Post: #76

^^ No way to tell without knowing at least your GPA. I would say the more your GPA is below 3.5(out of 4.0), more chances you have with mid-size ($500m or less annual revenue).

The higher the GPA, the more you should hit up $1b+ companies. Depending on the career fairs, you are generally less likely to come across these and chances are still low but there are ways to make an impression and win them over.

That's why I say join a frat or group that brings the biggest firms to you. Sometimes you can even get into big firms with a lower GPA as long as you go to these more "exclusive" events and show value in things beyond GPA as I noted in the data sheet.

Post: #77

(08-05-2014 05:52 PM)Cobra Wrote:  @UnW - no I don't think being away for 1+ years will affect you, especially if you're trying to get AWAY from professional services and into the Corporate side of things.

Corporate, it's like another world anyways since you won't be doing the same things as you did in the Big 4. The reason people hire Big 4 people is their dedication and efficiency as well as their ability to be normal socially and catch on to complex concepts quickly, not their Accounting knowledge for the most part. They're looking for soft skills (in the kind of higher caliber jobs you'll apply for) that you would have developed in the Big 4 which don't go away even if you have been away for 5 years.

If you're teaching, it's even better. You can say you "really enjoyed the variety at the Big 4 but also loved coaching others as a senior and it opened your mind into the broader world of teaching others which is why you went into teaching English..blah blah." I've used similar lines at interviews and they drop their panties.

Just resigned from my big 4 job today, cannot be more relieved!

Post: #78

Me and the other technical guys always poke fun at the accountants at work for taking a wussy degree! ( oil industry).

But whenever the company has to can employees, the accountants always live to see another day. Meanwhile us science guys always wind up posting resumes.

Incredible job security because it's such a valuable skill.

Post: #79

I'd probably be drinking a beer in the shower while crying had it not been for Cobra. I've currently got tears of joy on my face

Cobra just saved my fucking ass with his accounting knowledge and he pumped me up to go out gaming.

Post: #80

^^^ I spent about an hour plus on the phone with L M McCoy. He forgot to mention the part how he almost bust a nut into the phone with all those tears of joy Kidding!

When he called it was right after he checked his test score; he had just before that woke up from a depressive slumber after leaving the test.

I told him to go approach like 10 girls to celebrate. Felt a bit like a big brother .

On a serious note, I felt really good about helping this kid and he caught me at a good time when I truly had an hour to spare.

That made me realize, if anyone here wants my help understanding basic or advanced accounting concepts, or even finance or business concepts, feel free to reach out. All I ask is you do your homework first and I'll be happy to talk through and help you understand this shit using plain english.

Post: #81

(12-13-2014 10:48 AM)Cobra Wrote:  ^^^ I spent about an hour plus on the phone with L M McCoy. He forgot to mention the part how he almost bust a nut into the phone with all those tears of joy Kidding!

When he called it was right after he checked his test score; he had just before that woke up from a depressive slumber after leaving the test.

I told him to go approach like 10 girls to celebrate. Felt a bit like a big brother .

On a serious note, I felt really good about helping this kid and he caught me at a good time when I truly had an hour to spare.

That made me realize, if anyone here wants my help understanding basic or advanced accounting concepts, or even finance or business concepts, feel free to reach out. All I ask is you do your homework first and I'll be happy to talk through and help you understand this shit using plain english.

You promised you weren't going to tell

I'll pm you later on how the approaches went. Nothing to brag about though

Post: #82

(07-10-2014 10:55 PM)Cobra Wrote:  Well 60+ hours at a Big 4 office is different from 60+ at a desk in Corporate. In the Big 4, you're spending those 60 hours talking to experienced people and learning how to socially interact in addition to learning about their big ass business. You're also surrounded by hot girls in the office on Saturday mornings (since you have to come in for the most part) that haven't been banged since they were also working 60+ hours. You work hard and play hard at the Big 4 but at Corporate you may work hard but end up playing with your Manager's kids on the weekends.

Thank you.
I have to say, I think you've sold me on going to the Big 4. I hate working long hours, so I thought I would rather have a good work/life balance. But I had never considered this perspective.
I wanted to do Audit too, eventually hoping to move on to financial consulting. Exactly for the social reasons you mentioned.
Yet somehow, I just always thought dread when I considered 60 hour weeks.
I wasn't thinking about how 60 hours of learning and talking to people can move a lot faster than 40 hours pushing papers.

I loved my retail job(Gap), even when I was working 50 hours around the holidays and my legs were sore. Hated a part time data entry job where I was staring at a monitor for just 6 hours, 4 days a week.

It sounds more fun, and I'll be earning more have better career options

Post: #83

(01-03-2015 04:54 PM)MrMagoo Wrote:  

(07-10-2014 10:55 PM)Cobra Wrote:  Well 60+ hours at a Big 4 office is different from 60+ at a desk in Corporate. In the Big 4, you're spending those 60 hours talking to experienced people and learning how to socially interact in addition to learning about their big ass business. You're also surrounded by hot girls in the office on Saturday mornings (since you have to come in for the most part) that haven't been banged since they were also working 60+ hours. You work hard and play hard at the Big 4 but at Corporate you may work hard but end up playing with your Manager's kids on the weekends.

Thank you.
I have to say, I think you've sold me on going to the Big 4. I hate working long hours, so I thought I would rather have a good work/life balance. But I had never considered this perspective.
I wanted to do Audit too, eventually hoping to move on to financial consulting. Exactly for the social reasons you mentioned.
Yet somehow, I just always thought dread when I considered 60 hour weeks.
I wasn't thinking about how 60 hours of learning and talking to people can move a lot faster than 40 hours pushing papers.

I loved my retail job(Gap), even when I was working 50 hours around the holidays and my legs were sore. Hated a part time data entry job where I was staring at a monitor for just 6 hours, 4 days a week.

It sounds more fun, and I'll be earning more have better career options

It will feel like a grind, but eventually you will settle in. Going public accounting is the best way to start your career.

Post: #84

Thanks for posting this great information. I'm currently employed as an engineer but also have a commerce degree majoring in accounting. My question is, I have not had much exposure to accounting outside the classroom. I'm interested in learning and working to gain skills and experience even for free (married to a millionaire so money no issue) as I always loved studying it at uni. Is it possible to work for these firms in this way or am I better off faking through the whole process and quitting after 6 months.

Post: #85

Quote:Dude B flirted with one of the recruiters that came to his school. He had a lower GPA but was in a social frat as well as a business frat (e.g. Beta Alpha Psi). He got an internship at the Big 4. At the end of the internship, the Big 4 took him to Disneyworld for a "Leadership Conference" (Yeah...). Over there, he fucked some Big 4 girls from Eastern Europe since it was an "International" Internship Conference. He didn't fuck up the internship and laughed off all of the pranks his audit teams played on him. So he got a job offer and took it. He spends 6 years auditing Playboy, while going to awesome lunches and dinners and hanging around Playboy execs. In 5 years, he was managing most portions of the Playboy audit for the Big 4. He fucked some of the hotter girls at the Big 4 that he gamed at the Happy Hours and social events that he didn't pay for. He also kept in touch with every single person he worked for and with. He knew the Company's financial situation better than the Controller did. At the 6 year mark, he was being highly sought out by larger companies in the area. His phone rang off the hook from recruiters trying to place him that he had to tell a lot of them to fuck off. Remember that position I told you about that Dude A applied for. They interviewed Dude B and saw that he was being pursued by other big firms. So..Well, Dude B got it. And guess who the hiring manager was? One of the guys he worked for as an intern that played pranks on him every day. The hiring manager said that he really liked working with Dude B back in the day. Oh and you know there are parties at the Playboy mansion, like the ones where Hugh goes all out? He got to go there when he was on the Big 4 team of Playboy. This scenario was "inspired" by many a true story, of course certain details changed to protect the innocent.

Hey Cobra, when were these similar events happening? I ask this because nowadays, even looking at a girl can have HR up your ass for "sexual harassment." How did you or your friend avoid the wrath of HR?

Post: #86

I wish I had seen this when I was in school. I'm still very young and have ideas about hopefully going into international accounting in the future, but is this stuff essentially moot for someone too far out of school and lacking the experience?

Post: #87

I"m back. Unfortunately I have a lot on my plate so replying to these questions hasn't been easy as I like to give it some thought first too.

(01-04-2015 06:01 AM)stevoaus Wrote:  Thanks for posting this great information. I'm currently employed as an engineer but also have a commerce degree majoring in accounting. My question is, I have not had much exposure to accounting outside the classroom. I'm interested in learning and working to gain skills and experience even for free (married to a millionaire so money no issue) as I always loved studying it at uni. Is it possible to work for these firms in this way or am I better off faking through the whole process and quitting after 6 months.

Depends on what type of skills you're looking for. Technical or Social? Big 4 gives you both, albeit it is social skills and game that make you successful. And that requires commitment as well which may be tough for you to provide since you are already in a well off place. If you want the technical skills instead, you can easily speak with a local CPA firm and do an internship to gain the skills.

I mean, you are basically prioritizing your career over your life joining the Big 4 and I'm not sure you want to do that.

(01-04-2015 04:49 PM)neocrummer Wrote:  Hey Cobra, when were these similar events happening? I ask this because nowadays, even looking at a girl can have HR up your ass for "sexual harassment." How did you or your friend avoid the wrath of HR?

I think you're reading too much into the media hype with regards to HR. There are many guys with game that circumvent the "sexual harassment" monster. Let's just keep in mind that the Big 4 is a "project based" environment, meaning you rarely work with peers consistently. If a girl started the same year as you, then you can game her at "office" social events and also get some while she is also working late on another client engagement the same night. Maybe you can compare notes, or more . HR becomes more of an issue when there are many years of experience between you and/or same project you're both on. If it's both, it can fuck you up real well. So, it's beneficial to see the context of how you game in that environment.

(01-04-2015 05:13 PM)Rang off the Pipe Wrote:  I wish I had seen this when I was in school. I'm still very young and have ideas about hopefully going into international accounting in the future, but is this stuff essentially moot for someone too far out of school and lacking the experience?

No, it's not moot. You can still take the route, just understand that you will be in a different crowd (age and experience wise) so it will be good for you to "dumb" down or in other words, learn to be more social with a different crowd. If you can do that effectively, it can be fantastic.

As long as you keep your GPA up, join the campus business groups, and go to a good school, you can get into the Big 4 or a large corporation regardless of age or experience factor. If you do have experience in another field though, it actually should help you as long as you do the other stuff correctly.

But again, be ready to prioritize your work more than your life. That's the trade off.

Post: #88

It's also worth pointing out that finance jobs are now fairly "uncool" with millenials, the most competitive of whom are lining up to take jobs with large tech companies.....and as we all know on here, if something is uncool with SWPL types it's probably a pretty good way to earn a living.

I will also second going with the Big 4 firms. Quite frankly, you're going to work your ass off for those high salary figures anyway. Go take a look in the Oil threads: those guys work 18 hour days while they are on the job.

There's a more in depth discussion on this specific forum: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/i-...lease-help

Short version: Working Big 4 can be a good start if you're dedicated, as most of their employees go on to do fairly well. The downside is that it's never going to pay as well as Investment Banking roles will. It's a considerably less risky career path than other financial services jobs(CPA's can always get some job somewhere), but the tradeoff is in more repetitive work and considerably poorer exit opportunities.

Post: #89

Now I'm actually really curious about international accounting after looking into it more. I already have the business and economics background, but I've got a serious gap in accounting knowledge that I want to make up. Should I just find a school with accounting courses and go from there, or do I need to do more?

Post: #90

(01-11-2015 05:06 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  Short version: Working Big 4 can be a good start if you're dedicated, as most of their employees go on to do fairly well. The downside is that it's never going to pay as well as Investment Banking roles will. It's a considerably less risky career path than other financial services jobs(CPA's can always get some job somewhere), but the tradeoff is in more repetitive work and considerably poorer exit opportunities.

Yes, but the term "poorer" is totally relative as a significant amount of senior Corporate management of larger corporations is composed of Big 4 alumni in the finance world. So the exit opportunities I would say, are tremendous. The investment banking (financial services) happens to have machinery and components that are so different that it's almost a completely separate industry in itself. So yes, from an economic standpoint, of course the exit opportunities will be poorer. It would be somewhat akin to comparing exit opportunities for a nurse to ones for a medical doctor or construction expert to engineer. Not too fair from my perspective.

(01-16-2015 11:10 AM)Rang off the Pipe Wrote:  Now I'm actually really curious about international accounting after looking into it more. I already have the business and economics background, but I've got a serious gap in accounting knowledge that I want to make up. Should I just find a school with accounting courses and go from there, or do I need to do more?

But firstly, are you looking into Finance or Accounting? It sounds like you have your heart set on Accounting but I can't tell if you know what you truly want. Remember that if your goal is to get into the mid-senior level management of a large corporation, the only way Accounting can be useful is if you start at a Big 4 firm. If not, Corporate finance at a large firm is also an option. The latter would not require an accounting degree. Doing strictly Accounting in a large Corporation can pigeonhole you unless you slowly transition into finance roles as you develop your career. This requires careful movement between the management circles within the corporations and in turn requires some social skill and diplomatic ability. So why not start with Corporate Finance first if you already have a business background instead of spending a more than marginal effort to be an accountant. Without knowing the full story, I almost want to recommend you get into a decent MBA program with a finance focus at an institution that has a strong career center and career connections (e.g. business frats).

Example: A friend of mine was a Finance major. He got into GE's management rotation program. He learned all the accounting he needed there and went into a higher level finance role there. I do see him as having the potential to become a business unit CFO there at the very least.

Post: #91

(01-18-2015 02:07 AM)Cobra Wrote:  But firstly, are you looking into Finance or Accounting? It sounds like you have your heart set on Accounting but I can't tell if you know what you truly want. Remember that if your goal is to get into the mid-senior level management of a large corporation, the only way Accounting can be useful is if you start at a Big 4 firm. If not, Corporate finance at a large firm is also an option. The latter would not require an accounting degree. Doing strictly Accounting in a large Corporation can pigeonhole you unless you slowly transition into finance roles as you develop your career. This requires careful movement between the management circles within the corporations and in turn requires some social skill and diplomatic ability. So why not start with Corporate Finance first if you already have a business background instead of spending a more than marginal effort to be an accountant. Without knowing the full story, I almost want to recommend you get into a decent MBA program with a finance focus at an institution that has a strong career center and career connections (e.g. business frats).

Example: A friend of mine was a Finance major. He got into GE's management rotation program. He learned all the accounting he needed there and went into a higher level finance role there. I do see him as having the potential to become a business unit CFO there at the very least.

I guess I should've clarified. The background is purely academic, with no work experience, much of that being for reasons I won't get into here. I'm frankly more interested in a finance-type career down the road and what you're suggesting seems like a better idea than purely going the M.Acc route and trying for a Big 4 firm. I'm hoping my networks can come through in the next few months for me, since I'll have to wait a while before I can even apply to any post-grad programs that start in the fall (most of them).

Post: #92

^^^Got it. Go for an MBA then man. You can still get into the Big 4 that way. I may need to do a sheet on things you can do in the Big 4 aside from Audit and Tax.

For example, people with strong Finance backgrounds work on Valuation teams and Process improvement teams in the Big 4. Others get into Hedge Funds, investment banking etc outside of the Big 4. In the middle are corporate analysts that can eventually get into a "Financial Planning & Analysis" role,

No accounting necessary for any of the above. It just happens to be the primary focus of the Big 4, hence easier to get into (relative to other teams/groups) and has larger numbers (of people serving) hence giving you the ability to expand into a larger network.

Post: #93

How reasonable is it to move from one region of the country to another?
I'm planning to finish school near Atlanta, and I guess that's where I'll get my first accounting job. But I don't see myself living in Georgia forever. I still have time to transfer out, as my Junior year won't start until next semester.

I like the Midwest and the West. Really love Chicago, Indy and Salt Lake. But I've heard that Chicago and Salt Lake are a bit insular for big cities(not specifically related to accounting). Do you have any insights on regional prospects and moving?

Post: #94

(01-04-2015 04:49 PM)neocrummer Wrote:  Hey Cobra, when were these similar events happening? I ask this because nowadays, even looking at a girl can have HR up your ass for "sexual harassment." How did you or your friend avoid the wrath of HR?

If one has a girl running to HR that can only mean one has bad game.

It's similar to girls telling dudes with bad game that they're creepy and getting banged by guys with good game.

Post: #95

I'm 31 years old with a BA degree. I want to get an MBA but have thought about getting a master's in accounting instead. My undergrad GPA is shit and I've been working as an independent contractor doing paralegal type work which is all remote and allows me to live abroad.

However, I feel like I need to get my shit together. Here are my questions:

1. Do you think if I busted my ass and took pre-requisites at a community college I could get into a decent master's program at a reputable school?

2. Is 31 too old for entry level at a Big 4?

3. Does my low undergrad GPA in PolySci matter is I have a master's degree?

Any other info. is helpful.

Post: #96

(02-12-2015 07:18 AM)mrbiggs Wrote:  I'm 31 years old with a BA degree. I want to get an MBA but have thought about getting a master's in accounting instead. My undergrad GPA is shit and I've been working as an independent contractor doing paralegal type work which is all remote and allows me to live abroad.

However, I feel like I need to get my shit together. Here are my questions:

1. Do you think if I busted my ass and took pre-requisites at a community college I could get into a decent master's program at a reputable school?

2. Is 31 too old for entry level at a Big 4?

3. Does my low undergrad GPA in PolySci matter is I have a master's degree?

Any other info. is helpful.

1. Pre-reqs are pre-reqs anywhere BUT that being said, the perception of where these pre-reqs came from can fuck you over.it's easy to find out if you can get into a Master's program at a reputable school. Give them a call or email them. Troll the fuck out of them for information as to "what it takes."

Truth is that some young undergrad with a 4.0 gpa at a good school is going to have a better chance than you. So the cost of getting into a good program is going to be the time it takes for you to "gather information" from the school you want to go to. I know for a fact that the SUNY system in New York will take master's candidates that have pre-requisites met within their system of community colleges or undergrads.

Is money an issue? Meaning can you pay a bit extra to get the credits from the same school as the master's program. This will be extremely useful in the sense that you are then putting yourself on top of the list if you can get involved in the school's Accounting department and "game" the staff there.

2. 31 is not too old on the surface. However, keep in mind that you WILL be more mature than the existing crowd. You absolutely CANNOT afford to keep to yourself even if the rest of your co-workers seem immature and dumb. You kind of have to bring yourself down to their level and be the "cool" older guy with experience. If you stay away from social events and shit, it can cost you. I've covered it above in the data sheet but want to reiterate that because it's important.

At the same time, do not expect to have any type of accelerated growth in the Big 4 just because you are more "mature." That shit does not matter. The accelerated promotions go to people that get caught up in a shitshow and shovel their way out, seek out a shit show, or are very socially capable and/or a combination of more than one of these. Another words, it has nothing to do with your past experiences or your maturity as a well traveled man UNLESS you are able to your experiences in the former categories I mentioned. Trust me that's tough when you're hanging around barely college age people that have no life experience.

3. It doesn't matter as long as you don't draw attention to it. If they ask, you just say that you decided to do Accounting because of xxx reason. Remember that xxx reason needs to be real compelling. That's all. Don't draw attention to it on your resume, and don't draw attention to it during conversations and interviews/meetings. Leave it behind you.

If you want to PM me with more specific details, I'm more than happy to expand on any of these responses.

In return, I ask that any or all of you post more on the forum and add some value from your own lives, game or not. I see way too many people that I respond to here that kind of just lurk or post when they need something. Give me at least one thread, or even one post or even 1 approach in the game section guys. It's not much to ask to give back to this forum.

Post: #97

Thanks for the information Cobra. I'm in a trade right now in Alberta. For the past month or so I've been thinking about finishing my bachelor's and getting my CPA. But by the time I finish my bachelor's I'll be 29. The big 4 are obviously out of the question. But I'm thinking of starting out in the industry. Even then, I don't know if my age will be a factor. If there are Canadian members in the accounting trade reading this, please drop some info.

Financially I'd be taking a massive hit in the first few years. Lots to think about.

Edit: just read the last post before mine where you covered the age issue. Interesting. I thought by 29 I didn't even have a chance of starting in the industry, let alone the big 4.

Post: #98

I'm 23 years old and I graduated with a Bachelor's in accounting (3.3 cumulative GPA and 3.5 in the field). Currently, it has almost been two years since I graduated from the field. In all honesty, if I had to do college all over again I would veer away from accounting.

The job prospects are really limited and the work can be really mundane and boring. After graduating I spent countless hours sending in resumes and applications with very little to show for it - except 3 interviews. The interviews were with big corporations, non-profits, and one public accounting firm.

After many months of job searching I finally settled with a job that is in the IT field. Luckily, they took a chance on me in spite of my lack of knowledge in the field.

As of right now, I've been reluctantly filling out applications in the hopes that I land at least a 35k a year job. In the meantime, I've just been saving money living with my parents in order to build up my pocketbook.

My passion in the field is nil and I'm completely thinking about giving up and pursuing a different line of work. I've got friends that work in the lab doing testing. One of my friends got a job in accounting and he is currently doing biology work.

One of the friends I graduated with in accounting decided to forgo the field altogether. He too couldn't get a job in the field, in spite of being probably the smartest and most charismatic of all my classmates.

Since he decided to quit the accounting field, things couldn't be better for him. He currently resides in Sin City making lots of money day trading. A normal day for him is two hours, and he spends a good portion of his time eyeing dimes by the poolside.

Moral of the story: forge your own path and don't be dissuaded by job employers rejecting your applications. A good majority of HR types are complete schlubs or ditzes.

Post: #99

(02-15-2015 07:37 PM)Nima Wrote:  Edit: just read the last post before mine where you covered the age issue. Interesting. I thought by 29 I didn't even have a chance of starting in the industry, let alone the big 4.

Not at all, some of the best guys in my graduate intake in one of the big 4 were in their late 20s and early 30s. They got promoted much faster than the rest of the batch. Age won't hold you back if you have the right attitude and work ethic.

Post: #100

Lot of you asked "what else you can do at the Big 4 aside from Accounting." Aside from the fact that this is blatant marketing, here is a linke for Ernst & Young that still gives you an idea of what else you top performers in other fields could be doing. This way you don't have to dig through a bunch of crap. This marketing part of their recruiting effort.

Just to reiterate. I am NOT promoting this firm. There are similar programs at ALL the Big 4. And this is not for everyone as the factors in my data sheet still apply. Just informational because I can't cleanly copy/paste any of this shit.

http://exceptionaley.com/imagine/see-you...#questions