Post: #1

I'm sure most of you have heard how not everyone is made to be a player.

We get past the beginner stages and we start to realize the fickle and conditional nature of attraction. We learn more about the nature of women. We learn is that there is no 'The One'.

Moreover, some guys just cannot get past some of these truths. I don't even know if they fully ingest the red pill or not, but they regress at least partially to what they used to be before involvement with the game.

A guy that had been dumped by his girl or one upset at all his shortcomings and lack of experiences is usually how he would learn about game. He will approach girls, during the day and/or at night. He will get some dates, and eventually a pull or two.

Most of them however will find a girlfriend and stick to her like super glue. They will ditch game although they will tell themselves the 6 months or year they put into it was worth it, because they do better in a relationship now.

That is what they tell themselves.

I find this happening more often with younger guys. I've seen this happen more than a few times in person, with friends that have casually entered the game and bowed out of it in no time.

Now I understand, not everyone is made to be a player.

I think to be a player means to play the field with a multitude of women (usually, but not necessarily) and resist settling down with one. Why do so when you have so many options?

Well, some guys are more relationship oriented and prefer to take it one girl at a time. Forget the average, blue pill guys. I'm talking about the guys with awareness of game.

But still, to an extent you need to play the field and build some experience.

Enter the rise of the mini relationship, something I have no problems with and I recommend from time to time to guys that are younger than me. Guys just entering their 20's should in no way be 100% committing to a girl for a serious relationship. But I digress.

Quick Case Study

Man A enters the game with some success after getting his feet wet. Though less than a year since he started going out to meet girls, he finds the best girl so far and goes all in with his chips to date her seriously. Some good and bad times later, they break up and he is back where he started. Now he repeats the same thing, gets back into the game, then 6 months later starts another relationship. This will repeat until he gets married, mid to late 20's.

Man B will play the field extensively in his early 20's. No serious relationships whatsoever. A few mini-relationships, but nothing more than a few sweet memories. Sleeps with many women over a few years until he realizes his desire for quality is far higher now than it has been for quantity. So now he is more selective, and will still play the field from time to time, but what he is looking for is just one girl to have around, whether it be more serious or something casual.

Man B has the option to date seriously if he wants to. Man A, is almost forced to because he hasn't endured the hardships (along with that pleasures and freedom) of the single dating market.

Both of these are examples of guys I know in person. Man B is in his mid 20's and does not have an accurate count of women he has banged since his late teens. Told me it's between 40-50 (numbers are more subjective, but I think it should be a golden rule not to start any serious relationship until you've at least been with 10 girls). Nowadays, he says although the occasional slut is nice, he rather spend time with one girl that maybe he will later deem to be serious relationship material.

We were at the club having this conversation when he tells me the following:

Quote: The thing is man, I'm looking for the better girls.. These girls around us are mostly not worth my time anymore. Although I can't have all of them if I wanted to, I believe that I can, because I've had more than my share of experiences with them. There comes a time when quality will do more for you than quantity ever will.

With that, he approached a lone girl 3 meters away, seemingly waiting for a friend. Stunning body, with an annoyed expression on her face. Not the ideal girl to approach.

But his vibe, it was excellent; calibrated. He pulled in her by the hand not giving her a chance to hesitate, and before she could say a word he spun her to the music and led her quickly through a few moves. I could tell she was completely struck by his presence and couldn't take her hands off him after only a minute, even when he ended the dance. They chatted for a bit but he left her as we went outside to meet our other buddies to call it a night. The girl even followed him, he chatted for a bit to be a polite, he might have taken her number I'm not so sure.

Not everyone is made to be a player. But you have to be one to build experience. To learn the ropes. To build your subconscious frame to deal with women.

And above all, never forget you still need to game. It never ends. At all times you will have to perform.

The biggest mistake by Man A is thinking a relationship is an opportunity to avoid performance.

Also, notice how I bolded what my buddy said in quotes. I believe that I can. Men are programmed to be confident, it's wired in our testosterone, but confidence must be worked on. Man A looks at a beautiful girl and thinks what a pleasure it would be to spend time with her. Man B, looks at the same girl and thinks:

Hell, this one might be worth a go.

Clearly you can see which man believes HE is the prize.

***
Some food for thought. These ideas have been on my mind recently and I wanted to get them onto paper.

Post: #2

One thing to realize is that men who "play the field" are actually a minority. Your hypothetical Man A story is the status quo. Your average man tends to be a serial monogamist who will go from girlfriend-to-girlfriend throughout his life and maybe have a few flings here and there in between. Based on my own experience, I've observed that most men I've met typically aren't with more than 10 women throughout their lifetime - many are with less than 10.

Using myself as an example, I would say I fall into your archetypal Man A story as well. I am no "player." I have always been a serial monogamist in my teenaged to young adult life. After growing increasingly callused, bitter, and jaded by LTR's going south after they run their course and leaving me lonely, heartbroken and betrayed, I found this community and began to adopt some philosophies into my life to make me feel better about myself and build a (artificial?) buffer between my emotions and my relationships with women. I spent some time meeting girls, working on game, and just banging random sluts. Have had my share of ONS's and SNL's and all the other buzzwords and acronyms over the past couple years, but ultimately I'd still prefer to have a long-term regular partner to have around, do fun relationship-y things with, and get reliable pussy. The only difference after learning game is that I regard the long-term partner desire as more of a pipe dream now and make sure to keep my psyche in check and not bank on it, look forward to it, or worry about it. I keep women at arm's length, for better or worse, and am far more guarded and emotionally callous.

Post: #3

It would behoove all men to come to the awareness that you still need a player's foundation, whether or not you will be a player for your entire life or just a small part of it.

And it's not like you can't alternate between phases.

The problem lies where you entirely reject this opportunity which will allow growth and increase your understanding and competence when relating to women, for the comfort and stability of primarily monogamist relationships.

Post: #4

I think there's a big difference between a "player" and
a guy who has gained experience with women and
pursues relationships until he finds one that he's happy with.

There's nothing wrong with playing the field, dating multiple girls
etc...however you're not necessarily going learn what it takes
to make a relationship last.

On the other hand, if you only have a few long relationships
(with nothing in between), you might settle down too soon
and not really find the best girl for you.

I say be aggressive and go after girls like a player
however also have the emotional depth and maturity to
find a great girl and a great relationship.

Post: #5

I have been in a long term relationship for awhile now, but I still prowl for other pussy on the side. I will admit that having a long term relationship has made me forgo certain pussy, but it has also made me calibrate myself to pursue more quality side pussy in turn. The woman I am with is very traditional and feminine, and very supportive of my lifestyle endeavours (she has no idea about the side pussy), and so It makes sense. I enjoy the stability, and I know some gentlemen frown upon this, but I like being able to go home to a home cooked meal, and having a woman whom I share certain experiences with intimately and intellectually. I like having a woman who takes care of our home and is constantly excited with it's upkeep. So, of course, you could argue "oneitis" but I never lost my "player," and I still advocate for seeking as many interesting sexual experiences, I just also have gotten my cake and am able to eat it.

Post: #6

The game is hard. Attrition rate is astronomically high. Lots of guys go into game and quit as soon as they realize how hard it actually is. Or try locking down the first 7 they see.

However, I would not consider these guys as having game. They might not be the dumbest of the crowd, but thats far from having game.

Once you have game and has seen enough, you realize that relationships are not meant to last. At least, not in the sense that your girl will be faithful to you while still giving you a certain degree of freedom. And a lot of the time, they are not meant to last because you yourself want to game on the side.

That and you see the fickle, feeble nature of women. They can be pleasant to be around, but eventually they are all replaceable. You will go through phases when you consider one girl more special than all the others, but eventually you will leave her or vice versa without even a backward glance.

If there’s one constant in girls, it is change. They say they love you the night, hate you the morning and why you dont call them three days after. They might worship you while you are still together but once the rosy glass is shattered they can be more vicious than an attack dog.

They are hypergamous. No matter how well you lock her down, a game-aware man knows that all it takes is for a random guy to show up at the right place at the right time, and for you to say the wrong thing at the wrong place wrong time, for her to jump on another cock and ride it like there’s no tomorrow.

Game has never allowed us to control the outcome. They just make us outcome independent, and that coincides with better results.

How can a true redpill man ever settle down knowing all that facts ?

But most men settle. Some have seen the truth but would rather bear it than fight it. Thats how slavery worked.

Some are weak. They get old, vulnerable, or gamed by women. Fucking hypocrite Mark Minter.

And some eventually just get tired. They put in the work but eventually realize the payoffs are not worth it. We try to tell people to keep going on this forum, but for everyone who made it like Gio (he’s like the slumdog billionaire version of game) there are thousands who will just not make it. Those who want to stay in the game fight everyday to not give in.

Post: #7

Great observations. This can really be generalized to the whole alpha-beta dichotomy that a lot of guys get stuck on.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that no man on this forum is as alpha as Genghis Khan was. Most of us are not even capable of being as alpha as he was. We're all beta compared to him. Yet some guys draw this black and white distinction where every guy who does X is beta and every guy who doesn't is alpha.

I have a daughter and I've changed a diaper before. To many men, that's beta. But it's just not in me to not help out with that type of stuff. When my wife is cooking dinner and my daughter craps her diaper, I have three choices. I can take over the cooking and have my wife change the diaper. To many men, that's beta. I can change the diaper myself. To many men, that's beta. Or finally, I can do nothing and either let my dinner burn or my daughter sit uncomfortably in her own shit. That's the alpha asshole option and it's just not in me. So I do the beta thing. However, the next week I'm on a business trip sodomizing some little slut in my hotel room while my hot wife is back home with our baby. Most men would call that alpha.

Game is all about self-improvement and not being afraid to just be who you are. Not the pussy that this feminized society wants you to be, but the man who your biology wants you to be. For a lot of men, learning game is just learning to let go of the fear of being the man their instincts are telling them to be.

Post: #8

This post made me think a bit. What it seems to come down is:

What is the end game?

If you asked me last year, I would've said: Get a young, good enough chick, knock her up, don't get married, etc. Stay cognisant of game concepts.

Now, I don't know. I don't know if I have an end game at all. Maybe it's just riding out my 30s banging sluts and all until I really peak out and I feel my SMV start to crash (unless I become famous, which I'm not relying on). Suddenly the idea of just chasing pussy is having less and less of a pull, and girls less of a meaning, other than short romances. This means I need to actually find a girl worth working on, besides game, to make life worth it. Otherwise, it's just banging sluts until I die. I used to think that there were enough girls compatible with me that I would find one "good enough" to have some kids with, but after running through about 10 girls in a year I am having doubts.

Am I a player? I don't know, and I'm not going to worry about it. I'd rather find something good to spend time on other than sluts. Some people may call me a player, other people on this forum would likely say that my game is just a tick above the average. I'm fine either way, because I'd rather find meaning in something else. Banging sluts is certainly a need every now and then, but it needs to be a side dish to my main goals in life.

Post: #9

I know Alpha/beta might get all the attention these days
however those words are just too generic for me to describe a way
of living.

Sometimes you have to be strong and stand your ground
and other times you have to be compassionate or patient
or willing to try someone else's idea.

You've got to be socially smart and understand how to work with
people...especially girls...

Post: #10

I just posted in this thread an old Heartiste theory about how our current sexual marketplace is creating players from men who would otherwise never gravitate to the lifestyle:

Quote:Let’s take a generic scenario. Imagine you’re given some task — what it is exactly isn’t important. You’re told to go about this task in a certain way and not to deviate from it; you’re assured that you will achieve results if you do as you are told. And it’s not just a supervisor telling you this: it’s the books you read, the movies you watch, and in fact is the general view of society that the task should be performed in this one way.

You attempt to perform this task in this way, but you’re not having much success. You occasionally succeed, but it’s far from frequent, and you can never ascertain what made it work one time and not work the next. You’re basically in the dark, but you don’t question the method you’re using, because everything you’ve learned is telling you to do it that way.

Then a guy comes up next to you to do the same task. But here’s the thing: he’s doing it a different way. He’s disregarding the received wisdom on how to perform the task, and guess what? He’s getting much better results than you, and when he fails, he’s able to identify why and correct the mistake in the future. Sure, his method isn’t foolproof, but it has a vastly higher success rate than yours.

Now, if you were in this situation, what would you do? Would you continue to use your method? Or would you observe what the successful guy is doing and adapt your approach so that it’s more like his? If you’re smart, you’d adapt, right?

Now, here’s how to apply this example to the subject at hand:

Task = Attracting women

Traditional method = The strategies for attracting women that are generally accepted: Niceness, flattery, loyalty, acquiescence to her desires, and downplaying sexuality

New method = Pickup strategies: Disinterest, teasing, pursuit of your own desires, and being unashamed of sexuality

Does it make sense now why men use pickup strategies? To put it more simply, men employ these tactics and attitudes because they attract more women more consistently than the traditional methods. It’s a simple matter of efficiency.

I think we're seeing a lot of men today who don't genuinely want to be players, but realize they have to dip their toes into the game in order to get what they want. It works at first, but their mistakes come later, when they try to swim the length of the pool without ever having done more than fuck around in the shallow end.

Post: #11

I agree with the OP. I just wanted the normal boring girlfriend thing.

Post: #12

Recently I've been finding it to be a constant struggle. Alternating between being a player, and just a normal guy, albeit one with a sense of game.

I don't mind it. It's good to know I have a tried-and-true skill set (and mindset) to fall back on in case I'm unhappy with a situation.

I've found that the worst case scenario in any circumstance is that you start from scratch with new girls. You have nothing to lose by doing this. Sometimes it's beneficial, other times necessary. And you always learn some valuable lessons along the way. Also; maybe not immediately, but you will soon find a better girl than the last one that really intrigued you. As long as you put in the work, by approaching and following through.

Post: #13

^ I think this struggle really is that for guys that want to be normal they obviously want an LTR at some point.

If you have never been a player you are ready to settle more easily, which ends in disaster much of the time (a fat unappreciative wife is considered a save). As you act like a player you find out how hard it is to find a girl worth settling with because you know all the signs.
If you get with a girl like that then it falls apart for whatever reason... it will be awhile often times before you find the next one.

Only problem is the time between unicorn A and unicorn B you usually improve your game a bit, plus you get older and put up with less bullshit, which makes unicorn B even harder to find because your standards have risen even if you aren't aware.... and so on.

Post: #14

Way too often, on this forum and in the manosphere in general, game is tied to amount of women you sleep with. I don't think that's game. I mean, if you banged a 5.5 off tinder after talking to her for 3 days and you think that's game - enjoy I guess.

Game to me is having a quality girl on lock. Very few men in my experience have actually had that.

When you can get an 8 or 9 girl to act like a friend zoned beta male, then you have game.

This notion of notches = player status, I'm not buying that. Anyone can get some easy lays if they try hard enough. If we're basing game on how often we get laid as opposed to how our girlfriends and wives behave as a result of our frame, I don't know. I don't think I agree with that. This shit goes much deeper than pussy. Much deeper.

Post: #15

I don't see game that way. I see it as it is, just a game. Game is not tied to the amount of girls you bang, but the amount of girls you bang is tied to game.
Have fun with it, and when girls see you having fun, they want in on that.
Since girls are different, and yet all the same, makes the game fun for me. Heck, sometimes I want the game on hard mode, so I'll see what's the most fucked up shit I can say to a girl, and yet still bang her. Or, what kind of fucked up dating profile I can make, and still get action from it.

If I got married when I was younger, I would probably be divorced by now. Fortunately experiencing many different types of girls, shows all the same bullshit to watch out for. That kind of knowledge you can't get in the beginning, and yet is needed for the journey. If I ever get married, at least I have tools for the occasion.

Don't take it serious, because it's a game, and games are meant to be fun. Pussy loves fun.

edit, Met up with a girl at a bar, then started quoting stormfront, she drove me to her place. Made an okcupid profile for a necrophiliac, got 2 FWBs from it. So really, just have fun with it, what is there to lose?

Post: #16

I have trouble gravitating from being a 'player' into being the beta-male-provider-type simply because of the lack of quality in the US for a long-term relationship.

I'm currently seeing a Colombian, a Thai, a Mexican, and a German - in the US.

The day I can find someone that's not on a visa that is worth dating long-term I'll consider it. Sure, I enjoy spending time with these women I'm currently seeing, but I'm not about to move to Bangkok for a long-term relationship and all of them plan on leaving the country eventually. I have issues dating someone that is on a visa that wants to stay in the US permanently, particularly if they're students.

Do I need to buy a suburban house and have kids to conform with societal norms? Maybe. I have family that are all tied down to mediocre women and nights of Netflix and microwave meals, and they have settled for a life of supreme mediocrity. I prefer to make good money and travel around the world banging feminine women instead. Plus I can just bang the useless American women as well, even if they're married.

I think that most people that aren't interested in being 'players' or even just single bachelors are the ones that are worried. They worry that if they aren't in a relationship that they will always be sleeping alone, watching TV alone, going out alone, and most importantly beating off in their room to porn - alone. This isn't always true, but I do think that the majority of younger folks in relationships are in this situation.

Post: #17

The game can be a grind for some.
I know I've gone through phases where I'm constantly chasing pussy.
Many times to my own detriment.
Ive made myself have a better looking body, improved my looks and done may things in order to make picking up girls easier...

Now i try not to hunt girls anymore. My main girl is LTR material, but the urge for new pussy never goes away i just keep it under control and opportunistically get new notches.

A few times a year I'll go into a frenzy and spend 2 or 3 weeks solid lining up girls to fuck.
Other than that i'm loyal to my gf.

Not everyone is cut out to be a player, most will never understand the grind that is being a player. Just like how going to the gym at 5am isn't for everyone either.

Post: #18

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

As always, the risk of burning out is high and the big leagues are full of competition but that's what it's a about.

Go big or go home. Fuck being average.

In the mean time I'll check out zillow and cookie cutter suburbian homes. Bit really, this shot gets tiring after a whole and we all need some rest

Post: #19

What % of the U.S. male population is player or trying to become a player?

Post: #20

(04-03-2015 10:55 AM)RexImperator Wrote:  I agree with the OP. I just wanted the normal boring girlfriend thing.

Same here. Even after completely swallowing the red pill I remain a serial monogamist. I just keep in mind that:
- I need to be firmly in charge of the relationship and hold a strong frame at all times.
- I can never fully trust her.
- I cannot marry her, knock her up, or have financial ties with her.
- The relationship will not last forever.
I simply do not have the sex drive, energy or time to be approaching or gaming all the time.

(08-08-2015 11:49 PM)Mister X Wrote:  Way too often, on this forum and in the manosphere in general, game is tied to amount of women you sleep with. I don't think that's game. I mean, if you banged a 5.5 off tinder after talking to her for 3 days and you think that's game - enjoy I guess.

Game to me is having a quality girl on lock. Very few men in my experience have actually had that.

When you can get an 8 or 9 girl to act like a friend zoned beta male, then you have game.

This notion of notches = player status, I'm not buying that. Anyone can get some easy lays if they try hard enough. If we're basing game on how often we get laid as opposed to how our girlfriends and wives behave as a result of our frame, I don't know. I don't think I agree with that. This shit goes much deeper than pussy. Much deeper.

Completely agree. I've witnessed it many times in the hookup scene at uni. There are guys that fuck a fat pig every week and they think of themselves as massive studs. However, when they make a move on an attractive girl, they are rejected immediately.

If you target girls that are firmly below your own smv, you don't need a lot of game.
Game is when you can attract and keep girls that could easily be with guys that are better looking, have more money and higher status than you. It is when you can lock down a quality girl and make her completely loyal to you.
I'm not implying that I have that kind of game btw - I only have a little bit of it, but that is already far more than most blue pillers out there.

Post: #21

I bet some other countries like DR and Brazil when they read our forums just laugh at what we considered a player to aspire to is just their average oaf.

Post: #22

I think having kids and passing on your genes is pretty important. Literally every one of my ancestors all the way back to amoeba have done it.

Some of us love hook up culture. Some of us hate it. Either way, it's going to be replaced by a culture with a sustainable birthrate.

Post: #23

(08-10-2015 01:04 AM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Basically just this. The System creates the players, the sluts, the losers, and the cat ladies, and no individual man can change the system. Play the game or take the plane.

Post: #24

Lately I've been thinking a lot about this.

Not everyone can be a player (and thankfully so) because doing so still requires a certain degree of coldheartedness.

Its all very easy for us in the beginning when we are mostly dealing with whores/sluts and flaky girls to be very goal oriented without emotion involved. "She's just one of those fucked up girl, I couldnt care less if she trips and falls down the sewers"

But eventually down the road, once you've got good enough, your quality increases exponentially. Enventually you found a girl that ticks all the boxes you need (beautiful, feminine, caring, well-raised, devoted to you) and you lock her down.

Everything is great and rosy, until you decided that for one reason or another, you gotta go. And she has done nothing wrong to you, it has absolutely none of her fault. In fact she has done all she can and more to keep you around.

Can you truly walk away from that without feeling a tingle of pain?

A player doesn't care. He sneaks out of the bedroom before the girl wakes up. He goes ghost on his LTR all of a sudden. He just keeps going with that nonchalant aura because the game is everything to him, not the women.

I cant do that yet. I cant just leave a good girl knowing that it will certainly break her heart. Im disgusted enough with all the damaged women in the world, I dont need to add one more of my own making to that pool.

And thats not just LTR. I found out Im just not the type who can go ghost on a girl who has been treating me well.

Of course, we will tell ourselves "she might just be good to you now, but wait until xyz and she will show your claws to you" and that might just be true, and it helps you keep going without looking back.

But most of the time you just dont know. What you do know is that you left her worse than when you found her.

I guess its just another roadmark in the Path of the player, and this too we will cross eventually.

Post: #25

^
Do women think this way (leave a man better than I found him)? Maybe some, probably not most. Girls want to have fun, get fucked well, and absorb the vibe off of interesting men.