Post: #1

It was recommended by scotian in another thread...

Worthless: The Indispensable Guide to Choosing the Right Major (Amazon)

I thought I'd take a look since my brother is in high school. The first thing I did after reading it was ship him a copy.

Quote:"Worthless is the single most important book young men and women can read before they attend college. While teachers, guidance counselors and even parents are afraid to tell you the truth in an effort to spare your feelings, “Worthless” delivers a blunt and real-world assessment about the economic realities and consequences of choosing various degrees with a necessary and tough fatherly love. Don’t lie to yourself. And certainly don’t waste four years of your youth and thousands of dollars in tuition on a worthless degree. Buy this book and understand why it is important you choose the right major. The book itself could be the wisest investment you ever make."

I was already guiding my brother to do a STEM major if he wants to go to college, but this book really hammers it home and makes it clear that you'd be an idiot to get a liberal arts degree.

Afterwards I read the following article about college graduates not being able to find a job:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/specia...35745.html

Every sob story in that article was buy someone who graduated with---yup---a worthless major. Big industry shouldn't get a pass, but higher education is creating a generation of youth with absolutely no skills that employers want to pay for.

I will review this book in full on the blog later, but I wanted to drop it now because it's one of those important books that young guys need to read. Even if you're out of college, it's quick and entertaining.

Post: #2

Another option is proffesional designations that can be pursued outside college while working. Since they are so specific to job requirements in a particular fileld employers often look for them in a candidate in addition to a degree since it indicates they have some understand of the field.

Usually much cheaper than a degree, and a lot of them are more worthwhile than people realise - though some are doubtless a fraudulent way for industry groups to raise money.

Post: #3

I'm giving this to my young relatives in high school.

I always explain it in terms of keeping options open. If you study maths or engineering, you can easily get into eg. economics, computer science, management and a host of other subjects afterwards.

It doesn't work the other way around.

Kids don't know what they want to do with their lives at that age. The more fundamental their course of study, the more paths they can choose from further down the line.

Post: #4

(04-04-2012 09:22 AM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  Another option is proffesional designations that can be pursued outside college while working. Since they are so specific to job requirements in a particular fileld employers often look for them in a candidate in addition to a degree since it indicates they have some understand of the field.

Usually much cheaper than a degree, and a lot of them are more worthwhile than people realise - though some are doubtless a fraudulent way for industry groups to raise money.

Vocational training should be pushed much harder in the US.

Strong vocational training is one of the main reasons for Germany's continued economic success.

Post: #5

I suck at STEM related crap, it's not for me. And I think that's big issue with the premise of these books (are few writers have been harping on this for a while). I used to want to study Law, now I want to major in Economics and Finance which I'm really interested in. But even that's just a back up for my online ventures. Unless you're doing pre-Law (every university in Australia offers law as an under-grad, so it's not relevant) or want to be a teacher, an Arts degree is worthless here. Yeah that sounds harsh, but down here we have lots of different degree names. Bachelor of Commerce, Law, Medicine and Surgery (undergraduate Med course)Science, Biomedicine, Engineering etcetera. Which basically leaves Arts degrees with stuff like History, Politics, Literature, Gender Studies and the like which is the stuff people should avoid.

Though even a lot of stuff in the science-related majors are worthless. Unless you want to do psychology or become a Doctor (fierce as hell competition), there just aren't any decent jobs. A Chemistry or Biology (sorry Roosh) or Physics major is all well and good, but it won't get you a decent job unless you do a Bachelors of Engineering or Pharmacy or Medicine or whatever instead.

This might not make sense because I'm tired as fuck, but half of the Science related majors are worthless. Like, so many kids I know want to do a Bachelors of Biomedicine if they don't get into undergrad Med. And if they don't get into a postgrad Med, they're fucked because they're just aren't any jobs in Biomedicine.

/rant

Post: #6

P Dog: The book recommends against general biology (and psychology as well).

The time is gone to go to college, major in something easy, and "do what you love." A job is a job. Unless you start your own business, that's what you have to treat it as.

Post: #7

PDog. Is the reason you aren't into STEM majors because you dislike Maths? If so be careful with Economics. In advanced, and even in basic, Economics there is some really hardcore maths involved. It's not like you study Freakonomics or simillar books. You have to go right to the (mathematical) source of any ideas. I loved Economics, but that's only because I am a Maths freak. It was one of the few subjects I ever really "got" at a fundamental level.

Post: #8

Does the book focus mainly on the US, or does it have a global focus, for those not living stateside?

And for those who have entrepreneurial ambitions, what program in academia (if there are any), gives you the best training for that?

Post: #9

PDog, be careful about giving up and saying you suck at something. A lot of the time people who think they suck at a 'hard' subject like maths simply haven't had good or engaging teachers. The way maths is taught usually sucks. With the right teacher / materials you'd be amazed at how much easier hard subjects can get.

Post: #10

(04-04-2012 10:04 AM)the_conductor Wrote:  Does the book focus mainly on the US, or does it have a global focus, for those not living stateside?

And for those who have entrepreneurial ambitions, what program in academia (if there are any), gives you the best training for that?

I know a lot of successful entrepreneurs. Most of them have degrees in computer science, engineering or business/management - with a handful of political science and history grads mixed in.

Keep in mind too that a lot of successful ventures have come from STEM grads who have been involved in research and come up with ways to commercialise whatever their professors or collaborators were working on at their university.

Post: #11

(04-04-2012 10:18 AM)Caligula Wrote:  PDog, be careful about giving up and saying you suck at something. A lot of the time people who think they suck at a 'hard' subject like maths simply haven't had good or engaging teachers. The way maths is taught usually sucks. With the right teacher / materials you'd be amazed at how much easier hard subjects can get.

Thats so true.

When i was at uni, most of my classmates failed in accounting modules. I decided to hire a personal tutor and see if i would beat these modules. The accounting tutor that i had hired made things so easy that i couldnt understand why i failed the first time,i just killed the module at my second chance.

The world is becoming easier and easier, young cats, there is no reason for you to be broke in your 30s. You have all the info in the world, use it to your advantage.

Post: #12

Fuck yes, I've been saying this shit for years, and these young tards won't listen. Get a degree that you can make money on, and not be miserable, then pursue your useless interests in a minor, or take a couple classes a semester while you are gainfully employed.

Personally, I'd love to get a PhD in history, philosophy, astronomy, or psychology (to be a Hannibal Lector mind-fucker), but these just don't pay the bills. I should already have an honorary one in vaginacology, but can't find a school to accept my OJT.

Right now, because the fucking retards, like high school counselors pushed crap degrees, America is hurting for tech labor....or will be soon. We have a bunch of educated people out of work. Funny, because a welder I work with got laughed at by his educated peers, but he is making $200K, and not busting his ass. Funny how the world turns. I wonder if those with philosophy degrees can use a logic table to figure out why the fuck they are unemployed.

Why listen to a H.S. school counselor anyway? It's not like they got far in life themselves. And don't listen to your heart either, that's what women do, and look at how fucked up they are. Jus' sayin'.

Anyway, my uneducated ass is gonna check my fat bank account online and count my blessings. Peace!

Post: #13

(04-04-2012 10:35 AM)pitt Wrote:  

(04-04-2012 10:18 AM)Caligula Wrote:  PDog, be careful about giving up and saying you suck at something. A lot of the time people who think they suck at a 'hard' subject like maths simply haven't had good or engaging teachers. The way maths is taught usually sucks. With the right teacher / materials you'd be amazed at how much easier hard subjects can get.

Thats so true.

When i was at uni, most of my classmates failed in accounting modules. I decided to hire a personal tutor and see if i would beat these modules. The accounting tutor that i had hired made things so easy that i couldnt understand why i failed the first time,i just killed the module at my second chance.

The world is becoming easier and easier, young cats, there is no reason for you to be broke in your 30s. You have all the info in the world, use it to your advantage.

Exactly the same thing happened in my first year of university. I took an economics class and had a hard time following lectures. Half way through the year I didn't even bother with classes since I was so far behind. I resigned myself to sucking at economics.

A week before the exam I was worried that I'd never catch up in time. Determined to not fail I started working my way through the textbook with some help from friends who were more advanced in econ. After a few days of intensive study I couldn't understand why I had struggled so much with what now seemed crystal clear.

Ended up with an A for that class.

Post: #14

I thought it was common sense to not pick those dumb majors.

Post: #15

In an attempt to back my major (poly sci)..
I agree that most people under my major arent gonna amount to shit.

I'm hoping my various overseas internships will put me ahead of the game.Also..Military officers right out of college get paid more money that they know what to do with. You manage yourself right and you'll be fine


Eventually I do plan on going back to college for a hard science..just to see If I can do it.
I'm jealous of older friends that graduated engineering degrees and are banking rolls of money before they hit 30.

But again..They don't have mobile lifestyles either.

Post: #16

edit

Post: #17

Well this, along with Roosh's books, would've been nice tools to have a decade ago.

Post: #18

If nobody reads that book. Just tell those who want to listen to stick with math and science in school. Business is a second, while if academics ain't your strong suit, go for a trade. Not tool and die for example where cheap labour in china is messing all those who made a killing in this trade not so long ago.

Post: #19

Quote:I wonder if those with philosophy degrees can use a logic table to figure out why the fuck they are unemployed.

Post: #20

Hell, even high school is probably a waste of time if you're just planning to go to an average college and get a liberal arts degree and you don't play sports. Better off pursuing hobbies and getting an apprenticeship or internship. Then when it's time to leave home you can actually support yourself comfortably and not immediately get fucked by a mountain of debt you'll be paying off for the next decade.

Wish I did that.

Post: #21

I have a degree in the arts, which really isn't saying much. I wouldn't trade any of my experiences but I will say that the most successful people (I know) with art degree's (fine arts, performance etc.) are either self employed or they juggle lots of jobs (and struggle hard). Essentially what they charge you in the amount for a degree you could learn through an atelier system for far far less. I learned this when I was studying art, I found an eastern european man who ran a workshop in nyc and I learned more about art and drawing in one month than I did a whole semester (I only paid about $50 for instruction).

I want to give this book a read, I was planning on going to graduate school for writing/perrformance but I don't want the debt to be honest. I'm thankful that I was able to go to college practically for free (grants, scholarships). One thing that's really interested me was programming and civil engineering, I've used my drawing skills in situations concerning architecture but it's something I've never really thought of following through until now.

Post: #22

PDog,

What level math are you in? I'm a senior in high school here in the US, and I HATED all the math classes I took (Functions, Statistics and Trigonometry, AP Stats, and Pre-Calc) up until this year. I did well in the classes, but I was always disinterested in them.

This year I'm taking AP Calculus BC, and wow. Completely different than all those other classes. The stuff you do in Calculus is actually fun. Even the most basic tenets of calc, like derivatives and integrals are such fascinating tools. Finding the area underneath a curve - pretty cool by itself. Then, once you realize the implications this has in regards to things like distance traveled, and begin using it for things like solids of rotation - it gets fucking awesome.

Like I said, I used to fall asleep in my math classes. The shit was just so boring. But once you get into the higher level stuff, and you see the everyday uses it has, its really interesting stuff.

Roosh on the other hand, props to you for getting a Chem degree. The one Chemistry course I took my sophomore year was frustrating. It was like addition except with symbols and letters and all that shit thrown in. Once we got to Organic chem, I stopped even trying. Isomers and the like blew my fucking brain.

Quick side question Roosh: I'm originally from Alexandria, and I've got a bunch of friends who go to UMD-College Park. I think I remember you saying somewhere that you graduated from UMD - were you there for the legendary riots of 2002? A couple of my friends' older brothers were there, and they have the craziest stories.

Post: #23

MHaes: I actually majored in microbiology, but I had to take two semesters of organic chemistry.

I graduated in 2001. There were smaller riots then, but I missed the 2002 one.

Post: #24

(04-04-2012 09:46 AM)Roosh Wrote:  P Dog: The book recommends against general biology (and psychology as well).

The time is gone to go to college, major in something easy, and "do what you love." A job is a job. Unless you start your own business, that's what you have to treat it as.

I disagree. I believe that even if the statistics say you will have a hard time finding a job you should still pursue something that you would enjoy. Working in a field that you don't like will lead you to be miserable. The real key is to separate yourself from the rest of the competition that is applying for the same job. Majoring in something just because it will provide a good job will lead you to do something drastic such as quitting on a moment's notice, selling everything you own, and traveling the world while writing books and articles on gaming women and travel experiences. Sound familiar?

On the other hand, I do agree that some of these college majors are useless. The kid who is majoring in literature with a double minor in political science and history...really...what are you going to do with that.
In my opinion, a college degree is becoming the new high school diploma. In the next ten years it will be hard to find a decent job without a degree much as it is to find one now without a diploma. That being said, in many cases, a degree is a degree. I would advise getting one in the cheapest manner possible (except through the purely online educational institutions).

Post: #25

The problem of higher education at the moment is the inflation of degrees because the baby boomers pressed hard so that their offpsrings could get a degree without any qualifications.This has led to a decrease of degree value in the market.Add to this the mass education industry.The core of the problem is the lack of will of really competent people to cooperate with the incompetent offsprings as equals it is a bomb in the heart of the system as I see it in Greece at least.Why bother? thinks someone if I have to share the result of my work with somebody inefficient?
Germans simply refused to broaden higher education so much.Only 20% of German population hold university degrees one of the lowest percentages in Europe.