Post: #1

If you had the option to learn to speak one or the other fluently, all else being equal, what would you choose?

Arabic or Farsi?

Career-wise Arabic seems to make more sense, the lingua franca of the Muslim world in addition to vast oil wealth of Arab countries (combined they account for well over half global oil reserves). Arabs are pretty low on the civlization scale, when you see how they behave, though.

Iranian girls are way hotter and Iran a more civilized country, but that's about the only advantage I can think of.

What would you pick?

Post: #2

Arabic definitely. It never made sense to learn a language that was native to only one country (Polish, Norwegian, Greek, etc) when you could learn a language that has a much bigger global presence (Spanish, Arabic, Russian, etc.) Farsi might only be useful in Iran and some Central Asian countries.

Post: #3

First, you should be aware that Arabic is affected by a phenomenon called diglossia. It means that written standard arabic and the arabic you can hear on news channels like Al jazeera is quite different from the colloquial language used on the streets. Almost each country has its own dialect and the differences are said to be very marked between the extremes (Moroccan arabic is reported to be mutually unintelligible with Lebanese arabic for exemple). So if you ask a question to someone in the street in Algiers or Damascus, even though you'll probably be understood, you'll not understand the answer unless you've also studied the local dialect.

See that link for more detail: http://eprints.ibu.edu.ba/38/1/FLTAL%202...9-p255.pdf

Quote:Students of Arabic as a foreign language at some point, however, must learn two languages because
Arabic is a ―diglossic‖ language in which literate speakers use one form of Arabic as the written language but
another for use in daily life. Thus, a student studying classical Arabic in order to read the Quran will discover
that Saudi Arabians do not communicate using this language. Similarly, a student who has studied the modern
variant of classical Arabic known as Modern Standard Arabic (MSA), also known as literary or standard Arabic,
will find that upon landing in an Arab country his or her attempts to speak MSA will be met with quizzical
looks—or worse, laughter.

Arabic isn't the lingua franca of the muslim world. You'll have a hard time finding a fluent Arabic speaker in Turkey or Iran who's not an arab (or a cleric) himself. In a lot of non Arab muslim countries people claim they know arabic while in fact they can only recite parts of the Quran without understanding it.

Personnally I've been learning Farsi for more than three years now and I really don't regret all the time I've invested in it.

Persian is used as a lingua franca in Iran, Afghanistan, Tajikistan and parts of Uzbekistan (Samarkand, Bukhara). There are several dialects too, but they're not an obstacle to comprehension. The combo Farsi + Russian makes you the king of Eurasia

Anyway, both are great languages. Once you reach a decent level in one, the other gets much more accessible as there's an important vocabulary overlap.

Post: #4

I don't know anything about Arabic, but I speak Farsi fluently. I think it is a somewhat easier language to learn, relatively speaking. At least superficially to have basic conversational skills. To carry a full on conversation will take time, but that is with any language.

Persian girls in America are for the most part absolutely horrible, so I hope it is not for that reason.

Post: #5

Slubu and Tresor,
How and why did you two learn to speak Farsi? What kind of difficulties did you encounter and what kind of progress have you made in your studies?
Thanks in advance.

Post: #6

I just wanted to learn a middle-eastern language, like Eljefe.

Basically what I did first was learning the fundamentals of the language with a few native speakers and a solid grammar reference. Once I felt I had the basics under my belt I started reading two or three news articles from BBC Persian's website every day and learnt all the new words I came across. I admit it was a long, frustrating and tedious way to learn the language but it gave me a pretty solid foundation.

Now discussing/joking with native speakers is relatively easy even though I still make a lot of grammatical mistakes and I'd say I can read contemporary novels/short stories without needing to look up thirty words on every single page.

To learn the slang and colloquial expressions I launched a facebook page called « Practical French idioms for Iranians ». It's become quite popular so now I have thousands of Farsi speakers come and translate useful everyday idioms into my mother tongue for free haha !

The major difficulties are the lack of interesting ressources to learn from and more importantly the fact that Farsi belongs to a whole different cultural background. The way you express yourself is also quite different (not necessarily harder) and it requires time and practice to become familiar with it.

Post: #7

Tresor is right about the many dialects of the Arabic language.
Most countries with native Arabic speakers can understand the Egyptian dialect. If you learn for conversational purposes, I recommend spending time either studying in Egypt, or learning the Egyptian dialect. However, in my experience and opinion, Arabic as spoken in Lebanon and Jordan is a much more enjoyable to speak. The words are smoother and the accents are very nice. But you won't notice until you are familiar with the language. I don't think I could have learned Arabic without being in the environment. If you're just using a book or classroom, it is too difficult to become familiar with the various dialects etc.

Also, regarding your comment about the way Arabs behave (low on the 'civilization scale'), you mostly find that in the North African countries -- Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Algeria. The more "sophisticated" Arabs I would place in Jordan and Lebanon. The Gulf states to some extent, but they are still governed by very strict laws and do absurd things to their people. If you're really interested in putting in the work and actually using the language for something, go spend six months in Jordan and take an immersion course from a Jordanian teacher. The culture is equally important when you're learning the language.

Side note: most Arabs (Lebanon, Jordan, etc) dislike the Egyptians and other North Africans and consider them lower class people.

Post: #8

(04-08-2012 05:09 PM)Smitty Wrote:  Tresor is right about the many dialects of the Arabic language.
Most countries with native Arabic speakers can understand the Egyptian dialect. If you learn for conversational purposes, I recommend spending time either studying in Egypt, or learning the Egyptian dialect. However, in my experience and opinion, Arabic as spoken in Lebanon and Jordan is a much more enjoyable to speak. The words are smoother and the accents are very nice. But you won't notice until you are familiar with the language. I don't think I could have learned Arabic without being in the environment. If you're just using a book or classroom, it is too difficult to become familiar with the various dialects etc.

Also, regarding your comment about the way Arabs behave (low on the 'civilization scale'), you mostly find that in the North African countries -- Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Algeria. The more "sophisticated" Arabs I would place in Jordan and Lebanon. The Gulf states to some extent, but they are still governed by very strict laws and do absurd things to their people. If you're really interested in putting in the work and actually using the language for something, go spend six months in Jordan and take an immersion course from a Jordanian teacher. The culture is equally important when you're learning the language.

Side note: most Arabs (Lebanon, Jordan, etc) dislike the Egyptians and other North Africans and consider them lower class people.

Thanks for the tip on arabic language.

My check list:
english(no, english is not my native language)
russian
swedish.
french
spanish
arabic
swahili
chinese
tagalog.

Master one every 1 year or so.

Post: #9

(04-03-2012 11:30 AM)hoops330 Wrote:  Slubu and Tresor,
How and why did you two learn to speak Farsi? What kind of difficulties did you encounter and what kind of progress have you made in your studies?
Thanks in advance.

Don't think I can help you out on this one, as my parents taught me as a kid. So I didn't really need to "learn" it so to speak. I do know a few people though that have picked up enough to be slightly conversational with ease.

On a side note a few nights ago started speaking Farsi to this Afghani girl who was pretty hot. So it reaches past just Persians.

Post: #10

First thing I would do is expose yourself to both through a tiny bit of music, spoken conversation, media and see if you notice that you naturally enjoy one more than the other. If so, choose that one.

If not, choose arabic, because of the reasons you listed: spoken by many more people, gives access to more business opportunity.

Post: #11

I like to go the bulldozer route when learning a language. Basically clear about a quarter terabyte on your hard drive and torrent whatever you can; movies, pimsluers, TV shows, books, music tend to be good. Then spend like two months and just absorb the media for maybe an hour or two a day. Burn some CDs and listen to it on the way to work. I did that with German for like four years. Worked great.

Post: #12

Arab cultures tend to be among the most hospitable of any, in my experience. If your judgment of the behavior of Arabs is based on what you see on the news, think about how narrow a perspective that can be. It's a different culture. Don't judge it by the standards that are ingrained in you by the Western world, because that would be as fruitless as judging the West by standards of Arab culture.

I speak Farsi fluently, but I don't really like typical Iranian girls -- they're cute but superficial, and often insipid -- so there's no benefit for me there.

Both languages can open doors for you career-wise.

If I were to pick either Arabic or Farsi, I would pick Farsi. It sounds prettier.

I strongly suggest that you consult this video for an expert opinion on the subject:

Post: #13

I learned Arabic (Modern Standard) in the military and have spent some time in Arab countries. Learning Modern Standard Arabic (MSA) is a great way to start as you'll have an abundance of practice material from things like news, movies, and newspapers. People will be able to understand you but you'll sound as if it was someone speaking the Queen's English to an American. But not a bad way to start.

The Levantine dialect is fairly close to MSA and widely understood. Plus it's the dialect spoken in Beirut and we all know what's in that city.

Maha can explain it better and she's nice to look at. Her YouTube channel is a good way to learn some survival phrases and a little bit about the culture.

Although if you see Arabs as "low on the civilization scale" it may be more difficult to learn as you simply might not be into it. The military originally slotted me to learn Mandarin but I am just not into Asia at all and did not enjoy my classes. Switching over to a language and culture I enjoyed and was interested in made learning a difficult language enjoyable and less of a challenge. So you may want to take your motivation into account.

I leave you with Myriam:
Boner Test 1

Boner Test 2

Post: #14

polymath,
I agree that persian sounds better--smoother. However, there is no doubt which language opens more doors in today's world--that is arabic.

Hades,
Great approach. I think that is the way to go.

Deuce,
Great videos brother. Never heard Myriam Fares before. Nice videos.

BOTH language certainly have great music.

Post: #15

ElJefe,

Here is some popular music from persian and arabic. You can use these songs to compare the sounds and flow of each language, as well as some of the common beats in each languages' music. Some of the videos are super cheesy, so just try to ignore the visuals and just listen to the audio:

To all my arabic or persian speakers out there, I'm sure you'll recognize some of these:

First persian:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Fv8b6a-vNQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCfMcX12aVg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4pPAr5YS-Y

Then arabic:

(starting with the King Amr Diab with habibi ya nour el ein)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXWIP61noeA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKITZzH6zU4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNH6o9fT_6s

I tried to pick decent stuff from both languages so you can judge their sounds and flow objectively. What do you guys think?

Post: #16

I would suggest learning Fus-haa (classical arabic) to you. It is hard but extremely structured. Once you learn that you will know better arabic than a lot of average arabs lol.. And if you can learn it from a scholar, like somebody suggested above, that would be even better. Go live in Jordan and immerse yourself in arabic!

The arabic grammar rules are all derive from the Quran. Learning Fus-haa is the best and the most effective way of learning arabic.

Once you know arabic, you will already know all the alphabets for Farsi. Arabic has had a HUGE influence on farsi/persian.

Good luck.

Post: #17

Individuals from the old families in Gulf States here traditionally learn 4 languages: English, Farsi, Arabic and Urdu.

If you learn Arabic, it opens doors to Farsi and consequently Urdu which can also be used on the Indian subcontinent. It also spoken by a far larger population.

If you plan to do business, most Arabs in the Gulf would prefer to speak to you in English but will be very hospitable and accommodating when conversing with you in Arabic.

Post: #18

El Jefe,

Did you ever end up learning persian or arabic? If so, which one did you choose and how's that going?