Post: #26

(06-06-2014 04:55 AM)N°6 Wrote:  

(03-21-2012 01:50 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  I'm not directly trying to play devil's advocate here, but out of curiosity, are there any advantages to American women vs. European women?

I've found when I have visited the US that American women are friendly and polite to strangers which makes them easier to approach. Part of this, of course, is their attraction and curiosity to my accent.

British - especially English - women in contrast are hostile to a stranger wanting to talk to them. If you are ever in the UK, you will notice them walking along the street with their eyes firmly fixed to the ground so that they can avoid the potential of human interaction.

Men and women whom I know from other parts of Europe and the world (of which there are many) often find trouble to understand English women, their perceived 'stand-offishness' never mind befriend them.

As for American women, I recall reading an article about how British men perceive them. It said that British men liked how they are approachable and friendly but they saw that after familiarity, American women became quite difficult to stay with.

I have been surprised but a lot of women from most parts of the world hold British men in high regard; aside from the tourist destinations like Shagaluf. My theory on this, is that British women are so terrible, it means that men have increase their sexual market value and game a tremendous amount to get a woman of even higher than average value.

In Britain a lot of the men look better looking than their girlfriends, it is a weird state of affairs. Plus there is a lot of romanticism placed on British men, James Bond etc. A lot of British guys I know would kill it if they went abroad.

Post: #27

It is ironic than in free-market countries like the US and UK, the dating markets there are 'seller controlled'. Whereas in traditionally fiscally-conservative countries with protectionist economies such as France, women need to compete with each other and improve themselves in order to attract the best man possible. British and American women, instead of improving themselves, collude with each other to inflate their values and to deflate men's values.

I see this contrast time and time again as I move between the UK and France (as well as casting my memory back to my visits to the US).

When I was younger in the UK, when I started to date, it would seem that women would often try and put me down. My first girlfriend was a safe 6 and she was particular bad at this. As women seemed to be in agreement, I began to believe my apparent inadequacies. Then I started travelling and after being shocked at the standard of women who were attracted to me, I gradually accepted the confidence of being an 8. An older, rich and very elegant French woman with connections in the publishing market in Paris said that my classic British looks would be of interest to French magazines. I honestly thought I was a 4 or 5 who'd be wise to target plain and 'curvy' women (5s or 6s). Yet in France, I got used to being with very attractive women who actually thought highly of me and couldn't understand why I didn't have many girlfriends in the UK.

I recommend that young British and American men to re-read the story of the Ugly Duckling.

My brother who had the same background but didn't travel or learn game and who was a clear 8, married a 5. My mother is so saddened to see pictures of him with a very plain and chubby wife who seems to boss him, that she wonders if something traumatic happened to him to not have any confidence in himself.

Post: #28

(06-06-2014 06:20 AM)N°6 Wrote:  It is ironic than in free-market countries like the US and UK, the dating markets there are 'seller controlled'. Whereas in traditionally fiscally-conservative countries with protectionist economies such as France, women need to compete with each other and improve themselves in order to attract the best man possible. British and American women, instead of improving themselves, collude with each other to inflate their values and to deflate men's values.

I see this contrast time and time again as I move between the UK and France (as well as casting my memory back to my visits to the US).

When I was younger in the UK, when I started to date, it would see that women would often try and put me down. My first girlfriend was a safe 6 and she was particular bad at this. As women seemed to be in agreement, I began to believe my apparent inadequacies. Then I started travelling and after being shocked at the standard of women who were attracted to me, I gradually accepted the confidence of being an 8. An older, rich and very elegant French woman with connections in the publishing market in Paris said that my classic British looks would be of interest to French magazines. I honestly thought I was a 4 or 5 who'd be wise to target plain and 'curvy' women (5s or 6s). Yet in France, I got used to being with very attractive women who actually thought highly of me and couldn't understand why I didn't have many girlfriends in the UK.

I recommend that young British and American men to re-read the story of the Ugly Duckling.

My brother who had the same background but didn't travel or learn game and who was a clear 8, married a 5. My mother is so saddened to see pictures of him with a very plain and chubby wife who seems to boss him, that she wonders if something traumatic happened to him to not have any confidence in himself.

I will PM you, this is pure gold and relates a lot to my personal experiences. It is fascinating how market place economics actually explain relationship dynamics between people. Anecdotally speaking when I return back to the U.K, I find the hook up culture very exhausting and simply not worth the effort. Where as in foreign countries, you don't have to jump through so many hoops; yet achieve better results with more higher quality women.

In most relationships I see, the British women have the power. This goes through all cross sections of classes and backgrounds. Which partly explains why a lot of British women flock towards foreign men, from male dominated cultures. Although promiscuity is very high, a large chunk of the male population simply don't have access to it, which is very demoralising for them and the nation in the long run.

Post: #29

One thing I've noticed is that many Western and Southern European women will happily declare, "I am beautiful," but there is not an ounce of arrogance in their statement (arrogance and saying that you are beautiful are not mutually exclusive) Whereas with American/Australian/British women, they will relentlessly point out their imperfections and seek validation from males to disagree with them and tell them they're beautiful. I'd much rather the first approach than the second.

Post: #30

(06-06-2014 05:50 AM)Constitution45 Wrote:  I have been surprised but a lot of women from most parts of the world hold British men in high regard; aside from the tourist destinations like Shagaluf. My theory on this, is that British women are so terrible, it means that men have increase their sexual market value and game a tremendous amount to get a woman of even higher than average value.

In Britain a lot of the men look better looking than their girlfriends, it is a weird state of affairs. Plus there is a lot of romanticism placed on British men, James Bond etc. A lot of British guys I know would kill it if they went abroad.

I’d say that more than half of the bangs I’ve had in the US are purely because I’m from UK and women like my accent. I remember now woman saying that I have a lot of class - I'm actually from a pretty shitty working background in UK. I'm not posh at all.

(06-06-2014 04:55 AM)N°6 Wrote:  

(03-21-2012 01:50 AM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  I'm not directly trying to play devil's advocate here, but out of curiosity, are there any advantages to American women vs. European women?

I've found when I have visited the US that American women are friendly and polite to strangers which makes them easier to approach. Part of this, of course, is their attraction and curiosity to my accent.

British - especially English - women in contrast are hostile to a stranger wanting to talk to them. If you are ever in the UK, you will notice them walking along the street with their eyes firmly fixed to the ground so that they can avoid the potential of human interaction. Men and women whom I know from other parts of Europe and the world (of which there are many) often find trouble to understand English women, their perceived 'stand-offishness' never mind befriend them.

As for American women, I recall reading an article about how British men perceive them. It said that British men liked how they are approachable and friendly but they saw that after familiarity, American women became quite difficult to stay with.

British people are different depending on whereabouts in UK you meet them. In London they can be pretty hard to open in the street, whereas in northern England people talk to random strangers all the time. People are a lot more open in bars all over UK – there’s a saying that alcohol is a “social lubricant” in UK.

I think American women are a lot more masculine. In my experience a lot of American women love stuff like watching sports and cars, whereas a lot of British women have no interest in both. They’re into more girly things. American women are a lot more crude language wise too – A British woman will say “X is sleeping with Y”; An American will say “X is fucking Y”.

Nearly Every Britisih guy I know wants Latin or Eastern European women – I’ve never heard anybody say they want an American woman.

If I ever did get married, it would almost definately not be with an American or British woman.

Post: #31

The shitty thing is that British women are actually more pleasant and less annoying to be around than American women. Though American women are better looking, on average.

Post: #32

(06-06-2014 02:53 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  The shitty thing is that British women are actually more pleasant and less annoying to be around than American women. Though American women are better looking, on average.

Are you serious?

If an interaction doesn't go swimmingly with a British girl you're left looking like a chump pretty quickly and all you are left with is either walking away or taking the piss out of her or yourself to try and get it back.

It leaves a bitter taste in my mouth having to put up with the attitudes of plain janes in this country when I want to get out and about to meet different women. I have two foreign flags and enjoyed them immensely so to be stuck with Brit girls may be impacting on my game.

Post: #33

I've had the same experience as speakeasy. It may be because British girls treat American guys differently than British guys.

Post: #34

(06-06-2014 02:53 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  The shitty thing is that British women are actually more pleasant and less annoying to be around than American women. Though American women are better looking, on average.

It's an extremely low bar though. It's like saying one type of pig has a bit better demeanor than the other type which is naturally surly and aggressive. At the end of the day they are still both pigs.

Post: #35

(06-07-2014 05:19 AM)KorbenDallas Wrote:  I've had the same experience as speakeasy. It may be because British girls treat American guys differently than British guys.

Being from elsewhere is a definite help with Englishwomen although in London, being from elsewhere means very little any more because London is home to a British minority now. Add the tourist population which is living in London at any given time, then you can see that it is a global village with no background being particularly exotic or special any more.

When I am on my travels, I often ask myself how much of my relative success in foreign dating markets is due to a favourable market to men, women who actually like men or due to my overseas status.

Post: #36

Just as a reminder to non-American guys. Don't forget how huge the US is and how many cultures there are in different regions.

Women in the west and east coast, major metro cities, are terrible of course.

Women in the country areas (midwest, some parts of south) are better. Still attention whores, but to a lesser degree.

I recently got to know a few girls from Minnesota, who were really quite decent. Sweet, smart. A bit of sluttiness of course, you can't escape that completely, but they are clearly open to being trained by a strong man.

I'd wife them if I was young and looking for that.

Post: #37

(06-06-2014 06:20 AM)N°6 Wrote:  My brother who had the same background but didn't travel or learn game and who was a clear 8, married a 5. My mother is so saddened to see pictures of him with a very plain and chubby wife who seems to boss him, that she wonders if something traumatic happened to him to not have any confidence in himself.

As depressing as stories like this are, they're pretty much the reason the manosphere exists. How many of us grew up seeing a male somewhere in our families getting bossed around by an ugly, bitchy wife? How many of these guys stay in these situations and basically throw their lives away because they're trapped by cruel divorce and child support laws? At least now there are warnings all over the internet, and those of us who are perceptive enough can avoid ending up in these kinds of situations.

These kinds of miserable marriages do seem to be pretty unique to the English speaking countries, and there's absolutely no mainstream acknowledgement that this is even an issue, let alone doing anything politically to make it easier for men to walk away. The general consensus seems to be that guys who are trapped in horrible marriages should just "man up" and waste their lives in a bad situation. So society expects us to be martyrs rather than have enjoyable lives.

Post: #38

I have two question about Anglo-women (I have only been with two Anglo girls), I have two observations to be comfirmed or dismissed. Of course they are stated more generalising than reality

1) Anglo-women rely on alcohol for sex: Girls from the Anglosphere see sex as something that arises from drunkenness. Whereas my experience with German, French and Latin girls this is much less so.

2) Sex is better with German, French and Latin girls, more passioned, whereas Anglo girls are more inhibited.


True to some extent?

Post: #39

(02-02-2015 08:20 AM)mastauser Wrote:  1) Anglo-women rely on alcohol for sex: Girls from the Anglosphere see sex as something that arises from drunkenness. Whereas my experience with German, French and Latin girls this is much less so.

Superb observation. That right there is da muthafuckin truth.

Post: #40

(03-19-2012 01:04 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  They're quieter

They're still expressive though? That's kinda where I draw the line on being quiet and submissive.

Post: #41

(06-07-2014 12:19 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  Just as a reminder to non-American guys. Don't forget how huge the US is and how many cultures there are in different regions.

Women in the west and east coast, major metro cities, are terrible of course.

Women in the country areas (midwest, some parts of south) are better. Still attention whores, but to a lesser degree.

I recently got to know a few girls from Minnesota, who were really quite decent. Sweet, smart. A bit of sluttiness of course, you can't escape that completely, but they are clearly open to being trained by a strong man.

I'd wife them if I was young and looking for that.

You're hiding the dirty fact that many of these women in the Midwest and South get fat real fast once married and have kids and it doesn't go away. Also many of the hotter chicks from these areas move away during or after college leaving a pussy vacuum behind.

There are gems, but also many many plain chicks. Chicago and Minneapolis are nice, but their talent isn't even close to SoCal, South FL, Phoenix area, TX, Manhattan.

Post: #42

(02-02-2015 08:20 AM)mastauser Wrote:  I have two question about Anglo-women (I have only been with two Anglo girls), I have two observations to be comfirmed or dismissed. Of course they are stated more generalising than reality

1) Anglo-women rely on alcohol for sex: Girls from the Anglosphere see sex as something that arises from drunkenness. Whereas my experience with German, French and Latin girls this is much less so.

2) Sex is better with German, French and Latin girls, more passioned, whereas Anglo girls are more inhibited.


True to some extent?

I think this is true and it applies to conversations too (both online and RL).

Warming up a conversation with an English woman is a struggle without alcohol. Even on tinder, when conversations die down, it is only the foreign women who do they share to keep them going. I recall from my 70 matches that the 10 remaining live conversations were with women from overseas. All the English women flopped.

Post: #43

I'm speaking generally here but there are massive differences in dating culture from my experience:

Western European women (excluding the UK) are able to better separate sex from feelings. After you hook up with an American girl, the automatic next step (assumed by both guys and girls) is to progress towards a relationship. It's like if you hop on a snowboard and head downhill - you're headed on a very linear path unless something obstructs the way. Even hookup-focused American guys still have this narrative where a successful LTR is the ultimate goal or measure of progress with a girl you like, and it's just a matter of how far you'll let a hookup drift towards it.

In Germany, Holland, and Belgium it's more like jogging on a flat path. You can see immediately what's in front of you and can be more creative in taking whatever path you want. The girls tend to be more upfront when separating casual sex from LTR-sex, and the dating cycle (attraction building, venues, etc.) is generally more reflective of this. Neither girls nor guys need to spend enormous amounts of time, effort, and money if they're only looking for a quick bang. This puts American guys in a bad standing with many European girls, who think they have to fabricate lies and fake careers and jump through a million hoops just to have sex with a girl when it's clearly not the case.

We're just used to assuming that in order to hookup, we need to give the impression that we're relationship material (job, finances, car, career) even if it's not on the table. It always happens where an American girl will ask me by the third or fourth date.. "So, are we like, together now?" No bitch, just chill. EU girls on the other hand will very rarely ask this question and relationship status is taken pretty much at face value.

Post: #44

^ Interesting it sounds much more relaxed in Western Europe.

America teaches us to be both great salesmen and conmen at the same time.

When I am with girls on a date here I feel like I am a kickoff returner in football avoiding and juking all the tacklers by avoiding unwanted questions and putting myself in the best light possible constantly.

My friend plays up so hard that he is a pro surfer and pro skater with chicks to point I am even a bit cringed, but it works American chicks eat up status ploys and are just waiting to dismiss you if you let out any lower value attributes. I just keep my mouth shut and nod on dates. It works.

Post: #45

(02-03-2015 02:59 AM)Travesty444 Wrote:  ^ Interesting it sounds much more relaxed in Western Europe.

America teaches us to be both great salesmen and conmen at the same time.

When I am with girls on a date here I feel like I am a kickoff returner in football avoiding and juking all the tacklers by avoiding unwanted questions and putting myself in the best light possible constantly.

My friend plays up so hard that he is a pro surfer and pro skater with chicks to point I am even a bit cringed, but it works American chicks eat up status ploys and are just waiting to dismiss you if you let out any lower value attributes. I just keep my mouth shut and nod on dates. It works.

Right on Travesty444. To game younger American women you have to be completely full of shit. When I go out with an American women especially in her 20s, I feel like I have to be an entertainer and pass like 20 different shit tests. When I get real, even though my real is confident and outcome independent, it usually blows it for me. The exception is with 30+ American women, who are often sick of guys bsing them.

For all those players who think American woman are getting worse, I don't think so. I am over 40 now and I remember the exact same thing about American women when I was a teenager and in my 20s. I also remember what a paradise Europe felt like. I first went to Europe when I was 15. I was amazed by the women. They were hotter than Americans and gave very clear signals right from the start if they were interested. You don't have to be a performing monkey for a European women. You can be yourself, as long as that self is confident.

Post: #46

delete

Post: #47

(06-06-2014 01:58 PM)WalterBlack Wrote:  I think American women are a lot more masculine. In my experience a lot of American women love stuff like watching sports and cars, whereas a lot of British women have no interest in both.

This is very true. A British girl having interest in watching sports, in the same way a lot of American girls do, is still seen as pretty odd - and it would be a source of embarrassment if it was your girlfriend. Things like the World Cup are exempt from that rule I reckon though.

American women, from reading those links posted earlier - and from what people say on here - are just so much more combative. I think one quote in those articles said it best: "American women want to be equal so much it can be overpowering". And that was written 13 years ago...

In terms of the Northern Europeans, German/Dutch/Scandi women are masculine in ways British women aren't, and vice versa. You wouldn't get many British women being pragmatic and logical enough to put up a tent in a quick fashion on a camping holiday, but you wouldn't get many German/Dutch/Scandi women having a fist fight on a Friday night...so swings and roundabouts!

Post: #48

Western European women (Spain, France, England, etc) are noticeably more fashionable and fit than American women. Many do have feminist attitudes, but are still not nearly as toxic and hypocritical as American women. Honestly, if it wasn't for the widespread secularism in Europe, I would be making every effort to relocate and find a European wife.

Post: #49

In my experience American women are so grumpy compared to the European ones and I'm not just talking about when I'm interacting with them but also for when I observe them from a distance.
Also American women have the shittiest sense of style I've seen anywhere.

Post: #50

(02-02-2015 08:46 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

(06-07-2014 12:19 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  Just as a reminder to non-American guys. Don't forget how huge the US is and how many cultures there are in different regions.

Women in the west and east coast, major metro cities, are terrible of course.

Women in the country areas (midwest, some parts of south) are better. Still attention whores, but to a lesser degree.

I recently got to know a few girls from Minnesota, who were really quite decent. Sweet, smart. A bit of sluttiness of course, you can't escape that completely, but they are clearly open to being trained by a strong man.

I'd wife them if I was young and looking for that.

You're hiding the dirty fact that many of these women in the Midwest and South get fat real fast once married and have kids and it doesn't go away. Also many of the hotter chicks from these areas move away during or after college leaving a pussy vacuum behind.

There are gems, but also many many plain chicks. Chicago and Minneapolis are nice, but their talent isn't even close to SoCal, South FL, Phoenix area, TX, Manhattan.

A lot of dudes that romanticize heartland girls visualize this:



When this is closer to reality: