Post: #251

I just had a lively discussion about this with a Muslim girl I went to high school with. She is of two minds, being a proud Muslim but also being very westernized (which earned her the disdain of some of her coreligionists). This has bearing on the conversation that just occurred.

It started with her being mad that Murdoch expected her to apologize for Hebdo. I pointed out she makes her voice heard whenever something offends her as a Muslim, so her silence means this must not have. And I referenced this specifically to demonstrate the broader point.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/fe...rlie-hebdo
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/02/...-cartoons/
She conceded.

The conversation then turned to this subject, Rotherham, because I brought it up to explain to her why Islam in Europe is a different beast to the subject in the States. And it is the perfect example of the issue. Not just the actions of the uncontrolled migrants, but also the national policies which strangle the native populace. So make no mistake, the ire for the traitorous Whites who allowed this to happen is present.
Her first response was that we don't know if they are Muslims. Just that they are Pakistani.
This is true. There is a 1/10 chance they are not practicing Muslims based on the stats I found.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_th...background

The odds were not in her favor I explained. Moreover, what does that say about the criticisms that Islam cannot tolerate secular governance if her first response was that these rapists were presumably atheists? That being a major argument from people like Douglas Murray for example.
Interestingly it was a great moment of frame, just not with the interest of getting laid.
She had to fall back.

What I am getting at is that I see a parallel between this situation and this thread.
I agree with much of what Mikado has said, but I agree with Zelcorpion more.

Ultimately the conversation ended with something on my part that I do think bears repeating as a similar sentiment has been expressed already.
If you cannot use your Western right to free speech to condemn those who abuse your religion, then clearly it does not bother you that much if you also leap to the defense of other Muslims for being Muslim.

Now Mikado, I am not saying you're guilty of this like the girl in my example was. She is pretty political and prone to spewing platitudes about togetherness on facebook.
You're arguing your case on a forum that does involve your identity and you are wrapped up in the Front National seeing massive gains in support. Furthermore I don't know you aside from being Muslim, a rooshvforum member, and that you live in France. So I see your contributions as being very appropriate and insightful, unlike this old peer of mine's.

But I do think the underlying principle is valid for Muslims in general, and yea I realize I am telling them what they should think but I don't think I am being unreasonable.
At some point, remaining silent becomes a sin.

And, as has been said, Shia are pretty cool. Hezbollah is defending Christian towns from what I understand. There's a mutual thing there since it is to keep out ISIS. But they are still doing so.
In fact, learning what little I have about the Shia has reversed my position on Iran. I never had a strong position on Iran but I am fairly convinced that the USA opposes them out of a grudge and because Israel doesn't like them. Saudi Arabia is a lot more dangerous for example.

Also about Australia. I understand that Labor is going to get rid of the Howard government Points System. And that Abbot is so unpopular Labor will likely win for a while. At least until the treasury is bankrupted.
Unsurprisingly, the biggest donor to the Australian Labor Party is a Chinese billionaire. As the Chinese would probably benefit the most.
So ultimately this issue boils down to one constant: Europeans are not allowed to advocate for themselves as a group, but all other groups are. Especially to the exception of Europeans.
Islamists may be the loudest voice in the room right now, but they are not alone. Really it is the lopsided standards that are the problem, race just happens to be what those standards are applied to.

So maybe, a better way to protests this situation would be to vote against the parties that are actively against European identity. So voting against the Socialists in France or Labour in the UK/Australia.

Post: #252

Is Tony Abbott/Liberal Party really so unpopular that he is going to lose the next election? What is making him so unpopular? Fuck if that's true, then there is really no hope for Australia...

Post: #253

(02-11-2015 02:22 AM)GeroMeroHero Wrote:  Also about Australia. I understand that Labor is going to get rid of the Howard government Points System. And that Abbot is so unpopular Labor will likely win for a while. At least until the treasury is bankrupted.
Unsurprisingly, the biggest donor to the Australian Labor Party is a Chinese billionaire. As the Chinese would probably benefit the most.
So ultimately this issue boils down to one constant: Europeans are not allowed to advocate for themselves as a group, but all other groups are. Especially to the exception of Europeans.

You don't know what you're talking about. There is a bi-partisan consensus on the immigration system, and I'm pretty sure the points system was a Labor initiative under Hawke/Keating anyway. The Chinese would suffer the most from losing that system as well. Chinese billionaires donate heavily to both parties to protect their mining interests, it's not because of immigration. The ethnic groups that do exercise undue influence over the Labor Party are Italians and Greeks because of the number of local branches they control in core Labor seats.

(02-11-2015 02:47 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  Is Tony Abbott/Liberal Party really so unpopular that he is going to lose the next election? What is making him so unpopular? Fuck if that's true, then there is really no hope for Australia...

If you'd been paying attention to Australian politics in the last 12 months it wouldn't be a surprise. His budget was a clusterfuck, his management has been dysfunctional and autocratic, and his personal judgement has been called into question, plus he's never been personally popular at any point in his career. He's not going to lose the next election though, because more likely than not the Liberals will replace him with Malcolm Turnbull later this year. 40% of Liberal MP's voted to spill Abbott's leadership on Monday, including around two third's of his backbench.

I'm quite confident that Turnbull and maybe even Julie Bishop would be able to win the next election for the Liberals. Everyone hates Abbott and Hockey, but at the moment most people don't trust Labor to fix the budget. They haven't put any ideas forward in 2014, all they've done is allow Abbott and Hockey to hang themselves.

Post: #254

Well I am not silent as you may think, GeroMeroHero.

I post here, give my opinion, have debates with comrades IRL...
I even participated to an interview with French journalist students, to give my opinion about the Charlie Hebdo events. I even repeted what I already said here, about everyone caring about their rights first before doing their duties.

So maybe I am alone, but I am still not remaining silent.

Post: #255

(02-11-2015 03:40 AM)mikado Wrote:  Well I am not silent as you may think, GeroMeroHero.

I post here, give my opinion, have debates with comrades IRL...
I even participated to an interview with French journalist students, to give my opinion about the Charlie Hebdo events. I even repeted what I already said here, about everyone caring about their rights first before doing their duties.

So maybe I am alone, but I am still not remaining silent.

Of course we have noted your attempts, but you simply won't succeed because Islam is fundamentally oppressing and infiltrates all areas of life as it was designed to be.

Here a new story from Indonesia (a seemingly moderate Muslim country) where young students are to be subjected to virginity tests in order to be allowed to graduate from university:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/indonesia-femal...st-1487403

Islam oppresses everyone - when young, good-looking, intelligent men in their 20s have to resort to prison-like homosexuality to get their rocks off in countries like Saudi Arabia, then there is something wrong with the entire system:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arch...et/305774/

The way to deal with Islam is to push it out of everything - politics, economics, science, education, law enforcement - that Tiger should be kept in peace in a garden where people can visit, but what can you do, when the religion is essentially designed to permeate all areas of life, dominate and rule over all others?

Post: #256

In fairness, the Indonesian schoolgirl virginity test proposal appears to have been the idea of a rogue asshole, and two prominent Muslim groups were against the idea:

Quote:Habib Isa Mahdi, a lawmaker from the People’s Conscience Party (Hanura), drew disbelief when he said that Jember Regional Legislative Council (DPRD) was drafting a regulation on “good conduct,” which includes an article installing a virginity test as a requirement for female students’ graduation.

Isa said the city council thought the regulation was necessary because many secondary and high school students were engaging in pre-marital sexual activities.

On Tuesday, however, the council’s deputy speaker, Ayub Junaidi, apologized for the comments and said no such bylaw was being considered.

The Jember chapter of Nadhlatul Ulama (NU), the second-largest Muslim organization in Indonesia, opposed the proposal after it was announced.

On Monday the Indonesian Ulema Council (MUI) met with the Jember city council and voiced their disapproval too, saying it was discriminatory and opposed to proper Islamic teachings.

http://thejakartaglobe.beritasatu.com/ne...statement/

Post: #257

(02-11-2015 05:39 AM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  In fairness, the Indonesian schoolgirl virginity test proposal appears to have been the idea of a rogue asshole, and two prominent Muslim groups were against the idea:
...

Yeah - I get it, but it proves my point that you have to be ever vigilant in Muslim countries forever fighting with more extreme views on how they decide the rest has to live. Essentially you live with a bloody tiger in your living room.

Post: #258

(02-10-2015 01:24 PM)007 Wrote:  I would say that it's much more to do with what 'type' of Indian they are, rather than there caste. Same with the Chinese.

For example, the Gujarati and Punjabi communities in the UK are both highly successful (I'm gujarati myself, I believe forum member bojanges is too). But you won't hear about the same level of success from Bengali Indians.

Many Indians from these two groups are professionals, business owners and entrepreneurs. Although you may find a slightly higher number of Punjabis in blue collar work. If you see an Indian business anywhere in the world, there's a good chance it will be a Gujarati owned business.

Here's the point though, Indians and Chinese are successful and affluent everywhere except their homelands. Social, cultural and opportunity based factors all come into play. But when you give these two broad 'ethno/cultural groups' 'equal opportunity' they thrive.

The economist Thomas Sowell classifies Indians and Chinese as 'over achiever' groups, along with the Germans I believe.

In the Uk, apart from some Gujarati muslim groups (knoja, bohra, Ishmaeli) who are for the most part highly educated, successful and cool people, the rest of the muslim groups leave me with a bad taste in my mouth. It's just problem after problem with them.

Yeah I'm gujarati and you're right about gujarati business domination. I think 8 of the 10 richest men in India are gujarati or of gujarati origin. The majority of Indians kicked out of Uganda by Idi Amin were gujaratis. Gujaratis just assimilate into the societies they enter and start marking money. Also the amounts they send back to India is small in comparison to other ethnicities and them sending their money back to those countries.

My family bar myself has been quite entrepenurial, I have 2 uncles who moved to Kenya in the 50s on their British passports, they are millionaires. I have an uncle in Oman who works for the Sultan and is wealthy as well. Another family member got kicked out of Uganda and his family lost everything but he built himself back up and now owns 20 pharmaceutical businesses in England.

Must just be the mentality instilled into us or a cultural gujarati thing. Maybe it's shaming, underachievers are shamed to fuck by their families and society.

Post: #259

(02-11-2015 07:48 AM)bojangles Wrote:  ...

My family bar myself has been quite entrepenurial, I have 2 uncles who moved to Kenya in the 50s on their British passports, they are millionaires. I have an uncle in Oman who works for the Sultan and is wealthy as well. Another family member got kicked out of Uganda and his family lost everything but he built himself back up and now owns 20 pharmaceutical businesses in England.

Must just be the mentality instilled into us or a cultural gujarati thing. Maybe it's shaming, underachievers are shamed to fuck by their families and society.

Heh - practically all my Indian acquaintances and friends are at least successful or self-made millionaires.

But I don't think it's racial - more a certain mindset that gets transported from generation to generation - many Chinese have it too, also Jews as well as the old-school Christian protestants. Sometimes the reasons for this were due to the religion (protestant churches for sure), but sometimes it's a strange combination of culture, tradition that imprints all following generations.

That's why sometimes what we call Muslim here is more of a certain mindset than a true devout believer.

Post: #260

(02-11-2015 03:40 AM)mikado Wrote:  I even repeted what I already said here, about everyone caring about their rights first before doing their duties.

Interesting. What do you mean?

Post: #261

(02-11-2015 09:00 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  

(02-11-2015 03:40 AM)mikado Wrote:  I even repeted what I already said here, about everyone caring about their rights first before doing their duties.

Interesting. What do you mean?

I mean that you have to respect the duties of the zone/country/region you are in. Otherwise, if you are not the righteous owner, then you have to leave.

For exemple, France is a country with a tradition of catholicism, pork, freedom of speech, revolution, etc... Imposing the country to follow the rules of Middle East is irrational, and egotistical. Same goes for Middle East. If you know that you'll be punished in Middle East for drinking alcohol in public, then complaining about your right to drink there is foolish, since you are in no way the master of that place, and you must respect the rules. Same goes for the Western World. If you make the choice of living in a country like France or USA, then you must respect the general rules of the constitution, and/or the rules of your living region's government. Otherwise, there are plenty of other sites in the world where you can live the way you want.

However, between Muslims of Arab origin who want to instaure Sharia in Europe, and Westerners who want to legalize homosexuality in Muslim World, everyone seems to think first about their rights, and what they want, themselves, and don't give a shit about what others think.

Whereas following your duties as a citizen, or resident, may lead to everyone truly having their rights respected. Like, refusing to kill/beat someone who insulted your religion in the medias, because doing so is allowed by the country's constitution. Or not denying people to express their religion if they want, while still of course abiding by the law, might lead to the latter being grateful towards you for that, and like Voltaire said, disagree with what you say/think, but fight for your right to say so.


I have the same position on topics like welfare. Acknowledging that it's certainly a duty to help the poorer people of the country, but still, a duty to do whatever it takes to avoid resorting to welfare (for example, if you don't have a job, then apply as a carwasher, lumberjack, babysitter, or any other job that might make you provide for your family). And also, even if your rights are not fully exerced, allowing others to express theirs, and make an effort towards them, like Mandela did, unselfishly, is the best solution to reach true equality. However, everyone must do this, Muslims, blacks, whites, non muslims, jews, etc etc.

Alas, there is too much selfishness today. Instead of focusing on what unites us, we prefer focusing on what we disagree on.

My general position is: those who came the last in every country/region/global area in the world have to make the first step, and show they are truly trying to reach peace. Middle East, Europe, USA, Africa, it doesn't matter. Because after all, the host is the master in his house. However, the hosts must also be willing to have a dialogue.

Post: #262

(02-11-2015 03:40 AM)mikado Wrote:  Well I am not silent as you may think, GeroMeroHero.

I post here, give my opinion, have debates with comrades IRL...
I even participated to an interview with French journalist students, to give my opinion about the Charlie Hebdo events. I even repeted what I already said here, about everyone caring about their rights first before doing their duties.

So maybe I am alone, but I am still not remaining silent.

I did say I was not implicating you in this. Since you don't strike me as the silent type.
There is a clear difference between how you advocate for your identity and how that old peer of mine did. With you it is based on duty and fairness, with her it was togetherness and kumbaya nonsense.

(02-11-2015 03:38 AM)Deluge Wrote:  You don't know what you're talking about. There is a bi-partisan consensus on the immigration system, and I'm pretty sure the points system was a Labor initiative under Hawke/Keating anyway. The Chinese would suffer the most from losing that system as well. Chinese billionaires donate heavily to both parties to protect their mining interests, it's not because of immigration. The ethnic groups that do exercise undue influence over the Labor Party are Italians and Greeks because of the number of local branches they control in core Labor seats.

I stand corrected. Thank you.

Post: #263

(02-10-2015 02:48 PM)Wutang Wrote:  ^ I've met a few Begalis in the US and the one thing that stands about them especially when compared to other Indian types is how much more into partying and getting wild they are. They drink, hook up, attention whore constantly on social media - pretty much acting like white guidos/bros. This applies to both the girls and the guys. Funny thing is that most of them are practicing Muslims too and they'll talk about God and observe Ramadan but still get wasted on the weekends. I guess you could say they are the anti-IRT in a lot of ways.

Indian Bengalis (who tend to be Hindu) and Bangladeshis (mostly Muslim) are very different in terms of success. Many Bengalis are doctors. The Bangladeshis in the US are mostly from Chittangong, and seem to be more liberal than the UK based Bangladeshis, who are mostly Sylethi.

UK has the most uneducated Pakistanis and Bangladeshis, whereas the ones in the US tend to be more educated because of H1-B visa.

(02-11-2015 07:48 AM)bojangles Wrote:  

(02-10-2015 01:24 PM)007 Wrote:  I would say that it's much more to do with what 'type' of Indian they are, rather than there caste. Same with the Chinese.

For example, the Gujarati and Punjabi communities in the UK are both highly successful (I'm gujarati myself, I believe forum member bojanges is too). But you won't hear about the same level of success from Bengali Indians.

Many Indians from these two groups are professionals, business owners and entrepreneurs. Although you may find a slightly higher number of Punjabis in blue collar work. If you see an Indian business anywhere in the world, there's a good chance it will be a Gujarati owned business.

Here's the point though, Indians and Chinese are successful and affluent everywhere except their homelands. Social, cultural and opportunity based factors all come into play. But when you give these two broad 'ethno/cultural groups' 'equal opportunity' they thrive.

The economist Thomas Sowell classifies Indians and Chinese as 'over achiever' groups, along with the Germans I believe.

In the Uk, apart from some Gujarati muslim groups (knoja, bohra, Ishmaeli) who are for the most part highly educated, successful and cool people, the rest of the muslim groups leave me with a bad taste in my mouth. It's just problem after problem with them.

Yeah I'm gujarati and you're right about gujarati business domination. I think 8 of the 10 richest men in India are gujarati or of gujarati origin. The majority of Indians kicked out of Uganda by Idi Amin were gujaratis. Gujaratis just assimilate into the societies they enter and start marking money. Also the amounts they send back to India is small in comparison to other ethnicities and them sending their money back to those countries.

My family bar myself has been quite entrepenurial, I have 2 uncles who moved to Kenya in the 50s on their British passports, they are millionaires. I have an uncle in Oman who works for the Sultan and is wealthy as well. Another family member got kicked out of Uganda and his family lost everything but he built himself back up and now owns 20 pharmaceutical businesses in England.

Must just be the mentality instilled into us or a cultural gujarati thing. Maybe it's shaming, underachievers are shamed to fuck by their families and society.

I’m Punjabi and in my family it’s considered a disgrace if you are not doing something with your life. When I was old enough I was told to stay in education, get a job, or get the fuck out of the house. It’s unacceptable to live on welfare. I guess this goes back to my parents being from an Indian village with no education. Over there you work or you starve to death.

Post: #264

Good piece in The Commentator:

Quote:The BBC and Islam: Let the children be raped

Between the liberal-Left BBC and the hopeless British police who have internalised far-Left neo-fascist political correctness, little children are being raped and then blamed for being raped because the rapists are Muslim

Will the BBC ever give up on its intellectually dishonest liberal bias? After the devastating Casey report exposing Rotherham Council’s bigoted concerns for Pakistani Muslim sensitivities at the expense of sexually exploited local children, it might have been thought that even the liberal BBC could not put a damage limitation or PC spin on Rotherham’s sex crimes.

Enter Edward Stourton of the BBC’s World At One.

Discussing Rotherham Council’s neglect of vulnerable children with Camilla Cavendish of The Sunday Times, Mr Stourton asked her:

“To what extent do you think part of the problem is what you might call ‘rotten boroughs’ -- in other words local authorities which have been under the control of one political party for a long period of time where the usual checks and balances that you might expect don’t apply?”

Got that? The Rotherham Council sex abuse problem, according to the BBC, might not be rotten councillors running scared of the Muslim community (one ethnic Pakistani councillor was praised by the police for his ability to stop Pakistani men coming out onto the streets to confront the English Defence League) but simply “rotten boroughs” suffering the usual bureaucratic complacency.

Had the BBC’s Mr Stourton even read the latest report on Rotherham? An objective reading of Louise Casey’s report does not allow for any ambiguity. The glaring fact about Rotherham Council and the local police is that underage children were being abused by Pakistani Muslim men and the authorities ran scared of the problem.

Amazingly, in one case the police even took the fight to the abused child. A 13 year old girl, “was found" by the police at 3am -- in a semi-derelict house alone with a large group of adult males. She was drunk, the result of having been supplied with alcohol, and there was evidence that her clothing had been disrupted.

She alone was arrested for a public order offence, detained, prosecuted, appeared before the Youth Court and received a Referral Order for which the YOT arranged ‘reparation’, drug and alcohol counselling, art psychotherapy and victim awareness sessions.”

What a wonderful example of crime-busting. It would be interesting to know what those “victim awareness sessions” were about. Incredibly, there’s a suggestion that the Pakistani abusers were seen as the victims of the abused child, a point confirmed by a reference in the report about the police:

“The sense was that if there had been any offence it had been by the girls, for luring the men in.” Those Pakistani abusers must have thought they were in paradise.

The fact is that in this shabby Rotherham affair, Muslim sensitivities and post-Macpherson subservience to ethnic minority self-esteem came before the right of local children to be protected by the criminal law.

That’s the big news in Britain today, everyone is not equal before the law. The failure of the police and councillors in Rotherham to protect vulnerable children is one of the greatest scandals of our time, and yet rather than do everything possible to expose such failure, the BBC appears to go out of its way to neutralise the Casey findings.

The problem, according to the BBC’s World At One, is “rotten boroughs”, not rotten councillors and police.

But of course there’s nothing new here. The BBC for years has been aware of the allegations about Pakistani Muslim sex abuse gangs in Rotherham, yet did nothing to find out the facts.

Instead, almost as an adjunct of the puerile but nasty Unite Against Fascism (UAF) movement, the BBC launched an undercover investigation against those making the allegations, the British National Party (BNP), -- a nasty bunch to be sure, but not a bunch that has raped thousands of children.

In 2004, the BBC made a documentary The Secret Agent which exposed the BNP as racist. The documentary, based on a report by a BBC undercover investigator, did indeed show unsavoury racist BNP characters -- no surprise there -- but it also showed BNP claims about Muslim sex abuse gangs, claims that are now accepted as fact by the police and by the mainstream media, but at the time ignored by the BBC.

The truth is that until recently the only people shouting loudly about the Rotherham child sex scandal were those on the far Right, such as the BNP and the EDL Indeed, the Casey report refers to police concerns about the BNP as possible reasons for backing-off from bringing prosecutions against the Pakistani child-groomers.

For years, what was happening in Rotherham was a time-bomb of a story just waiting to explode, yet the mainstream media left the story to the likes of the BNP. That says as much about the BBC as it does about the BNP itself.

The BBC was more interested in its self-righteous and bigoted United-Against-Fascism-style moral crusade in exposing BNP thuggery (a fact of no surprise to anyone) than it was in exposing the much bigger story of police and local authority evasions of responsibility that left vulnerable little girls to the mercy of criminal Pakistani gangs.

Post: #265

Every time i see the number 1400 when I scroll through the Everything Else section my blood boils and a chunk of compassion and decency towards all muslims and government dies.
Just saying...

Post: #266

Chinese solution:

Force Imams to dance in the street waving chinese flags and stuff



In China, imams are being forced to dans, at the same time being made to make an oath to keep children away from religion - public servants are forced to brandish the slogan that "our income comes from the CKP not from Allah".

The imams of the mosques in the Xinjiang (East Turkestan) have been forerced to gather in a square dancing en masse. State Chinese news have said that in the name of "civilization" the imams have been forced to dance in the town square. At the same time they were forced to chant out slogans such as 'peace of the country gives peace to the soul". Many of the imams were forcibly given Chinese flags - the same demonstration also included university students.

During the speeches, young people were told to stay away from mosques, and that the prayer was harmful to ones health and instead were encouraged to dance. Female teachers were instructed to teach children to stay away from religious education and made to swear an oath that they will keep children away from religion.

Post: #267

So you think that forcing them to dance and make stupid moves is the best solution to reach an agreement? Making old and fragile grown ass men dance to a stupid (maybe true, but stupid nonetheless) slogan?

Why not just punish severely any act against people from another religion/atheists, but leave them the fuck alone as long they do not harm others?

This is just the same problem, the domination of a group of people by another.

How can you hope to reach an agreement if everyone (from the CKP to the tyrants of Saudi Arabia) resorts to these humiliating practices?

To those who are appreciating this situation: would you be happy if in the Middle East they made people dance while shouting this kind of slogans?

At least this is why I am happy to be in France: even though sometimes religion issues really go out of hand, this shit will never happen.

Post: #268

(02-12-2015 05:18 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  Chinese solution:

Force Imams to dance in the street waving chinese flags and stuff



In China, imams are being forced to dans, at the same time being made to make an oath to keep children away from religion - public servants are forced to brandish the slogan that "our income comes from the CKP not from Allah".

The Chinese have the best solution so far to deal with Islam within their country. They probably have some more hard-core measures with which I would not agree, but the pictures and the enforced nudging to see themselves as 100% Chinese first and Muslim second is a good measure. Also not tolerance against any form of extremist thinking or actions.

This would work in the West too - guys like Mikado would be unaffected by the measures.

But that would be too much PC - the elite has other plans in my opinions. I think they want a war and peaceful Muslims who integrate 100% with the indigenous population are not on their agenda.

BTW - the stupid group dance is something the Chinese let their workers and some government employees do similar stuff - it's more a cultural thing.

Post: #269

Ok, but some solutions can be found, that would be better.

Like, making Imams teach (while supervising them) children about the importance of being Chinese, showing them how can they combine both Islam and fidelity to the Chinese Republic. Force mandatory Chinese flags in the mosques and control the sermons that are hostile to the State. Punish severely the imams who go against. They could reach the same result, with better ways.

However, the problem in tyrannic states like China or Saudi Arabia is that it would be too democratic for them. Way better to just go overboard and spread their ideas by force.

Fuck this Earth.

Post: #270

(02-12-2015 05:41 PM)mikado Wrote:  Fuck this Earth.

I wholeheartedly agree on that point.

BTW - the measures you propose are pretty strong and I think the Chinese do many of them anyway.

Post: #271

(02-12-2015 06:25 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(02-12-2015 05:41 PM)mikado Wrote:  Fuck this Earth.

I wholeheartedly agree on that point.

Damn right.

Sometimes I fantasise about going all cult-leader-founder-whatever and hole myself up in the desert somewhere with a collection of betas and a harem of hotties.

Post: #272

(02-12-2015 06:27 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(02-12-2015 06:25 PM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  

(02-12-2015 05:41 PM)mikado Wrote:  Fuck this Earth.

I wholeheartedly agree on that point.

Damn right.

Sometimes I fantasise about going all cult-leader-founder-whatever and hole myself up in the desert somewhere with a collection of betas and a harem of hotties.

Some are already having plans of buying a private island in tropical climates and open their little independent Red Pill state.

Post: #273

(02-12-2015 05:41 PM)mikado Wrote:  Ok, but some solutions can be found, that would be better.

Like, making Imams teach (while supervising them) children about the importance of being Chinese, showing them how can they combine both Islam and fidelity to the Chinese Republic. Force mandatory Chinese flags in the mosques and control the sermons that are hostile to the State. Punish severely the imams who go against. They could reach the same result, with better ways.

However, the problem in tyrannic states like China or Saudi Arabia is that it would be too democratic for them. Way better to just go overboard and spread their ideas by force.

Fuck this Earth.

China is doing pretty well

There are 1.3 billion people there, and they are trying to keep that country together.

Forging national unity, instead of allowing discord, is how they're keeping their country together.

Their country is pretty civilized as far as it goes, though they don't have a problem with, say, executing a lot of people or not respecting religious freedom. Their model of civilization certainly looks better than most places in the world.

Post: #274

(02-12-2015 05:29 PM)mikado Wrote:  So you think that forcing them to dance and make stupid moves is the best solution to reach an agreement? Making old and fragile grown ass men dance to a stupid (maybe true, but stupid nonetheless) slogan?

Why not just punish severely any act against people from another religion/atheists, but leave them the fuck alone as long they do not harm others?

This is just the same problem, the domination of a group of people by another.

How can you hope to reach an agreement if everyone (from the CKP to the tyrants of Saudi Arabia) resorts to these humiliating practices?

To those who are appreciating this situation: would you be happy if in the Middle East they made people dance while shouting this kind of slogans?

At least this is why I am happy to be in France: even though sometimes religion issues really go out of hand, this shit will never happen.

Name one Muslim country that's better to live in over China.

Post: #275

(a bit biased answer, but still valid) : Senegal.

No religion issue, Christians are respected, it's patriarchal, and if you have enough money then you can do whatever you want,without the government overtaxing you.

With 1000$ a month you live quite well there.