Post: #201

I think it's no surprise that some of the most respected contributors are divided on this issue. There have been some very good points made on both sides.

I think the best argument for getting rid of the rep system is the one Roosh made: it causes people to turn it into a silly competition over little green numbers and creates unneeded tension, ultimately degrading the quality of the discussion. In my view there is absolutely no denying that this is happening--if you have any doubt of it, just look around. What's funny about this is that it's a fairly recent development: over the last few months the number of rep points that have been handed out has exploded, and we've seen a simultaneous increase in the amount of rep point-related bad behavior on the forum (trading rep points for information, disparaging other members based on how many points they have, complaining about not getting repped for posting a data sheet, etc etc). Why is this happening? I'm not sure, maybe it has something to do with the increase in the number of new members, or maybe it's some kind of vicious cycle where rep point inflation leads to people resorting to these measures in order to "keep up." Whatever the cause, it's interesting that the pathological aspects of the rep system have emerged fairly recently, which tells me that maybe there's a way to modify the system to eliminate or reduce them.

What's the best argument for keeping rep points? I think it's that it allows you to quickly identify who the most trustworthy contributors are. As others have pointed out, it's obviously not a perfect indicator as there are definitely people who have made great contributions but don't have a lot of points (and vice versa--didn't Dash have a pretty big rep number?). People who have been around for a while know who the best posters are anyway, but for newbies I imagine it's very useful to be able to look at a quick, albeit imperfect indicator of whose contributions have been most valuable. Another useful aspect of the rep points was that you could see the posts that people got repped for. That was a good way to scan for good threads that you may have missed.

One argument that I am not impressed by is the one that says we should have rep points because it's a reward for adding value to the forum. Come on guys, it's a little number on the screen, are you really telling me you care enough about that shit to not make posts that you would otherwise make? Even if you think you need that validation over and above the recognition you get in the form of direct feedback from other members when you write good posts, it's not Roosh's job to give it to you. I don't think we should have to give out gold stars like we're in Kindergarten in order to foster an environment where people are generous about adding value. Maybe it's a sad fact about human nature that people are going to seek validation, but frankly I find that attitude childish.

So in summary we have good arguments on both sides of this issue. What should we do about it? Ideally we'd find a way to preserve the positive aspects of the system without bringing in the bad effects. People have already mentioned plenty of ideas, and I think these are particularly good ones:

1. Create a "Hall of Fame" subforum where the best threads on the forum can be moved for quick reference. When it's decided (by voting, or by an appropriate authority) that a thread is of superior quality, move it there but keep it open so the discussion can continue. This would replace the rep system's function of highlighting good posts, arguably in a more efficient way because they would be stored in the same place instead of in different people's rep point lists.
2. Limit rep points to one per post. People have pointed out that sometimes someone will get a ton of rep points for one data sheet while someone who makes solid contributions over a period of time doesn't get as much. This might be a reasonable way to make it more fair.
3. Institute a strict ban on rep point-related dick-waving, horse-trading, or crying about not getting repped. If the system exists, the point of it should be to make the forum a more valuable resource, not to boost anybody's ego, and certainly not to cause unwarranted antagonism.
4. For any reforms, do a trial period and see whether it works or not. I guarantee that not all of the consequences of changing the system are going to be predictable and the only to figure out the best course of action is to experiment.
   

Post: #202

How about making different group/tiers for members who post great info on game, lifestyle, and traveling.

Say that a member has posted great reports on countries he's visited, he will move up a tier.

A member drops some great tips on investing and saving money for travelling, he will move up a tier.

A member drops some truth bombs on game for beginners and veterans, he will move up a tier.

A member has been on the forums for over two years, he will move up a tier.

They have to be recognized by not only by the members, but the moderators who will decide if he should move up from the bottom tier (beginner/newbie).

They would be recognized what tier they are in by the colour of their username and maybe a description.

Just a suggestion.

Post: #203

(03-06-2012 07:50 PM)gringochileno Wrote:  One argument that I am not impressed by is the one that says we should have rep points because it's a reward for adding value to the forum. Come on guys, it's a little number on the screen, are you really telling me you care enough about that shit to not make posts that you would otherwise make? Even if you think you need that validation over and above the recognition you get in the form of direct feedback from other members when you write good posts, it's not Roosh's job to give it to you. I don't think we should have to give out gold stars like we're in Kindergarten in order to foster an environment where people are generous about adding value. Maybe it's a sad fact about human nature that people are going to seek validation, but frankly I find that attitude childish.

Maybe someone said this but you are missing the point.

It is a way to "thank someone".

"Thank you's" go a long way and are a forgotten art in this day and age.

Post: #204

(03-06-2012 07:56 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 07:50 PM)gringochileno Wrote:  One argument that I am not impressed by is the one that says we should have rep points because it's a reward for adding value to the forum. Come on guys, it's a little number on the screen, are you really telling me you care enough about that shit to not make posts that you would otherwise make? Even if you think you need that validation over and above the recognition you get in the form of direct feedback from other members when you write good posts, it's not Roosh's job to give it to you. I don't think we should have to give out gold stars like we're in Kindergarten in order to foster an environment where people are generous about adding value. Maybe it's a sad fact about human nature that people are going to seek validation, but frankly I find that attitude childish.

Maybe someone said this but you are missing the point.

It is a way to "thank someone".

"Thank you's" go a long way and are a forgotten art in this day and age.

I understand that but there are ways to say "thank you" without making it into a competition and introducing all the dick-waving and other pathological effects that we've seen lately. One way is to just give that feedback to somebody when they make a good post ("Great data sheet, it helped me out a lot last weekend! Thanks!").

Post: #205

(03-06-2012 08:00 PM)gringochileno Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 07:56 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 07:50 PM)gringochileno Wrote:  One argument that I am not impressed by is the one that says we should have rep points because it's a reward for adding value to the forum. Come on guys, it's a little number on the screen, are you really telling me you care enough about that shit to not make posts that you would otherwise make? Even if you think you need that validation over and above the recognition you get in the form of direct feedback from other members when you write good posts, it's not Roosh's job to give it to you. I don't think we should have to give out gold stars like we're in Kindergarten in order to foster an environment where people are generous about adding value. Maybe it's a sad fact about human nature that people are going to seek validation, but frankly I find that attitude childish.

Maybe someone said this but you are missing the point.

It is a way to "thank someone".

"Thank you's" go a long way and are a forgotten art in this day and age.

I understand that but there are ways to say "thank you" without making it into a competition and introducing all the dick-waving and other pathological effects that we've seen lately. One way is to just give that feedback to somebody when they make a good post ("Great data sheet, it helped me out a lot last weekend! Thanks!").

Again, maybe I am not on the same page with you because I never viewed it as a "competition", nor did I care about them.

With your way, a thread gets clogged up with 20 "thanks" posts.

Not smooth.

Post: #206

I'll admit that I was here a while before I actually noticed the rep points system. Then I thought it was something Roosh was doing, until I clicked on something one day and realized it was a member-to-member thing. So I owe apologies to many of you for not giving a rep point here and there for so long. Just the same, it was readily apparent to me who was dropping knowledge and actively participating on the forum.

Post: #207

Quote:With your way, a thread gets clogged up with 20 "thanks" posts.

Not smooth.

it's actually not as bad as it sounds.

Post: #208

(03-06-2012 08:12 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  I'll admit that I was here a while before I actually noticed the rep points system. Then I thought it was something Roosh was doing, until I clicked on something one day and realized it was a member-to-member thing. So I owe apologies to many of you for not giving a rep point here and there for so long. Just the same, it was readily apparent to me who was dropping knowledge and actively participating on the forum.

I was meaning to give you one now that you mention

Here just take this
[attachment=5182]

Post: #209

(03-06-2012 08:10 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 08:00 PM)gringochileno Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 07:56 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 07:50 PM)gringochileno Wrote:  One argument that I am not impressed by is the one that says we should have rep points because it's a reward for adding value to the forum. Come on guys, it's a little number on the screen, are you really telling me you care enough about that shit to not make posts that you would otherwise make? Even if you think you need that validation over and above the recognition you get in the form of direct feedback from other members when you write good posts, it's not Roosh's job to give it to you. I don't think we should have to give out gold stars like we're in Kindergarten in order to foster an environment where people are generous about adding value. Maybe it's a sad fact about human nature that people are going to seek validation, but frankly I find that attitude childish.

Maybe someone said this but you are missing the point.

It is a way to "thank someone".

"Thank you's" go a long way and are a forgotten art in this day and age.

I understand that but there are ways to say "thank you" without making it into a competition and introducing all the dick-waving and other pathological effects that we've seen lately. One way is to just give that feedback to somebody when they make a good post ("Great data sheet, it helped me out a lot last weekend! Thanks!").

Again, maybe I am not on the same page with you because I never viewed it as a "competition", nor did I care about them.

With your way, a thread gets clogged up with 20 "thanks" posts.

Not smooth.

I don't view them as a competition either, but the problem is that some people did. Frankly, you've been a model citizen about this stuff--if everyone took the same attitude towards rep points that you do, we wouldn't have a problem.

If a thread's cluttered you can send a PM. I wasn't trying to give the definitive solution to this, just pointing out that it's possible to say thanks without giving out little gold stars that people compare to everyone else's gold stars.

Post: #210

To be fair, look at how many rep points Dash Global had. And he had no fuckin' clue what he was talking about.

P.S. Roosh, I want my 312 rep points back.

Post: #211

(03-06-2012 08:17 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  I was meaning to give you one now that you mention

Here just take this

Ha!

El Mech has "Reputation 44" in his signature.

Damn! I was going to give you a rep point for that!

Post: #212

(03-06-2012 08:13 PM)drymarro Wrote:  

Quote:With your way, a thread gets clogged up with 20 "thanks" posts.

Not smooth.

it's actually not as bad as it sounds.

I think we can all agree not to post one-word "thanks" posts. Within larger posts guys gave give their props. We need to all be in the mindset of wanting to add value and contribute in some way, either by asking a question, further elaborating on something, adding your own experience, or even challenging something if your experience was different. This is probably why we need something at the bottom of the post that we can click on, so even if you don't want to post, but want to acknowledge, you can do so without cluttering a thread.

Post: #213

(03-06-2012 08:24 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 08:13 PM)drymarro Wrote:  

Quote:With your way, a thread gets clogged up with 20 "thanks" posts.

Not smooth.

it's actually not as bad as it sounds.

I think we can all agree not to post one-word "thanks" posts. Within larger posts guys gave give their props. We need to all be in the mindset of wanting to add value and contribute in some way, either by asking a question, further elaborating on something, adding your own experience, or even challenging something if your experience was different. This is probably why we need something at the bottom of the post that we can click on, so even if you don't want to post, but want to acknowledge, you can do so without cluttering a thread.

Good idea. This would also help identify posts that are candidates for the Hall of Fame if that idea gets implemented.

Post: #214

There's a mod for MyBB forum software (the one rvf is using) that enables users to thank, or like a specific post - without bumping the thread. I saw this on several forums, and it works pretty well, since you are effectively repping a specific post, rather than an user.

Might be something worth considering.

mods. mybb.com/view/thank-you-like-system

Post: #215

The only true rep point in a forum like this is your notch count, which most guys obviously can't be trusted to be truthful about anyway.

Like G and I have said, rep points were just a way of publicly giving a thanks. Nothing more.

Post: #216

(03-06-2012 08:27 PM)gringochileno Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 08:24 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 08:13 PM)drymarro Wrote:  

Quote:With your way, a thread gets clogged up with 20 "thanks" posts.

Not smooth.

it's actually not as bad as it sounds.

I think we can all agree not to post one-word "thanks" posts. Within larger posts guys gave give their props. We need to all be in the mindset of wanting to add value and contribute in some way, either by asking a question, further elaborating on something, adding your own experience, or even challenging something if your experience was different. This is probably why we need something at the bottom of the post that we can click on, so even if you don't want to post, but want to acknowledge, you can do so without cluttering a thread.

Good idea. This would also help identify posts that are candidates for the Hall of Fame if that idea gets implemented.

that's what I mentioned maybe 2 times already.

Post: #217

I mean fuck. Emech only had like 4.4 rep points, but he is a great poster. Neil had a bunch of points and he's lost in the sauce.

Btw, Neil, I repped you. Here ya go.

   

Post: #218

It's about time! I was suffering from a huge power trip, thanks to my 3 rep points and it was really messing up my game. I'd just walk up to girls and be like: "Names Cookie, I'm a three pointer on Roosh's forum. How do you like your eggs in the morning?"

Post: #219

(03-06-2012 09:34 PM)Cookie Wrote:  It's about time! I was suffering from a huge power trip, thanks to my 3 rep points and it was really messing up my game. I'd just walk up to girls and be like: "Names Cookie, I'm a three pointer on Roosh's forum. How do you like your eggs in the morning?"

Messing up your Game?

That sounds like Strong Game!

Post: #220

(03-06-2012 09:03 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  I mean fuck. Emech only had like 4.4 rep points, but he is a great poster. Neil had a bunch of points and he's lost in the sauce.

Btw, Neil, I repped you. Here ya go.

I forgot to give you a lil sumpin for the Suriname sheet
[attachment=5186]
There ya go..you can travel with it so you wont get homesick

Post: #221

(03-06-2012 09:34 PM)Cookie Wrote:  It's about time! I was suffering from a huge power trip, thanks to my 3 rep points and it was really messing up my game. I'd just walk up to girls and be like: "Names Cookie, I'm a three pointer on Roosh's forum. How do you like your eggs in the morning?"

Oh please, I once showed a girl my forum 12-pointer and then we banged right there. You want a data sheet on that? That's worth 10 extra reps or 5 mechanico chocolates

I think the seeds of a black market rep system is being placed by mechanico and aliblablah...

Seriously, though it's unfortunate that disabling reps has caused grief among the members and bummed to see Mixx go. Mixx: I'm not your level of game but my beta ass is standing and walking a bit taller from reading you, hope you return. If not, it's been fun.

I've been guilty of getting a little cocky on the noobs sometimes, so to contribute to the feeling that rep points became "oppression" tools I'm sorry.

That said, it would be interesting how this would play out for a month if no reps are awarded.

However, I'm for an alternate rep system where points are given on the good posts directly and somehow reflected on a member's avatar. Members have argued already the pros and I agree for the most part that we need a system of thanking someone and recognition of whose words carry weight.

Post: #222

I thought of an idea.

How about if we gave Neil Skywalker a 100 rep point bonus?

Would the madness end then?

Post: #223

(03-06-2012 11:29 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  I thought of an idea.

How about if we gave Neil Skywalker a 100 rep point bonus?

Would the madness end then?

It's a start. Then we have to give anyone who travels with more cash than he has a -100 to even it up. And Greek kamaki gets a -300 and can only post in a separate sub-forum

Post: #224

(03-06-2012 06:43 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  Neil was definitely an underrated member. So was Naughty Nomad, though he did post that one pic of an Armenian girl he claimed to swoop that someone later found on a random online site. That one was never explained.

Interesting...I think NN is great but always wondered how someone could have the best possible time in every imaginable shithole in the world.

Post: #225

My 2cents on what seems to be a bit of a shit storm.

I spend way more time here than I should because its one of the few places on the web where travel and pussy are the two common themes shared. I am welcomed for being the sex predator I am and it gives me the warm and fuzzies to know Im not the only one going to hell for this. There are also a broad range of personalities and people which adds a great deal of value too, as it adds different perspective. My contributions have come out of shared interest, not a desire for recognition. What brings me back is the content, and the quality of the content is good because there is little tolerance for retarded behavior and excessive marketing for whatever PUA gimmick of the week just hit.

There has been times where the rep whoring has been blatant though and it has detracted from the forum. Dash was driven to knock out data sheets because he was rep whoring, look how that turned out. He is not the first, he was just one who got caught. Then this crap about elite sections of the forum came up, which to me is a crock of shit. The last thing anyone needs is even more rep whoring and ass kissing to get access to some special playground. The content should be out in the open and everyone who wants to contribute something should feel welcome to do so

Im going to be frank here. Mixx has been a solid contributor, but the guy is an egotistical maniac at times. It came as no surprise that he crapped himself because in everything he does there seems to be this pervasive sense and desire for validation. The rep system here was his validation. When we were not getting stories of mother/daughter blowjob combos or 100 one night stands in a year, we were being told that its all cheating if its not the way its done in Miami or Colombia. I hope he comes back because he has offered a lot and has been one of the best contributors here, but you cannot have one or two personalities throwing up walls between segments of the community, using popularity as justification for it. Or, to make matters worse, hammering on the new guys with a shotgun that is a high rep count.

Out of all the suggestions I have seen so far, the one where there is a "thanks" system in place makes the most sense to me. Guys are thanked for that post or that particular contribution, and that gradually adds to their total rep. I have seen it too and it seems to be a good system. Its in the open, its quick to do, requires no real comments. Hit one button, the list of people who thanked the contributor are listed below, and its done. You can see what contributions people appreciate and you will see more of it as a result of that instead of it being something that happens on the backend

Whatever keeps the quality of the content up I say.

Im off to Ashgabat on Friday, Ill get a data sheet out on it once I return.