Post: #26

The right to free speech enshrined in the US constitution is one of the greatest things about the country, I wish we had that up in Canada!

We had a couple of very high profile cases (involving Muslims) with various provincial human rights commissions in Canada, they are quasi-kangaroo courts which, thanks to PM Harper, have lost some of their power in the last few years.

Canadian journalist Mark Steyn was brought before the British Columbia Human Rights Commission over this 2006 MacLean's article "The future belongs to Islam": http://www.macleans.ca/culture/books/art...898_134898

And another Canadian, journalist/lawyer/shit disturber Ezra Levant, was brought before the Alberta Human Rights Commission after publishing those infamous "Danish cartoons" in his now defunct magazine, the Western Standard: http://ezralevant.com/2008/01/my-visit-t...court.html

Its a slippery slope, once you let the government pick and choose what it considers to be "hate" speech, some of it reminds me of Orwell's 1984.

Here's a video of those two Canadian journalists mentioned debating free speech and other issues: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfAQZMaRHHg

Post: #27

The U.S.A. should not engage in silencing "hate" speech. As others here have pointed out, it's a slippery slope... And honestly, I'd rather be pissed off at an 'offensive' comment some asshole makes, than knowing that he's not allowed to say something at all.

Post: #28

Unless you are inciting people to harm others like, "kill all of those filthy (insert group here)", you should be able to say what you want. No matter how despicable it is.

Post: #29

...I never thought I'd actually be proud to be American...

Post: #30

Very good comments here. Glad to see folks with backbone.

Totalitarianism is creeping into public communication like slow-flowing toxic waste.

I'd already taken Brazil and EU off my list of places to live for this reason (and others). U.S. is off because of TSA (and other reasons).

I do try to reserve race-bashing for races I am part of, in order to be polite. But being polite doesn't mean I am going to whisper or skulk around.

Post: #31

People should be able to say whatever they want to unless it's defamation or whatever. Holocaust denial and bans on Nazi regalia in general but especially Europe being an exception.

Post: #32

Nazi regalia is the bomb. Some of the uniforms were apparently designed by Hugo Boss.

If they were or not is really immaterial but whoever designed them had an eye for style, with the black SS uniforms being head and shoulders above any other uniforms in existence when it comes to appearance.

Just because I like the uniforms, flags, decorations, etc it doesn't mean I bake Jews in my oven. I can kind of understand Germany banning the use or display of Nazi paraphernalia, but deep down I feel it's just a typical overreaction by those that see nothing more than the symbolism that pops immediately to mind.

Post: #33

We all descend from the same specie. It's not as though white people descend from zebras, black people from gorillas, asian people from insert arbitrary animal here. I really have no problem with people being jailed for making racial remarks. Everyone should be treated equally.

Post: #34

(04-05-2012 01:47 AM)Hotwheels Wrote:  Nazi regalia is the bomb. Some of the uniforms were apparently designed by Hugo Boss.

If they were or not is really immaterial but whoever designed them had an eye for style, with the black SS uniforms being head and shoulders above any other uniforms in existence when it comes to appearance.

Just because I like the uniforms, flags, decorations, etc it doesn't mean I bake Jews in my oven. I can kind of understand Germany banning the use or display of Nazi paraphernalia, but deep down I feel it's just a typical overreaction by those that see nothing more than the symbolism that pops immediately to mind.

I meant the use of the Nazi Swastika as opposed to something resembling an SS uniform. If it doesn't have a Nazi logo on it then it's just another uniform. But if it had a swastika like this it ain't fucking funny.



These swastika's shouldn't be banned anywhere though.


The fact is, anti-semitism and using the Holocaust to bully Jews is still ridiculously common. Only two weeks ago another school during a swim meet decided to chant "You're just mad cause you lost the Holocaust" at mine because we're perceived to be a Jewish school (Anglican affiliated, but located in a heavily Jewish and Hasidic area).

You can extend this to any group/ethnicity. Genocide is crossing the line, anything promoting it (even as a sick joke) shouldn't be tolerated.

Post: #35

The Brilliant John Robb at Global Guerillas observed astutely...“ Ideologies live or die based on how they are applied in the real world and not in how they seem to work in theoretical discussions or books. Any ex-communist can attest to that.”

The same thing can be applied to free speech/PC laws and gender issues also. They are applied to real world abhorrent from the principals of natural law or biology. Then again we are witnessing the paradigm shift from the individual to the collective.

Post: #36

Honestly, I believe in pretty strong form freedom of speech.

As somebody else in the thread said, in the U.S., limits to speech are pretty much just defamation and inflammatory statements (i.e. shouting fire in a crowded building). This is pretty much the ideal in my opinion.

We can debate the pros and cons of various types of speech policies all night, and we can talk all day about which types of speech lead to which consequences, but to me, the minute you start seriously talking about "speech codes" or any other type of speech regulation beyond a few basic forms of defamation protection, you're getting into nanny state territory.

I dunno, I guess I just don't like any form of government where the relationship between the authorities and the people is like that between the school teacher and the students. Seems dehumanizing somehow, or at least demeaning.

Post: #37

(04-05-2012 04:41 AM)Hankk Wrote:  Then again we are witnessing the paradigm shift from the individual to the collective.

i.e. the paradigm shift from how things were for the past 500 years, to how things were the 10000 years before that

Post: #38

A few years or a decade ago, given the fact that most racism was against Jews and other truly victimized groups, I would have said no, ban hate speech wherever.

But seeing where we are today and which groups receive most of the racism accusations (no, not talking about Ayatollah Khamenei, Tea Party and Geert Wilders who all imo really are racist and probably don't need to be censored, only despised), I say fuck that shit. Free speech is in serious danger and we could use less political correctness.

Post: #39

(04-05-2012 01:55 AM)lavidaloca Wrote:  We all descend from the same specie. It's not as though white people descend from zebras, black people from gorillas, asian people from insert arbitrary animal here. I really have no problem with people being jailed for making racial remarks. Everyone should be treated equally.

And who decides which remarks are 'racial'? What if the remark is based on facts?

I noticed the flag. Are you from Cuba?

Post: #40

(04-05-2012 06:26 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  A few years or a decade ago, given the fact that most racism was against Jews and other truly victimized groups, I would have said no, ban hate speech wherever.

You don't know too many jews, do you?

Post: #41

(04-05-2012 06:57 AM)assman Wrote:  

(04-05-2012 01:55 AM)lavidaloca Wrote:  

I noticed the flag. Are you from Cuba?

haha no. I am Canadian... I just spend my summers in Cuba. I guess the post was kind of ironic coupled with a Cuban flag beside my name.

Post: #42

(04-04-2012 04:58 PM)Roosh Wrote:  It may be surprising to Americans that in some European countries you're not allowed to say or write "hatred" against specific ethnic groups. Do you believe this is a model that the US should follow?

The European approach is completely hypocritical.You would be astonished to realize the amount of underlying racism and public display of it(not only in private conversations).You just did not realize it because you did not speak the local language.Europe is not PC at all(except UK maybe).You will see the most extreme views in full swing(radical right and radical left) which is not allowed in USA.

Post: #43

(04-05-2012 12:33 PM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  

(04-04-2012 04:58 PM)Roosh Wrote:  It may be surprising to Americans that in some European countries you're not allowed to say or write "hatred" against specific ethnic groups. Do you believe this is a model that the US should follow?

The European approach is completely hypocritical.You would be astonished to realize the amount of underlying racism and public display of it(not only in private conversations).You just did not realize it because you did not speak the local language.Europe is not PC at all(except UK maybe).You will see the most extreme views in full swing(radical right and radical left) which is not allowed in USA.

+1

Post: #44

Free speech is free speech, and this is one of the greatest things about America.

And it's not like racist comments are unpunished in America. You won't be punished by the law like in many other Western countries, but you will suffer social sanction and possibly career consequences.

Full disclosure: I am a racist so my opinion may be biased.

Post: #45

The roots of restricting "hate" speech were actually imposed by the Allies in Europe after WW2 in order to prevent a Nazi insurgency by essentially eliminating every trace of our glorious Aryan overlor---er, those evil fascists. Of course in the modern era now that the idea of a neo-Nazi movement gaining real political power is ridiculous, they kept the restrictions on free speech and just extended it to act as a club for the governments to wield against opposition to their policies (i.e. let the entire population of Turkey into your country for cheap labor and then call everyone who complains a racist)

The irony of it all is that it doesn't seem to eliminate racist thoughts. I remember talking to this sweet-mannered petite blonde Czech girl, and listening to her go on about gypsies ripping off the state for welfare with the same gusto as a Fox news segment.

Post: #46

Freedom of speech is what made this country great so I think racist writings are necessary evils although I don't agree with them.

Post: #47

(04-05-2012 01:42 PM)Thorfinnsson Wrote:  And it's not like racist comments are unpunished in America. You won't be punished by the law like in many other Western countries, but you will suffer social sanction and possibly career consequences.

Case in point: John Derbyshire, who was fired by the National Review after writing this.

Despite all the emoting that came in response to the article, there was no real criticism on the merits (at least not any that I've seen), but political correctness rules the day in the USA, and he was promptly axed (though I agree that he knew this would happen). Ironically, the same liberal elite calling for Derbyshire's head are probably giving their own children the same advice.

Will the uproar and his termination mean that parents won't give their kids similar warnings? Of course not. Same thing if you make these kinds of comments illegal. The discussion just goes underground. If the feminists succeeded in outlawing Roissy, Roosh, etc. content, would guys stop talking about it? No, we'd just be more careful about who we talked to.

Post: #48

It is good to see unanimous support here for free speech.

Women are natural supporters for the suppression of offensive, hateful speech. Say something off-color, offensive but true to a group of women, and they will say, "that's terrible, how can you say that?" Giving women a voice in public affairs has ironically curtailed free speech as a whole; we are more trepidacious about saying anything offensive when women are just waiting to scold us, for saying anything untoward.*

If a man ever insinuates to me that something should never be said because, despite being true, it's offensive, I can't see him as anything but a huge pussy. But that sort of behavior is par for the course for women. I've always felt that in the company of men, one should be free to discuss anything and everything honestly.

*Women will drop all pretense of morality and 'tolerance' when they dig you. It's happened countless times that I've made casually racist/xenophobic jokes, and the girl will say "Ohmygod, you're racist!" And then I crack a couple more and she can't help laughing, and she loves it. She feels liberated, because she won't have to worry about being politically correct around me and can speak freely. And she's turned on by the fact that I just don't care about her bullshit beliefs, that I'm content to do my own thing regardless of what she says.

Post: #49

yes.

i'm horrified by the thought police crackdown in the UK. prison time for saying 'nigger' on twitter. football players hounded for shit talk ON THE FIELD. some late stage end of civilisation decadence that we indulge political correctness like this.

the terrible thing is i would be very wary of airing these thoughts off the internet. more and more you feel compelled to step forward denounce the ultimate sin (calling people nasty names apparently) along with all the other right thinkers

Post: #50

Every country or race for the most part think of themselves as superior in one way or another. Yes I am generalizing here, but putting down people is a no no in my books.

Blacks calling each other brothers or sisters has a racial feel too. It separates groups. Same goes with italians calling other Italians paisanos etc. not having an anglophone name can be a negative to some wasps.

I say no but people will still use terms to separate people in a negative way