Post: #1

The best part of "Quiet" is that the insights gleaned from these studies can help introverts take advantage of their special traits and thrive on their own terms in an extroverted world. Since introversion and extroversion are preferences for a certain level of outside stimulation, Ms. Cain advises introverts to find their "sweet spot" --or what scientists call the optimal level of arousal. Scientists also notice that introverts engage in "deliberate practice" or working alone so for those looking for a job, Ms. Cain encourages them to pay attention to the layout of working spaces to determine how much interruption they may have to deal with at work. For those still deciding on a career, the author reminds readers that research shows that introverts are not reward-seeking like extroverts, but rather motivated by the enjoyment they find in pursuing an activity; in other words, by being in what psychologist Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi calls the "flow". Ms. Cain offers encouragement to introverts to venture in the extrovert world because we all have the ability to stretch our limits but the optimal way for introverts to do it is in the service of their "core projects," the things they are passionate about. And for those with children, the author dedicates an entire chapter for helping introvert children become confident and comfortable in extroverted environments and situations.

Amid the research and the advice, Ms. Cain calls the readers' attention to those introverts who have made a difference in the world like Rosa Parks and Ghandi. They showed that empathy, thoughtfulness, persistence, compassion, focus and conscientiousness, all characteristics ascribed to introversion, are leadership attributes too.

"Quiet" has not only given me a better understanding of introversion but also of the opposite trait. The same person, who labeled me as "anti-social" also boasted on how easily he could befriend people and in the same breath, complained about how my quietness and solitary pursuits would be hell for him. After reading Ms. Cain's book, now I realize why somebody who can make 100 friends would be so bothered by the one solitude-seeking friend in the group and why introverts and extroverts attract each other. And so, I think, introverts and extroverts will both benefit from reading "Quiet". But for those of us, innies who find joy in doing our own thing, prefer a book than join a party or think monastic silence is bliss, there is no longer any need to feel guilty or like we are oddballs because of our preferences. The message from "Quiet" is clear. Introversion has never been an aberration but a variant of the norm.

Post: #2

I just read a section of this book for class. Definitely got me thinking about how schools force kids to be active and engaged with other kids all the time, and how if a student resists or doesn't want to, they're seen as wrong or undeveloped.

The Tony Robbins part was pretty spot on. Pay an extra $5k to feel more energized and be with people who are just as energized as you!

The whole book is online for free for anyone interested.

Post: #3

The introversion-extroversion continuum between cultures is interesting. America > Europe > Asia. Where would Latin America, India, Middle East and Africa fit in on the temperament continuum? I know it's a bit of a generalization. I feel like Latin culture may be more extroverted than American culture. Perhaps African cultures even more so than Latin ones. But I don't know for sure.

Post: #4

I finished reading this book about a month ago. Really well written. Powerful ideas. This is great nonfiction. Best of all, Lucky's summary hits all the most important points I really thought were important in the book. Nice job.

The two biggest points that got me thinking:

The shift from a culture of character to a culture of personality is spot on and eye-opening. I realized that the girls I've liked the best came from households that still valued that culture of character. With this idea, Cain has finally clearly defined what old-school really means, in terms of personality... a person who values integrity, duty, and honor above magnetism, charisma, and energy. It's probably a very good reason those men who have slept with women around the world lament the decline of the American woman as a stable romantic partner. It's not a coincidence Dave Chappelle, Patrice O'Neal, Chris Rock, George Carlin, Richard Pryor, and so many other comedians have made a variation of the joke: "Women, wanna make your man happy? Suck his dick, fix him a sandwich and don't talk so much."

Needless to say, those qualities are rapidly disappearing, and this shift in American cultural priorities has to have something to do with it.

The other thing that caught my attention, although I agree with Lucky was out of place at the end, was to think long and hard about who you envy.

Cain Wrote:Pay attention to what you envy. Jealousy tells the truth. Who do you envy? That will tell you something about what you want to do.

This was such a great fucking point. I realized that I do not envy a single person in the current line of work I'm in. Not one. To be frank, without fail, I outright pity the most successful people in this field.

When I really thought about who I envied, some unexpected answers came up. Then I came across this wisdom on the forum:

babelfish669 Wrote:Money matters only as much as the free time it releases to you.

The (regular) people I most envied were people who managed to find a great hustle that afforded them flexibility and hours on par with a 9-to-5, or better.

Sometimes realistic expectations are ignored on this forum. Sure, I envy actors, musicians, athletes, etc. Is it realistic I'll ever have that life? No. But, in the realm of the achievable, the lifestyle of people I do envy is definitely within my reach.

Almost forgot...



WB.

Post: #5

^ Starting to list and accomplish things that I envied in others was really my first hard step into Red Pill before I got on RVF.

I think a strange definition of happiness is not being jealous of others because you have what you want. You don't need what anyone else has.

Post: #6

Thanks for the Review, I am definitely adding this book to my list now.



Oh, and WB.

Post: #7

Double WB - would bang and will buy

Post: #8

I think being an introvert is an advantage in the land of loud mouths IF you make sure to pay attention to every thing and everyone and can be loud when needed!

Post: #9

Thanks for this review. Had this sitting on my Kindle but wasn't quite sure if I wanted to read it.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Rudyard Kipling

Post: #10

Good review sir, I've been eyeing this one in many a bookshop throughout the past year. I think I'll make it my next read. I didn't know that introvert was a thing until the last few years, when the definition was explained to me, I started laughing thinking that's me all right.

Post: #11

(12-22-2014 06:58 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  ^ Starting to list and accomplish things that I envied in others was really my first hard step into Red Pill before I got on RVF.

Travesty, could you go into a little more detail about who you envied, and what you envied about them? Could be a personal thing so no worries if you'd rather not divulge. I just think it'd be interesting to know what you and other members envy in regular-ass, non-celebrity people.

Anyway, here's a video of the author speaking about the book. She's no Tony Robbins when it comes to public speaking, that's for sure. The video's a good addition to the book, but definitely not a worthy replacement.

Post: #12

If you're an introvert you can enjoy the best of both worlds and just be yourself but louder. It sounds dumb but it works.

Post: #13

I also agree with Lucky about going to Europe and being considered "sociable" as opposed to an introvert. That's the one thing I really enjoyed about Europe.

Post: #14

(12-22-2014 03:11 PM)Osiris Wrote:  I just read a section of this book for class. Definitely got me thinking about how schools force kids to be active and engaged with other kids all the time, and how if a student resists or doesn't want to, they're seen as wrong or undeveloped.

The Tony Robbins part was pretty spot on. Pay an extra $5k to feel more energized and be with people who are just as energized as you!

That part stood out to me as well. It definitely changed the way I think about the way our society socializes kids.

I recall at age 13 I went through a brief period of being very quiet, no idea why. I just preferred listening to music and reading, and didn't talk much. My parents would constantly ask me if I was okay and make snarky comments during dinner like "wow, could you be any louder over there?" If a kid isn't constantly upbeat people assume something is wrong.

The Tony Robbins bit was great. When the author is booking a seat in the nosebleed section (which is $500) the coordinator of the event tells her that "typically, people who sit up closer to Tony achieve more success in their lives."

To no one's surprise, the closer seats will set you back $2000.

Post: #15

Nice review, Lucky. Added to my wish list.

Post: #16

(12-23-2014 12:27 AM)Hades Wrote:  If you're an introvert you can enjoy the best of both worlds and just be yourself but louder. It sounds dumb but it works.

I'm going to retort here: That is some BS. I'm an introvert and while I am also a public speaker and a mentor to lots of people its tiring as hell. Unless I'm being paid well or the people I'm dealing with are showering me with praise or their attention, I won't do it. I'd rather be reading a book or listening to jazz drinking green tea.

Introverts aren't extroverts. Thats why they are introverts. THere is no "best of both worlds". My extrovert friends FREAK out if they have to be alone with their thoughts for a while. They talk to think. I'm the opposite: I need to be alone after being around a lot people in a way extroverts can't understand.

Did you read the book?

Post: #17

(12-22-2014 06:38 PM)Kamikaze Wrote:  

Cain Wrote:Pay attention to what you envy. Jealousy tells the truth. Who do you envy? That will tell you something about what you want to do.

This was such a great fucking point. I realized that I do not envy a single person in the current line of work I'm in. Not one. To be frank, without fail, I outright pity the most successful people in this field.

When I really thought about who I envied, some unexpected answers came up.

I had this same thought about a year ago about my current line of work. I realized that I despised and pitied most of the older men around me. Currently working toward my next goal.

The envy method works for marriage too. How often have you seen a married man and thought "I'd love to trade places with that guy"?

Contrast that with how often you hear married men say "what I wouldn't give to be a single man like you."

Post: #18

Yeah I can often tell someone's from the US within about 2 words, even if I can't hear their accent. It's like they deliberately make their words longer, louder, and more dramatic, even if they're talking about something trivial like going to a coffee shop. Perhaps this is just a subset of Americans though, they generally talk with a 'hipster' or 'liberal' accent.

I remember this one guy talking with a girl about him being from Chicago. He spent at least 5 sentences to say "I'm from Chicago, it's nice there", with no additional specific information. Almost like he was humming a tune, rather then actually talking. I expected the girl to look at him like he was an idiot, but she was loving it.
"Oh ChiiCaaaaaaaaagooooooo, I looooovveee ChiCaaaaggoooooo, ChiCAAAAAAGOO is awwwweeeeesome". I felt like asking out loud "why the fuck do you keep saying Chicago?".

Australians are also pretty high up on extraversion, which often means 'loud, cocky, and stupid'. I hate it. You can hear them talk for 3 hours, and at the end have no idea what they talked about - because they didn't talk about anything. It's just noise.

I love cultures where people avoid opening their mouths unless they have something to say. It's intelligence, not introversion.

Post: #19

I'm reading The German Genius (a compendium of German contributions to Western thought) and the author cites an interesting passage from Georg Simmel, the first professional sociologist in Germany:

“The individual’s struggle for self-assertion against the pervasive indifference of metropolitan social interaction ultimately leads one to the most tendentious eccentricities, the specifically metropolitan excesses of aloofness, caprice and fastidiousness, whose significance no longer lies in the content of such behavior, but rather in its form of being different, of making oneself stand out and thus attracting attention” – Georg Simmel 1903, Die Großstädte und das Geistesleben (The Metropolis and Mental Life)

This quote captures part of the transition of 19th century values to 20th century ones; the shift from valuing integrity and content of character to placing an emphasis of being different and having an ability to draw attention to oneself. I think we can see the truth of Simmel's quote in contemporary western society.

Post: #20

@kamikaze

Until I was about 23 I was very much a play traditional sports and video games guy.

I started envying artistic guys because I liked the pussy they were getting.

I seriously picked up drums recorded music and played live pretty quickly when I made the decision to not envy them but join in.

Another thing was just having a cool pad chicks like. I put myself in situations where I put rent $ and roommates as friends over getting my own place which I finally did.

Lived in CA for a long time snowboarded, but didn't surf. Was envious of guys taking advantage of the ocean right here so I ponied up for many lessons threw down cash on all the gear and rack etc... now I take chicks surfing.

List goes on... you envy someone or something it isn't out of reach you can make a version of it for yourself rather than just wishing or subconsciously hating on them.

Post: #21

INTJ checking in. Will definitely add this to my list of must reads this year.