Post: #1

Who's the Daddy? by Melanie McDonagh

Quote:It’s a wise child, they say, that knows its own father. Nowadays, however, wisdom is hardly required; DNA tests can do the job with scientific certainty. For the entire course of human history, men have nursed profound, troubling doubts about the fundamental question of whether or not they were fathers to their own children; women, by contrast, usually enjoyed a reasonable level of certainty about the matter.

Now, a cotton-wool swab with a bit of saliva, plus a small fee, less than £200, can settle the matter. At a stroke, the one thing that women had going for them has been taken away, the one respect in which they had the last laugh over their husbands and lovers. DNA tests are an anti-feminist appliance of science, a change in the balance of power between the sexes that we’ve hardly come to terms with. And that holds true even though many women have the economic potential to provide for their children themselves.

The subject has resurfaced lately, courtesy of a story in the Daily Mail, about a married television presenter who for years had been paying for the support of a child conceived, as he thought, as a result of his relationship with a writer. It seems that after meeting the child for the first time, he asked for a DNA test; it duly turned out that he was not, after all, the father. Poor child.

The next Bridget Jones movie may turn this under-discussed issue into a talking point. For those who didn’t follow the columns that took our heroine into the next stage of female angst — about being childless rather than single — the gist is that BJ becomes pregnant, but she is not entirely sure by whom, having been seeing the nice Colin Firth boyfriend, and the bad Hugh Grant one, in pretty short order. The matter could have been fruitfully ambiguous, with Bridget having a choice of fathers, but it was resolved in sordid contemporary fashion, one of the candidates being wrestled to the ground by Bridget’s girlfriends, so as to swab his inside cheek for a DNA sample. And so she found out the paternity of the baby and the most ancient game of humankind, Guess the Daddy, wasn’t played any more.

Now I can see that some men might rather welcome an end to the old-fashioned scenario whereby they find themselves held to account for the paternity of children born to girls with whom they just happen to have had sex. The actor Jude Law recently found himself in just this position, and unhesitatingly and ungallantly demanded a DNA test.

By contrast, the old situation, in which women presented men with a child, and the man either did the decent thing and offered support, or made a run for it, allowed women a certain leeway. The courtesan in Balzac who, on becoming pregnant, unhesitatingly sought, and got, maintenance from two of her men friends, can’t have been the only one. Uncertainty allows mothers to select for their children the father who would be best for them.

The point is that paternity was ambiguous and it was effectively up to the mother to name her child’s father, or not. (That eminently sensible Jewish custom, whereby Jewishness is passed through the mother, was based on the fact that we only really knew who our mothers are.) Many men have, of course, ended up raising children who were not genetically their own, but really, does it matter? You can feel quite as much tenderness for a child you mistakenly think to be yours as for one who is. Piers Paul Read’s interesting new novel, The Misogynist, touches on just this issue.

A.C. Grayling, the philosopher, has written with feeling on this question this week, in an article for the Evening Standard. Noting that 4 per cent of men are, all unknowing, raising children who are not genetically theirs, according to a report in the Journal of Epidemiology and Human Health, he ponders the impact a DNA paternity test can have: ‘The result can be shattering, leading to divorce, marital violence, mental health difficulties for all parties including the children.’ Well, yes. Scientific certainty has produced clarity all right, and relieved any number of men of their moral obligations, but at God knows what cost in misery, recrimination and guilt.

Their moral obligations? What obligations does a man have to a child that is demonstrably not his?

It amazes me (and I know it shouldn't with female solipsism and all that)... but it amazes me that the same women who'll march for their God-given right to kill unborn children, are capable of simultaneously writing about men's "moral obligations" to parent a child that's not even his.

Quote:Our generation sets a good deal of store by certain knowledge. And DNA tests have obvious advantages when it comes to identifying less happy elements of our heredity: congenital disease, for instance. But in making paternity conditional on a test rather than the say-so of the mother, it has removed from women a powerful instrument of choice. I’m not sure that many people are much happier for it.

Post: #2

This looks like typical female "I want my cake and eat it too" mentality.

They actually are AGAINST ways to prove precisely who the father of their child might be. Why?

Well, think about it. It reduces their options. They don't want to be check-mated by science.

They want to be able to shake down the person they think is best suited to take care of them. That is, pay them.

Of course, women are all in favor of science and technology when it increases their power. But when it tends to restrict their power, they're against it.

Too much precision in the testing would also enforce fidelity on them. And this is something they don't want. I don't know what the numbers are, but I suspect that a significant percentage of children born out there don't have their own biological parent taking care of them.

Post: #3

From the comments section:

Quote:I'm sorry women can no longer lie about this. it's quite sad. but please remember that you also still have the ability to ruin a man's life with other lies, like rape.

Post: #4

Hmmm....looks like the left doesn't believe in science!

But I thought it was the "fundies" and "right wing" and "holy rollers" who are anti-science?! But I guess since paternity DNA testing doesn't fit the "narrative" of the feminist left, science is now bad to them.

So much for "I fucking love science." Idiots.

Post: #5

(01-17-2015 06:07 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  Too much precision in the testing would also enforce fidelity on them.

Only in a non-sum game.

Post: #6

Nothing new here. I haven't yet met a girl who wasn't mortally offended when I said I would never have a kid without a paternity test.

Post: #7

All feminists I have spoken with have the attitude that genetic paternity is unimportant.

They also fail to recognize that men have an interest in only raising their own son. Like how we recognize that in some cases it can be in a woman's interest to dupe someone into raising someone else's kid, they simply do not recognize the male prerogative as even existing.

Scary.

Post: #8

In other words "woman should have the right to cheat on their man and have him pay for the bastard child for 18 years."

Post: #9

(01-17-2015 06:33 PM)godfather dust Wrote:  In other words "woman should have the right to cheat on their man and have him pay for the bastard child for 18 years."

The feminist platform appears to be:

Pro-choice for women.

No-choice for men.

Post: #10

Women seem to have a blind spot on this issue, for whatever reason (i.e. innate solipsism, pure self-interest, antipathy toward men). For all the hysteria we hear about rape, the fact is that false paternity claims are without question a much more heinous crime than rape, even violent rape. I have no problem making that claim without any equivocation.

A rape is something that lasts a matter of minutes in the vast majority of cases. A false paternity claim, on the other hand, usually plays outs over years or decades, and can not only rob a man of enormous sums of money, but in some cases can eliminate him entirely from the gene pool. In sum effect, it's a combination of grand larceny, fraud and murder. This is to say nothing of the emotional distress inflicted on the man if/when he finds out he has been cuckolded in this manner.

A false paternity claim is roughly the equivalent of a man kidnapping a woman, violently raping her over a period of several weeks until he was sure that she was pregnant with his child, then forcing her to raise the child. And yet, the false paternity claim is even worse than this, because the woman in this case could at least find some small comfort in knowing that the child in question was hers as much as it was her rapist's. The man who is a victim of paternity fraud, on the other hand, has no comfort. He has been robbed of his money, his dignity, his affections and of his place in the next generation. In short, he has been robbed of everything meaningful that a man can possibly live for. He is reduced to a pathetic shell, having been duped in the worst way imaginable, his very existence reduced to mockery.

I would support the death penalty for any woman convicted of paternity fraud, for when a woman engages in such behavior, she has intentionally sought to rob a man of his entire life.

Post: #11

Stefan Molyneux's most famous one-liner is, "Taxation is theft."

I propose that "Motherhood is theft-to-the-sixth-power."

Post: #12

This comes up every few months on the internet. Every time I see it, I shake my head. I can't fathom that amount of hatefulness to innocent men.

Imagine finding a man on the street and telling him he's been drafted to give huge amounts of money, time, and mental energy to some other project. Would anybody find that sensible? Throw in an unfaithful woman and suddenly everything changes?

Post: #13

(01-17-2015 06:49 PM)scorpion Wrote:  Women seem to have a blind spot on this issue, for whatever reason (i.e. innate solipsism, pure self-interest, antipathy toward men). For all the hysteria we hear about rape, the fact is that false paternity claims are without question a much more heinous crime than rape, even violent rape. I have no problem making that claim without any equivocation.

A rape is something that lasts a matter of minutes in the vast majority of cases. A false paternity claim, on the other hand, usually plays outs over years or decades, and can not only rob a man of enormous sums of money, but in some cases can eliminate him entirely from the gene pool. In sum effect, it's a combination of grand larceny, fraud and murder. This is to say nothing of the emotional distress inflicted on the man if/when he finds out he has been cuckolded in this manner.

A false paternity claim is roughly the equivalent of a man kidnapping a woman, violently raping her over a period of several weeks until he was sure that she was pregnant with his child, then forcing her to raise the child. And yet, the false paternity claim is even worse than this, because the woman in this case could at least find some small comfort in knowing that the child in question was hers as much as it was her rapist's. The man who is a victim of paternity fraud, on the other hand, has no comfort. He has been robbed of his money, his dignity, his affections and of his place in the next generation. In short, he has been robbed of everything meaningful that a man can possibly live for. He is reduced to a pathetic shell, having been duped in the worst way imaginable, his very existence reduced to mockery.

I would support the death penalty for any woman convicted of paternity fraud, for when a woman engages in such behavior, she has intentionally sought to rob a man of his entire life.

Completely agree with everything in your post.

I'd also like to add that if the child finds out their mother lied about their parentage they can experience an identity crisis that does severe emotional and psychological damage to them.

Post: #14

Paternity testing should be mandatory to have been made in order to register a father of a child.

Post: #15

(01-17-2015 06:49 PM)scorpion Wrote:  Women seem to have a blind spot on this issue, for whatever reason (i.e. innate solipsism, pure self-interest, antipathy toward men). For all the hysteria we hear about rape, the fact is that false paternity claims are without question a much more heinous crime than rape, even violent rape. I have no problem making that claim without any equivocation.

A rape is something that lasts a matter of minutes in the vast majority of cases. A false paternity claim, on the other hand, usually plays outs over years or decades, and can not only rob a man of enormous sums of money, but in some cases can eliminate him entirely from the gene pool. In sum effect, it's a combination of grand larceny, fraud and murder. This is to say nothing of the emotional distress inflicted on the man if/when he finds out he has been cuckolded in this manner.

A false paternity claim is roughly the equivalent of a man kidnapping a woman, violently raping her over a period of several weeks until he was sure that she was pregnant with his child, then forcing her to raise the child. And yet, the false paternity claim is even worse than this, because the woman in this case could at least find some small comfort in knowing that the child in question was hers as much as it was her rapist's. The man who is a victim of paternity fraud, on the other hand, has no comfort. He has been robbed of his money, his dignity, his affections and of his place in the next generation. In short, he has been robbed of everything meaningful that a man can possibly live for. He is reduced to a pathetic shell, having been duped in the worst way imaginable, his very existence reduced to mockery.

I would support the death penalty for any woman convicted of paternity fraud, for when a woman engages in such behavior, she has intentionally sought to rob a man of his entire life.

Damn well said.

Post: #16

I know a guy who raised a kid who wasn't his, found out the kid wasn't his and felt bad for the child and kept raising him. Granted, this guy has 3 other kids that are his, but that is still brutal.

Post: #17

Her trolling skills are outstanding.
5 years later and she is still getting bites and page views and attention, the lifeblood of any modern day "journalist."
From the article title, to rhyming gems like "anti-feminist appliance of science," she does a fine job of provoking outrage.
Lots of hyperbolic statements like "At a stroke, the one thing that women had going for them has been taken away, the one respect in which they had the last laugh over their husbands and lovers" are clearly intended for a male audience and just add fuel to her deliberately set fire,.

Post: #18

(01-17-2015 06:49 PM)scorpion Wrote:  For all the hysteria we hear about rape, the fact is that false paternity claims are without question a much more heinous crime than rape, even violent rape. I have no problem making that claim without any equivocation.

A rape is something that lasts a matter of minutes in the vast majority of cases. A false paternity claim, on the other hand, usually plays outs over years or decades, and can not only rob a man of enormous sums of money, but in some cases can eliminate him entirely from the gene pool. In sum effect, it's a combination of grand larceny, fraud and murder. This is to say nothing of the emotional distress inflicted on the man if/when he finds out he has been cuckolded in this manner.

A false paternity claim is roughly the equivalent of a man kidnapping a woman, violently raping her over a period of several weeks until he was sure that she was pregnant with his child, then forcing her to raise the child.

As a child finding out what rape was, I remember struggling to understand why it was apparently on the same plane as murder. After all, the woman walks away unharmed, right? (any physical harm dealt out in violent rape being only accessory to the actual crime). And the physical act she is engaged in is the same that she has or will perform consensually many times, with pleasure. As a 12 year old, I tried to understand the reason for the horror, shame and punishment.

Of course, the reason why rape is seen in all societies as such an egregious crime is that it takes away a woman't right to choose the father of her child. Her agency in this matter is the most important choice she makes in life.

As for a man, his reproductive agency consists in being able to knowingly father children with the woman of his choice. Cuckolding is the theft of his reproductive agency. Exactly the same as rape.

To women who won't acknowledge that, fuck them. And to the doctor who might hand me the birth certificate to sign as the acknowledged father, I'll say "sure - after the results of the DNA test, of course."

Post: #19

Black dude at the gym was b.s.ing in the locker room with me about his babay's momma and said he ended up paying child support for 3
2+ years for a 3rd child they had, he thought was theirs. He left the kid's mom when this 3rd kid was 1.

Come to find out he paid child support for 2+ years to a kid that wasn't his, and the kid's facial features tipped him off as to the possibility.

I court he asked the judge:"So since I paid child support to this kid that wasn't mine for over 2 years I get to take that balance I paid for a kid that wasn't mine and apply the 2+ years towards the kids that are mine right?"

Judge:"Nope, I'm sorry but that will be considered a gift..Case closed."

Post: #20

While I generally tend to think MRA types are pussies and whiners who can oftentimes sound like feminists, this is an issue where I completely agree with them. This is a very important topic that needs to be talked about far more than it is and women who are against paternity testing need to be called out and shamed.

Post: #21

There are only two instances in which I would knowingly raise a child that wasn't mine:

1) A dear friend or family member has passed away and left the child in my care.

2) She's rich and I can just chill out and spend her cash all day.

As soon as the kid pops out and I have a second alone with them, I bust out the swab.

I've met more than one woman who acted like raising her bastard spawn was some sort of 'honor' and that she was 'entitled' to having a man raise her child - but not just any man, the right man, because when we fuck up our lives, we get to pick and choose the outcome. Women wonder 'where all the good men have gone!'...you reap what you sow.

Comments are extremely vitriolic towards the author, good sign.

Post: #22

Seeing this kind of piece written only increases the amount of contempt and distrust I already have for women. Just think about all of the other women that believe or already try to do this kind of thing.

When I have children, a paternity test will be had. I don't care how loyal the woman seems or if I have no reason to suspect infidelity.

Post: #23

Paternity fraud is the only legal type of fraud. The fact that society refuses to address women legally being able to do it to men with no reprocussions is perhaps the biggest glaring inequality of "special treatment" between me and women.

@ scorpion I wrote an article on rok which came to a similar conclusion that paternity fraud is worse than rape.
http://www.returnofkings.com/18694/pater...-than-rape

Post: #24

Is it possible for a woman not to genuinely know who the father is? Like maybe she was fucking three dicks at the same time.

Post: #25

(01-18-2015 03:43 AM)Pride male Wrote:  Is it possible for a woman not to genuinely know who the father is? Like maybe she was fucking three dicks at the same time.

It's completely possible.

Some girls fuck more than a dozen dudes over the course of one month, all raw. Or even multiple dudes in a 24 hour window. Hell, even multiple dudes at the same damn time.

How could she know who the father actually is?

Childbirth doesn't happen 9 months to the date. There is some gray zone in there where multiple dicks could have slipped in and she has no way of knowing who the real father is without a paternity test.