Post: #1

RVFers:

As post says I'm struggling to choose between money and freedom.

1. Choice one is money, perhaps saving 40k USD for the year. I would work for 5 months, 7 days a week at least 8am-6pm but also includes a commuter bus 40 minutes to and from work (I could eat dinner on the bus ride back, so not a complete waste of time). Then a 1 month break. Then another 4 months of 24 hours a week, probably 3-4 days a week for these hours, still with the commuter bus. Then another one month break.

**EDIT** I'm ok working these long hours. I work something like this now but I don't have to commute. This would be a new thing but my salary went up. I negotiated for something higher than this year if I do it again.

2. Choice two is for freedom. I would be lucky to save 10k USD, probably less, which doesn't sit right with me. But the plus side, I would work 4-5 months of 14 hours a week, a 5 minute walk from my door. Probably 8am to noon, 3-4 days a week. Maybe a 3 day weekend. Then I get one month off. THEN, the kicker, I would work for only a 8 week stretch, then I would get 3 months off, paid. The pay for that year would be 1k USD for each month, with free housing and utilities. Very little work, but little pay.

I already have 100kUSD liquid and more in mutual funds and have been saving hard for the last 5 years. I paid off all my loans and am debt free, but I really wanted to save 200-300k and retire with some rentals and maybe a part time job for fun (work at a rock climbing gym or a board game store).

I turn 34 this summer so I feel as though Im getting older and will soon be out of the "younger guy" period of my life, making getting laid by younger girls much harder. So I do worry about that. I look very young for my age though.

Especially from the older guys: better to strike while the iron is hot and save big another 2-3 years or just kick back and have fun, worry about tomorrow at some later date?

Any advice or heckling welcome.


****EDIT*****

My main question is: I don't have any marketable skills other than teaching English in China and speaking Chinese very well. Should I make sure to make money or just have fun? I'm very risk averse so the money seems like a good idea, but also it is nice because I don't have to think about the future. I can wait another year to consider what I really want while the money stacks up.

Post: #2

Why not take Job 2 and pair it with a second part-time gig so that you can bank extra cash?

Also, with $100K liquid cash, you've got the assets to go into business for yourself. You don't need to be a wage slave.

I know what I'd be doing here in China if I had $100K liquid.

HINT: Not teaching English

Post: #3

I am in a similar boat as you except i have already made my decision: MONEY.

I already have some rental income but not enough to quit my job so my plan for the next 1.5 - 2 years would be to save a ton and my next investment should be enough to retire. A few years ago i chose "freedom" but i realized i didn't have enough side income to really be free so now i am back in this position.

I highly recommend you take the high paying job and suffer now. If you don't you are just kicking the can down the road. If you are going to quit or 'retire' you better make sure you have enough.

Post: #4

With $100 liquid, you can start almost any type of venture you can think of. Hell, you could even partner up with a Chinese guy and open an English school in China.

I second Suit's post.

Edit: I would pick option 2.

Post: #5

I thought a little more on this and have some suggestions.

If you've got $100K liquid, you've got enough to fulfill the start-up cash requirements of a WFOE corporation in China in virtually any industry.

On the other hand, $100K is not that much money. A few screw-ups and you could blow through that pretty fast.

My suggestion, keep working enough at jobs like Option B, that you can self-maintain on, but aren't aimed banking cash.

Use your free time to run a business, but focus on smart profits, rather than quick growth.

When you have a non-business income to self-maintain on, you can be choosy about clients and can focus on building a reputation of quality.

Unfortunately in China, you need to chose between two tough options.

You've got cities like BJ and SH, where locals and more recent arrivals can recognize quality and competition is fierce because you need to be at the top of your game and the best in the business to stand a chance.

Then you've got everywhere else, where locals will eat a Western style restaurant that serves terrible food and not even notice, because they have no idea of what good is. They'll happily pay for the "international experience" just to feel cultured with no expectation of quality. You can't succeed in a market like that by spending the extra money to offer quality, unless you are prepared to educated your consumers on how to appreciate said quality first.

If you don't have strong skills in a particular industry, you either need to educate yourself or hire trustworthy people who do.

Don't open a restaurant. It's the #1 most likely to fail business (aside from print magazines). Too much overhead, no guarantees.

Don't open an English school. Too much competition and garbage regulation.

Open something small with fixed costs that you can earn at your day job each month. Once you've got a working model, you can scale up and consider moving into the 100 cities that China plans to populate with millions of people in the next 30 years.

Avoid BJ and SH, unless you want to put a flagship location in one of these cities, just for appearances sake. The competition is heavy here. Although there may be exceptions that would only work in BJ or SH, I'd push for Shenzhen as a smarter choice, because it has a sophisticated audience that is starved for quality, internationalized service, product and entertainment options.

Post: #6

Better to suffer now and cash in while you can! Don't even think about women in this matter. They'll always be there while money will not. If you dismiss pussy completely then the choice is obvious my man! How many single 35 year old guy can afford this kind of lifestyle without any nagging and bitching coming from a spouse? Consider this money offer a blessing for taking the Red Pill and being money savvy!

Post: #7

(04-08-2015 09:33 AM)ball dont lie Wrote:  I already have 100kUSD liquid and more in mutual funds and have been saving hard for the last 5 years. I paid off all my loans and am debt free, but I really wanted to save 200-300k and retire with some rentals and maybe a part time job for fun (work at a rock climbing gym or a board game store).

I turn 34 this summer so I feel as though Im getting older and will soon be out of the "younger guy" period of my life, making getting laid by younger girls much harder. So I do worry about that. I look very young for my age though.....

.....
My main question is: I don't have any marketable skills other than teaching English in China and speaking Chinese very well. Should I make sure to make money or just have fun? I'm very risk averse so the money seems like a good idea, but also it is nice because I don't have to think about the future. I can wait another year to consider what I really want while the money stacks up.

Dude, I hate to say it, but you're having some unrealistic expectations here. You're planning to call it quits on your career in your mid 30s with best case scenario 300k? Even if you were 60+ that would be chump change, but you're 30s. But fine, let's say you're going for the minimalist lifestyle in some low cost of living locale that you will supplement with part time work.

Maybe that's doable in the sense that you won't starve to death, but you will be stagnating and unhappy. How long can a dude in the prime of life be satisfied with barely making ends meet and working a dead end part time job? I know people are different, but I personally couldn't imagine settling for that kind of existence. You'll just grow tired of it after a few years max and then you'll realize you still have no skills and no direction, but now you're that much older.

If I were you I would abandon the idea that your gameplan should be to retire anytime soon. If you were a successful entrepreneur or had spent your 20s stacking mad $$$ on Wall Street you may have had the option, but you're not.

I have no idea what your personal preferences are regarding a type of career or where you want to live, but you're not too old to make yourself marketable. If you're currently in China and speak fluent Chinese your best bet is to try and transcend the teaching nonsense and get a "real" job. If you can't manage to do that (and it's no easy task) then your best bet, depending on your risk tolerance, is to either start a business (high risk) or take some time off to acquire a marketable masters degree. The worst thing you can do is spend the next few years continuing to teach English. You will gain no skills or value, and the small amount of extra money you will earn will make no material difference to your future.

Post: #8

(04-08-2015 07:59 PM)Suits Wrote:  I thought a little more on this and have some suggestions.

If you've got $100K liquid, you've got enough to fulfill the start-up cash requirements of a WFOE corporation in China in virtually any industry.

On the other hand, $100K is not that much money. A few screw-ups and you could blow through that pretty fast.

Hey thanks for the suggestions Suits.

The thing is, I hate dealing with Chinese people within a business framework: they are dishonest, lack confidence and so they get pissy and worst of all they are vindictive.

I have friends here in my city that work for BMW and parts suppliers for BMW/Brilliance Auto. The shit they complain about is absurd and I would kill someone. I make more money teaching English except for the real engineers at BMW than all the other people working here doing real jobs: ie accountants, controllers, human resources.

Other guys I know here have opened restaurants and they work LONG hours. From what I see they are not making money.

I'm not much of a business person. I like to teach because I get some good discussions going, I help young people and I live in a beautiful university campus instead of a loud, crowded urban area. Its peach blossom season on campus now and its pleasant. I walk around between classes and sit on park benches, seems better than business to me. But that's a personal feeling, everyone is different.

Usually I talk to my superiors twice a year: I get my schedule and I turn in my scores. Sometimes those are done by email and then we don't see each other at all. I am the king of the campus, teaching some students for undergrad and then later as grad students. So its an easy life.

I do agree: 100k can easily be pissed away so Im leaning towards the money option.

Post: #9

(04-08-2015 10:21 AM)southamerica Wrote:  With $100 liquid, you can start almost any type of venture you can think of. Hell, you could even partner up with a Chinese guy and open an English school in China.

I second Suit's post.

Edit: I would pick option 2.

I see what you are saying but since I've been in my city for a long time I already have more tutoring than I know what to do with. I teach at 250yuan an hour, which is 40+ dollars an hour cash. Its easy and requires little or no preparation. Better than opening a school I feel. Its like having a school, but without ALL the BS.

Post: #10

(04-09-2015 11:42 PM)Fast Eddie Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 09:33 AM)ball dont lie Wrote:  I already have 100kUSD liquid and more in mutual funds and have been saving hard for the last 5 years. I paid off all my loans and am debt free, but I really wanted to save 200-300k and retire with some rentals and maybe a part time job for fun (work at a rock climbing gym or a board game store).

I turn 34 this summer so I feel as though Im getting older and will soon be out of the "younger guy" period of my life, making getting laid by younger girls much harder. So I do worry about that. I look very young for my age though.....

.....
My main question is: I don't have any marketable skills other than teaching English in China and speaking Chinese very well. Should I make sure to make money or just have fun? I'm very risk averse so the money seems like a good idea, but also it is nice because I don't have to think about the future. I can wait another year to consider what I really want while the money stacks up.

Dude, I hate to say it, but you're having some unrealistic expectations here. You're planning to call it quits on your career in your mid 30s with best case scenario 300k? Even if you were 60+ that would be chump change, but you're 30s. But fine, let's say you're going for the minimalist lifestyle in some low cost of living locale that you will supplement with part time work.

Maybe that's doable in the sense that you won't starve to death, but you will be stagnating and unhappy. How long can a dude in the prime of life be satisfied with barely making ends meet and working a dead end part time job? I know people are different, but I personally couldn't imagine settling for that kind of existence.

This is the big question: I think I will be happy.

I live in a very small apartment. I'm at 10 years now. I go rock climbing at the local gym, have a squat rack and bench in my place and study Chinese in my free time. I think I could do that long term, but add social dancing, cooking and bike riding if I were somewhere more pleasant.

Its a good question to ask myself though and thanks for bringing it up. I often consider it but find myself thinking the opposite: Wouldn't it be great if I could spend my prime having fun and relaxing on the cheap instead of at an office or working overtime?

From 24-28 I lived in China working 10-14 hours a week, free apartment, studying Chinese and hanging out. Traveling during the winter and summer holidays, going to small towns. I loved it. If I create that kind of lifestyle permanently I think it would be fun. I have a lot of monk in me.

Post: #11

(04-10-2015 08:01 AM)ball dont lie Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 07:59 PM)Suits Wrote:  I thought a little more on this and have some suggestions.

If you've got $100K liquid, you've got enough to fulfill the start-up cash requirements of a WFOE corporation in China in virtually any industry.

On the other hand, $100K is not that much money. A few screw-ups and you could blow through that pretty fast.

Hey thanks for the suggestions Suits.

The thing is, I hate dealing with Chinese people within a business framework: they are dishonest, lack confidence and so they get pissy and worst of all they are vindictive.

I agree. These people are horrible human beings and if I was to go into business here in China, I would do it without them to the best of my ability

Quote:I have friends here in my city that work for BMW and parts suppliers for BMW/Brilliance Auto. The shit they complain about is absurd and I would kill someone. I make more money teaching English except for the real engineers at BMW than all the other people working here doing real jobs: ie accountants, controllers, human resources.

Other guys I know here have opened restaurants and they work LONG hours. From what I see they are not making money.

I'm not much of a business person. I like to teach because I get some good discussions going, I help young people and I live in a beautiful university campus instead of a loud, crowded urban area. Its peach blossom season on campus now and its pleasant. I walk around between classes and sit on park benches, seems better than business to me. But that's a personal feeling, everyone is different.

Usually I talk to my superiors twice a year: I get my schedule and I turn in my scores. Sometimes those are done by email and then we don't see each other at all. I am the king of the campus, teaching some students for undergrad and then later as grad students. So its an easy life.

I do agree: 100k can easily be pissed away so Im leaning towards the money option.

I understand, because this is the life I live. Except, I squeeze in as many hours as possible each week (34+) because I'm 28 and just starting out my post-university life and have far more debt that savings (thanks to school). I hope to be where you are at by 34, if not a little earlier.

I'm already in the process of developing some "fly-below-the-radar" business plans that I could run in China for a profit.

No interest in starting a restaurant for me. It's a risky business with tons of red tape.

The real money is in stuff with where you invest your knowledge regarding a niche. Not where you invest tons of money with no guarantees.

I wouldn't suggest investing any money into a Chinese business, but I'd investigate some foreign run business that are intelligently run, with minimal fixed costs.

I just met a American guy the other day who has a smart operations that is looking for investors. There are people on the other end of the spectrum who have a winning idea, but lack that cash, who would live to meet you.

I'm always a PM away, if you want to take specifics more privately.

Post: #12

So, what did you end up doing?

I'm in a similar situation right now..
There's barely any difference in the money, but it's different aspects of the field.
One company owns airplanes, while the other makes them.

Post: #13

(04-08-2015 09:33 AM)ball dont lie Wrote:  I already have 100kUSD liquid and more in mutual funds and have been saving hard for the last 5 years. I paid off all my loans and am debt free, but I really wanted to save 200-300k and retire with some rentals and maybe a part time job for fun (work at a rock climbing gym or a board game store).

You can't retire on $300K.

The standard formula is you need 25X your annual expenses to retire (based on the 4% draw rule). Some people would argue that you need more than 25X because the rule is based on historical stock market returns which are not guaranteed going forward.

You can argue that you can invest in rentals and beat the stock market, so you don't need 25X, but if it was that simple everybody would be doing it. When it comes to the trade-off between risk and return, there is no free lunch.

300K/25 = 12K per year or 1K per month. This is before tax (though taxes are low on this kind of income, at least in the US).

While you can survive or even live pretty well on 1K/month in many parts of the world, there are many risks involved. For example, the dollar may lose value, you may get sick and need expensive surgery, the market may crash, etc. etc.

But, like other posters have mentioned, even 100K gives you enough breathing space to start something on your own.

The option you should choose depends on your personal strengths and weaknesses. I you are better at working for someone else, then choose the higher paying job. If you are good at entrepreneurship and side hustles, either choose option 2 or start your own business.