Post: #1

Have not seen a thread on this, and this only occurred to me after I read a blog post somewhere.

Instead of starting your own online business, you find a deal and buy an existing on-line business, or bundle of businesses that are already generating revenue. Then, you "renovate them," by fixing things that you know are wrong (bad search position, or whatever; I'm not an expert at this at all).

Anyone do this, or know anything about this? How would you find sites like this?

Post: #2

See flippa.com for opportunities.

Post: #3

Bigger Pockets

I should add though that renovating and flipping is a lot of work. So don't get any ideas about get rich quick schemes. A lot of people lose their shirts because they don't think tactically and have zero experience. For whatever reason flipping attracts a lot of big talkers that can't back it up - don't believe me? check out a bigger pockets meetup group and listen to all the damn wholesalers about this deal and that deal...only to find out all their deals are in the damn ghetto.

Post: #4

(02-02-2015 08:44 PM)monster Wrote:  Bigger Pockets

I should add though that renovating and flipping is a lot of work. So don't get any ideas about get rich quick schemes. A lot of people lose their shirts because they don't think tactically and have zero experience. For whatever reason flipping attracts a lot of big talkers that can't back it up - don't believe me? check out a bigger pockets meetup group and listen to all the damn wholesalers about this deal and that deal...only to find out all their deals are in the damn ghetto.

Bigger Pockets is a great resource for all things Real Estate but he's referring to virtual flipping of websites/businesses not actual Real Estate.

Post: #5

http://www.empireflippers.com - they have a podcast about this, and their own market place
http://www.flippa.com
http://www.ecommercefuel.com - another podcast and website

Just to name a few.

Usually someone that's built niche sites successful, buys another niche site (20x monthly earnings is the suggested price, so a 200/month site gets bought for 2400.)
- adds content
- send more traffic from new sources
- collects emails from users - and then builds a product for them (electronic or physical)

Moving up the supply chain is harder, but it has greater rewards.

A fair # of guys on RVF do e-commerce, you should do a search.

WIA

Post: #6

(02-02-2015 08:58 PM)Biz Wrote:  

(02-02-2015 08:44 PM)monster Wrote:  Bigger Pockets

I should add though that renovating and flipping is a lot of work. So don't get any ideas about get rich quick schemes. A lot of people lose their shirts because they don't think tactically and have zero experience. For whatever reason flipping attracts a lot of big talkers that can't back it up - don't believe me? check out a bigger pockets meetup group and listen to all the damn wholesalers about this deal and that deal...only to find out all their deals are in the damn ghetto.

Bigger Pockets is a great resource for all things Real Estate but he's referring to virtual flipping of websites/businesses not actual Real Estate.

what the hell is virtual flipping? is that like domain parking?

Post: #7

@monster

If you have an Amazon affiliate site, a blog that reviews and promotes Amazon goods, you can make money off of commissions when readers click through and buy

AdSense is another way to monetize a site. There are more.

You then sell the money making site at a multiple of what you earn.

The person buying your site will just improve on what you did.

WIA

Post: #8

Has anyone here done this?

I looked at Flippa for quite a while trying to find affiliate and e-commerce sites to buy back in the day, but it was riddled with garbage and scams.

I think the hardest part is finding a decent site of value that is already generating income, because who would want to sell it?

Post: #9

I suspect many people, including forum members, are pretty hush hush about this because of a legitimate concern for people swooping in. Thanks for those links WIA, will check out. I guess I am more interested in providing capital and then having someone who is the equivalent of a general contractor fix up the site.

Post: #10

The vast majority of those sites (on flippa) are crap. Most of them are newer and receive their traffic and revenue from purchasing adwords. They advertise high revenues, but most of that is not sustainable unless you want to keep forking out lots of money on adwords, which takes a lot of time, experience, and skill.

Basically it looks like people with experience managing adwords campaigns start a site, quickly build up the traffic, then sell it for thousands of dollars. It seems like the intent is to simply build an artificially high-traffic site and then sell it for a quick buck. In most cases you'd probably be better off building your own site with the money you'll be spending on a flippa site.

Post: #11

Taking this to a new level, is there a way to implement a “leveraged buyout” type of strategy here? I assume banks would not lend to this type of business, but if the cash flow really is strong, I really have no idea. Perhaps it’s not feasible now, but an area for future development?

Post: #12

(02-03-2015 11:06 AM)Menace Wrote:  I suspect many people, including forum members, are pretty hush hush about this because of a legitimate concern for people swooping in. Thanks for those links WIA, will check out. I guess I am more interested in providing capital and then having someone who is the equivalent of a general contractor fix up the site.

We need to come up with original content in real life, then use the internet to capitalize. The internet if full of Millennials that can't come up with anything new, but rather just copy and paste over each other. That is why it is so dog eat dog. The real advantage we have over them is we'll actually go outside in the sunshine and do something inspiring that others would want to read about. I've got some solid ideas we can market.

Post: #13

(02-05-2015 08:38 AM)Aliblahba Wrote:  

(02-03-2015 11:06 AM)Menace Wrote:  I suspect many people, including forum members, are pretty hush hush about this because of a legitimate concern for people swooping in. Thanks for those links WIA, will check out. I guess I am more interested in providing capital and then having someone who is the equivalent of a general contractor fix up the site.

We need to come up with original content in real life, then use the internet to capitalize. The internet if full of Millennials that can't come up with anything new, but rather just copy and paste over each other. That is why it is so dog eat dog. The real advantage we have over them is we'll actually go outside in the sunshine and do something inspiring that others would want to read about. I've got some solid ideas we can market.

As do I. I've got two ideas that are potential big money makers. I've spent the last year expanding my computer skills so I can get beta versions up and testable. I still have another six months or so to go until I have the skills I need to take these idea and launch fully custom platforms enabling all the features they need to be successful.

I also have tons of smaller ideas that could be launched in a couple days. Last night I was drifting off to sleep, the time where your still conscious but can start to feel dream sequence start. Or maybe I drifted off for a minute or two. Anyways, whatever quick few seconds of a dream I had gave me an awesome idea. I jumped out of bed and wrote it on my whiteboard. Looking at it right now, you could get the entire thing up and running in a day.

I come up with new ideas all the damn time. I guess it's just a way of looking at life that not many people have. Most of them are crap and not worth the time. Some of them are possibly good. And a very few of them are potential goldmines. Soon enough, I'll have the programming skills needed. I think I've been working too hard at it, shit I have lines of code running through my dreams. Matrix style but actual programming language code as opposed to binary.

Then I'm gonna rent a mansion in the phils. It'll be open to all RVF members. We'll work-out, drink, fuck chicks, and engineer internet hustles. It'll be project hollywood, just focused on entrepreneurship and slightly on game. It'll be like a frat house for business.

Post: #14

The technical part is easy. The internet is flooded with guys that will work for pennies on the dollar. They can handle the technical aspects. We dream up the ideas in analog and have the computer guy put it in digital format.

When I was laid up last year, I came up with the format for a protected website with a SynchSpace or ShareSpace type app to brainstorm, then invest into the ideas. Once money is being made, then we can converge on a place in the Phils or DR. We can make this happen soon.

Post: #15

(02-02-2015 05:14 PM)Menace Wrote:  Have not seen a thread on this, and this only occurred to me after I read a blog post somewhere.

Instead of starting your own online business, you find a deal and buy an existing on-line business, or bundle of businesses that are already generating revenue. Then, you "renovate them," by fixing things that you know are wrong (bad search position, or whatever; I'm not an expert at this at all).

Anyone do this, or know anything about this? How would you find sites like this?

Before working online was cool this was easy money. Back then it was people who had no idea what they were doing who struck gold in the search engines, then would whack up AdSense and sell off the site for 20x monthly net. Someone with a brain could swoop in, monetise the sites properly (sometimes simply altering ad placements, others times creating products, forging relationships with affiliates/droppshippers etc), break even by month 3 then either flip again or sit on it.

These days it's incredibly hard. Especially for someone with no idea. The domain could've been slapped or the traffic is botted - they're the 2 most likely scenarios on the obvious marketplaces like Flippa. I used to have someone monitor those markets for potential acquisitions based on a set of criteria, last year we'd get about 1 possible site for every 500 or so listed. That 1 possible site would then get spammed to death with bids well over the odds - needless to say we no longer monitor those marketplaces.

It does work in some scenarios:

Vertical integration: The site offers something to add in your funnel. For example, if you had an e-commerce site selling gardening tools, then acquiring a gardening blog with 200k UVs a month and a subscriber list of 10k could work.

Horizontal integration: The site allows you to diversify your offering in a niche. For example, if you had an e-commerce site selling gardening tools, then acquiring an e-commerce site selling gardening clothes could work. You could either combine to create an authority site or keep separate and cross promote products.

Other than that, I'd recommend building your own stuff if you're starting out.

(02-02-2015 09:53 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  http://www.empireflippers.com - they have a podcast about this, and their own market place
http://www.flippa.com
http://www.ecommercefuel.com - another podcast and website

Just to name a few.

Usually someone that's built niche sites successful, buys another niche site (20x monthly earnings is the suggested price, so a 200/month site gets bought for 2400.)
- adds content
- send more traffic from new sources
- collects emails from users - and then builds a product for them (electronic or physical)

Moving up the supply chain is harder, but it has greater rewards.

A fair # of guys on RVF do e-commerce, you should do a search.

WIA

I'd be surprised if anyone is getting 20x monthly net on a niche site. 10-12x is realistic.

20x on a branded authority site - maybe. I remember when that lifed.com site went for 200k, it was painfully obvious it was someone new to the industry with money to throw around. Where is it a couple years later? Fucked. They threw up a ton more ads, killed the UX and pissed off their readers. Then got hit by a Google algorithm update (Penguin 2.0 for you online nerds). Goodbye 200k.

(02-03-2015 10:22 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  Has anyone here done this?

I looked at Flippa for quite a while trying to find affiliate and e-commerce sites to buy back in the day, but it was riddled with garbage and scams.

I think the hardest part is finding a decent site of value that is already generating income, because who would want to sell it?

The only reasons to sell on Flippa are 1) urgent cash injection needed elsewhere, or 2) it's on a slippery slope downwards and hoping to sting someone new to the industry. If you can find number 1 and no one else does, you've got a shot.

If you want to buy a site I'd advise going for those outdated sites that are ranking in the search engines then contact them directly. Get access to their analytics (sometimes they don't have any - if they don't it's easy $$$) and crunch the numbers. You can find the domain owner's information through WHOIS lookup, if it's a private registration through GoDaddy you can contact them and they'll pass on your message.

(02-05-2015 08:23 AM)nmmoooreland20 Wrote:  Taking this to a new level, is there a way to implement a “leveraged buyout” type of strategy here? I assume banks would not lend to this type of business, but if the cash flow really is strong, I really have no idea. Perhaps it’s not feasible now, but an area for future development?

They lend to umbrella companies with online portfolios. Depends how you structure the acquisition. We're UK based so not sure about the legalities in the US.

(02-05-2015 08:38 AM)Aliblahba Wrote:  We need to come up with original content in real life, then use the internet to capitalize. The internet if full of Millennials that can't come up with anything new, but rather just copy and paste over each other. That is why it is so dog eat dog. The real advantage we have over them is we'll actually go outside in the sunshine and do something inspiring that others would want to read about. I've got some solid ideas we can market.

I read your DR thread the other day. Fucking brilliant. You could package that as one of those travel/experience holidays where a group comes down and you show them around, get them in the best places, introduce them to girls etc. Do the first one for free and get some of the big YouTubers on it, filming the whole thing, for initial exposure. If these basement kids pay thousands for a bootcamp I'm sure they'd pay thousands for a holiday of a lifetime, offer payment plans if they're not ballin. Would be easy to get in the mainstream media, too. I'm not sure what the security aspect would be like and if the DR would be suitable, though.

Anyway, if you have any ideas related to online stuff PM me and I'll point you in the right direction. I'm always down for joint ventures if the project and people behind it are right, too.

(02-05-2015 09:07 AM)AntiTrace Wrote:  Then I'm gonna rent a mansion in the phils. It'll be open to all RVF members. We'll work-out, drink, fuck chicks, and engineer internet hustles. It'll be project hollywood, just focused on entrepreneurship and slightly on game. It'll be like a frat house for business.

Ha. I mentioned doing something like this in the RVF Travellers thread the other day. I'm not sure if you were serious, but I'm planning something similar around September of this year. Mastermind online group by day, fuck bitches by night. Hit me up if you were serious.

Post: #16

(02-05-2015 10:21 AM)Aliblahba Wrote:  The technical part is easy. The internet is flooded with guys that will work for pennies on the dollar. They can handle the technical aspects. We dream up the ideas in analog and have the computer guy put it in digital format.

If you are talking software, that sounds like a recipe for disaster, Ali. Very simple tasks like installing a script or wordpress, yeah.

Post: #17

(02-03-2015 11:06 AM)Menace Wrote:  I suspect many people, including forum members, are pretty hush hush about this because of a legitimate concern for people swooping in. Thanks for those links WIA, will check out. I guess I am more interested in providing capital and then having someone who is the equivalent of a general contractor fix up the site.

I agree. Been trying to figure out a good website business but no luck yet. Anyone with good experience and a proven operator should send me a pm. I am game to put a few coins in but details will need to be worked out.

Post: #18

It's a hard tossup but I think the DR would be a better location. Most of us doing business will be from the U.S., and the cost of travel/comm's is cheaper from down there. I wouldn't recommend SD, but Santiago or the North Coast are viable options for a large place to rent. Not putting the cart before the horse, but it is something to consider. Still though, you won't have to twist my arm to get me to the Phils. I'm just considering the cost and amount of distractions while we make money.

Post: #19

A legit mansion would obviously not be needed. A two-three bedroom pad would be ideal at first. Then you scale up as income increases. I like the DR idea, it's a lot easier for me to get there regularly than the Phils for now.

Post: #20

Great info Tyler. I'm interested in this because of the incredible scalability of the internet. There is a sea of money out there. Hell, maybe RVF'ers have already joined forces to make something good, but we just don't know about it.

Speaking personally, I don't want to be a blogger/writer/creator of content. It's just not my thing. I also don't necessarily want to get involved in the technical aspects of SEO, etc. I do have money I can invest, and obviously risk losing.

Ali, I agree in principle about original content. However, building an audience takes a lot of time and effort. For example, Danger & Play and Bold & Determined are not overnight successes. The person creating the content has to be doing it because they truly believe in it, not because they think they can monetize it in 2-3 years.

One good idea I heard from listening to a James Altucher podcast is the notion of leveraging existing social platforms that already have a huge membership in order to jump start your venture. For example, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn. Obviously offers of getting dudes laid in DR is not suitable for some of these areas.

Anyone I do business with, I'd have to meet in person.

Post: #21

(02-05-2015 12:08 PM)AntiTrace Wrote:  A legit mansion would obviously not be needed. A two-three bedroom pad would be ideal at first. Then you scale up as income increases. I like the DR idea, it's a lot easier for me to get there regularly than the Phils for now.

Agreed. I had thought of having a decent sized place used as a time share. Members live there that have grown fully into location independence. Others come and go when they can to bring new ideas to the table, or just to take a break and swim in poon. The advantage is coming and going into a social circle. This can be very productive.

Post: #22

I have no desire to blog. I have no problem setting up a blogging site and keeping it running. I think the bigger money is in web apps and especially subscription services. That's what I'm gearing my studies to. Anyone can throw up a wordpress site. Creating a fully functional custom web app is a lot more difficult. Hire the 5 dollar an hour guys for the first, hire professional talent or develop in house for the latter.

My plan is to build beta version of my big ideas, gain proof of concept and a user base, and then look for funding or scale as needed. It's a lot easier to get funding when you walk into a meeting with hard numbers and established customer as opposed to a PowerPoint presentation of what you hope to do

Then if the big money idea is really a big money idea, you get the cash injection and hire out to a full time professional development team and start bringing on staff

Post: #23

(02-05-2015 12:11 PM)Menace Wrote:  Great info Tyler. I'm interested in this because of the incredible scalability of the internet. There is a sea of money out there. Hell, maybe RVF'ers have already joined forces to make something good, but we just don't know about it.

Agreed. This is the first thread talking about online biz that hasn't attracted the negative Nancy's. That shit makes me want to have a meltdown. It gets no one nowhere.

(02-05-2015 12:11 PM)Menace Wrote:  Ali, I agree in principle about original content. However, building an audience takes a lot of time and effort. For example, Danger & Play and Bold & Determined are not overnight successes. The person creating the content has to be doing it because they truly believe in it, not because they think they can monetize it in 2-3 years.

2-3 years seems to be the magic number, but I understand that fronting up some capitol will fast track that. Most bloggers I believe start with little investment capitol, or are unwilling to put into the blog.

(02-05-2015 12:11 PM)Menace Wrote:  One good idea I heard from listening to a James Altucher podcast is the notion of leveraging existing social platforms that already have a huge membership in order to jump start your venture. For example, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn. Obviously offers of getting dudes laid in DR is not suitable for some of these areas.

I'm looking for a writer now to start turning my DR experience into a book, not touring guys around to get laid. I did that when I was down there and it ended up costing me money.

(02-05-2015 12:11 PM)Menace Wrote:  Anyone I do business with, I'd have to meet in person.

It might take some doing, but I think we can coerce Anti-Trace out of the basement.




   

Post: #24

(02-05-2015 12:47 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  It might take some doing, but I think we can coerce Anti-Trace out of the basement.

I just reapplied for a lost passport yesterday and I got around 1500 in free airfare to use. I'm down for a DR trip, you'd be popping my DR cherry, so make it memorable

Post: #25

(02-05-2015 12:29 PM)AntiTrace Wrote:  I have no desire to blog. I have no problem setting up a blogging site and keeping it running. I think the bigger money is in web apps and especially subscription services. That's what I'm gearing my studies to. Anyone can throw up a wordpress site. Creating a fully functional custom web app is a lot more difficult. Hire the 5 dollar an hour guys for the first, hire professional talent or develop in house for the latter.

My plan is to build beta version of my big ideas, gain proof of concept and a user base, and then look for funding or scale as needed. It's a lot easier to get funding when you walk into a meeting with hard numbers and established customer as opposed to a PowerPoint presentation of what you hope to do

Then if the big money idea is really a big money idea, you get the cash injection and hire out to a full time professional development team and start bringing on staff

Even if as a group we branch off in different directions, wouldn't is make sense to form a solid core of programmers that we could all use? Could be more cost effective.

I'm pushing for a reality show. For real.