Post: #1

I went out with a friend-of-a-friend who recently swallowed the red pill after a failed LTR. Our mutual friend told him to friend me on Facebook because I "know what I'm doing." Said mutual friend is a gal I hung out with a few times but had to flip her because she was too hung up on an ex-boyfriend (AMOG in college) and brought him up too often for my taste.

This guy, who still lacks confidence and self-esteem, showed me a bunch of things he was doing that I realized I don't do, and maybe never did. The one thing that angered me the most, and I don't recall EVER seeing anyone talk about it here when I was sitting on the sidelines is the social circle good night hug that women always seem to offer guys they're not interested in.

Him and I hung out at a pub where I figured he'd do well at getting numbers. Unfortunately, a half hour after we rolled in, a pile of his friends from his regular hood show up unexpectedly. I specifically told him to NOT tell anyone where we were going, so it was truly random luck.

That pile of friends happened to also be hanging out with some coworkers and outside circle friends, so it was fresh meat for this guy to deal with. Some of that fresh meat was looking really good, I'd say 7s all around. I was surprised, because his friends seemed pretty chumpy, and his gal pals were all showing the beer belly.

I told him to take it easy, don't focus on any one person, make the rounds within the group but let's focus on people elsewhere in the bar -- a little social proof from his circle won't hurt. I tried my best to stand down from opening anyone (mostly because my sex life is pretty solid and I don't have time for anyone else), and mostly just watched him peripherally while also just socializing and promoting my Chicago-based businesses where I could.

He fucked up all over the place, but at least he has no deep seated bad habits, he's just a Nice Guy, but he's tall (6'1") and what I'd consider very good looking (8). I'm personally a low 5 and short, so I'd think if I can do gangbusters in social circle game, he could, too.

By night's end (midnight, everyone had to work in the morning), the fresh meat all said their good nights, and 3 of the 5 gals who said good night to Red Pill Swallower gave him a friendly good night hug. When it came time to give me a hug, I just did what I always do and put my palm on one of their shoulders or neck bones and gave them the push-off. "Sorry, I don't do PDA" is what I always say.

Whereas he gave them the friendly brotherly hug, I pushed them off because I seriously hate giving in to that hugging bullshit, unless the gal is stacked and she's looking like she is going to whisper to me to meet her up elsewhere after a group splits up. None of those gals were IOIing me at all, mostly because I had a wall up and was more focused on this guy.

What ends up happening? We both get Facebook'd by the new masses (I let them stew for up to a year before accepting, as I do with anyone new), but he gets no play. I get 2 private messages from 2 of the gals saying they had a good time and that we should "all hang out again."

I wonder how much social circle game can be had through just closing the night properly -- even if you don't number close. That "let's hug so I can feel like you're attracted to me" bullshit from platonic women is a dead end for me. No woman has the right to touch me unless she's going to touch me correctly.

What say you?

Post: #2

I go for the cheek kiss.

Post: #3

Very interesting. I am going to make this adjustment myself.

I don't mind the hug thing, or the half-handshake-half hug thing... but of course, when women do it in that setting it is a bit condescending... like "I don't think nothing of you, but I will deign to give you a token to act like I give a shit as a show to others and to cover up my bitchiness or shit attitude." I guess I just haven't sweated it because in most of those cases, I have disqualified the girl anyway. But of course, if she is disqualified, there's nothing to lose in busting her ass a little, rather than going along with all the social norms.

I think pushing them off with "I don't do PDA" or "I only let my girlfriends touch me like that".. or even changing it up to something else like a fistbump or a slap on the ass... is a good way to re-frame so that the 'goodbye' is going to be what *I* want it to be, and its going to be a little ballsy. Especially since they are bidding farewell, you don't even have to sweat an awkward fail because they do not linger.

I hope you keep helping that guy.

Post: #4

(04-13-2012 11:57 AM)King Solomon Wrote:  Very interesting. I am going to make this adjustment myself.

At the very least, give it a try and report back.

(04-13-2012 11:57 AM)King Solomon Wrote:  I don't mind the hug thing, or the half-handshake-half hug thing... but of course, when women do it in that setting it is a bit condescending...

I don't have any research on it other than this one time, which is why I asked. Now that I think about, I feel pretty confident that women use the hug specifically to turn down the guy. It's the "hello-jump-on-you-hug" that I'm OK with, like they're super excited to see me. You know, arms around your shoulders, their legs kicking back in the air. That's acceptable.

(04-13-2012 11:57 AM)King Solomon Wrote:  like "I don't think nothing of you, but I will deign to give you a token to act like I give a shit as a show to others and to cover up my bitchiness or shit attitude."

Bingo.

(04-13-2012 11:57 AM)King Solomon Wrote:  I guess I just haven't sweated it because in most of those cases, I have disqualified the girl anyway. But of course, if she is disqualified, there's nothing to lose in busting her ass a little, rather than going along with all the social norms.

Yeah, I'm really quick to disqualify women, but I don't have one-itis and I have options, so it's no skin off... I guess if I wasn't happy in the sack, I can see my level of desire jump up quite a bit.

I also don't swing for ONS or SNL, either, but that's mostly because I am too busy to deal with drama, psychosis, aftermaths and all that jazz.

(04-13-2012 11:57 AM)King Solomon Wrote:  I think pushing them off with "I don't do PDA" or "I only let my girlfriends touch me like that".. or even changing it up to something else like a fistbump or a slap on the ass... is a good way to re-frame so that the 'goodbye' is going to be what *I* want it to be, and its going to be a little ballsy. Especially since they are bidding farewell, you don't even have to sweat an awkward fail because they do not linger.

I guess that's my subconscious thought during the process, but I always condescendingly push women off if I'm not getting something out of them. No, I won't give you a hug and boost your ego, give me something first.

(04-13-2012 11:57 AM)King Solomon Wrote:  I hope you keep helping that guy.

I think so -- he lives just 10 minutes north of me, he runs in decent high financial circles, and he's shown an interest in breaking his mold of betadom. Only time will tell -- most guys I've tried to help do well and then they land their first 8 and suffer horrible one-itis.

Post: #5

Cool story, but what does PDA stand for?

Post: #6

PDA = Public Displays of Affection.

Post: #7

(04-13-2012 01:04 PM)ABDada Wrote:  PDA = Public Displays of Affection.

Alright.

So did you hang out with the gals again?

Post: #8

what is this push-off thing?

Anyway, I don't see the big deal about a hug. It's kind of a social norm, no?

Post: #9

What is this thread about?
Why are we discussing game around a hug?

Hugs mean nothing..in the fun countries..you great with kisses..

Post: #10

...because of the correlation mentioned with "I denied the hug but got responses, he accepted the hug and got none". Which is an interesting observation, but without more data it's just a one-time correlation.

Of course, it's also true that ABDada has more experience ad deliberately cultivated an aloof attitude that evening while his friend "fucked up all over the place", so it could be there's a correlation between "aloof and seeming disinterested got responses, and fucked up all over the place got none."

So "I feel pretty confident that women use the hug specifically to turn down the guy" is very possibly true, but it'd be best to have more responses like this, so he's bringing it up so that we can look out for it. Worth looking out for, I'd say, as well as the idea that denying the "brotherly hug" is MORE likely to get you responses (that's what we really want to know).

Post: #11

(04-13-2012 10:54 AM)ABDada Wrote:  By night's end (midnight, everyone had to work in the morning), the fresh meat all said their good nights, and 3 of the 5 gals who said good night to Red Pill Swallower gave him a friendly good night hug. When it came time to give me a hug, I just did what I always do and put my palm on one of their shoulders or neck bones and gave them the push-off. "Sorry, I don't do PDA" is what I always say.

How do you get this to work? A while ago I said something similar, polite but refusing, and everyone around looked at me like I was weird. I'm also pretty cold toward platonic girl affectations so that outcasts me a little too.

What about this one that I do currently?

I think its a slightly more "forced" technique, what I do now usually, is to say "High Five!" right as she starts moving in to the hug. If she's drunk, you get bonus points if she walks right into your hand LOL.

Post: #12

(04-13-2012 11:57 AM)King Solomon Wrote:  I guess that's my subconscious thought during the process, but I always condescendingly push women off if I'm not getting something out of them. No, I won't give you a hug and boost your ego, give me something first.

I'm exactly the same. In fact, I usually don't even acknowledge girls who clearly aren't interested.

Alot of people think I'm extremely shy because I don't say a word to them. I'm an introvert, but have solid social skills. I just don't fvcking want to talk to a bird who has nothing interesting to say (srsly) and just wants the social proof of being seen talking to me, a hot guy.

And then people start hating me when they see me close.

Are we weird for refusing these stupid platonic gestures? Or do other men just surpress the desire to reject deep down and accept it? I mean, clearly some of the blue-pill crowd might think it's leading to something, but can't some people just tell the girl isn't down? Are they just tryna feel her body or something? smh.....

Post: #13

(04-13-2012 01:44 PM)HiFlo Wrote:  what is this push-off thing?

Anyway, I don't see the big deal about a hug. It's kind of a social norm, no?

rejecting neutral social norm to look alpha. great example of 'game' turning someone into a weirdo.

i jut can't visualise your push away move plus the PDA line with someone you've only just met without it seeming really odd, and i'm from a not particularly tactile culture.

if you think the friendly hug indicates a lack of real interest, doing this contrived move isn't going to magically change their mind.

Post: #14

Making something so meaningless into a big deal "game related". Let me guess, you are probably going to make them wait a year before you hang out with them again.