Post: #1

Waddup!?

I just finished my masters degree in a business-related field and could possibly get a well-paid job, finally becoming financially independent while making my mom proud.

Or, try to get an internet gig started and hopefully earn sufficient to become location independet a year or so from now. Meanwhile, I continue working in a hostel to pay my bills. Thing is, I have to start from scratch and know very little about coding, ect. which make the entire endeavour kinda risky.

Another option would be to get a possition in some Inet-based company/start up, hoping that Ill learn something which enables me to successfully get some gig of my own started later on.

Although, I just finished my masters, Im almost 30, since I started a little late and thus, time to get a "real job" is running out...

Post: #2

Key word "possibly"....do you have any real world business experience outside of working in a hostel, or just a fancy post-graduate degree?

If, at the age of 30, making your mom proud is one of your priorities then I don't know where to begin....

If I were in your shoes, I'd get a real job for now, gain experience and pay off any debts if you have them.

I'm a bit leery about the whole making money off the internet thing, for sure some guys make tonnes of dough off it, I'm actually jealous, fuck I'd much rather sit at home in my underwear and make money than do the job I do. Maybe I'm old fashioned or something and I should get with the times but I don't understand the aversion to actually doing "real" work.

Don't take this too personally, but from my observations, guys like you are what wrong with young people today (I"m the same age as you BTW, 29): no one wants to do hard work anymore or get their hands dirty, lots of people staying school too long and many seek a pipe dream lifestyle where they don't have to work, making money off the internet, power to those who do but it seems like a VERY small minority of guys actually pull it off.

Post: #3

I'd say do both.

It seems like you're erring on the optimistic side of both; i.e. You'll get a good paying full time job, or you'll have a successful Internet Business.

Telling you honestly: Both those things are hard to accomplish. You're going to have to put in a lot of hard work either way, and as you're not sure, probably edging your bets and doing a little of both is best. Get a reasonable job which pays the bills, start some stuff up on the side. I'm not sure why everybody picks the Internet, there is plenty of offline stuff (e.g. Most of business in the whole world!) with a lot less local competition.

The distinction you make (Lifetime Career vs. Freedom of self-employment) isn't a real world thing. You'll have shit days as an entrepeneur and customers/jobs you really don't want to do, and working for someone else might let you live location-independent and have a load of perks. The only way you're going to get those perks for either is if you do the work required. Work smart and work hard.
Being 30 is nothing to do with it.

scotian Wrote:Don't take this too personally, but from my observations, guys like you are what wrong with young people today (I"m the same age as you BTW, 29): no one wants to do hard work anymore or get their hands dirty, lots of people staying school too long and many seek a pipe dream lifestyle where they don't have to work, making money off the internet, power to those who do but it seems like a VERY small minority of guys actually pull it off.

I can see where you're coming from, but I think it is a little harsh. Self-employment, even on the Internet, is not sitting in underwear doing nothing. Added to that, getting your hands dirty and working hard used to work once upon a time. Hell, I'd love to go back to the days where you could work hard and be an honest man and provide for your family by getting dirty hands.

Now, you just get fucked by society. Working hard your whole life to get raped by tax-men, wives, and the complete lack of retirement there is going to be when you're old and your health gives in? Why not try for some creative solutions before your back (or your heart gives in.) Yeah, very few people make it in the self-made-man game, but very few people make it as white collar guys (law, medicine, accounts, banking, etc.) Yet the schools are still full as though what was true 50 years ago (Get a job, save for your pension, get married, get kids) is still true now. Blue collar is just the same - it's all full of young-bucks and old guys who wish they'd leveraged themselves earlier.

Not to be doom and gloom, both views have their place, which is why I suggest both.

Congrats to OP on getting the Masters. Time to stop planning/stockpiling skills and start living life. I hope you enjoy it!

Post: #4

Being self employed can be a high stress lifestyle. There are benefits, but you pay for them. Eventually, if you believe in your abilities like a foolish fanatic, you'll probably do well, but that could take 6 months, or 10 years.

Some of us choose entrepreneurship not really as a business decision, but because of our temperaments. We'd rather be stubbornly risking all on our own ventures for little or no return working 14 hours a day then getting a handsome paycheck working for someone else.

As a strictly business decision, it makes most sense to get a stable job and build your own businesses in your free time. Then quit your job when your businesses can support you.

Regardless of which choice you make, focus on learning to live inexpensively. As an entrepreneur you will need a much bigger savings base than you realize.

A piece of entreneurship advice: focus your time on what pays the most money. Sounds simple, but it's very easy to get distracted in time sucks, such as answering customer support emails, or doing your accounting. Even starting new ventures can distract you from your core business that is doing the best and has the most growth potential. Focus on what will build your income, and ignore details and sidelines as much as possible. Automate and outsource the grunt work.

Also - your brain only has so many hours of quality work in it per day and per week. You'll need to learn to ration it. Meaning don't spend your leisure time in the type of heavy brain work needed for your business. Your time is a resource, and so is your focused brainpower. You might find you can go for a heavy work stint for a week or ten days of 14 hours a day, but eventually you'll burn out. That's a schedule I enjoy - I like to work hard for a while, but then find that I want an extended time of softer focus, and need to change the subject of interest. If you have some experience with mood swings such as manic/depression it's a similar theme - any manic phase will be followed by a crash, so limit your manic phases if you want to even out your mood and tempo. Regular rest is as important as regular work - without it you won't work efficiently. Entrepreneurs often need more discipline to stop working than to keep working. Notice when it's Sunday.


Finally, you'll need to work at something that can maintain your interest.

Post: #5

do both....that's what weekend's and nights are for.....

Post: #6

(03-04-2012 12:34 PM)BoiBoi Wrote:  Another option would be to get a possition in some Inet-based company/start up, hoping that Ill learn something which enables me to successfully get some gig of my own started later on.

I think you know this is the right choice.

Post: #7

Thanks for commenting guys.

(03-04-2012 12:54 PM)scotian Wrote:  Key word "possibly"....do you have any real world business experience outside of working in a hostel, or just a fancy post-graduate degree?

If, at the age of 30, making your mom proud is one of your priorities then I don't know where to begin....

I got my fancy degree, did some internships, speak some languages and had different kinda jobs to pay the bills, but thats about it, no real business expertise here and yes, the degree is barely more than a fancy piece of paper, nothing to really rely on.
The mom-bit was just a figure of speech, but shed certainly be proud of her son working for a nice company...

Anyways, Im well aware that being self-employed means a lot of hustling/struggeling, including failure and setbacks, but I still think that the pros make up for the stress.

(03-05-2012 03:34 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(03-04-2012 12:34 PM)BoiBoi Wrote:  Another option would be to get a possition in some Inet-based company/start up, hoping that Ill learn something which enables me to successfully get some gig of my own started later on.

I think you know this is the right choice.

Yeah, I know. Working with people who are already successfull is the best way to get started. Too bad that I have to quit my hostel job eventually...spring/sommer=more tourists=more foreign pussy...

(03-04-2012 06:53 PM)Kitsune Wrote:  Congrats to OP on getting the Masters. Time to stop planning/stockpiling skills and start living life. I hope you enjoy it!

Thanks man, I will.

Post: #8

Do both. Get a job and work on stuff on the side. I guess you can succeed faster with an your own business if you just 'went all in' and burned all of your bridges, but it's also a huge risk.

I'm in the same boat, with my experience I can get a regular job that pays in the 50-60k a year range, it's stable but I really don't like working for corporations anymore. At the same time I work on things and ideas to make money on the side. I don't care what it is or how unrealistic it may seem at this moment, I work on aquiring diverse sources of income. I also dream of being location independent with lots of cash, but for now just completely leaving the system is not an option.

Keep in mind that one of the great things about the US is the opportunity to make decent money. Sure 40k a year in the US does not seem like much, but there are millions in the world who would die for that opportunity. That's my take. If you keep working on it, things will work out in the end.

Post: #9

(03-04-2012 12:34 PM)BoiBoi Wrote:  Waddup!?

I just finished my masters degree in a business-related field and could possibly get a well-paid job, finally becoming financially independent while making my mom proud.

Or, try to get an internet gig started and hopefully earn sufficient to become location independet a year or so from now. Meanwhile, I continue working in a hostel to pay my bills. Thing is, I have to start from scratch and know very little about coding, ect. which make the entire endeavour kinda risky.

Another option would be to get a possition in some Inet-based company/start up, hoping that Ill learn something which enables me to successfully get some gig of my own started later on.

Although, I just finished my masters, Im almost 30, since I started a little late and thus, time to get a "real job" is running out...

You have to be really honest with yourself before deciding. A lot of people are not cut out working for themselves.

I worked far more then when I was working for someone else and I wasn't a slacker then. haha

I have had to learn a variety of skills in order to survive compared to a subset of skills when I was working for someone else.

Post: #10

A man comes to a fork in the road. To one side he has security. On the other side he has freedom. Security is the corporate/job world. Freedom is the entrepreneurial world.

Problem is, that by selecting "security" over freedom, you usually end up losing both.

Freedom uber alles!

Post: #11

Self-employment is a values thing. I noticed many young entrepreneurs are thinking money, bitches, and boss status with being your own boss but they are naive.

Let us not throw the baby out with the bath water in benefits of finding a decent job.

I think having a nice steady income, great health benefits, a great work environment, wonderful colleagues, lots of opportunity for promotion, some decent time off, and job security is something that many people take for granted. I wouldn't worry about liking the job so much as what you will get out of doing the job that will make the drawbacks of the job easier to deal with.

Spending 12 hours a day trying to launch a company, that may yield little to no return, and the emotional hang ups that would entail, a job working for THE MAN doesn't sounds so bad, especially as you near thirty and most of your friends are enjoying nights out on the town not having to keep track of their bar tab, while you are steady counting how much a long island iced tea will eat into your grocery and gas money.


However, like one poster alluded too, most self-made men are not in it for the money. I think they have a philosophy that understands as long as you are working for someone else somebody owns your ass. Or as Alexander Hamilton said, "Whoever controls a man's salary controls his free will." or something to that degree. Some people can't live without the freedom being their own boss entails. Some would rather live in someone's basement making 20k a year of their own accord than making 300k a year working for a law firm. Perhaps those men and women are choosing wisely.

I pursue self-employment because I need to be in a job where I can speak my mind, journalism, blogging, writing ebooks, novels, etc. In the corporate world you can't "not give a fuck." Not giving a fuck gets you fired.

Look in the mirror man. See what values you are willing to suffer for. Those are the ones that tend to lead you to your destiny (for better or worse).

Post: #12

(03-07-2012 07:26 PM)Commander Shepard Wrote:  Self-employment is a values thing. I noticed many young entrepreneurs are thinking money, bitches, and boss status with being your own boss but they are naive.

Let us not throw the baby out with the bath water in benefits of finding a decent job.

I think having a nice steady income, great health benefits, a great work environment, wonderful colleagues, lots of opportunity for promotion, some decent time off, and job security is something that many people take for granted. I wouldn't worry about liking the job so much as what you will get out of doing the job that will make doing the job easier.

Spending 12 hours a day trying to launch a company, that may yield little to no return, and the emotional hang ups that would entail, a job working for THE MAN doesn't sounds so bad, especially as you near thirty and most of your friends are enjoying nights out on the town not having to keep track of their bar tab, while you are steady counting how much a long island iced tea will eat into your grocery and gas money.


However, like one poster alluded too, most self-made men are not in it for the money. I think they have a philosophy that understands as long as you are working for someone else somebody owns your ass. Or as Alexander Hamilton said, "Whoever controls a man's salary controls his free will." or something to that degree. Some people can't live without the freedom being their own boss entails. Some would rather live in someone's basement making 20k a year of their own accord than making 300k a year working for a law firm. Perhaps those men and women are choosing wisely.

I pursue self-employment because I need to be in a job where I can speak my own mind, journalism, blogging, writing ebooks, novels, etc. In the corporate world you can't "not give a fuck." Not giving a fuck gets you fired.

Look in the mirror man. See what values you are willing to suffer for. Those are the ones that tend to lead you to your destiny (for better or worse).

If you stay focused, motivated, and work at it you can make wayy more money and you have the ability to travel anywhere anytime while still making bank.
yeah I prefer that.

Post: #13

(03-07-2012 07:29 PM)drymarro Wrote:  

(03-07-2012 07:26 PM)Commander Shepard Wrote:  Self-employment is a values thing. I noticed many young entrepreneurs are thinking money, bitches, and boss status with being your own boss but they are naive.

Let us not throw the baby out with the bath water in benefits of finding a decent job.

I think having a nice steady income, great health benefits, a great work environment, wonderful colleagues, lots of opportunity for promotion, some decent time off, and job security is something that many people take for granted. I wouldn't worry about liking the job so much as what you will get out of doing the job that will make doing the job easier.

Spending 12 hours a day trying to launch a company, that may yield little to no return, and the emotional hang ups that would entail, a job working for THE MAN doesn't sounds so bad, especially as you near thirty and most of your friends are enjoying nights out on the town not having to keep track of their bar tab, while you are steady counting how much a long island iced tea will eat into your grocery and gas money.


However, like one poster alluded too, most self-made men are not in it for the money. I think they have a philosophy that understands as long as you are working for someone else somebody owns your ass. Or as Alexander Hamilton said, "Whoever controls a man's salary controls his free will." or something to that degree. Some people can't live without the freedom being their own boss entails. Some would rather live in someone's basement making 20k a year of their own accord than making 300k a year working for a law firm. Perhaps those men and women are choosing wisely.

I pursue self-employment because I need to be in a job where I can speak my own mind, journalism, blogging, writing ebooks, novels, etc. In the corporate world you can't "not give a fuck." Not giving a fuck gets you fired.

Look in the mirror man. See what values you are willing to suffer for. Those are the ones that tend to lead you to your destiny (for better or worse).

If you stay focused, motivated, and work at it you can make wayy more money and you have the ability to travel anywhere anytime while still making bank.
yeah I prefer that.

Yeah, I'm all about thinking like a winner. I got Kobe Bryant in me as well. But lets be objective. A lot, if not most, start-up companies fail.

Post: #14

(03-07-2012 07:37 PM)Commander Shepard Wrote:  Yeah, I'm all about thinking like a winner. I got Kobe Bryant in me as well. But lets be objective. A lot, if not most, start-up companies fail.

That's because they aim for big ideas. If you go small and become a consultant for SEO or other Internet Marketing it's easier to succeed. Now is the time to take advantage though.

Post: #15

(03-07-2012 07:41 PM)drymarro Wrote:  

(03-07-2012 07:37 PM)Commander Shepard Wrote:  Yeah, I'm all about thinking like a winner. I got Kobe Bryant in me as well. But lets be objective. A lot, if not most, start-up companies fail.

That's because they aim for big ideas. If you go small and become a consultant for SEO or other Internet Marketing it's easier to succeed. Now is the time to take advantage though.

Great idea! Anything you can like me to to give me some more information on that chosen career path?

Post: #16

(03-07-2012 07:49 PM)Commander Shepard Wrote:  

(03-07-2012 07:41 PM)drymarro Wrote:  

(03-07-2012 07:37 PM)Commander Shepard Wrote:  Yeah, I'm all about thinking like a winner. I got Kobe Bryant in me as well. But lets be objective. A lot, if not most, start-up companies fail.

That's because they aim for big ideas. If you go small and become a consultant for SEO or other Internet Marketing it's easier to succeed. Now is the time to take advantage though.

Great idea! Anything you can like me to to give me some more information on that chosen career path?

I don't feel like wasting my time with your sarcasm so here.
http://www.blackhatworld.com
don't get lost though. it's very easy to.
pick one thing you like and stick with it.

Post: #17

(03-07-2012 07:56 PM)drymarro Wrote:  

(03-07-2012 07:49 PM)Commander Shepard Wrote:  

(03-07-2012 07:41 PM)drymarro Wrote:  

(03-07-2012 07:37 PM)Commander Shepard Wrote:  Yeah, I'm all about thinking like a winner. I got Kobe Bryant in me as well. But lets be objective. A lot, if not most, start-up companies fail.

That's because they aim for big ideas. If you go small and become a consultant for SEO or other Internet Marketing it's easier to succeed. Now is the time to take advantage though.

Great idea! Anything you can like me to to give me some more information on that chosen career path?

I don't feel like wasting my time with your sarcasm so here.
http://www.blackhatworld.com
don't get lost though. it's very easy to.
pick one thing you like and stick with it.

I wasn't being sarcastic. I really did like your idea.

Post: #18

Self-Employment >>> Why be a job-seeker when you can be a job-provider !!!

Post: #19

Education v. Employment
Doctorate - Work for someone else. Your pay will be enough to make it rewarding, and the world is your oyster.
Masters - Work for someone else, maybe start a startup sometime if it interests you.
Bachelors - Work to get out of loan debt, a startup if you have a good idea is a great idea.
Associates - Your loan debt is probably small; a startup or alternative is probably better.
Anything less - Start a business NOW. If you don't have a business you're going to be treated like a portapotty at Disneyworld next to the Mexican stand. People without degrees who don't have businesses sell drugs or kill people.

Never count on your job for your survival if you live in America without a very advanced degree. Otherwise you will be on a treadmill working your ass off and begging for that 3% raise to keep up with inflation until the day they fire you for someone who's new and cheaper.

Post: #20

(03-07-2012 07:56 PM)drymarro Wrote:  

(03-07-2012 07:49 PM)Commander Shepard Wrote:  

(03-07-2012 07:41 PM)drymarro Wrote:  

(03-07-2012 07:37 PM)Commander Shepard Wrote:  Yeah, I'm all about thinking like a winner. I got Kobe Bryant in me as well. But lets be objective. A lot, if not most, start-up companies fail.

That's because they aim for big ideas. If you go small and become a consultant for SEO or other Internet Marketing it's easier to succeed. Now is the time to take advantage though.

Great idea! Anything you can like me to to give me some more information on that chosen career path?

I don't feel like wasting my time with your sarcasm so here.
http://www.blackhatworld.com
don't get lost though. it's very easy to.
pick one thing you like and stick with it.

Find a business model that other people have already profited from (there's quite a few in blackhatworld). Automate/streamline it, outsource it and scale it massively. Give me three months and I'll report back on this and prove the haters wrong.

Post: #21

(03-06-2012 11:04 AM)reaper23 Wrote:  A man comes to a fork in the road. To one side he has security. On the other side he has freedom. Security is the corporate/job world. Freedom is the entrepreneurial world.

Problem is, that by selecting "security" over freedom, you usually end up losing both.

Freedom uber alles!

take the red pill man...


and end up in bankrupty court

i see a lot of wishful thinking here. entrepreneurship can work for some, but it all depends on your individual character, skills and connections. in my personal optimisation problem i probably weight the freedom afforded by self employment less than many others

our generous host on this forum is a great example of someone who's location independent and self employed. his business model is time honoured - write shit that people want to buy - but it wouldn't work for most, who lack the temperament or writing ability or simply the market for their work. not sure i could carve out the same audience if i decided to start producing pua centred travel guides tomorrow...

Post: #22

I say get a steady well paying job and do your own business on the side. If your business grows substatially then you can quit your "steady" job and go full time with your side passion. It's a win-win situation!

Post: #23

Try applying for the Tropical MBA Internship, they advertise new ones every couple of months.
http://www.tropicalmba.com

If you want the location independent lifestyle find a Internet based startup to work at and learn the ropes on there.

I'd apply for the Tropical MBA Internships in a snap if I didn't have school starting in September.

Internet Marketing isn't easy, a lot of frustration and hard work. But if you do well in it it will ultimately be worth it in the end.

Post: #24

(04-08-2012 03:59 PM)whitenoise Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 11:04 AM)reaper23 Wrote:  A man comes to a fork in the road. To one side he has security. On the other side he has freedom. Security is the corporate/job world. Freedom is the entrepreneurial world.

Problem is, that by selecting "security" over freedom, you usually end up losing both.

Freedom uber alles!

take the red pill man...


and end up in bankrupty court

i see a lot of wishful thinking here. entrepreneurship can work for some, but it all depends on your individual character, skills and connections. in my personal optimisation problem i probably weight the freedom afforded by self employment less than many others

our generous host on this forum is a great example of someone who's location independent and self employed. his business model is time honoured - write shit that people want to buy - but it wouldn't work for most, who lack the temperament or writing ability or simply the market for their work. not sure i could carve out the same audience if i decided to start producing pua centred travel guides tomorrow...

thank you whitenoise. I am sick of these delusional shite that flows like watery crap from horse's arse, for jupiter's sake.
I am guessing most of them have never actually attempted to start a business before(especially without mommy/daddy's help). I have attempted 5 different ones before settling on stocks market trading. only 2 was decently successful. It was bloody hell of a hardwork.

I am sick to death of the dichotomous nonsense: money over bitches, time vs money, travel vs dont travel, ad nauseam.

Speaking of roosh, what keeps his product fresh is the continuous traveling. It infuses it with fresh ideas, data, perspective, and vitality. Given the number of cultures and countries on the planet, he can literally keep this up for the next 10 years if he wants to. The constant traveling provides new source of material for his work, otherwise, it will just turns into over-written, over-wrought, arm-chair intellectualization that roissy practices.

p.s. i have no idea why anybody cannot do traditional job and also start a business on the side until the business becomes successful enough to quit the traditional job.