Post: #26

I didn't do a company internship during undergrad, I worked part-time in a university laboratory doing research.

Post: #27

I have a Bachelor's Degree in ElectroMechanical Engineering. Worked a couple of years after graduating in the mid 2000's doing quality testing for wireless control systems for vehicle security. Burnt myself out with the hours & stress. Switched industries to outdoor adventure soon after.
The Engineer's systematic approach, problem solving skills & ability to derive order from chaos is not something to be underestimated.
I'm a better outdoor operator because of it. Currently working & studying for a Master's in Risk Management & Health & Safety.

I'm certain the carry over to other aspects in life are beneficial for anyone with an engineering background of some sort, regardless of formal education or not.

Post: #28

Your career is really what you make of it at the end of the day. As people before me have mentioned engineering teaches you how to think rationally and evaluate problems, a good skill to have in any career.

I have recently graduated (8 months ago) as an engineer and am currently working in the oilfields. Life sucks but at the same time you make enough money to start planning your escape, whether that be your side business, real estate etc. It's giving me a good start in life, and shit that's all I need fellas.

Post: #29

I have an engineering degree which I have rarely used in an engineering job. Here are some of my thoughts:

1. The various engineering disciplines are difficult to study and they require a lot of motivation.
2. Engineering students have less time to enjoy the pursuits of university life.
3. Expect to have a male dominated social circle with the odd, over-valued woman engineer (socially and professionally).
4. For the amount of work, pay is not great - especially if you are not a member of a professional body which takes more years to get into.
5. Engineers are very beta-$. Men I knew who could barely talk to women, fell like flies into marriage as soon as they got a decent job. They should have been the ones wearing white at the wedding - not the wives!
6. Western civilisation with the exception of Germany, does not value the engineer. It prefers non-productive sectors such as banking and law which are parasitical in nature in relation to engineering which is not only productive but synergic. The Chinese government is full of engineers while western governments are made up of real estate landlords, bankers and lawyers.
7. The term 'engineer' is not protected as is 'architect'.

If you will enjoy it and are a natural at the high level of mathematics involved, then why not do it. If not, the whole thing is a struggle.

Post: #30

More good points, especially #6. I wonder how that came to be in America, that fields like law, business, medicine are so highly praised yet engineering/science is skewered with TV shows like "Big Bang Theory"? That's exactly what I've come to realize, even with women. Ideally, they would prefer to marry business managers, lawyers, and doctors. In the meantime they want the unemployed badass to bang them out. Engineers/STEM workers are just not on their radar and thus have no card to play other than the greater beta card, and even that is not worth the "reward" in my opinion. I just act mysterious when the what-do-you-do question pops up and tell them I'm a "designer" or "I work in the medical device field". I take a blue-collar approach to my work and talk about mostly other stuff when I'm gaming females.

The American caricature of engineers is terrible: beta, socially awkward, cheap, unhip/fashion-challenged, obsessed with nerdy stuff like sci fi, gaming, etc. but we're apparently nice guys who are good for families. There is some truth behind those stereotypes, I'll give them that; but I certainly don't fall under many of these stereotypes. I still want to have a family someday but I don't want to be patronized, beta-ized, profiled, and taken for granted.

Post: #31

Go to the oil industry.

Having an engineering degree is a right of passage.

Everywhere else though I have to agree, It sucks relatively. You max out at 100-200k.

The exception I see is a lot of engineers get MBAs and move into finance. There you can make a lot.

Post: #32

(02-06-2015 01:02 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  More good points, especially #6. I wonder how that came to be in America, that fields like law, business, medicine are so highly praised yet engineering/science is skewered with TV shows like "Big Bang Theory"? That's exactly what I've come to realize, even with women. Ideally, they would prefer to marry business managers, lawyers, and doctors. In the meantime they want the unemployed badass to bang them out. Engineers/STEM workers are just not on their radar and thus have no card to play other than the greater beta card, and even that is not worth the "reward" in my opinion. I just act mysterious when the what-do-you-do question pops up and tell them I'm a "designer" or "I work in the medical device field". I take a blue-collar approach to my work and talk about mostly other stuff when I'm gaming females.

The American caricature of engineers is terrible: beta, socially awkward, cheap, unhip/fashion-challenged, obsessed with nerdy stuff like sci fi, gaming, etc. but we're apparently nice guys who are good for families. There is some truth behind those stereotypes, I'll give them that; but I certainly don't fall under many of these stereotypes. I still want to have a family someday but I don't want to be patronized, beta-ized, profiled, and taken for granted.

Well you cant blame the way society looks at engineers without blaming engineers as well.
From a organizational point of view where is the engineer lobby?
Why do doctors get to control the amount of graduates yet engineers let companies lobby for more visa indentured workers?

From a social stance, you have higher workload in college and a lot of people just put social life on the back burner. A lot of engineers are not out going in general I found, now combine that with always being busy and its a death trap. Most are not active in building a social circle. Engineers are also surrounded by people dressing sub par and assume its okay in school. No girls in classes makes you not care about waking up and going to class without showering when you where up till 4 am doing an assignment.

I still haven't figured out the professional side of engineering, I dont think its for me unless I find a sales job or something that actually interests me. Just going to wait for oil to make a comeback. But I can at least get some advice for the college kids since thats where the problem with engineering starts.

1) Learn how to learn before you start. Before the semester starts read/listen to Brian Tracy Accelerated Learning Techniques. Use the techniques and read/listen to it again. Use a planner and read a book on time management if you have to. Doing this will allow you to have free time which frees you from being a typical engineer. Be honest with yourself, find the most efficient method for each professor to get a good grade.

2) For everyday style, I would suggest leaning more towards the college athlete/bro look. Make sure its still thought out and clean, none of that matching purple shoes and t-shirt. Something like clean af1s, a nice set of sweatpants and a clean white crew neck. Invest in a nice backpack and never over stuff it. This is mainly what the girls go for, and you will meet more guys with a good social circle. Even though a more mature look thats more common on this forum might work, I dont recommend it because the goal is to set yourself apart from engineering you. Get a haircut every two weeks or learn to cut yourself. Make sure your face is never greasy.

3) Get a reliable tight crew in your major that wants to get work done for class. Split up homework, teach each other afterwards. Come to all your classes early and start conversations with people. What major are you, you start that assignment, I left last class early can I get the notes etc. You have to be active in meeting people from other majors/groups. Its like game, most people at best will just pan out to someone say hi to on campus next semester, others you will be partying with.

4) Lifting is a given, but play some sport, doesnt have to be organized, find out when the basketball court is open. Its serves three main purposes 1) Cardio. 2) Testosterone, its earned not given 3) You will bond with more guys in an hour trying to beat the other team than drinking every week with some blokes for a semester. Social proof doesnt happen on its own.

5) Make sure your dorm/apartment is a good hang out spot. Tons of info on this forum, but keep it clean/smelling nice, music playlists, alcohol fridge/glassware/cups, smoke piece (I suggest portable vape if on campus, also keeps you from having to smoke out huge groups and uses less weed), rug so smoke piece dont break/girls take shoes off.

key is to have balance, dont jump from the engineering circle to the stoner circle. Know enough engineers to do well in class, know enough stoners to get someone a hook up when they ask if you know of one. Read the freshman college meme, avoid doing those things.

maybe if more people know alpha type engineers more engineers will get respected. At the end of the day though just gotta work for yourself.

Post: #33

(02-10-2015 04:47 PM)oilbreh Wrote:  

(02-06-2015 01:02 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  More good points, especially #6. I wonder how that came to be in America, that fields like law, business, medicine are so highly praised yet engineering/science is skewered with TV shows like "Big Bang Theory"? That's exactly what I've come to realize, even with women. Ideally, they would prefer to marry business managers, lawyers, and doctors. In the meantime they want the unemployed badass to bang them out. Engineers/STEM workers are just not on their radar and thus have no card to play other than the greater beta card, and even that is not worth the "reward" in my opinion. I just act mysterious when the what-do-you-do question pops up and tell them I'm a "designer" or "I work in the medical device field". I take a blue-collar approach to my work and talk about mostly other stuff when I'm gaming females.

The American caricature of engineers is terrible: beta, socially awkward, cheap, unhip/fashion-challenged, obsessed with nerdy stuff like sci fi, gaming, etc. but we're apparently nice guys who are good for families. There is some truth behind those stereotypes, I'll give them that; but I certainly don't fall under many of these stereotypes. I still want to have a family someday but I don't want to be patronized, beta-ized, profiled, and taken for granted.

Well you cant blame the way society looks at engineers without blaming engineers as well.
From a organizational point of view where is the engineer lobby?
Why do doctors get to control the amount of graduates yet engineers let companies lobby for more visa indentured workers?

From a social stance, you have higher workload in college and a lot of people just put social life on the back burner. A lot of engineers are not out going in general I found, now combine that with always being busy and its a death trap. Most are not active in building a social circle. Engineers are also surrounded by people dressing sub par and assume its okay in school. No girls in classes makes you not care about waking up and going to class without showering when you where up till 4 am doing an assignment.

I still haven't figured out the professional side of engineering, I dont think its for me unless I find a sales job or something that actually interests me. Just going to wait for oil to make a comeback. But I can at least get some advice for the college kids since thats where the problem with engineering starts.

1) Learn how to learn before you start. Before the semester starts read/listen to Brian Tracy Accelerated Learning Techniques. Use the techniques and read/listen to it again. Use a planner and read a book on time management if you have to. Doing this will allow you to have free time which frees you from being a typical engineer. Be honest with yourself, find the most efficient method for each professor to get a good grade.

2) For everyday style, I would suggest leaning more towards the college athlete/bro look. Make sure its still thought out and clean, none of that matching purple shoes and t-shirt. Something like clean af1s, a nice set of sweatpants and a clean white crew neck. Invest in a nice backpack and never over stuff it. This is mainly what the girls go for, and you will meet more guys with a good social circle. Even though a more mature look thats more common on this forum might work, I dont recommend it because the goal is to set yourself apart from engineering you. Get a haircut every two weeks or learn to cut yourself. Make sure your face is never greasy.

3) Get a reliable tight crew in your major that wants to get work done for class. Split up homework, teach each other afterwards. Come to all your classes early and start conversations with people. What major are you, you start that assignment, I left last class early can I get the notes etc. You have to be active in meeting people from other majors/groups. Its like game, most people at best will just pan out to someone say hi to on campus next semester, others you will be partying with.

4) Lifting is a given, but play some sport, doesnt have to be organized, find out when the basketball court is open. Its serves three main purposes 1) Cardio. 2) Testosterone, its earned not given 3) You will bond with more guys in an hour trying to beat the other team than drinking every week with some blokes for a semester. Social proof doesnt happen on its own.

5) Make sure your dorm/apartment is a good hang out spot. Tons of info on this forum, but keep it clean/smelling nice, music playlists, alcohol fridge/glassware/cups, smoke piece (I suggest portable vape if on campus, also keeps you from having to smoke out huge groups and uses less weed), rug so smoke piece dont break/girls take shoes off.

key is to have balance, dont jump from the engineering circle to the stoner circle. Know enough engineers to do well in class, know enough stoners to get someone a hook up when they ask if you know of one. Read the freshman college meme, avoid doing those things.

maybe if more people know alpha type engineers more engineers will get respected. At the end of the day though just gotta work for yourself.

Find the engineers who party. Getting laid is a pain in the ass. You're never really around girls and your time is at a premium,

I highly suggest 5 years, and lots and lots of adderall.

Post: #34

I'm surprised at the level of unhappiness here as it has not been my experience at all.

I'm just at the tail end of a 4 year Bachelors degree in Engineering, majoring in Mechatronics and also Product Development.
Formal education has always been difficult for me. Basically, I figured out how the education system works, observed what happens in the real world and altered my tactics from there. This resulted in me doing the minimum amount of work required for things that didn't matter in real life and kicking ass on the things that did (what a future employer/myself would look at and be impressed by). For example, our last year includes a substantial project to show what we're capable of, which is basically the only thing anyone in the real world cares for. Many A grade students that are oblivious to the real world do stupid or irrelevant projects which comes back to bite them in the ass.
I just finished my project which involved designing a control system and implementing it on a vehicle, including software and hardware from scratch. This sort of skill demonstration is exactly what an employer is after so I have no problem in getting jobs. I could quit tomorrow and walk into a couple of jobs the next day.

Started my current gig at a local engineering firm emptying bins between semesters 2 years ago and am now there full time.
I was given my own office 6 months ago and since then have become a sort of second project/job manager for a group of around 15 staff. I achieved this by always being open to learn about stuff that the people higher up than me do. Also, making an effort to learn about a broad range of things in the business. Eg how to work all the machines, how to work all the software, how to start jobs, deal with customers, purchasing, stock keeping, how to do basic pneumatic, hydraulics, wiring etc. Everyone else will just go "oh not my area/problem sorry" and go back to grinding.

I've had a couple of days where both the boss and the main manager have been away leaving me in charge of 20 odd people. Some of the older more experienced guys HATE being told what to do by a 24 year old who hasn't even graduated yet...

I dislike working (who doesn't), and will definitely be running my own business in the future, but there is no job I'd rather be doing while working for someone.

There are many pros but the biggest by far is no HR bitches or any females to fuck with the male group dynamics. We have after work drinks and a BBQ every week and the conversation is basically exactly like this forum - tinder stories, town stories, giving someone shit for banging a fatty etc.
Also I have a massive workshop with all the good gear available to be after hours for cashies and working on my own stuff.

Hope I don't sound like I'm talking it/myself up too much, but getting into the right engineering gig with a good group of mates and a cool boss can be awesome.

Post: #35

^^The take-home from this is: 'set up your career early'.

You did exactly the right thing - starting work half-way into your degree, rather than just joining the hoard of grads who wait until final year and bulk-apply.

Post: #36

I hold a Bachelor's and a Master's degree in electrical engineering and I agree with everything that has been said above. In Western Europe as well, engineering is undervalued. Bankers, lawyers and doctors are paid a lot more and have far higher social status.

Moreover, the so-called "lack of engineers" companies are facing is complete bullshit. All of my friends who work in industry are employed in shitty paper-pushing jobs, they are basically glorified secretaries. I have the impression that this constant cry from industry for more engineers has two motivations:
1) Companies want to lower the engineering salaries even further. Even today, where I live, as an engineer you will barely earn 20-30% more than a useless liberal arts graduate.
2) Ideally, companies want to employ engineers, who have excellent logical and analytical skills, in every single function.

If you want to make the best out of your degree, I recommend the following things:
1) Dress properly. Most practicing engineers wear terrible, polyester fabric, suits that are three sizes too large. Then they add an ill-fitting shirt and a tie without any regard for color coordination. And finally they top it off with square-toed shoes. Don't fall into the same trap. Get proper fitting, decent quality, clothes and learn to coordinate the colours. You will stand out and people will notice.
2) Learn to talk in front of an audience. I slack a lot at work, most days I put in 2 hours of work while my colleagues work a lot harder. However, I am a very good public speaker while they completely suck at it. As a result, I get the funds and the collaborations, which in turn allow me to slack even more. Most people, including your boss, are more easily convinced by words and appearance than by facts and hard work. Accept this reality and use it to your advantage.
3) Start your own business. As an engineer this is practically your only chance to make real money. Your analytical skills are not valued in the corporate environment but they come in very handy when you want to start a company. I would say that engineering is the ideal study if you want to be your own boss - it teaches you hard work, logical and analytical thinking. Ideally you work on your own business while you are slacking at work.

Post: #37

(02-11-2015 02:03 PM)PhDre Wrote:  Moreover, the so-called "lack of engineers" companies are facing is complete bullshit. All of my friends who work in industry are employed in shitty paper-pushing jobs, they are basically glorified secretaries. I have the impression that this constant cry from industry for more engineers has two motivations:
1) Companies want to lower the engineering salaries even further.

This is exactly what I think. Whoever are behind the 'shortage of engineers' rumours are lying through their teeth. I suspect that those with vested interests, namely employers (want lower engineering wages) and professors and their universities (want more students), are deliberately spreading this disinformation.

Post: #38

It's all about getting more H1B visas for programmers from India and China.

Post: #39

Engineering degrees are still the best bet. An engineer can get a job as a banker fairly easily with the strong math skills, a business major cannot get a job as an engineer.

Post: #40

^absolutely true. I am not bitching about the degree, but about the typical engineering jobs. An engineering degree will open the door to almost any career, except for protected professions like law, medecine, architecture... Get the degree and try to get into finance or start your own business.

Just stay away from the typical engineering jobs like calculation engineer, CAD designer, manufacturing, quality control etc. You will work hard for a comparatively small salary. Moreover your salary will max out quickly, no matter how much of a specialist or a genius you are, because your manager (who has a business or a communications degree and understands nothing about the work you are doing) cannot stand that one of his subordinates earns more than he does.

Post: #41

Engineering is also pretty easily transferable. I know a lot of guys who got jobs overseas pretty easily. It's a universal language.

Post: #42

I say pursue your passion. I studied electrical engineering and found that while I like problem solving
I also like interacting with people...so I switched to marketing and entrepreneurship.

Engineering is such a broad industry that you can go anywhere and transfer your skills.

Post: #43

(02-12-2015 01:37 PM)PhDre Wrote:  ^absolutely true. I am not bitching about the degree, but about the typical engineering jobs. An engineering degree will open the door to almost any career, except for protected professions like law, medecine, architecture... Get the degree and try to get into finance or start your own business.

Just stay away from the typical engineering jobs like calculation engineer, CAD designer, manufacturing, quality control etc. You will work hard for a comparatively small salary. Moreover your salary will max out quickly, no matter how much of a specialist or a genius you are, because your manager (who has a business or a communications degree and understands nothing about the work you are doing) cannot stand that one of his subordinates earns more than he does.

Good points. Problem for me is, although I'm naturally really good with numbers (love baseball stats for example), I think I'd be really bored in a finance/business job, day trader, or the like. I'm analytical as hell alright like any engineer, but I'm also a very subjective and creative thinker, I enjoy the CAD design and have a solid interest in med devices. I'm thinking technical consulting involving design/product development is the best route for me that could give me a high income and personal satisfaction (creative expression), unless I can also start my own freelance biz.

Post: #44

^^Whatever you think you like, will you enjoy it after being forced to do it to meet deadlines for 5 years to make someone else rich? I've known many guys who just like designing things, to no real end, and expectedly - they just get exploited for it. After all, imagine if someone actually enjoyed cleaning toilets, would you ever need to pay them more to retain them?

(02-12-2015 10:43 PM)clever alias Wrote:  Engineering is also pretty easily transferable. I know a lot of guys who got jobs overseas pretty easily. It's a universal language.

I'm interested to hear more about this...

Post: #45

(02-13-2015 01:08 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  ^^Whatever you think you like, will you enjoy it after being forced to do it to meet deadlines for 5 years to make someone else rich? I've known many guys who just like designing things, to no real end, and expectedly - they just get exploited for it. After all, imagine if someone actually enjoyed cleaning toilets, would you ever need to pay them more to retain them?

(02-12-2015 10:43 PM)clever alias Wrote:  Engineering is also pretty easily transferable. I know a lot of guys who got jobs overseas pretty easily. It's a universal language.

I'm interested to hear more about this...

Seconded

Post: #46

(02-13-2015 01:38 AM)philosophical_recovery Wrote:  

(02-13-2015 01:08 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  ^^Whatever you think you like, will you enjoy it after being forced to do it to meet deadlines for 5 years to make someone else rich? I've known many guys who just like designing things, to no real end, and expectedly - they just get exploited for it. After all, imagine if someone actually enjoyed cleaning toilets, would you ever need to pay them more to retain them?

(02-12-2015 10:43 PM)clever alias Wrote:  Engineering is also pretty easily transferable. I know a lot of guys who got jobs overseas pretty easily. It's a universal language.

I'm interested to hear more about this...

Seconded

Thirded

I've heard of Chemical/Petrolium engineers getting assignments in South Am, Central Am, Middle East, Indonesia, etc. I've seen a few Mechanical jobs in Aerospace in Europe and Mid East. Seems like Medical Devices is mostly an American thing, although I'd love to hear about any overseas opportunities.

Post: #47

(02-13-2015 05:03 PM)blacknwhitespade Wrote:  

(02-13-2015 01:38 AM)philosophical_recovery Wrote:  

(02-13-2015 01:08 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  ^^Whatever you think you like, will you enjoy it after being forced to do it to meet deadlines for 5 years to make someone else rich? I've known many guys who just like designing things, to no real end, and expectedly - they just get exploited for it. After all, imagine if someone actually enjoyed cleaning toilets, would you ever need to pay them more to retain them?

(02-12-2015 10:43 PM)clever alias Wrote:  Engineering is also pretty easily transferable. I know a lot of guys who got jobs overseas pretty easily. It's a universal language.

I'm interested to hear more about this...

Seconded

Thirded

I've heard of Chemical/Petrolium engineers getting assignments in South Am, Central Am, Middle East, Indonesia, etc. I've seen a few Mechanical jobs in Aerospace in Europe and Mid East. Seems like Medical Devices is mostly an American thing, although I'd love to hear about any overseas opportunities.

My impression of engineering career: You can either switch industry sectors (hard) or job hierarchy levels/positions (not that easy), but doing both steps at the same time seems almost impossible.
The more technical your work, the harder. For a quality, application or sales engineer doing both steps seems more likely.

Post: #48

Just go to any major international corporation and check their job postings where you want to go. Engineering is going to come up again and again.

Post: #49

Corporate engineering is a ticket to "comfortable", "cog in the wheel "middle class lifestyle. That is what many of you would consider "beta bucks" lifestyle. Working as a corporate engineer has in general few upsides (other than nice hours most engineers I know work 40 hours with an occasional 50-60 hour week and make about 20k more than the other people working only 9-5). However the skills you learn as an engineer can be leveraged with communication and sales skills to build an awesome career.

Post: #50

(02-13-2015 10:57 PM)clever alias Wrote:  Just go to any major international corporation and check their job postings where you want to go. Engineering is going to come up again and again.

Oh right, you don't actually know any guys do you?