Post: #551

In a place that is hard to figure out, guys usually fall back to simplistic solutions like height, beard or something related to looks. Ive been here for two months now and those things are not even in the top 10 in terms of strategy. Complicated places have complicated solutions.

Post: #552

Generally in Ukraine the top areas to approach are the university area,the central square,parks and bus stations.Malls,grocery stores and bazaar are not good areas to approach because in them girls have money they are afraid and they mostly look at products they do not have interest in approaches.
I think rooshv was undermined for the following reasons:
1.Not Russian speaking so girls did not understand what he told them
2.Not being obviously overdressed.
3.Not giving signs of spending.
However in my opinion what mostly weighted was lack of Russian knowledge because otherwise he would get enough feedback from the girls to change his approach.

Post: #553

(04-25-2012 09:37 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  I mean if the girl asked you what your Patronymic was for example, or why you don't speak any Ukrainian/Russian despite having Ukrainian parents etc. you'd be on the back foot and probably come across as in-congruent in your reply.

Then you answer that your parents were American/British/whoever staying there on a diplomatic/military/whatever mission while you were born. This is why they didn't speak the language, and neither do you.

Post: #554

(04-25-2012 03:16 PM)Roosh Wrote:  -Tons of girls in the parks, but they're never alone. Many are sitting on benches.

I'd say go for those. Girls are sitting in the parks on benches because they have nothing else to do, and have no money to sit somewhere else (indeed most would rather sit in a cafe). Ignore those who are involved in the deep conversation, but I'd guess most would just stare at you. I'd ask them to walk you to the nearest good cafe. If they give good vibe, invite them and have a tea or coffee, and get the number. I usually don't bother with isolation, and prefer to get the numbers from all of them instead (including those I have no intention to call - otherwise they'd feel you're openly disrespecting their friend, which is a no-no). Of course a girl you intend to call would typically knows that, but by following this route you show her you're respecting the culture and customs.

Quote:-Lots of girls waiting outside metro stations for someone, but sucks to approach and then have the friend (or boyfriend) roll up in 2 minutes.

Unlike the parks nobody hangs out outside a metro station just for nothing. Not only they're always waiting for someone, but typically they also have some specific plans, and the meeting is supposed to happen very soon (nobody would plan to wait 30 minutes on a metro station). Sure you can disrupt those if your plans are more fun, but at least in a park you do not have to compete with the attractiveness of their current plans.

Quote:Deb and Kamaki has obviously seen much success here, but I think it's painting a rosy picture for how challenging it really is for most guys.

Well, to be honest here, Greek's success comes from a different angle, and pretty much everyone could have this kind of success there if they're willing to pay. And you know how I feel about Deb's supposed success - nobody I've ever seen or known had any success getting laid via Google Translate.

Quote:I'm not giving up but with such a low ROI my heart isn't into it.

That's exactly how I feel in the US. Sure there is much less work to do, but the quality is so appalling that it feels insulting that you actually have to do any work at all!

Post: #555

(04-25-2012 08:13 PM)LifeBeginsAt40 Wrote:  I am 6'5" and in St Petersburg I was getting some serious IOI's, albeit 8 years ago. Still the IOI's where passer by's on the street so they had no knowledge I was a foreigner. They could have been eye fucking a local for all they knew.

IOI from a stranger chick in Ukraine/Russia means very little, if anything at all. She could be eye-fucking you, but when you approach her you'd find out she's married, has a BF or not even interested in you. Your looks are probably the least important criteria there.

Post: #556

I have written that till 2009 I did not buy any presents etc.However I needed 3 days at least to stay to bang the first girl and this bothered me since I stayed only one week maximum usually.When I started coming for weekends only I was prone to buying a present if asked.
In western Ukraine I never bought presents because I was never asked to(except one case).In Donbas I was asked for present from every girl(100%).In Kiev it was more 50-50 with 50% of girls being for free(only dating expenses spent).So it is a cultural issue.You are expected to give some financial help in Donbass and the same is true for eastern Belarus.If you want to bang for free(and spend more time) go to west Ukraine.

Post: #557

don't give up just yet, this is the best time of the year, the summer cafes are opening up all over my city, great places to meet girls, just find a local and stick to it, develop some kind of social circle, I have lived in east Ukraine for 6 years, and I'm still learning with these girls, I dont want to sound cliche, but what works best for me is to first DHV, appear interesting, intriguing, important, a man of the world, when I meet girls at my locals, I have props; again cliche, but this works for me, in my small mans purse, (very common here) I carry a good quality digital, my kindle, and photos, not just any photos, but pics that show me in a very positive light, pics of me night skiing in Utah, hey I am an exciting guy, pics with me and those babes from Viagra, hey I up on Ukraine music, pic of me drinking shots with top city officials, hey I know people in high places, a pic of me giving a power point presentation at my university, hey I am smart guy, I dont mind at all to spend a little money on these girls, last week I took a girl to the Hungre Games, after which we went bowling, in the same complex, we had a great time, then to my totally western Euro standard apartment, i ve got class, but I enjoy taking dates out to dinner and billiards or bowling or whatever, my main issue is that I have fun, if i dont have sex, which happens, big deal, the main point is i had a great time.

Post: #558

Typical examples of good targets in Ukraine:
1.Girls sitting on benches drinking and laughing(for sure they would prefer to stay inwards in cafe or club)
2.Girls walking slowly around the cental square drinking and giggling.Actually when they do that they are hit constantly by the local guys it is expected.So they choose.Also girls in benches get hit.
3.Girls waiting for the bus outside the university area our the cental square or outside the mall.Also good targets since they are usually alone and standing.However you have just 1-2 minutes to make your presentation before the marshutka arrives.So you have to be tense.
4.Girls in trains.They usually are the poorest ones who cannot afford even the bus ticket.They get bored quite easily in the slow and dirty Ukrainian trains.Some good fuckings take place inside or after arrival.
If you fail in benches, cental square, university area and discos try the train and you will not be disappointed.

Post: #559

(04-26-2012 08:05 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  

(04-25-2012 09:37 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  I mean if the girl asked you what your Patronymic was for example, or why you don't speak any Ukrainian/Russian despite having Ukrainian parents etc. you'd be on the back foot and probably come across as in-congruent in your reply.

Then you answer that your parents were American/British/whoever staying there on a diplomatic/military/whatever mission while you were born. This is why they didn't speak the language, and neither do you.

Not wanting to pull your idea apart as it is decent but it would be farcical to try telling an intelligent girl my British parents lived in an industrial shit hole like Zhytomyr in 1974. If the girl did not shit test you on it immediately her more savvy male friends would. And even if they went for it there is nothing to be gained from it since what made the origional idea a good one was that it got you over the anti foreigner hurdle and established rapport through mutual cultural backgrounds. What you just said though is basically just telling her you were born there during a holiday,so what?

As I said,I think your idea is good and I'll try it out this summer but only because I speak semi decent Russian and have been travelling to the FSU since 93 and hence have a cultural understanding of sorts. For people fresh off the plane it's better to use the 'Here to start a business' line.

Post: #560

As Greek I am immediately accepted for being orthodox white.We are considered friends by and large.

Post: #561

(04-26-2012 08:38 AM)oldnemesis Wrote:  IOI from a stranger chick in Ukraine/Russia means very little, if anything at all. She could be eye-fucking you, but when you approach her you'd find out she's married, has a BF or not even interested in you. Your looks are probably the least important criteria there.

Agreed.

Lots of times they are looking because you purely because are a foreigner,someone new in town and they have little interest in you beyond an object of interest. In provincial Belarus I got stared at constantly by everyone,young,old,married,male,female,didn't mean any of them were interested in sleeping with me or even meeting me just like I look at an accident if I drive by one but I don't want to be involved in one.

In regards to looks I would say that looks are much less important in the FSU then in the West. You see far more hot women walking about with an ugly man on their arms over there then here ( that's obviously in part because the women are simply far better looking over there ) and I know from speaking to my female Russian friends and ex's that men's looks comes up in conversation far less then with my Bristish ones. I think men are allowed to be men by the women over there,i.e you can be bald,have a paunch,be a bit older and as long as you have your shit together in other areas then it won't hold you back. I'm late 30's and still bang plenty of early to mid 20's girls there which is harder and harder to do in my own country.

Post: #562

So today I went to one of the bigger universities. I don't know why I haven't tried it before. It was an old Soviet building that was more like a maze. I started on a top floor and just snaked my way down, checking out the scene. The ratio was good, 2 girls for every guy, though of course the logistics of girls rushing to class or with friends wasn't so great. Still, I managed about 4 approaches in the hour, which was better than walking aimlessly on the street.

One girl I interrupted as she practiced runway model walking in a quiet part of the building. She was very pretty but english was weak and she seemed shy. There were a lot of Arab and African students. I'm sure they are enjoying their access to these young Ukrainian girls.

As for eye contact, if I do a day approach after getting eye contact, she'd at least stop. Chance of blow out is low. If I do the approach without it, chance of blow out is dramatically higher. Lots of girls will not give eye contact.

Now that I have a smart phone, I tried to play with Google Translate while with girls. I find this to be extremely hard. Typing in a sentence while the girl waits is very awkward. In one case I tested it on a girl who spoke English. I typed in a couple sentences and then used the Google robot to speak it. She didn't understand. Yesterday I was on a CS meeting (not really a date) with a girl who barely spoke English. I used it once to translate the word "motivation" and didn't bother with using it again. It's easier to find another word to use then to bust out the cell phone. It feels like you're breaking the conversation.

I thought I would be using the Google Translate app for real life conversation, but I just use it for text messaging. I urge you to simulate a date with Google Translate just to see what I mean. Pretend there is a girl waiting for you to type it in. It's too slow. You could use the speak function on your smartphone but then it feels like you're having a conversation with your phone. So yeah I'm not a Google Translate convert, though I was optimistic about its uses. For text messaging in Russian it's great.

Quote:That's exactly how I feel in the US. Sure there is much less work to do, but the quality is so appalling that it feels insulting that you actually have to do any work at all!

Post: #563

Well well well, Roosh is starting Google Translate game

Just be cool when you are writing the message, she will wait for you.

I go for a stroll in the Universities here asking for the English faculty along the way. Had result the first time I tried this here, bumped into some giggly girls, ended up seeing one of them for a while, she was a virgin till she met me, her first hand job was the best I have ever received.

Bumped into her the other week while I was collecting drinkning water, she has really blossomed into a sexyyoung lady, will contact her today I think

Post: #564

I try all suggestions.

It's a good tool especially when you want to communicate something important that you can't find alternate meanings for, but I don't think it can come close to knowing Russian for real. It's not a magic substitute.

Post: #565

The next few days are going to be perfect day game weather in IS, I might hit the university tomorrow.

Post: #566

Deb could not resist the sweet siren call of the forum.

Post: #567

Roosh, are you ever gonna spend some time in Asia. It'd be the perfect spot if you don't wanna learn game. Fuck like a pornstar, then fly back to Europe. Might put things in a different perspective too.

Post: #568

Doesn't google translate do speech recognition?
It worked so so for me when speaking slowly in non noisy environments. And its more entertaining than her watching you type away.

Post: #569

(04-26-2012 12:34 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Deb could not resist the sweet siren call of the forum.

Neither could I..

I think I'm figuring out my own industrial shithole.
I've found park benches to be great for day game. (100% success rate so far: 1 instadate, 1 phone number, and 1 girl that was totally willing but I froze up)
They are basically waiting to get picked up.

I'm also hitting the university daily now.
I've gotten some advice on a russian pickup forum: direct eye contact, *slight* smile, simple questions (say Privyet, ask directions).

Thats about the extent of advice offered on the Russian forums. Some strange topics on there...
"How do I convince a girl to watch me masturabate?"

Post: #570

(04-26-2012 09:15 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  Not wanting to pull your idea apart as it is decent but it would be farcical to try telling an intelligent girl my British parents lived in an industrial shit hole like Zhytomyr in 1974.

I'm actually happy when my ideas are pulled apart, as it is better to come up with a good answer before the question is asked when it is important to have a good answer

Zhytomir maybe (although people do get born in some weird places), but Kiev or even Lviv? It is still the motherland. You may not even know the exact city you were actually born in, only the city which issued your birth certificate (which may be very different).

Quote:If the girl did not shit test you on it immediately her more savvy male friends would.

Why? If you say you're there for business, the message behind it is that you may be important and rich, and therefore have a higher status than her. This is why she must shit test on it. But this answer doesn't imply any status, at least directly, and there is no obvious need to shit test. Of course there are some bitchy types which demand to see your passport when you tell them your name, but the majority is not like that.

Quote:And even if they went for it there is nothing to be gained from it since what made the origional idea a good one was that it got you over the anti foreigner hurdle and established rapport through mutual cultural backgrounds. What you just said though is basically just telling her you were born there during a holiday,so what?

Obviously this is not the kind of answer which would get you laid. But I doubt there is this kind of answer to this question. What is important is to avoid the common negative impressions and patterns with the typical "I'm here on vacation" or "For business", and move on.

Post: #571

I would try this Google translate thing with some standard sentences that you have already at hand, EVEN if it doesn't totally fit the conversation. eventually you could ADD some short sentence to it.

The effect will probably half amusing, because you're not answering what she asks...it doesn't really matter. more important, it helps to break the ice.

Don't stick 10 minutes to your phone, of course that would be awkward. BUt take your time, she'll understand and be curious.

A full conversation doing this is obviously impossible. Use it once in a while, when you know you have a pre-written sentence that fits the dialogue.

The voice-robot sounds like a funny and quick thing to explore carefully.

base line: keep it simple.

Post: #572

(04-21-2012 07:55 PM)Subotai Wrote:  I'm only tough when I'm challenged, I don't go around pushing other people around. But I know it works over there, I've seen it too often.

There seems to be a lot of experienced men here, so I'm curious whether in your perception a lone unarmed foreigner with no local connections could pull that style off? Even if the local men are passive-aggressive, they can alert the militia who are likely less timid.


My primary concern in EE, especially in Russia, is that a local man seeing a foreigner trying to pick up their women could just alert the militia and they will shake down the foreigner. They can do it for profit or just out of hatred for the foreigner who comes to entice women with his greater wealth in front of their eyes. So they use their only advantage, official authority, against the foreigner and may even throw him in a prison. After all, what is stopping them? (Perhaps Americans get better treatment because Russians dare not to anger them).

What are your perceptions: how likely this is?

Post: #573

(04-26-2012 04:52 PM)Reinhard Wrote:  

(04-21-2012 07:55 PM)Subotai Wrote:  I'm only tough when I'm challenged, I don't go around pushing other people around. But I know it works over there, I've seen it too often.

There seems to be a lot of experienced men here, so I'm curious whether in your perception a lone unarmed foreigner with no local connections could pull that style off? Even if the local men are passive-aggressive, they can alert the militia who are likely less timid.


My primary concern in EE, especially in Russia, is that a local man seeing a foreigner trying to pick up their women could just alert the militia and they will shake down the foreigner. They can do it for profit or just out of hatred for the foreigner who comes to entice women with his greater wealth in front of their eyes. So they use their only advantage, official authority, against the foreigner and may even throw him in a prison. After all, what is stopping them? (Perhaps Americans get better treatment because Russians dare not to anger them).

What are your perceptions: how likely this is?

There's a lot of talk on here about how dangerous it is and I feel most of that is overblown. It certainly can be dangerous, but if you're smart and try to avoid trouble, it can be avoided in most cases. Even for black guys who are far more likely to get targeted, I think they can go there and not be bothered too much.

The police shake down people a lot less than they used to. In Russia it still happens rather frequently in Moscow or St. Petersburg , but it's become quite uncommon in Ukraine. I wouldn't worry about it. They're not going to put you in prison. At worst, they might sit you down in the office or police car for a couple of hours until you give them some money.

I would more worry about pissing off mafia types or other thugs. The police are predictable. Give them their $20 to $50 and they'll go away. Thugs can't be bribed. If you insult them personally, it's a problem. They need to be seen maintaining their fear and dominance, so those are the types I would stay away from. Luckily, they are easily spotted by their clothing and general swagger.

As a foreigner, I would not try the Mafia style. Absolutely not. I just put it out there so the guys can get a baseline of what I feel the women are attracted to. The women always talk about "real men" and to them a real man is decisive, knows what he wants, and does what is necessary to get what he wants. Despite their low salaries, a lot of foreign military personnel outclassed businessmen and state department types because they had the right demeanor to be blunt with the women. The other guys were too cultured for their own good.

I wouldn't be overly pushy over there, but you can be decently forward with the women and no one thinks twice about it since it's how a lot of the men are anyways. The local guys are so used to sex tourists and foreigners hitting on their women, it doesn't bother them as much as you think it would. A lot of them call their own women sluts and prostitutes, so it's not like you're destroying the honor of the women. Just don't try this in Saudi Arabia.

One other thing I would add is to be alert and situationally aware. You should be doing this everywhere, but more so in FSU. As a foreigner, you might attract the attention of petty crooks and thieves. I had friends who had roofies put in their drinks and had their cell phones and wallets stolen when they passed out and things like that.

But overall, if you're smart and aware and try to avoid trouble rather than seek it, I'd say it's not dangerous at all.

Post: #574

(04-26-2012 11:08 AM)Deb Auchery Wrote:  Well well well, Roosh is starting Google Translate game

Just be cool when you are writing the message, she will wait for you.

I go for a stroll in the Universities here asking for the English faculty along the way. Had result the first time I tried this here, bumped into some giggly girls, ended up seeing one of them for a while, she was a virgin till she met me, her first hand job was the best I have ever received.

Bumped into her the other week while I was collecting drinkning water, she has really blossomed into a sexyyoung lady, will contact her today I think

For some reason i DO NOT BELIEVE in Deb's statements and do side with Roosh. How can one catch a hot girl when she waits for every word/message to be translated on a smartphone and there is an unnatural break in the conversation! Perhaps it is enough to arrange a meetup for a first date but eventually stimulating intellectual conversation has to happen and for that one needs to know the Russian language well. Afterall, there are only so many ways to ask "kak dela" or "sto budem delat" before the girl get's bored.
My 2 cents

Post: #575

BCZ: I have no idea the caliber of women Deb date but if you're going for 6s and below, language becomes much less important. You need very few phrases with 4s and 5s if you meet them in the club.