Post: #1

This is a question I'm asked frequently. "What's the healthiest way to cook such-and-such?"

There is no one method, it's not that simple. In MOST cases, eating raw vegetables and fruit will give you the greatest nutritional payload, but even that statement has many exceptions, and I'm by no means a proponent of the raw foods diet. There's an excellent article here: http://www.eufic.org/article/en/artid/Nu...lity-food/

However, if you are going to cook your food (and you should) there is a basic criteria to follow concerning bioavailability: The food should cook in as little liquid as possible, and as quickly as possible. Many nutrients are water soluble, which you lose during blanching (boiling). Many nutrients are destroyed under prolonged, high-heat cooking, like braising or crockpot cooking.

What cooks food in very little liquid, and cooks it quickly? The microwave.

Microwaves work by emitting radio waves at a set frequency that agitate water molecules in food. They do this very efficiently and quickly, so the food literally steams in its own water content. This produces pretty gross results with meat (steamed meat?) but is a fantastic method of cooking vegetables. There's these hippy-dippy myths that microwaves somehow irradiate food or destroy nutrients, which is 100% false. There is growing support for cooking vegetables in microwaves, and guess which piece of equipment gets a heavy workout in Michelin 3-star kitchens? The microwave oven.

Try this: Microwave some diced apple, peel and all, with a little sugar, salt, and butter in the microwave. Zap it for 5 minutes or until completely soft, and then blend it. I promise you it's the best applesauce you've ever tasted. The texture of traditional applesauce, but with that tangy freshness that is preserved because of the fast cooking time.

For tonight I'm cooking 5-spice rubbed pork chops with charred broccolini and shitake mushrooms, black rice, and a ginger carrot puree. I'm making the carrot puree by microwaving the carrots with ginger and butter just until tender and then mashing through a food mill. By pureeing the carrots, cooking them in a microwave, and cooking them with fat, I'm getting the greatest nutritional payload from the carotenoids than any other method, even eating them raw, not to mention a very tasty side dish for my dinner tonight.

Forget the bad rap that microwaves have gotten and experiment for yourself. Best used for vegetables that you want to fully cook, especially foods that you intend to puree.

Post: #2

Are frozen vegetables as good as fresh? Nutrient wise. I don't care about taste.

Post: #3

Just toss fruits and vegetables in the blender and drink them. Cook your steaks medium rare. What more do you need?

Post: #4

cooking makes food a bit easier to digest from experience. I love microwaving broccoli and green beans. Steamed broccoli is a similar taste but takes longer and a bit more dangerous due to the steam if your not paying attention.

Post: #5

Interesting point about the microwave.

Microwave excepted, I read that the pressure cooker minimizes micronutrient loss for the same reason - although pressure cookers are at a higher temperature than steaming or boiling water, the dramatic reduction in cooking times delivers vegetables that are more nutritious than their steamed or boiled counterparts. Plus you can let the PC cool off to let the steam condense, redepositing the micronutrients back onto the food or into the pot's water.

Not that I fully understand this study, but the abstract seems to say that microwaves are on a par with pressure cookers for nutrient retention in the food studied: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.11...x/abstract
Looks like my mistrust of microwaves was misplaced.

Post: #6

Veloce,

Thanks for sharing as always.

Few questions regarding microwave cooking:

1. Does the power setting on the microwave matter? Do you usually nuke them on the highest setting?

2. Do you cover the items when you do cook them, or partially cover? They tend to dry up real fast if left uncovered, right?

Reading your post on an empty stomach has just made me decide what to cook tomorrow haha...

Post: #7

I've always heard that steaming vegetables was the best way to cook them because it denatures the nutrients the least.

Post: #8

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articl...zards.aspx
http://www.mercola.com/article/microwave/hazards2.htm
http://www.health-science.com/microwave_hazards.html
http://www.zentrum-der-gesundheit.de/mikrowelle.html - German

There are way more articles on microwaves on the sites incl. links to studies.

The biggest dangers of microwaves are not even the radiation leakage.

It's the way the microwave works:

- it essentially changes the molecular structure of nutrients making it highly toxic to us






There were some big studies done in Switzerland.

Also the US army supposedly did a test since they wanted to cook all food via microwave making it faster and easier for the troops. After having eating close to 100% of the food from a microwave most of the young men got sick and they had to close the test before the month was over. Their health deteriorated incredibly fast - they would have been better off if they did a fast.

Microwaves are great - for sterilizing non-metal-stuff in your home - kills off everything.

Also I have talked to some people with superior taste-buds - I am non of them. They told me that they taste the difference which is also a sign that something happens to the food, since the very same people told me that they don't taste pre-frozen food differences.

Post: #9

Much more expensive than a microwave, but much tastier too is a high power (3500W @ 220Volts) induction wok. Cooks quite fast. Seals moisture in.

Use well cooked food processor grated and optionally also chopped celery root as an alternative to very high carbohydrate rice.

Post: #10

(02-09-2015 03:54 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articl...zards.aspx
http://www.mercola.com/article/microwave/hazards2.htm
http://www.health-science.com/microwave_hazards.html
http://www.zentrum-der-gesundheit.de/mikrowelle.html - German

There are way more articles on microwaves on the sites incl. links to studies.

The biggest dangers of microwaves are not even the radiation leakage.

It's the way the microwave works:

- it essentially changes the molecular structure of nutrients making it highly toxic to us

The amount of radiation "leaked" from a microwave is negligible. Getting X-rays taken is far more harmful and risky.

Microwaves "changing the molecular structure" is one of the classic myths. There is no peer-reviewed scientific literature or studies that prove this.

Most of the anecdotes around microwave cooking are the classic stories about microwaved human blood killing a patient, or a mother's breast milk having drastically reduced B vitamins when heated with a microwave.

Newsflash: cooking food destroys many nutrients and drastically alters the chemistry of the food, whether using a microwave or not. If you heated blood to unsafe levels in a double boiler, that would also kill a patient. Just turns out the dumbshit nurse didn't understand the heating power of a microwave.

In some cases, like with carotenoids or lycopenes, cooking, especially with a microwave, increases the bioavailability. In other cases, like cooking raw dairy, you destroy healthy bacteria and certain nutrients. You'll find studies online showing that microwaves destroy some nutrients in 6 minutes which would normally take 40 minutes in conventional cooking methods; this is only a testament to the efficiency with which microwaves heat the water content in food.

My OP specifies to cooking vegetables only, not warming breast milk or blood for a transfusion. To equate those stories with using a microwave to cook food is just silly.

There's all sorts of funny paranoia about microwaves...The nazis invented it! Banned from Russia! plants watered with microwaved water die weeks later! It all reeks of unsubstantiated rhetoric from "modern health experts" that very often have an agenda of their own.

And that story about plants dying from microwaved water turned out to be a hoax anyway.

Post: #11

Comeon, threads like these are eye rollers.

Enjoy your food. You eat every day of your life --- why does it always have to be about health/fitness. This is an American problem. Europeans don't think this way about food.

Microwaved food sucks. I don't even own one. If I have to reheat leftovers, I use my skillet or a pan in the oven.

Post: #12

(02-08-2015 10:19 PM)Menace Wrote:  Are frozen vegetables as good as fresh? Nutrient wise. I don't care about taste.

In some cases better.

The process of frozen pea production is insanely efficient in preserving flavor and nutrient content. I'll take frozen peas over the farmer's market any day. Why? The peas sold at a farmer's market, much less a grocery store, are already a few days old. Farmers do not sell produce the same day it's picked. It's at least 24 hours old, and likely even older. The minute that peas are picked, they degrade in flavor very quickly. The frozen peas you get at the supermarket are frozen just hours after being picked. It's highly likely that they are sweeter, better tasting, and more nutritious than fresh peas from a farmer's market, no matter how organic or expensive they are.

The exception to this is growing your own. Nothing is more glorious than perfectly sun-ripened pea pods picked from the vine and eaten raw in the middle of spring. It's like candy. But that is a luxury reserved for those with an organic farm in their backyard. If you've got a small plot of dirt, I would highly recommend dabbling in gardening. But for everyone else, go for the frozen veggies. They're legit.

Regarding cooking in a microwave, I cook in a glass bowl covered with a damp paper towel. I'm not into heating plastic.

Post: #13

(02-09-2015 02:56 PM)lycosidae Wrote:  Comeon, threads like these are eye rollers.

Enjoy your food. You eat every day of your life --- why does it always have to be about health/fitness. This is an American problem. Europeans don't think this way about food.

Microwaved food sucks. I don't even own one. If I have to reheat leftovers, I use my skillet or a pan in the oven.

Did you even read my OP?

Europeans don't think this way about food, so what? Is that automatically better? Do you know how many bistros in Paris are serving food being made in a microwave from Tunisian immigrants? Absolute garbage bistro cooking with a "cheap" lunch going for 12 Euro...gimme a break.

Microwaved food sucks because people don't know how to use them or just use them for heating up frozen entrees or old pizza. Well guess what, microwaved entrees and old pizza suck. BTW, your glorious European food culture is one of the fastest growing markets for frozen and processed food, so way to glorify that.

I could also say fried food sucks, baked food sucks, boiled food sucks, because people don't understand those cooking methods either. You provide zero contribution to the thread, and if you don't like it, move onto the next one.

Post: #14

(02-09-2015 02:45 PM)Veloce Wrote:  ...
There's all sorts of funny paranoia about microwaves...The nazis invented it! Banned from Russia! plants watered with microwaved water die weeks later! It all reeks of unsubstantiated rhetoric from "modern health experts" that very often have an agenda of their own.

And that story about plants dying from microwaved water turned out to be a hoax anyway.

What agendas would those scientists have to have in order to satisfy your perception? Peer reviewed = in line with the current money power.

There is no agenda from the other side. I've used Microwaves in the past, but now know enough to not trust authorities blindly on anything. The studies published are substantial enough in my mind to abstain from microwaves except when I want to kill all germs on my wooden cooking utensils.

If I am wrong, then I have not missed out on anything. If I am right, then it's highly toxic and can be even carcinogenic long-term. Looking how cancer is exploding in recent years in combination with plenty of degenerative diseases then it is interesting how one can justify adding more to the toxic load?

Oh - and it's not the environment - water and air is cleaner than 30 years ago - EPA studies prove it. Food however has become much more toxic. Look - by all means - do what feels right - I put out the info and if someone is interested he can check the stuff out. Our elite and even our mainstream science do not have our best interests in mind in any matter at all. It helps to find all-around information and then make up your mind.

By the way - if it's as toxic as that you can easily check it out by eating 100% of your food in microwave cooked form. I would be interested how you feel after 2 weeks or more. But no offense here - it's just my 2 cents.

It's clear that you are into healthy nutrition which is superior to 95% of the population in close to any country - chances are that if you eat a few meals from the microwave, you will still be more healthy than the average American.

Post: #15

(02-09-2015 03:01 PM)Veloce Wrote:  

(02-09-2015 02:56 PM)lycosidae Wrote:  Comeon, threads like these are eye rollers.

Enjoy your food. You eat every day of your life --- why does it always have to be about health/fitness. This is an American problem. Europeans don't think this way about food.

Microwaved food sucks. I don't even own one. If I have to reheat leftovers, I use my skillet or a pan in the oven.

Did you even read my OP?

Europeans don't think this way about food, so what? Is that automatically better? Do you know how many bistros in Paris are serving food being made in a microwave from Tunisian immigrants? Absolute garbage bistro cooking with a "cheap" lunch going for 12 Euro...gimme a break.

Microwaved food sucks because people don't know how to use them or just use them for heating up frozen entrees or old pizza. Well guess what, microwaved entrees and old pizza suck. BTW, your glorious European food culture is one of the fastest growing markets for frozen and processed food, so way to glorify that.

I could also say fried food sucks, baked food sucks, boiled food sucks, because people don't understand those cooking methods either. You provide zero contribution to the thread, and if you don't like it, move onto the next one.

Why is it that everyone here freely calls out terrible American women, but when American culture is criticized, all of a sudden we're all fervent, pro-capitalist nationalists who hate Europe? I call bullshit on that. You can't separate the two. Europe is better than America in just about every cultural category.

All I know is ever since the invention of the microwave, McDonalds, and modern food processing techniques, Americans have gotten fatter. You're going to find a lot more healthy people in the slow food movement (slow, traditional cooking techniques) than in the "lazy bachelor" camp who nitpick about the volume of micro nutrients in their microwaved vegetables. I'm contributing to this thread by telling everyone not to waste their time talking about this.

I'm pretty sure every example you gave here is Americanized food culture being imported by immigrants or companies into Europe, and yeah it's a sad thing - but a lot of Europeans are against it. If you've ever met a French person, you know they revere food because its an extension of their culture. And if you can't see the difference between American culture and European food culture, I feel sorry for you -- you're missing out on something that's so much more refined. Microwaves come from no culinary tradition whatsoever. It's not a "cooking method", it's a tool used to heat up food quickly, which is for convenience -- there's no traditional recipe that requires a microwave. There's no food that tastes better microwaved than cooked some other technique. Anyone who knows food knows that. Microwaves are good for heating up water quickly, and that's about it.

You provide zero contribution to the improvement of American culture by promoting the use of microwaves, so I'm going to call you out on that - tit for tat. Europe sucks right now because its emulating America. It makes no sense to promote that.

Post: #16

(02-09-2015 04:26 PM)lycosidae Wrote:  Why is it that everyone here freely calls out terrible American women, but when American culture is criticized, all of a sudden we're all fervent, pro-capitalist nationalists who hate Europe? I call bullshit on that. You can't separate the two. Europe is better than America in just about every cultural category.

Where did this thread turn into criticizing American culture and bashing on Europe? And if Europe is "better than America" then why do Europeans love American culture? American music, American movies, and American food? Europeans can't line up fast enough for the next burger joint. 2 of the hottest chefs in Paris right now are American. French fine dining has been in decline for the past decade and American fine dining has skyrocketed to some of the best in the world. This "America vs. Europe" nonsense didn't exist in this thread until you created it, but if you want to go there I'm game. Nowhere did I extoll the virtues of American culture or claim that we're better than Europe, but if you want to get in that argument then I've got plenty of examples and life experience to draw from.

Quote:All I know is ever since the invention of the microwave, McDonalds, and modern food processing techniques, Americans have gotten fatter. You're going to find a lot more healthy people in the slow food movement (slow, traditional cooking techniques) than in the "lazy bachelor" camp who nitpick about the volume of micro nutrients in their microwaved vegetables. I'm contributing to this thread by telling everyone not to waste their time talking about this.

I'm a member of Slow Food International. Again, what about my OP even remotely hints at cooking all of your food in the microwave? Where did I say that? Who are you to tell people not to talk about this? My knowledge comes from over a decade as a professional chef and being on the forefront of effective cooking techniques. What are your credentials? Would you go on a game thread started by Roosh and tell everyone that the thread is a waste of time?

Quote:I'm pretty sure every example you gave here is Americanized food culture being imported by immigrants or companies into Europe, and yeah it's a sad thing - but a lot of Europeans are against it. If you've ever met a French person, you know they revere food because its an extension of their culture. And if you can't see the difference between American culture and European food culture, I feel sorry for you -- you're missing out on something that's so much more refined. Microwaves come from no culinary tradition whatsoever. It's not a "cooking method", it's a tool used to heat up food quickly, which is for convenience -- there's no traditional recipe that requires a microwave. There's no food that tastes better microwaved than cooked some other technique. Anyone who knows food knows that. Microwaves are good for heating up water quickly, and that's about it.

Again, pure ignorance speaking. A lot of Europeans are against any change to their food culture but that is a double-edged sword. On one hand you've got fairly strict dogma as to what constitutes "Ragu Bolognese" and "Pizza Napoletana" and on the other hand you've got Italians that don't want that food anymore. Gluten free pasta is huge in Italy right now. The French have their heads up their asses when it comes to their food. They rode their reputation as having some of the best food in the world for decades and to this day your average Frenchman will proudly declare, "I know good food. I am French." Well guess what, there's a whole lot of hack cooking in France right now and they're having a bit of an identity crisis. I love traditional French food but it won't be around much longer because the younger generation thinks it's too heavy and rich.

Quote:You provide zero contribution to the improvement of American culture by promoting the use of microwaves, so I'm going to call you out on that - tit for tat. Europe sucks right now because its emulating America. It makes no sense to promote that.

You're not in a position to assert that. The notion of "traditional" cooking is a farce. The story of cooking, and culture in general, is a story of change. There's this idiotic notion of "traditional" cooking that conjures images of cooking with a wood-fired cast iron stove like it's the 1800s again, when people would develop respiratory problems and die 20 years younger from it because of improper ventilation while burning fossil fuels just to cook a meal. The microwave is a kitchen tool. If you've come to your own conclusions like Zelcorpion, hey, I can respect that, not everyone has to agree with me. I'm here to provide information to the rest of the forum and if people get some benefit from my posts, great. But your statements in this thread are horribly misinformed. In any modern restaurant kitchen you're going to see induction burners, combi-ovens, C-Vap ovens, sous vide cooking, PacoJets, liquid nitrogen, Accusteam flat tops, rotovaps, centrifuges, ceramic plated broilers, microwaves, pressure cookers, pressure fryers...I could go on forever. Which of those are "traditional" cooking techniques? I'm talking the top restaurants in the world, in France, Germany, Denmark, Japan, U.S., Italy, where people make pilgrimages and reserve months in advance to eat at these temples of gastronomy.

Post: #17

My grandmother died at age 97. Never used a microwave. Never really cared about the "nutritional value" of brocolli. I eat for taste. If shit in microwave tastes better than in the pan, then I'll do it.

BTW:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12577584
Microwave-oven technology has been improved by the use of low power. With the utilization of low-power techniques, studies showed equal or better retention of nutrients for microwave, as compared with conventional, reheated foods for thiamin, riboflavin, pyridoxine, folacin, and ascorbic acid. Beef roasts microwaved at "simmer" were comparable with conventionally cooked roasts in sensory quality, while vegetables cooked by an institutional (1,150 w) microwave oven were superior to those cooked in a domestic (550 w) microwave oven. Microwave-cooked bacon had lower levels of nitrosamines than conventionally cooked bacon; however, the use of a new alpha-tocopherol coating system has been found to be a safe N-nitrosamine inhibitor regardless of cooking method used.

You can find more studies in pubmed.

Post: #18

The one thing that I really appreciate about Veloce is how, when confronted with retarded commenters like lycosidae, he will take the time to utterly obliterate everything they say; everything they stand for. Some people will just choose to ignore the posts and continue the discussion, or just post this , but Veloce will utilize a systematic approach that not only shreds the Troll's soul, but also provides the uneducated masses like myself with lots of fantastic information!

God bless you, Veloce!!

Sincerely, a guy who also thought microwave usage causes cancer, AIDS or would lead to the growth of a mutated third eye but has had his mind blown by this thread

Post: #19

I think a lot of guys are hating on the microwave method because it fucks with their tinfoil hats.

Post: #20

(02-09-2015 07:58 PM)WesternCancer Wrote:  I think a lot of guys are hating on the microwave method because it fucks with their tinfoil hats.

LOL! Excellent double entendre.

Of all the unwise things one can do on this Earth, starting an argument with veloce about cooking has to be rather high on the list. Not that he is infallible, but the chances that a novice is right and he is wrong, given his background, are exceedingly small. Especially when your thinking is rehashed cliches.

Post: #21

What's the best meat to cook in the microwave, if any? Bacon?

Post: #22

(02-09-2015 10:29 PM)RougeNoir Wrote:  What's the best meat to cook in the microwave, if any? Bacon?

Whatever meat that goes with the nachos you're melting cheese onto.

Post: #23

(02-09-2015 10:29 PM)RougeNoir Wrote:  What's the best meat to cook in the microwave, if any? Bacon?

I normally wouldn't cook meat in a microwave, but after searching it looks like it's a pretty great way to cook bacon. The only other meat application I can think of would be making jerky.

Post: #24

(02-08-2015 07:59 PM)Veloce Wrote:  For tonight I'm cooking 5-spice rubbed pork chops with charred broccolini and shitake mushrooms, black rice, and a ginger carrot puree. I'm making the carrot puree by microwaving the carrots with ginger and butter just until tender and then mashing through a food mill. By pureeing the carrots, cooking them in a microwave, and cooking them with fat, I'm getting the greatest nutritional payload from the carotenoids than any other method, even eating them raw, not to mention a very tasty side dish for my dinner tonight.

Forget the bad rap that microwaves have gotten and experiment for yourself. Best used for vegetables that you want to fully cook, especially foods that you intend to puree.

First, that sounds amazing. I am going to try the ginger carrot puree this evening. How long do you typically microwave the carrots for?
Do you broil the broccolini and mushrooms to get the char?

Second, what is your favorite way to cook broccoli? Steaming it gets kind of old and I don't own a wok so I can't really stir fry it.

Post: #25

(02-10-2015 03:31 PM)Harvey Specter Wrote:  

(02-08-2015 07:59 PM)Veloce Wrote:  For tonight I'm cooking 5-spice rubbed pork chops with charred broccolini and shitake mushrooms, black rice, and a ginger carrot puree. I'm making the carrot puree by microwaving the carrots with ginger and butter just until tender and then mashing through a food mill. By pureeing the carrots, cooking them in a microwave, and cooking them with fat, I'm getting the greatest nutritional payload from the carotenoids than any other method, even eating them raw, not to mention a very tasty side dish for my dinner tonight.

Forget the bad rap that microwaves have gotten and experiment for yourself. Best used for vegetables that you want to fully cook, especially foods that you intend to puree.

First, that sounds amazing. I am going to try the ginger carrot puree this evening. How long do you typically microwave the carrots for?
Do you broil the broccolini and mushrooms to get the char?

Second, what is your favorite way to cook broccoli? Steaming it gets kind of old and I don't own a wok so I can't really stir fry it.

I believe it took 8 minutes for the carrots. I just kept poking them with a knife until it pierced the carrots with zero resistance.

For charred broccoli, I did a 2 part cooking process. I par-boiled them (but definitely could have microwaved them) until tender and then shocked them in ice water. I cut some shiitake mushrooms about a 1/2 inch thick. Separated the broccolini heads from the stalks, and sliced the stalks into batons.

Heated up a cast iron saute pan and put in a very small amount of rice bran oil, just barely enough to glaze the pan. Waited until smoking hot and then put the shiitake slices and broccolini in the pan, evenly spaced out so there's no crowding and steaming going on. You want a HARD sear. I let them go like this for at least a minute and then start checking the underside. When they have a deep, dark caramelization, borderline burned, I turn the pan off and toss the broccolini and mushrooms to heat them through. I add about a tablespoon of kecap manis (Indonesian sweet soy sauce) and toss to coat. It's one of my favorite ways to prepare broccolini.

This is kecap manis, I highly recommend having a bottle of this in your pantry:



It's got palm sugar in it and it's by no means healthy, but it's a secret ingredient and a little goes a long way.

And on that note, I should have disclaimed that I almost never cook purely for nutritional content. To me, good cooking is finding that balance between creating dishes that are deeply satisfying and also nutritionally complete. My go-to dinner is centered around protein, vegetables, and either rice or potato (the most easily digested starches for me). But that doesn't mean I don't indulge here and there. Pears are killer right now and there's no better use for them than in an endive salad with blue cheese, walnuts, and a champagne vinaigrette. Not the healthiest but goddamn does it satisfy.