Post: #26

There's a trade-off between frequency and volume.

If you increase volume, you need longer to recover, but you maximize protein synthesis for a single session (usually PS reaches its peak 24 hours after a work out, but it continues for up to 36 hours). If you have high frequency, you'll also increase protein synthesis with more frequency, but you'll be less able to go high volume.

So I think the middle-ground is somewhere between there, and it will depend on your age/hormonal levels.

I suspect I've got pretty good genes, so I can handle 1x a week of ridiculous volume. But I doubt my body can do that for much longer.

I think 3 exercises of 8 sets (maximum) for the chest 3x a week is probably ok. Give it a shot.

Drop the push-ups. That's too much volume.

Post: #27

Have any of you tried wide grip bench press to the neck? My chest is also developing slower than the rest of my body. I got this tip from bold and determined victor pride. I'm into the 3rd week of doing this and I can already see progress. Basically this is how I've been doing it:

Wide grip bench to the neck at 50% of my normal bench Max. (50kg my Max is 100kg)

Week 1
Days 1 and 2
Wide bench to neck 5X10
50 Wide spread pushups with 15kg on my back
Day 3
normal bench 5x5
Dumbbell flys 4x10

Week 2
Days 1 and 2
wide bench to neck 6x10
50 push ups same as last
Day 3
Normal bench 5x5
Dumbbell flus 4x10

Week 3
Days 1 and 2
Wide bench to neck 7x10
50 pushups same as last

That's where I'm at at this point. I'm going to continue increasing the set number each week for bench to the neck. My chest feels torn to pieces after this bench to the neck. I'll see how I progress after a few more weeks of this.

Also my chest is lacking more at the top than bottom so might not be as good for developing the bottom of the chest.

Hope this gives you guys some ideas.

Post: #28

(01-14-2015 06:04 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  How do you squeeze with your chest with bench press? With flies I can squeeze but with bench press your arms are locked to the bar.

Bench press is a exercise that is notoriously easy for some guys to completely do wrong if they're not able to lift with the pecs properly. You have to THINK and INTEND TO not press the bar away from you in a straight line, but to actually make the elbows move from the side of the body to the inside. The movement will look literally the same to you and to any outsider, but when you actually think with which muscles you want to lift something and what movement you intend to make, things works differently.

Case in point: close bench press is a great exercise for triceps, and almost 0 chest will be trained that way. The movement basically LOOKS the same though. Another example: some people have ruptured and separated their pecs, that means they simply can't use their pec muscles at all. But they can still bench press. Another example: stand straight up in front of a wall at arm's length, and then press your hands in a straight line into the wall. You'll be able to feel your arms working but will have 0 chest activation. Now don't try to press into the wall, but try to basically squeeze the wall together by intending to bring your elbows closer to each other. NOW the chest will fire.

As esoteric and "wise but pointless" it sounds, it really does matter how you picture a movement in your mind.

Post: #29

(01-14-2015 06:04 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  Hey guys, thanks everyone again for the help. I'm making some progress, still bloody slow but it's there.

Here's where I am so far. Look a bit better in real life.



I'm still hitting the arms more than I should I think. I never do any arm exercise at all and they are still growing.

How do you squeeze with your chest with bench press? With flies I can squeeze but with bench press your arms are locked to the bar.

I think for my chest right now I want to focus on the under area, the part from the nipples down and especially the separation from between the two pecs. How do I make the definition in the middle clearer? (I guess this is similar to developping a pec cleavage lol) What exercise should I focus on?

I did more dumbell flies and cable flies now and it definitely helps.

Chest day program, 3x/week:

Bench press, 5x5
Dumbell flies, 3x10
Incline dumbell flies 3x10
Cable flies, 30
75 pushs up every morning 7/7.

Should I add weighted dips? Any exercise to keep and to take out?

No offense but I think you need more mass before worrying about the minutia like targeting different sections of your chest. In that vein I would suggest that you reduce the isolation exercises and concentrate on getting stronger on the compounds.

When you can do 5x5 benches with 225 your chest will likely be much larger.


Keep it simple :

Bench press, 5x5
Dumbbell flies, 3x10

If you train chest twice a week you could do this on your 2nd chest day

DIPS 5x5
Cable flies, 30

and that's it for chest. You may think "But that's not enough exercises, I need to hit chest from all different angles".

But I tell you from experience it's enough if you put everything into those few sets. You must lift progressively , so when you get to you desired reps for all your sets notch that weigh up. Add 5 pounds or ten. I don't care. Do 5x5 or 3x10 or 4x8 or 4x12 . Do incline flat or declines - barbells or Dumbells - I don't care - as long as it's a compound exercise .. that's going to be your meal ticket - you have go all out for those because they offer the biggest bang for your buck.

Take the energy to save from not doing those other, redundant isolation exercises and focus it towards other compound exercises for you back or legs and... most importantly rest.

And don't forget to eat or you are wasting time. Don't forget to sleep or you are wasting time and don't forget to lift progressively ...

Post: #30

Do you mean i should bulk more?

Post: #31

I never seen a someone with a great chest with a weak bench press . If your struggling repping 225 pounds , you will never get that powerful looking chest .

Post: #32

(01-18-2015 07:06 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  Do you mean i should bulk more?

In my opinion yes. You want you chest to be bigger the best bet for you is to get your whole body bigger/stronger. How much do you weigh? How tall are you? How old are you? How much is your bench 5x5?

Post: #33

130lbs, 5"4, 24 years old and currently benching 135lbs 5x5. There's no fucking way I can bench 225lbs I think. Ideally I think you should bench 1.5x your bodyweight?

Post: #34

(01-18-2015 06:19 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  130lbs, 5"4, 24 years old and currently benching 135lbs 5x5. There's no fucking way I can bench 225lbs I think. Ideally I think you should bench 1.5x your bodyweight?

Ok Cool. You just need to set some goals. At your height and frame I think you would approach "jacked" @ around 150-155lbs at your current body fat levels . If you are good for 175 -185 5x5 bench at some point I bet your pecs will be noticeably larger. So if I were you I'd give myself 8 months - 1 year to reach those numbers , all the while working your other large body parts like your back and legs. At that point if you are ok with your general pecs size and overall body shape/size, then you might explore some refining techniques.

Get started right away. Get an extra 250 cal in every day. If you are benching 135 5x5, now is time to move to 140lbs . When you can do that 5x5 Move to 145. If you plateau , back of that exercise (switch to a variation) or if you prefer change your rep scheme. Its ok to ramp down the weights while upping your reps and work your way back up past your plateau. I'm guessing you haven't been lifting too long. That's a good thing , in many cases it means you have a lot of room to grow. So Keep it simple , always be getting STRONGER, EAT, sleep, and be patient .

Post: #35

1.5xBW is just the weight to be considered "strong", but no reason to stay there. I can squat well over 2x my body weight.

Post: #36

(01-18-2015 06:19 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  130lbs, 5"4, 24 years old and currently benching 135lbs 5x5. There's no fucking way I can bench 225lbs I think. Ideally I think you should bench 1.5x your bodyweight?

Limiting beliefs dude. In my gym, I see guys your height benching this weight all the time. Aim higher!

Post: #37

I've been doing 4x8 fly and press (incline, decline, flat) with dumpbell for the past 3 weeks and it feels fucking great, much better than when I bench press. Cable fly is awesome too.

When I do dumpbell I feel the chest much more and I also get sore, with bench press even with sets to failure I still don't feel much.

About weighted dips, what should the set/rep be like? I'm currently just bodyweight dipping at 3x10 and it's pretty tough.

I could already see my chest developing. Especially, the separation between the two pecs is clearer. Hope to get some more definition by the time t-shirt season rolls in.

Post: #38

Bill Starr used to say that he'd get his lifters on weighted dips once they cleared 4x25 BW.

Post: #39

Update after 3 weeks of 2-3 chests day each:

This is where I am right now:



Definitely some progress compared to last year. Still nowhere near satisfying

Outer chest is developing but I'ms still lacking mass. And I have no lines for the lower chest, it's as if sinks into my body. Man I want to have those nice lines defining the chest all around.

That ridge separating the two pecs needs lots of work.

My work out now focuses mainly on fies and press, but I've ditched bar bench press totally. Dumpbells do it much better for me, I can really really feel the weight on my chest vs bar press.

Also switched to 4x8 instead of 5x5. I'm constantly upping weight and train to failure.

Dumpbells fly, flat, incline and decline.

Dumpbells press, flat, incline and decline.

Chest pec deck machine, dip, cable flies.

For some reasons, my right shoulder hurts bad when I open my arms on the flat flies. However I have no problem with incline and decline. Anyone got an idea?

Incline flies are fucking awesome! I really feel like my chest are being ripped out to each side.

Anything else I should add/pay attention to?

I'm eating a lot more, getting proper rest and stuff.

Post: #40

(01-15-2015 08:39 AM)oldirtybachelor Wrote:  Have any of you tried wide grip bench press to the neck? My chest is also developing slower than the rest of my body. I got this tip from bold and determined victor pride. I'm into the 3rd week of doing this and I can already see progress. Basically this is how I've been doing it:

Wide grip bench to the neck at 50% of my normal bench Max. (50kg my Max is 100kg)

Week 1
Days 1 and 2
Wide bench to neck 5X10
50 Wide spread pushups with 15kg on my back
Day 3
normal bench 5x5
Dumbbell flys 4x10

Week 2
Days 1 and 2
wide bench to neck 6x10
50 push ups same as last
Day 3
Normal bench 5x5
Dumbbell flus 4x10

Week 3
Days 1 and 2
Wide bench to neck 7x10
50 pushups same as last

That's where I'm at at this point. I'm going to continue increasing the set number each week for bench to the neck. My chest feels torn to pieces after this bench to the neck. I'll see how I progress after a few more weeks of this.

Also my chest is lacking more at the top than bottom so might not be as good for developing the bottom of the chest.

Hope this gives you guys some ideas.

How are your shoulders feeling with the Gironda presses? No problems? Cheers

Post: #41

@Dalaran1991

I have a trusty workout that I have done for years for my lower chest. I don't know how to describe it but I will do the best I can. It is a essentially a 'tension' type pull trough for your lower chest but to isolate you have to a do a odd position to get the max amount of tension on your lower chest.

People say "decline is best for lower chest" but the decline is dumb, and you will only push up serious weight unless you are in the static smith machine which is not superior to getting tension all over the lower part of the pec, go and try and do serious weight with the decline that with a free moving barbell and see how that works...

Evrey gym is different but most usually have the usual suspects for machines. There is likley a pulley apparatus and most gyms will have the twin towers with the two center pulleys:


and the exteriors/sides for your upper and lower back, triceps:



I prefer to use the exterior that you can use for triceps/biceps so it has to be adjustable to you can put it on the lowest height (if not use the interior, just know clowns will bug you so they can do some weak ass cable flys since your using one of the pullys). If your a tall mother fucker you can just do this on your feet. If your a short dude like me then you will need a boost.

This can be tricky as you have to get the right height to be able to get a good contraction as I will explain later. Those step benches where you can add on different levels will work. If your gym has step/squat boxes get a bunch of those. The first time you do this it will take a while to adjust the pully and the height on the boxes to achieve the right level of height.

The position:

*You want to have your back parallel to the pully cord, and be essentially facing away from the machine.

*You then want to square up your legs to have enough room to pull the pully rope you would use for triceps in between your legs. If this sounds awkward.. is because it is.

*Essentially if your height is right the pully cord will be grazing the bottom of your shorts, a half foot and some below your nuts. I don't want this shit grazing your sack but you want it below where it would be grazing your shorts which would be a few inches below your nuts if you wear them just above your knee.

Now you would grip the cord in the opposite fashion you would for a traditional tricep pull down. Meaning that on a tricep pulldown your outer (where your thumb connects) nuckles are crossing, so the opposite would be that inner knuckles (closest to your pinky) would be the opposite and would be in the crossing fashion, just like you would position them to work you biceps.


This is how you want to look. But don't be as far back as Lee in this photo. You want to have it in between the legs, but raised height allows you space to be able to focus and contract your pecs, which standing on your feet and so far away from the base of the machine would limit.





Any time I see this in a magazine the rare time they leave out the height factor. You only get so much tension from the base of your feet. The last picture the position is good but when he follows through, you want more spacing of your arms floating above your thighs, to get more of the chest into it.




The Movement:

Now position yourself, with light weight (start off with maybe 20lbs, very light) and try to squeeze and isolate your lower chest. Essentially try to use your lower chest to contract and move the weight. The contraction will only be for a short period, a few seconds but it will be 100% done by your lower chest and nothing else. Practice this until you can contract the lower chest in a clean movement. If your are successful with this the end movement will be a clean follow through with the cable thought your legs and your hands making following the formation of a "V". But the key is to not simply use your arms, biceps or any other muscles to move the weight, you have to focus the contraction on the lower pec. You will know when you hit it, it will be strange the first time. Keep on doing this until you burn out your pecs. If it is to light, go a bit higher and do pyramid sets until your pec fuses up with blood flow.

It will burn like a bitch. Your chest will swell up and you will look like have a gorilla chest. Plus regardless of how over the top the movement looks it does the job. People always look at me funny when I do it, but then they see the pump after and stop staring. IF you like to look cool in the gym then don't do this as you won' look cool yanking rope under your nuts, but if you want that big lower chest this IMO is the best way, the best way, to isolate the lower section.

For the inner chest. It is impossible to isolate it. It just grows from stimulation of all the other parts of the pectoral sections. To get that 'line" its a matter of getting size and depth in your pec muscle fibers which have many layers and then cutting down. How your body type is also affects how pronounced it will look as well.

Post: #42

(02-05-2015 03:51 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  Update after 3 weeks of 2-3 chests day each:

This is where I am right now:



Definitely some progress compared to last year. Still nowhere near satisfying

Outer chest is developing but I'ms still lacking mass. And I have no lines for the lower chest, it's as if sinks into my body. Man I want to have those nice lines defining the chest all around.

That ridge separating the two pecs needs lots of work.

My work out now focuses mainly on fies and press, but I've ditched bar bench press totally. Dumpbells do it much better for me, I can really really feel the weight on my chest vs bar press.

Also switched to 4x8 instead of 5x5. I'm constantly upping weight and train to failure.

Dumpbells fly, flat, incline and decline.

Dumpbells press, flat, incline and decline.

Chest pec deck machine, dip, cable flies.

For some reasons, my right shoulder hurts bad when I open my arms on the flat flies. However I have no problem with incline and decline. Anyone got an idea?

Incline flies are fucking awesome! I really feel like my chest are being ripped out to each side.

Anything else I should add/pay attention to?

I'm eating a lot more, getting proper rest and stuff.

Impressive especially after just 3 weeks. Your outer and even upper chest have filled out noticeably.

Post: #43

(02-05-2015 03:51 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  Update after 3 weeks of 2-3 chests day each:

This is where I am right now:



Definitely some progress compared to last year. Still nowhere near satisfying

Outer chest is developing but I'ms still lacking mass. And I have no lines for the lower chest, it's as if sinks into my body. Man I want to have those nice lines defining the chest all around.

That ridge separating the two pecs needs lots of work.

Also if I were you I would look into throwing diffrent types of chest workouts in the mix. For example.

Do Dips/weighted dips at a weight that is challenging for you

Do push ups: try for 200, Do as many as possible only taking a couple of seconds of rest then get right back at it till you reach 200

Sprinkle these simple excersises in with your regular workout and you'll be surprised how well they work.

My work out now focuses mainly on fies and press, but I've ditched bar bench press totally. Dumpbells do it much better for me, I can really really feel the weight on my chest vs bar press.

Also switched to 4x8 instead of 5x5. I'm constantly upping weight and train to failure.

Dumpbells fly, flat, incline and decline.

Dumpbells press, flat, incline and decline.

Chest pec deck machine, dip, cable flies.

For some reasons, my right shoulder hurts bad when I open my arms on the flat flies. However I have no problem with incline and decline. Anyone got an idea?

Incline flies are fucking awesome! I really feel like my chest are being ripped out to each side.

Anything else I should add/pay attention to?

I'm eating a lot more, getting proper rest and stuff.

it might have been mentioned here already but in my opinion if you want a bigger more defined chest you need to bulk a bit.

I say this because right now, the workout that you are doing for example flies are meant to shape your chest

I am taking it that you are not happy with the volume in your chest you have already. So my suggestion is to gain a tad bit of weight so that you can fill out your chest.

once you've done that then you can go back to flies to shape what mass you have already accumulated

also try mixing in different types of chest exercises as a pre exhaust excersices to use before you start your chest workout.

Do Dips/ weighted dips for 150 reps: do as many as possible take a 10 second break then continue till you reach 150

Do Push ups: 150 : do the same as for the dips continue untill you complete 150

The purpose of the pre exhaust is to completely breakdown your muscle before really putting stress on it from your main workout

In recovery your body will build back twice as much muscle due to the high intensity it perceives it will endure upon such intense training.

This along with bulking a bit will yield you a thicker more filled out chest

Post: #44

Its true that i want more mass in my chest. What do you guys mean by bulking exactly? Eat a lot more and do compound exercises ?

Post: #45

This is common sense, but if an exercise hurts, don't do it.

Don't open too wide when doing flies. Some consider them an inherently risky movement.

Post: #46

It's needlessly risky to open wide doing flies. Your pecs are attached to your upper arm bone so your pecs won't care how far away you're removing your lower arm from your body. But your shoulder WILL care because you're increasing the lever acting upon it. Say hello to a sweet shoulder dislocation at some point

Post: #47

(02-07-2015 02:54 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  Its true that i want more mass in my chest. What do you guys mean by bulking exactly? Eat a lot more and do compound exercises ?

Bulking just means taking in more calories than you are outputting

clean bulking simply means taking in an excess of calories.

Eating things like eggs, white rice, natural foods that are calorie heavy that are not processed

You could also dirty bulk which is just eating all the bullshit that tastes good and that is processed.

Eating excessively more won't exactly accomplish a bulk. But frequently incorporating calorie rich foods into your diet will accomplish a bulk.

Compound exercises should already be the core of your workouts.

Though to gain weight, that comes strictly from your diet.

Post: #48

(02-08-2015 01:25 PM)Sketness Wrote:  

(02-07-2015 02:54 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  Its true that i want more mass in my chest. What do you guys mean by bulking exactly? Eat a lot more and do compound exercises ?

Bulking just means taking in more calories than you are outputting

clean bulking simply means taking in an excess of calories.

Eating things like eggs, white rice, natural foods that are calorie heavy that are not processed

You could also dirty bulk which is just eating all the bullshit that tastes good and that is processed.

Eating excessively more won't exactly accomplish a bulk. But frequently incorporating calorie rich foods into your diet will accomplish a bulk.

Compound exercises should already be the core of your workouts.

Though to gain weight, that comes strictly from your diet.

Ok I'm good then. Should be expecting some mass in the next 2 months.

About dips. I still can't do weighted dip yet. 3x15 prove challenging enough for me. However when I do dips I feel it really hits the plexus. Specifically I feel like the muscle just above the solar plexus are really tightening. Is it good or not?

Post: #49

(02-09-2015 09:24 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

(02-08-2015 01:25 PM)Sketness Wrote:  

(02-07-2015 02:54 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  Its true that i want more mass in my chest. What do you guys mean by bulking exactly? Eat a lot more and do compound exercises ?

Bulking just means taking in more calories than you are outputting

clean bulking simply means taking in an excess of calories.

Eating things like eggs, white rice, natural foods that are calorie heavy that are not processed

You could also dirty bulk which is just eating all the bullshit that tastes good and that is processed.

Eating excessively more won't exactly accomplish a bulk. But frequently incorporating calorie rich foods into your diet will accomplish a bulk.

Compound exercises should already be the core of your workouts.

Though to gain weight, that comes strictly from your diet.

Ok I'm good then. Should be expecting some mass in the next 2 months.

About dips. I still can't do weighted dip yet. 3x15 prove challenging enough for me. However when I do dips I feel it really hits the plexus. Specifically I feel like the muscle just above the solar plexus are really tightening. Is it good or not?

Ive never heard of the solar plexus but you will feel your abs tighten up if you are doing a lot of dips and thats normal

Post: #50

Try this exercise out. Works wonders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jby0I-zLj9c