Post: #1

I'm haven't gotten far into conversation with the first 200 . Conversation runs out pretty quickly (most ended within 30 minutes max), awkward silence kills it fast. Around 15 numbers, 2 makeouts, nothing else. No dates. Attraction was rarely there, they gave numbers out just because I asked, none responded.

Tried tinder, 4 cute matches for maybe 2000 swipes? 1 of them responded but won't give me her number. I'm getting played by 18 year olds.. wtf.

Don't know exactly what I'm doing wrong? maybe wrong vibes, desperate? maybe giving too much interest? I really want a girl. I would trade almost anything for it now.

Post: #2

In the US? Europe? Asia? South America?
Speak the language?
Day game, night game?

Age of the targets
Your age?

What's your opener?
How do you transition?
How much talking are you doing?
How much are they doing?

Are you keeping a journal?

You haven't given us much information to work with.

You might be a 70 year old in Saudi Arabia speaking English to chicks in Hijabs,
or a 15 year old in South Carolina trying to spit game to College chicks?

All the while improvising your whole spiel and never taking any notice of their reactions to you.

WIA

Post: #3

USA - Southern college town
Speak the language - yes, no accent, but minority
Day game, night game - Both

Age of the targets - 18-23
Your age - college 21+
Also skinny so gym regularly, but diet is the problem.

What's your opener?
If I freeze up i just go direct and tell them they're cute and ask how their day is going. Otherwise situational. Night time it's - "hey" or situational or slight neg

How do you transition?
I typically don't get that far, or the girl transitions for me.

How much talking are you doing? 50%
When i run out of things to say I end up reverting to asking the boring questions, where you from, what are you doing when I run out of things to say.

How much are they doing? 50% until they get bored which happens often

Are you keeping a journal?
Yup, I keep a journal.

I'm a more serious/boring/intelligent personality which works on older girls, but idk how to change that into a "brings-the-fun" vibe for college. I get the point that college girls just want to be excited, nothing serious or like an intelligent conversation.

My friends have the party vibe get laid regularly. Continuing the conversation (an exciting one) right now is the major roadblock

Post: #4

Well it sounds like you know what you're doing wrong.
Also sounds like you know the solution.

WIA

(02-13-2015 11:42 AM)Blackliter Wrote:  USA - Southern college town
Speak the language - yes, no accent, but minority
Day game, night game - Both

Age of the targets - 18-23
Your age - college 21+
Also skinny so gym regularly, but diet is the problem.

What's your opener?
If I freeze up i just go direct and tell them they're cute and ask how their day is going. Otherwise situational. Night time it's - "hey" or situational or slight neg

How do you transition?
I typically don't get that far, or the girl transitions for me.

How much talking are you doing? 50%
When i run out of things to say I end up reverting to asking the boring questions, where you from, what are you doing when I run out of things to say.

How much are they doing? 50% until they get bored which happens often

Are you keeping a journal?
Yup, I keep a journal.

I'm a more serious/boring/intelligent personality which works on older girls, but idk how to change that into a "brings-the-fun" vibe for college. I get the point that college girls just want to be excited, nothing serious or like an intelligent conversation.

My friends have the party vibe get laid regularly. Continuing the conversation (an exciting one) right now is the major roadblock

Post: #5

(02-13-2015 12:53 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Well it sounds like you know what you're doing wrong.
Also sounds like you know the solution.

WIA

well to be honest, struggling on the solution end.

Post: #6

Make general statements about a girl instead of asking questions, and then tease her a little bit about her answers and try to relate. Works well to keep a conversation going.

Try and keep it a general rule to make two statements for every question you ask. Obviously you won't be counting in your interactions but it's a good rule of thumb.

Post: #7

Have some talking points on 3-4 fallback topics. Get a lot of practice using your talking points in order to get your conversation chops. Even imagine conversations in your head about these topics and how the conversations might go and what you could say.

When your real conversations flop, afterwords think about how you could have salvaged the conversation.

Incorporate a lot of open ended questions around your talking points. Answer them yourself too ( this is called "making statements").

Post: #8

(02-13-2015 02:22 PM)Blackliter Wrote:  well to be honest, struggling on the solution end.

"My friends have the party vibe get laid regularly"

Model your friends.

WIA

Post: #9

OP, I feel like I somewhat know you from our PMS. I went ahead and read all of your threads and reread our pms in an effort to help you. Also, PM me your reply if you have to write anything personal

First of all you've got one thing most guys don't and something I certainly don't: balls.

I would have called it quits with those numbers and probably went gay (semi srs)

Game can be summarized as social skills. From our PMs and from what I've read you've got good social skills EX four hour insta date with girl.

Getting your game on the level of the gods or being ripped like a viking will help but how much of a difference does it really make? Everything you're being told to do here and in other places is to help you boost your value because if you aren't appealing facial wise you need to be able to fulfill some sort of need (money,support,social status). I know guys here know couples where the guy is a complete loser and is fucking some HBB but is she faithful to him? Fuck no and he most likely has a huge dick I'm srs

I went through a hot streak and have had a lot of doors open for me when I took out my facial piercings. I was limiting myself to a niche group beforehand and I even wrote about my experience. If you read my before posts and after, you can see the difference cleaning up my image has made. I also got a tan so I look darker which has also helped. I recommend you do the same if this applies to you, especially the tan. In the states the darker the better in my opinion.

Perhaps you'd do better with a wing man? I'd game with you but I don't think we're in the same state. Try talking to girls who show you tons of interest. You know the ones where as soon as you ask or say something no matter how stupid, they'll reply with that retarded looking smile.

I don't think you have a game problem, I think you're gaming the wrong type of women.

You say your friends are getting laid every week so why not have them introduce you to some sloots so you can get instant social status?

just act sociable and talk to different girls.

Let me know if you just want to continue from PMs

I'm just trying to piece together why you aren't getting laid. 0 bangs from 180+ approaches, there has to be something else or maybe you aren't mentioning it?

to summarize: Try approaching different types of women and just be sociable.

EDIT:If I did an approach and recorded it (voice only) would that help you or no? I don't have the best game but if it helps I'll do it

Post: #10

(02-13-2015 11:42 AM)Blackliter Wrote:  How do you transition?
I typically don't get that far, or the girl transitions for me.

So it sounds like they're digging you if they're helping out with the conversation

(02-13-2015 11:42 AM)Blackliter Wrote:  How much talking are you doing? 50%
When i run out of things to say I end up reverting to asking the boring questions, where you from, what are you doing when I run out of things to say.

This is where you can
- use someone else's canned routines and jokes
- learn to use your own memories and experiences as canned routines and jokes (which means have a good understanding of why canned lines work)

- ask open ended questions that push the conversation in the direct you want it to go
- make bold statements about the girl/girls and watch their hamsters spin as they defend themselves

Cheeky, flirty, cocky, fun-loving, mischievous.

And when you're flailing, rather than flame out, you should go for the buying question.

yammer
yammer
yammer
You're kinda cool, I got shit to do, lemme get your #

(02-13-2015 11:42 AM)Blackliter Wrote:  How much are they doing? 50% until they get bored which happens often

Are you keeping a journal?
Yup, I keep a journal.

I'm a more serious/boring/intelligent personality which works on older girls, but idk how to change that into a "brings-the-fun" vibe for college. I get the point that college girls just want to be excited, nothing serious or like an intelligent conversation.

My friends have the party vibe get laid regularly. Continuing the conversation (an exciting one) right now is the major roadblock

I think you should model your friends, but if they aren't actually like you, it's pointless.

If these chicks opening but the set fails later, it's usually because
- you lack direction, once you have them talking you don't know what to do. I don't see you talking about screening, compliance, logistics, or any of the things you need to uncover when you chat a chick up.

also

- you probably aren't escalating the encounter

At a night club/bar, you're supposed to twirl her around, get a shot, isolate her, go dancing, etc. During the day, you should make her accompany you shopping, or some other instadate. (coffee, playground, whatever you have handy)

If you're just yakking for 30 minutes, you were interesting...and then you became boring.

These chicks are NEVER going to make it easy for you.


WIA

Post: #11

Money. Thanks WIA, McCoy, Dusty, Lib. Action time.

3 approaches tonight at the house party. 1 Had a fiance, and 2 were lesbians ahahaha. Fiance was hot and giving me looks. I kept the party vibe pretty well but then again my boy was hosting. Harder for me to keep vibe in frat scene.

Openers used "Where's your drink? Come on" & "hey you look like you're up to mischief", "hey" Chatted up the guys too to keep it social

Post: #12

One of the forum members has a signature line that says "Game is really just trolling women". I tie this in with another piece of advice I've seen. You should treat women like you would treat a little girl. Tease her. Treat her like a brat.

If you're having trouble creating a fun vibe for the women you talk to, try to think of trolling them, or treat them like you would treat your buddy's 6 year old sister. Remember, you are aloof and outcome independent in any given interaction. You don't give a fuck what happens, so go with some trolling that feels a little ridiculous and over the top. The goal is to not be boring, and to get them turned on.

Say something that will give them a big eyed shocked look on their face. Talk about having to be careful or you're going to end up getting her pregnant. Play with it a few times, and get a feel for how it turns out, then refine your trolling technique as you gain experience.

Post: #13

Well I came very close haha. Been making out with a couple girls here and there. Almost closed the deal with 1 girl (7 italian), I rambled like a champ. Didn't even know I could talk for that long. I was dancing on her, said lets grab a drink, chatted at the bar, pulled her to another spot, then right as she said she was down and we were exiting the bar 5 of her friends stood by the exit and pulled her away.

1 of them said she wanted to kill me... huh? anyways I was unfazed chilled with my girl with 5 of her friends around. Kept moving her, but her friends were around me, yelling at me. The girl I was with was pissed with them, they were all uglier.. might have been jealous.

After 20 minutes of that, my girl gave up, we parted ways. I made out with her heavily multiple times and felt her up. just didn't know how to deal with such heavy cockblocks..

Post: #14

(02-13-2015 01:36 AM)Blackliter Wrote:  I really want a girl. I would trade almost anything for it now.

I'm a complete beginner but based on the fact that you're able to get makeouts (and not just phone numbers) you'll definitely achieve this. You have serious balls too doing that many approaches. I gotta be more like that

Post: #15

Blackliter, in the beginning your weren't even getting makeouts correct?

There's progress to be observed brother.

Post: #16

Your third One hundred? You are a beast, believe it or not. I have probably approached less than 100 women in my life. I mostly do online game. So you sort of inspire me in this regard.

I think you may have some issues beyond game that you have to address. I haven't read this entire thread or your other threads, but I see that when asked about fitness you've mentioned that diet is a problem. What exactly is your dietary problem? Are you not able to afford food enough to grow or is it something else?


I find that when I'm keeping my fitness in check I have more energy, more fun talking to women and I have a better vibe. Also, if you're not eating enough it might affect your cognitive abilities. This might explain why your conversations are hard fought. Since conversation is a weakness for you (as it has been for me) perhaps you should try and some some public speaking courses. They helped me out a lot in high school and college. I wish I had actually taken more classes like that at the time. They give you a certain slickness you can bring out when you're strapped for words.

Post: #17

Keep 3-4 well prepared scripts(of real events or just made up stories, it doesn't really matter) in mind, and then transition into one or the other based on the girl's replies. Have a story telling format, people universally love stories. Drop DHV baits or hooks in your stories that would make them ask questions and see you as a high value man. You can reverse engineer some of these stories based on what your targets generally find cool.

For ex:

"This bracelet that you're wearing reminds of a crazy incidence"

Oh yeah, what was it?

"Last year, when I was in Paris/South America/Africa I was stopped by the gypsy who would ask you to wear one and then would tell you about your past, present and future"

Wow, was she right?

....the bait has been dropped - your value as a high value man who has traveled and has had diverse experiences has been established. Now you just need to continue the story and make transitions into her asking you personal questions.

Also, never give straight answers when initially talking to a girl. If she asks you "where are you from?", always say "Guess". If she asks you "how do you know the party host?", tell her "we met on craigslist" or something equally unusual.


As a sidenote, you could also practice rambling and being very social and chatty, just talk to everyone you meet in real life - older folks, guys, fat chicks etc etc. It will teach you how to transition conversations. Read about the elderly opener which Roosh discovered when he was "gamed" into a conversation by this elderly dude.

Post: #18

Thanks for the advice guys, always appreciated. For fitness, I'm a vegetarian so getting the nutrients and protein is tough. I take multiple whey protein shakes and try to eat all the time. Main problem I have is I'm not able to eat a ton at 1 sitting, basically a shit ton of smaller meals which when you get busy with work/classes/plans diet goes out the door. I did hit new maxes on my squat, deadlift, but marginal.. like 145 squat, 100 bench (really bad) and 145 deadlift. I do the Starting strength program just to build sheer strength and size.

You're right I need more routines to factor into my conversations. I have 1 or 2 good ones but thats not enough. I've started becoming more chatty in general, took a LONG while to start that but now I look to make conversations anywhere.

So another slight problem, yesterday was probably the 20th time a girl has said "You're sooo nice". The girls my friends bang, all think i'm extremely nice. I rarely bring that edgy/alpha vibe. I'm trying to figure out how to change my base vibe right now. Like pyschologically changing my mindset. I know where it needs to be, just getting there is an issue..

Lastly, I get drunk wayy to quickly. Need to for sure cut the drinks, don't even like it, but just the college mentality to pound drinks is influencing me here. My friends can prob drink 3-4x times me and still be smooth. I'd be better 3-4 drinks max for night. not 10-15 including shots we've been doing. Again saying it, and actually practicing 2 different things haha.

Post: #19

Want to kill the nice vibe?

-Break eye contact with girls easily when talking to them - fake that your distracted or thinking about something else. Not looking down at your feet ever though. Only off into the distance or glancing at your surroundings like there could be something more interesting than her around you.

-Don't smile so easily at girls learn to smirk, have a harder stare (almost like you have a little bit of wild deep in your eyes) when talking to people. Nice guys tend to stare in a very soft way that completely shows the window to their soul which is overly sweet. Think a little bit angry in your head and your stare should get more serious.

-Speak slowly. When girls talk and make a statement or asking a question give a good pause before coming back with an answer. Don't be so eager to keep the conversation going. A long pause with a smirk and smiling eyes, then responding slowly is what gets you out of the nice game camp. It is your frame not hers.

This is pretty much acting a little douchey. Girls love it. If you spoke this way to a man he would hate you for being condescending and dismissive. Girls on the other hand love this in small to large doses depending on how fucked up they are, but all of them love it in at least mild doses.

Post: #20

I've hung out with Blackliter a few times here in NYC. Smart kid with a great future ahead of him.

I'd say ya gotta get bigger/stronger since you are a shorter dude like me. It'll help with the confidence plus girls your age are into looks/muscle. Right after you lift(and I'm assuming you are lifting hard and regularly), eat two bowls of a sugary cereal along with your protein shakes. Then eat another meal a few hours later with more protein and clean carbs(rice and sweet potato).

Pretty tough being a vegetarian and trying to get bigger.

Post: #21

Third 100 approaches !? that's impressive, you definitely are in the top 1% in therm of courage. Most men never do it in their life, and most of those who try abandon pretty quick. Respect for that !

Post: #22

got new maxes for lifts. when I saw max, I mean like full set, not 1 rep

Got another 12 approaches in over the last weeks. Last 4 were much better quality. I used Travesty's advice of breaking eye contact and smirking which helped. Gotta work on speaking slowly and loudly. Those long pauses and smirking are deadly.

Btw this might be a really dumb question, but I got setup by a mutual friend for semi blind date. Would you go with them on a group date for like tennis/vball 2v2 or go straight on a blind date and take her out for dinner? (she prob doesn't drink, and is on the innocent side & young). I'm thinking vball is less awkward, but itll take more work. I typically do a late drinks/appetizer thing which flows into getting her drunk, but can't do that here. any other ideas than dinner? no alcohol makes it tougher.

Post: #23

A great movie for nice guys to watch is The Place Beyond the Pines watch Gosling for the first 45 minutes of the movie when he interacts with the lead actress. It is great in showing how you can say more with body language than words. The pauses, smirking, speaking slowly and deeply, breaking eye contact, aloof relaxed body language, and smiling wild glimmering eyes are all here.

One big reason if you are not a natural like 99% of guys to make 1000s of approaches is to honestly, get a little bored with it.

Try looking in the mirror like you are looking at a girl, make your eyes a bit happy, but your brow a bit meaner... you need to channel a more masculine look. Krauser's in fields give a good view of this, he doesn't come off as a nice guy, he almost comes off a bit stern, but still polite and interested. His body language is solid and masculine. He is really stepping to the girl, not giving off any vibes that he is dependent on the outcome. He is stepping to the girl trying to find out what he needs to know, not hoping to please her.

The long pauses, smirking, breaking eye contact, good posture, yet aloof body language is telling the girl she isn't that special. You saw her and are curious, and are perfectly happy walking away if the interaction doesn't go to your liking.

Big open soul eyes, a constant smile, and hanging on her every word screams that this is a big opportunity you don't want to fuck up which is bad. She has to think this is a miniscule opportunity for you because you value yourself so much.

Beyond the long pauses, breaking eye contact, speaking deeper and much more slowly (record your voice on your phone at home, listen to yourself practicing a mock pick up you may cringe at what you really sound like).....

I talk about that wild glimmer deep in your eyes it is smiling with your eyes with a little mixture of amusement and unpredictability. It is how you show off amused mastery. Some guys have a high energy wild in their eyes, almost like you could become unhinged at a moments notice (Jack Nicholson, Christian Bale, Russel Brand, Brad Pitt (Fight Club, Snatch)) other guys have a low key one (Johnny Depp, Ryan Gosling), other guys have a more serious and somber tone in their eyes that is more old school (Steve McQueen, Sean Connery, George Clooney).

You need to choose what eyes fit you best. I am more of the unhinged wild eyes when talking to girls because I see it all as one big amusement dealing with and trying to weasel my way into banging them.

All sex symbols have a wild glimmer in their eyes. It is mandatory.

I'd say most other guys do better with a low key or serious in the eyes. I am kind of open to light emotional outbursts which most guys aren't.

All these eyes though project a sense of amused mastery and detachment from reality living in their own frame at all times.

Post: #24

St. Pattys day is amazing, 4 day approaches. pinched a couple people for not wearing green.
Also can someone answer my question about the date?

Travesty you're right. Eyes is a huge deal, smirking with that devilish stare without breaking eye contact makes them wilt. Though I'm trying to figure out which type I should use. I think the somber tone mostly works on older girls, whereas the unhinged one is for younger.. more excitement. oh and i watched place beyond the pines before, but rewatched some of the ryan gosling scenes. yup, he's got that glimmer, though not as pronounced as other actors. Russell Brand and Christian Bale just cut through girls

Post: #25

So fucking close.. talked with an 8 and her friend, then pulled the girl away. Made out with her, then was about to leave the venue her sober DD called her, and that was quickly cancelled. Stupidly, like the nice guy I helped her find her. (how should I have distracted her otherwise?) Btw 1st makeout I had dry lips, kinda killed it.. messed up the kiss. how do you fix that after having a couple drinks... its not like I have purse to carry lip balm...

She went back to her friends, and then another tall white guy came up.. i interceded for a bit again, but he won out because the girl preferred him (I did fuck up the kiss) . at that point i was like whatever, next. So we went to get food and in the line ran into a 6.5. talked to her, fended off 2 other guys!! hell ya! kept the fucking frame. made out with her and then i kept talking to her. bought her food, brought her over to table, talked with her. she sobered up but gave me her number and was like text me! text me!
The first girl ended up getting pulled away from the DD girl who hung out with my group ironically...

idk 2 makeouts, then 2 numbers. It's like theres a fucking curse on me not to get laid.