  I live in Eastern Europe, so living like a king. I have become too lazy though.

Hi, how you been?

Post: #50

(11-22-2012 07:03 AM)w00t Wrote:  I also got a regular office job writing SEO articles, they pay me 40€ for 3 articles.

I want to get into copywriting this seems to be where the real money is.

Any books or resources you could recommend for learning about SEO and writing specifically for SEO?