Post: #1

I'm not a member on any bodybuilding forums, but I know a few guys in here know what they are talking about, so perhaps they can offer some advice before I sign up for one.

I like deadlifting, and had been doing well, but today I hit a snag.

Until now, I had been deadlifting with my back at perhaps a 30-40 degree angle to the floor. I have a sway back, it curves inwards, relatively short legs and relatively long arms. With this angle I could do a decent amount of weight and I never had pains like I am experiencing today.

Today, I watched a clip on exrx.net (click for vid), and decided to adjust my form so my back would be more parallel with the floor, keep my butt raised, etc.

The result was sharp pain immediately after I performed each set. I cut the weight I usually use by 15-25%. I did a 5x5 then walked around the room. I wouldn't say each step was agony, but it was close. I had to hold on to the door frame to support myself, standing was very uncomfortable. The only comfort was to lie down.

I finished my workout which included hyper-extensions and reverse leg-raises (lying on stomach on bench, then lifting legs to train lower back) and by the end of it, basically felt fine.

Can someone tell me what could be going on?

Is it supposed to be this painful?

If not, is it possible the technique shown in the video is not for me and I should stick to what I used before?

If the technique is correct for all types, and it's simply because I'm not strong enough, how come I can lift the damn weight then?

Post: #2

I struggled with deadlifts when I first tried them out, and ended up straining my back pretty badly, I believe due to having improper form.

I decided to get a personal trainer for a session, with a guy that was recommended to me by a friend who's a super ripped body builder. Anyways, I feel that my form is improving every time I do them. I think doing dead lifts with bad technique can be really bad for the back.

What I'm wondering is how often should I be deadlifting? Before seeing this P.T., I was lifting every day doing a routine that was split between chest/back one day, shoulders/biceps/triceps/traps the next, I sprinkled in lower body stuff and abs, but mostly my focus was on that.

My bodybuilder friend who I said is absolutely ripped to shreds, told me I need to start focusing on squats and deadlifts. Since seeing the P.T., I'm lifting 3 times a week, squating everytime I lift, but only doing dealifts 1 day a week. I squat with less weight on the same day as I dead lift, but I increasing my deadlift total by 5 pounds every week.

I'm wondering if it would be more beneficial to do at least a couple sets of deadlifts on those other two days that I lift, or if once a week with a 5X5 set is enough.

I know squats and deadlifts are supposed to get your testostorone levels jumping and get you big, but my prior work out routine was so upper body focused, that I almost feel like my upper body (arms esp.) have gotten smaller or stayed the same since I switched to a squat focused regimine. My lower body had definitely noticably gotten bigger/stronger, and I'm thinking maybe it will just take a little time before my upper body catches up.

Post: #3

This is entirely a guess but by doing them improperly before you might have strengthened some muscles while leaving your other core muscles weak. The result is an ability to move the weight but not to support it.

@OG

I only do deads once a week, I do a lot.of weight though and my body just wont tolerate that much weight more than once a week.

Chef In Jeans
A culinary website for men

Post: #4

Where was the pain? I've had problems from deadlifting in my hip area I think its the gluteus medius or minimus I worked it with a tennis ball for a while but It would hurt when I deadlifted. right now my ankle/hamstring is bothering me which is weird.

Post: #5

(03-29-2012 04:37 PM)ElJefe Wrote:  If not, is it possible the technique shown in the video is not for me and I should stick to what I used before?

Correct.

Watch a dozen powerlifting videos on YouTube.

Guys all have different pulling styles.

Remember, too, that form is designed to give you maximum strength while avoiding injury.

You lost strength and hurt yourself.

Thus, the form - despite being on a good site - was wrong.

Lifting is highly individualized and based on a person's joint mobility, relative muscular strengths, and leverages.

Do what works best for you.

Post: #6

When you dead lift you have to start with your hips moving forward first, and your shoulders should be back (like you're trying to show how big your chest is). If your ass comes up first the weight transfers to your lower back and that is not good at all.

Post: #7

@Eljefe, use your phone to record a vid from the side (profile view) and i can give you some feedback

Post: #8

Post: #9

everyone is different - your body will tell you what works best for you. pain means its telling you to stop. try doing lighter weights to feel what you are most comfortable doing.

Post: #10

One spot where a lot of guys go wrong is over training on deadlifts. Deadlifts should be done w/ high weight, low reps and sets. The basic starting strength program proscribes 1 set of 5, but the weight should be high enough that the 5th rep is super difficult. Deadlifts are harder to recover from as well, so doing them multiple times per week is not advised.

I highly recommend picking up a copy of Rippetoe's Starting Strength. Here's an excerpt from the deadlift chapter to get you started:

http://startingstrength.com/articles/pul...ppetoe.pdf

Post: #11

ElJefe, it sure sounds like you did not maintain lumbar extension. It's a lot easier to maintain with your butt lower, and you see people do this a lot, kind of squatting their deadlift. Butt high is better form, but a lot easier to round your low back because of the much greater hamstring tension and pull on the pelvis.

As was suggested earlier, if you post a video, people can point out where you're going wrong.

Post: #12

word, rippetoe's technique is very different from Tate's. Now I am confused.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syt7A23YnpA

Post: #13

(03-30-2012 10:10 AM)thekid Wrote:  word, rippetoe's technique is very different from Tate's. Now I am confused.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syt7A23YnpA

I'm at work, so can't watch the Tate video, but from the title, it looks like its showing a wide stance "sumo" style deadlift. Rippetoe teaches a conventional style deadlift. Both are fine, as long as they are done correctly. There are pros and cons associated with each.

http://primallifter.com/comparing-sumo-a...deadlifts/

Post: #14

Deadlifts..... Overated.

Nobody even has clear consensus thus far on DLs in this post thus far. If DLs are so variable to body type and technique I do not understand why it is so vouched for if so many ppl fuck their shit up doing it. I only do partial DLs and I never bring my back into it IMO people get ego crazy and force their back into it to push get more weight in. I push off with my mid section I do not know what muscles they would be but I push out more-so with my thighs, ass/glutes, etc. I never go to the floor tho I do it in a squat rack with the catch bars a bit above my ankles where I can do a smooth movement in explosives bursts. I don't max out tho because I find if I start getting crazy with weight I start fucking up with my form and my back gets into it.

Meatheads aren't always right either I also got advice from a yolked up polish dude whom said my DL form was akward and wondered why I did not do full ones. I tried what he said and fucked my shit up. Your back is delicate you fuck it up bad once and that's it.

They should change the name of it also. I aint lifting nothing when doing them. I am blasting which IMO gets you hyped and your T-levels running wild. They should be called powerblasts or deadblasts. Because anytime I see dudes "lift" they look mad akward or in pain. Just my observations. I am sure many won't agree with my views but I am not a huge fan of Dls tho - I feel there are better ways to achieve those types of gains.

But the OP might be onto something I also have long ass monkey arms. I assume we would have a shorter range of motion vs somebody with normal or small arms?

Post: #15

Thanks, guys. Will post a vid Sunday.

I tried looking at myself in the mirror today just doing 80lbs, and noticed my back, swayed as I mentioned, in fact was convex (curving outwards). I put my butt down, and chest forward and it fell into place much easier. It seems Assman's diagnosis is right, but will post vid nonetheless.

My hamstrings are VERY tight and the past week I've been stretching them 2-3 times a day. Can't even touch my toes. Quads are tight fuckers, too.

Did 300lbs squats today for reps and back felt fine, my form was on point, especially after I took my shoes off. So we'll see Sunday.

Post: #16

(03-30-2012 10:10 AM)thekid Wrote:  word, rippetoe's technique is very different from Tate's. Now I am confused.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syt7A23YnpA

I wouldn't place to much emphasis on what these guys say. I respect them both but if you truly want to learn how to do the compound lifts correctly you absolutely must find a dedicated powerlifting/strength oriented gym and speak to the trainers/owners on perfecting your technique.

You can only teach so much over the internet.

Post: #17

I recommend trap bar (if your guy has it) deadlifts myself.

When doing straight bar, I start from a pin on the power rack. I do Romanian dead lifts.

My hips are extremely tight. I've had deep tissue massage done on them. They just won't open up.

Thus, if I start with a bar from the ground my lower back loses is curve and "rounds." This puts me in an inferior position from both leverage and injury-prevention standpoints.

If it doesn't injure you and puts muscle on your glutes, ham strings, and upper back, then you're doing it right.

Post: #18

Do a few standard ass to ground bodyweight squats a day, slow reps, and your ligaments should loosen up in a week or so.

Post: #19

People here on the forum might tell you otherwise but if you want to protect yourself and stay healthy when you get older then deadlifts and squats, which actually builds more muscles than DL, are dangerous exercises.

weightlifting with a heavy barbell i.e. clean and jerk, DL, squats, bent over rows cannot be done in perfect form for every rep. the moment you get tired, your form will suffer and once your form suffers you are gonna snap some shit up in your back.

From what you wrote that sounds like a sprain, I had a back sprain due to DL a month ago and I still can't go to the gym.

listen to interviews of Dr. Sturat Mcgill aka dr. spine. You need a certain physique to do olympic style weightlifting, specially squats and DL, it is not a casual sport like basketball.

you know why they call it a deadlift? cause once you snap something up, you back will NEVER be the same and you can suffer from a bad back and chronic pain for the rest of your life. Don't believe me? ronnie coleman just did a massive spine surgery recently cause he blew some discs in his back due to heavy lifts back in the day.

Btw the same goes for the shoulder and knees. once you bust your shoulder, which is a highly complex mechanical limb, it will NEVER be the same again, so stay away from doing heavy upright rows.

anyway, you can study DL and squats but you cannot get a 100% correct form on every rep and it only takes one false move to crack something in your spine.

this is just advice, don't destroy yourself.

Post: #20

(03-31-2012 09:38 AM)metalhaze Wrote:  People here on the forum might tell you otherwise but if you want to protect yourself and stay healthy when you get older then deadlifts and squats, which actually builds more muscles than DL, are dangerous exercises.

weightlifting with a heavy barbell i.e. clean and jerk, DL, squats, bent over rows cannot be done in perfect form for every rep. the moment you get tired, your form will suffer and once your form suffers you are gonna snap some shit up in your back.

From what you wrote that sounds like a sprain, I had a back sprain due to DL a month ago and I still can't go to the gym.

listen to interviews of Dr. Sturat Mcgill aka dr. spine. You need a certain physique to do olympic style weightlifting, specially squats and DL, it is not a casual sport like basketball.

you know why they call it a deadlift? cause once you snap something up, you back will NEVER be the same and you can suffer from a bad back and chronic pain for the rest of your life. Don't believe me? ronnie coleman just did a massive spine surgery recently cause he blew some discs in his back due to heavy lifts back in the day.

Btw the same goes for the shoulder and knees. once you bust your shoulder, which is a highly complex mechanical limb, it will NEVER be the same again, so stay away from doing heavy upright rows.

anyway, you can study DL and squats but you cannot get a 100% correct form on every rep and it only takes one false move to crack something in your spine.

this is just advice, don't destroy yourself.

You can break your dick fucking.

Not every guy wants to go through life with 13 inch biceps.

Post: #21

I'm cutting the deadlift out of my routine. I found it to be very rewarding to see the weight come off the floor... but my back... damn. I'd feel it for a week, and not in the good way. Nothing I changed in my technique would make that go away.
Unless you absolutely need to do the deadlift, consider leaving it behind. If you're experiencing pain, yeah, try some tweaks with lighter weight, if that doesn't solve your problem, it's not worth hurting yourself.

Post: #22

(03-31-2012 02:48 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  You can break your dick fucking.

Not every guy wants to go through life with 13 inch biceps.

then do pull ups with a weight belt.

Again do DL, Squats and cleans at your own risk. just google Dr. Stuart Mcgill.

Unless you are a competitive powerlifter, once you snap some shit in your back IT WILL NEVER BE THE SAME AGAIN. you can end up being on a wheelchair by the time you are in your 50s-60s, It's not a joke.

Most russian olympic lifters train 80% of the time with very low weights concentrating on form only.


yes these moves will make you grow but the risk is too high, all it takes is one false rep in a 400 pound squat or DL and snap you are in bed for weeks with chronic back pain short of herniating a disc.

Post: #23

[Deleted]

Post: #24

(03-31-2012 04:11 PM)metalhaze Wrote:  

(03-31-2012 02:48 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  You can break your dick fucking.

Not every guy wants to go through life with 13 inch biceps.

then do pull ups with a weight belt.

Again do DL, Squats and cleans at your own risk. just google Dr. Stuart Mcgill.

Unless you are a competitive powerlifter, once you snap some shit in your back IT WILL NEVER BE THE SAME AGAIN. you can end up being on a wheelchair by the time you are in your 50s-60s, It's not a joke.

Most russian olympic lifters train 80% of the time with very low weights concentrating on form only.


yes these moves will make you grow but the risk is too high, all it takes is one false rep in a 400 pound squat or DL and snap you are in bed for weeks with chronic back pain short of herniating a disc.

You're comment about the russian olympic lifters is not really relevant. The olympic lifts (clean and jerk, and the snatch) are very technique intensive. The amount lifted is limited by both absolute strength as well as technique, so it makes sense to do a lot of technique focused training with lighter weights. However, olympic lifters also work extremely hard doing assistance exercises (anything that's not an olympic lift) to increase their absolute strength. There are tons of videos online of olympic lifters front and back squatting hundreds of kilos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLVxmMQLA...r_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...XBN6otN7lA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...o3VJg5670U

The deadlift is a strength move. There is lots of technique involved, but its really one of the most direct displays of absolute limit strength. If the lifter's goal is to gain strength and muscle size, heavy, compound lifts combined with good nutrition have been absolutely proven to be the most efficient method of achieving this goal.

Post: #25

It should NEVER hurt. Are you in a gym where you can drop the bar instead of having to lower it back down? THis is crucial for deadlifting heavy weights.