Post: #51

You are telling me you can scratch enough money together to make a move

[/quote]

That right there tells me that you're more privileged then you'll probably ever admit and have no idea what poor feels like. While Im not poor now, I'm certainly in no position to lose break my lease, loose my $1k deposit and pay to move across the country on a whim. Thats foolish, not "intrepid"

What makes much more sense is to use the last few months of my lease to save money and make plans that way I can make a move out of the area and NOT show up at a city jobless, broke, with no home. This is exactly what I'm doing.

Quote:My details are irrelevant though, the point is it can be done.

Details are always relevant.

Just how much you make is relevant. In some areas paying off what you've described could be less then $1000/mo and in others it could be well over $3000/mo.

What the business is, relative to your area, also makes a huge difference. If I tried to move to Maine and open up a lobster joint I'd most likely be shit out of luck real quick as I wouldn't stand out from the crowd and I'd get little to no business.


I think a lot of you guys happened to be in the right place at the right time but you aren't willing to admit that. Your ego wont let you. You want to claim that you hardworked your way though it, and while Im sure you put blood sweat and tears into what you did, there was still an uncontrollable factor that played a big part. Your unwillingness to admit this is why you think "its just that easy, go do it"

Chef In Jeans
A culinary website for men

Post: #52

(03-28-2012 04:49 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  I think a lot of you guys happened to be in the right place at the right time but you aren't willing to admit that. Your ego wont let you. You want to claim that you hardworked your way though it, and while Im sure you put blood sweat and tears into what you did, there was still an uncontrollable factor that played a big part. Your unwillingness to admit this is why you think "its just that easy, go do it"

I'm an entrepreneur by spirit, and have been involved in my own businesses since about age 9. I agree with you that a person can lean towards being reckless, and if you do there is a price to pay.

However for some of us, we only study the night before the exam. We only get off our ass during crisis. So in order to succeed, it has to really be on the line. All the time.

I went through decades of extreme and sometimes even dangerous hand to mouth poverty, punctuated by brief cycles of prosperity. Not only because I perhaps foolishly and stubbornly believed in my abilities. But because I'd given myself no other options. Sink or swim.

It took me ages plus ages to eventually "make it".

Some of us are entrepreneurs not because of careful planning, but simply by innate temperament. We would rather die trying our own thing than survive doing someone elses.

That kind of attitude will, I believe, eventually work. If you survive long enough.

Canada's David Wilcox:
"I'll admit I have been lazy
And I've been called crazy
In my time I've played and played
But I can get down
And quit foolin' around
When the weather gets rough
Situation gets tough"

Post: #53

(03-28-2012 05:30 PM)xsplat Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 04:49 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  I think a lot of you guys happened to be in the right place at the right time but you aren't willing to admit that. Your ego wont let you. You want to claim that you hardworked your way though it, and while Im sure you put blood sweat and tears into what you did, there was still an uncontrollable factor that played a big part. Your unwillingness to admit this is why you think "its just that easy, go do it"

I'm an entrepreneur by spirit, and have been involved in my own businesses since about age 9. I agree with you that a person can lean towards being reckless, and if you do there is a price to pay.

However for some of us, we only study the night before the exam. We only get off our ass during crisis. So in order to succeed, it has to really be on the line. All the time.

I went through decades of extreme and sometimes even dangerous hand to mouth poverty, punctuated by brief cycles of prosperity. Not only because I perhaps foolishly and stubbornly believed in my abilities. But because I'd given myself no other options. Sink or swim.

It took me ages plus ages to eventually "make it".

Some of us are entrepreneurs not because of careful planning, but simply by innate temperament. We would rather die trying our own thing than survive doing someone elses.

That kind of attitude will, I believe, eventually work. If you survive long enough.

Canada's David Wilcox:
"I'll admit I have been lazy
And I've been called crazy
In my time I've played and played
But I can get down
And quit foolin' around
When the weather gets rough
Situation gets tough"

Not to mention it's more fun. You should get the same feeling going to work in the morning as you get when you walk into a casino.

If you don't like that stick with your weekly paycheck. As for me I haven't seen a payroll check in 20 years and don't want one and the bullshit that goes along with it.

Post: #54

Yo Chad,

Sorry if I seem like I'm busting you about this, I'm trying to be as helpful as I can.

Quote:That right there tells me that you're more privileged then you'll probably ever admit and have no idea what poor feels like. While Im not poor now, I'm certainly in no position to lose break my lease, loose my $1k deposit and pay to move across the country on a whim. Thats foolish, not "intrepid"

What makes much more sense is to use the last few months of my lease to save money and make plans that way I can make a move out of the area and NOT show up at a city jobless, broke, with no home. This is exactly what I'm doing.

This is a smart move, and shows you've got enough knowledge about money to be good enough with it.

Quote:What the business is, relative to your area, also makes a huge difference. If I tried to move to Maine and open up a lobster joint I'd most likely be shit out of luck real quick as I wouldn't stand out from the crowd and I'd get little to no business.

I'll jump to this bit, because here is where the key differential is between what I believe is your thinking and mine; you've said that 'being in the right place at the right time is crucial.' I don't disagree necessarily, but I believe you can make that happen.

Of course you aren't going to move to Maine and open up a lobster bar if there are millions of other people doing it (I don't know about the American food industry,) you find something with less competition and easier startup/scalability and so on. It is hard work, but once you start looking for opportunities, you start to see them in more places and more applications for them. Go to some business start-up venture and listen to people give presentations. Offer to help out in your spare time. Whatever.

At no point does anyone suggest you can start a business doing what you want, how you want to do it, with as little commitment as you can and 'make it.'

Quote:I think a lot of you guys happened to be in the right place at the right time but you aren't willing to admit that. Your ego wont let you. You want to claim that you hardworked your way though it, and while Im sure you put blood sweat and tears into what you did, there was still an uncontrollable factor that played a big part. Your unwillingness to admit this is why you think "its just that easy, go do it"

Quote:Details are always relevant.

Just how much you make is relevant. In some areas paying off what you've described could be less then $1000/mo and in others it could be well over $3000/mo.

I'm not saying how much I make on a public forum. But I can tell you this (And you'll have to bear with me that the dollars figures are estimates.) I started up an internet business and a grand total of $25 per month hosting, and about $20 for domains. I did this on an Overdraft (I had no job and no money coming in.) I stopped spending any money I didn't have to (Moved back with parents - shock horror (By the way, they don't have any money. For the last few months of living with them, I paid the majority of what I earned to them)). I turned a profit at the end of month 1. I started saving about $300 a month, then upped it. Paid it off. Moved back out when I had enough money for about 4 months rent. So on and so forth.

If I couldn't move back with parents I'd be behind, but not by much. My budget when I started was less than $100 a month. It only took me two months to make that back and go into the green businesswise fully.

About me wanting to believe it is hard work and tears; it isn't 'luck' that keeps me up until gone midnight or gets me up at 6am. It isn't luck that has me budgeting down to every dollar I spend, or the hours reading, learning to program, learning to price and sell, calling suppliers, so on and so forth.

It isn't luck that is keeping you from learning skills.

For myself;

Building websites? Replicable by anyone, doesn't require any 'uncontrollable factor to learn.'

Getting visitors to a website? Not luck either. Application of SEO, Social Media etc.

Getting people to buy products? Not luck, replicable. Just a case of phoning suppliers and sorting out shipments and doing business research.

Offering services to others? Not luck, replicable. Just do good-jobs then charge for the service. If there aren't people that want what you're selling, offer them something they do want.

So on and so forth. Those are my personal details. And a final honesty; your cooking is a more practical and necessary skill than I paid my student loans for. Your culinary skills aren't luck - they are cultivated. Your business skills can be the same. I was an arts student; that has nothing to do with my business whatsoever. I mean, I guess there are things that are out of my control that help me; my 'genetic will to power', the fact I'm pretty good at managing multiple things, whatever. You'll have natural skills that I don't though.

Just anyway, I'll reiterate the point I've been trying to make I guess; it isn't easy, but you can do it. The only reasons for not doing so are the lack of ability (Which you don't have, or can learn) and the lack of will. You can wait for luck for years, but unless you're actively seeking opportunities or learning skills or whatever, how is that luck supposed to manifest anyway?

I'll leave it there.

Post: #55

(03-28-2012 05:45 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Not to mention it's more fun. You should get the same feeling going to work in the morning as you get when you walk into a casino.

You mean the "what the fuck all those people are doing here?" kind of feeling?

Post: #56

(03-28-2012 06:33 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 05:45 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Not to mention it's more fun. You should get the same feeling going to work in the morning as you get when you walk into a casino.

You mean the "what the fuck all those people are doing here?" kind of feeling?

I mean the "Am I going to make or lose a couple grand today" kind of feeling.

Post: #57

(03-28-2012 06:36 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 06:33 PM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(03-28-2012 05:45 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  Not to mention it's more fun. You should get the same feeling going to work in the morning as you get when you walk into a casino.

You mean the "what the fuck all those people are doing here?" kind of feeling?

I mean the "Am I going to make or lose a couple grand today" kind of feeling.

He he.

We sure do all thrive under a variety of different motivations. Some guys are psychology suited to the business suit in a corporate environment. They do well with office politics, but to get their rest need a stable paycheck. Others prefer to focus on tasks given to them.

Employment is a temperamental issue.

Some people are creative. They can't rest unless they are doing some sort of art. Writing, painting, sculpting, or entrepreneuring.

Some of us are iconoclasts. We have no interest in fitting in, and don't play well with groups.

Some are methodical problem solvers and systemic thinkers. They find joy in making and putting together all the puzzle pieces.

Some people are motivated by safety, some by a grand long term vision, some by the thrills of the job at hand, some by a desire for status, some by a will to power over others.

Entrepreneurship as a class can encompass many different personalities and motivations. I see myself as a creative iconoclast.

I think it would be helpful for any entrepreneur to notice both his talents and motivations and fit those into his business plan.

Did you know that Trey Parker and Matt Stone are seat of their pants last minute men? They refuse to make their shows in advance, knowing that their best work is done under deadline.

I believe Bill Gates expressed a similar sentiment. Some people are at their peak in a sink or swim environment.

But others prefer a swim only environment.

Post: #58

(03-28-2012 04:49 PM)Chad Daring Wrote:  That right there tells me that you're more privileged then you'll probably ever admit and have no idea what poor feels like. While Im not poor now, I'm certainly in no position to lose break my lease, loose my $1k deposit and pay to move across the country on a whim. Thats foolish, not "intrepid"

What makes much more sense is to use the last few months of my lease to save money and make plans that way I can make a move out of the area and NOT show up at a city jobless, broke, with no home. This is exactly what I'm doing.

Relax on the excuses Chad. No one said to break your lease. Yeah, I was really privileged. I was so privileged I worked two jobs from 6am to 10:30pm Mon - Friday and only 8 hours on Sat and Sun.

Hey man, just because someone was able to do what you can't doesn't make them more privileged. It may simply be bigger balls.

I always loved the "You got lucky" from people who can't do what I did. It always reminds me of the saying, "The harder I work the luckier I get."

You can't get "lucky" if you don't play the game.

Post: #59

(03-29-2012 05:11 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  I always loved the "You got lucky" from people who can't do what I did. It always reminds me of the saying, "The harder I work the luckier I get."

You can't get "lucky" if you don't play the game.

I get offended if my girlfriend says that she will pray for my business. As if her stupid little vodoo is more effective than my intelligent hard work. So I tell her. "I don't need prayer. I make my business grow through my own efforts."

She thinks it's arrogant.

Post: #60

(03-28-2012 06:36 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  I mean the "Am I going to make or lose a couple grand today" kind of feeling.

Good clarification as I have never had this kind of feeling entering the casino.

Post: #61

(03-29-2012 05:11 PM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  Relax on the excuses Chad. No one said to break your lease. Yeah, I was really privileged. I was so privileged I worked two jobs from 6am to 10:30pm Mon - Friday and only 8 hours on Sat and Sun.

Hey man, just because someone was able to do what you can't doesn't make them more privileged. It may simply be bigger balls.

I always loved the "You got lucky" from people who can't do what I did. It always reminds me of the saying, "The harder I work the luckier I get."

You can't get "lucky" if you don't play the game.

There's always a random factor. Take this story for example. I'm on the cusp of a massive promotion. My boss is a fuck off and getting fired soon. I'm up to take his job and get a 33% increase on my salary.

Im up for that promotion because I worked my ass off. I worked 50+ hours a week and on many days single handedly kept my place of business (serving 500+ people daily) afloat.

He's getting fired because as luck would have it my regional manager just got stationed at my account. The RM being there put a microscope on my bosses bullshit. Had the RM not been stationed there he wouldn't be facing the ax, leaving an opening for me.

Now I'm gonna get that promotion because of my hardwork, but there was still, undoubtedly, luck involved.

Im done with you, simply because rather then be constructive, like Kitsune has been, you're just flexing your epeen and saying "I'm awesome, be awesome like me"




@Kitsune

It sounds like you did exactly what I'm working on now, you just had the luck (see what I did there ) that it took off quickly. I've been running my website (chefinjeans.com) for a few months now, I'm working on building site traffic and producing a product that people want, in my case a sharing of knowledge through reading material. I just released my first small e-book on Kindle, more as a testing of the waters and a learning experiment, then anything else. (shameless self promotion, buy my shit, it'll get you laid)

Now I admit pride does hinder me, as I really refuse to give up on the culinary field, as a whole. I've dumped almost 10 years of my life and over $50k into it and I simply cant walk away from that investment. Yes I could walk away and change fields and probably do better, but this is what I love and this is what I've dedicated my life too.



The reason I'm taking such a strong stand on this is not necessarily because of myself, but the majority of young men who haven't had their eyes opened in the ways that all of us at the RVF have.

The issues I've brought up are not even all mine, but more of a cumulation of issues that come from myself and others that I've known. The college and consumer scams are the largest fiends.

So many young people are being snake-oiled into putting themselves in debilitating debt. I know first hand how much that sucks and how hard it is to see any light when you work 50+ hours a week and still have less then $100 in your bank account. In that state you'll never see that there's another way.

You said you were unemployed when you started your business, but you have to realize that gives you a level of freedom. You can fully dedicate yourself. An unemployed young man with no where to go but up is a very dangerous thing.

To answer the very initial question of this thread "what happened to the go get em attitude?" Its been sedated with consumerism and shackled with debt. A lot of young Americans are being sold a life they dont know they dont need and that they cant afford. They're then told to "hang on and work hard, make it work!" This saps all their time, effort, and will.

What doesn't help is saying "just work harder, dedicate yourself more, stop being lazy" because thats what we've been told from the get go just by different people. The snake-oil peddlers were the firs to say that, so now its not the answer we need.

Kitsune, I thank you for taking the time to break down what you did and be cool and down to earth about the whole process. You're initial reply to this thread came off, to me, as the same holier-than-thou stuff thats been getting slung around so much, but you proved to not be that guy at all.

I think a lot of this goes to an even deeper message that young men need to shown, not told, that they have infinitely more potential then they know. I think its happening too. Guys like Roosh are the start, places like this forum are the second step.

[/rant]

also

Chef In Jeans
A culinary website for men

Post: #62

Bumping this thread as it's full of gold