Post: #1

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/12/22/...nd-beyond/

Quote:NEW YORK – Knit cap pulled down over his ears, shoulders hunched against the biting wind, Paul Nungesser was almost indistinguishable from the dozen or so other students traversing the steps of Columbia University’s Low Memorial Library one menacing December day. But a few of those students recognized him anyway, flicking their eyes up for a discreet peek before hurrying on to the last classes of the semester.

He has gotten used to former friends crossing the street to avoid him. He has even gotten used to being denounced as a rapist on fliers and in a rally in the university’s quadrangle. Although his name is not widely known beyond the
Morningside Heights campus, Nungesser is one of America’s most notorious college students. His reputation precedes him.

His notoriety is the result of a campaign by Emma Sulkowicz, a fellow student who says Nungesser raped her in her dorm room two years ago. Columbia cleared him of responsibility in that case, as well as in two others that students brought against him. Outraged, Sulkowicz began carrying a 50-pound mattress wherever she went on campus, to suggest the painful burden she continues to bear. She has vowed to keep at it until he leaves the school.

Her story has been so compelling, and “Mattress Performance (Carry That Weight)” – which doubles as her senior thesis for the visual arts department – so affecting, that large numbers of Columbia students have rallied around her. She has been honored with national awards. In October, students at more than 100 colleges carried their own mattresses (or pillows) to call attention to the problem of campus sexual assault.

Through all of it, Nungesser has hovered in the background like a specter. His name has been plastered on campus bathrooms and published in easily searchable articles. His face is visible online, too, in photos that detractors have posted as warnings to strangers.

Until now he has made no public statement. With graduation only a semester away, however, and his reputation, he says, all but demolished, he has decided to speak.

He says that he is innocent and that the same university that found him “not responsible” has now abdicated its own responsibility, letting mob justice overrule its official procedures. The mattress project is not an act of free expression, he adds; it is an act of bullying, a very public, very personal, and very painful attack designed to hound him out of Columbia. And it is being conducted with the university’s active support.

“There is a member of the faculty that is supervising this,” he said. “This is part of her graduation requirement.”

Columbia’s president, Lee Bollinger, while declining to address the matter directly, offered a general statement: “The law and principles of academic freedom allow students to express themselves on issues of public debate; at the same time, our legal and ethical responsibility is to be fair and impartial in protecting the rights and accommodating the concerns of all students in these matters.”

Three Women File Complaints

Sulkowicz says that in August 2012, during an otherwise consensual encounter, Nungesser hit her, pinned her down and, despite her protests, raped her. Another woman accused him of following her up the stairs at a party for the literary society they both belonged to and groping her until she pushed him off. A third woman accused him of multiple incidents of “intimate partner violence” – emotional abuse and nonconsensual sex during a months-long relationship.

Sexual assault cases can sometimes come down to a matter of perspective, but Nungesser’s accusers say there can be no ambiguity about what he did.

“It’s not safe for him to be on this campus,” Sulkowicz said this month. The women he assaulted “are forever emotionally scarred and fragile because of what he’s done to them. And me.”

Nungesser is similarly absolute.

“People were like, maybe this is a misunderstanding,” he said of Sulkowicz’s charges. “But the matter of the fact is it’s not a misunderstanding.” He insists they had consensual sex. “What was alleged was the most violent rape, and that did not happen.”

As for groping, he says he attended the party but never went upstairs. And intimate partner violence?

“Outside of a forced marriage or kidnapping, it just seems very hard to believe that a person would over and over again put themselves in a situation where they could expect this kind of behaviour to occur.”

False reports of rape are rare, many experts say, and the federal Department of Education is investigating scores of colleges for possibly violating federal rules in handling the complaints that are filed.

Nungesser said the charges against him, all filed within days of one another, were the result of collusion. The three women said in interviews with The New York Times that they decided to take action when they heard about one another’s experiences.

The groping case was initially decided against him, with a largely symbolic punishment of “disciplinary probation,” but he appealed. By the time the case was heard again his accuser had graduated and was unable, she said, to participate in the process. The decision was overturned. The university dropped the intimate partner violence charge after that accuser, saying she was exhausted by the barrage of questions, stopped answering emails over summer vacation. And in Sulkowicz’s case, the hearing panel found that there was not enough evidence. Her request for an appeal was denied.

To Nungesser’s accusers, the refusal to punish him in any way – as well as the myriad procedural errors, delays, contradictions and humiliations, both small and large, to which the women said they were subjected – are proof that the system was biased against them. If three separate complaints against the same man could not persuade the hearing panels, how could anyone believe that justice was served?

“To me he seems like a predator who attacks women, who does not ask for consent and does not know the line,” said the student who accused Nungesser of groping her, and who asked not to be publicly identified, as did the third accuser.

To Nungesser, the fact that campus hearings have a lower burden of proof than criminal trials and that he was not allowed to bring up communications between himself and Sulkowicz after the night in question, were proof that the process was biased against him. If despite those odds, the hearings resolved in his favor, how could anyone doubt that justice was served?

His Whereabouts Are Noted

Speaking carefully, with a slightly formal bearing and an accent so faint that it can be hard to place, Nungesser, who is from Germany, says he believes sexual assault is an important cause for concern.

“My mother raised me as a feminist,” he says, well aware of how those words will strike some people, “and I’m someone who would like to think of myself as being supportive of equal rights for women.”

Most of his Columbia friends have dropped him along the way, either when the charges were first filed or when Sulkowicz went to the police last year and the Columbia Spectator made the decision to publish his name. (Sulkowicz did not press criminal charges, a lengthy process that she said would be too draining, but she and several other women filed gender discrimination complaints against Columbia with the U.S. Department of Education.)

Nungesser, an architecture major, spent the spring semester abroad, where he started dating a woman he is still involved with today. During that time, Sulkowicz went public with her story, appeared at a news conference with Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, D-N.Y., and on the front page of The Times, and helped inspire a national movement.

He says he approached Columbia’s administration to see if, under the circumstances, it might make more sense for him to spend his senior year in a study abroad program. But the application deadline had already passed, and his request for a waiver was denied.

Back in Morningside Heights, his actions are closely noted. On the National Day of Action, when students brought their mattresses out to the quad, a few people also brought them to one of Nungesser’s classes. Someone there took his picture as he entered, he said; another classmate blogged about it. On another occasion, when he went to a bar with a friend, that fact made its way into a television news report on Sulkowicz’s project.

Nungesser’s parents work in modest jobs, and he says he would never have been able to afford Columbia had he not been awarded scholarships. But people assume he is just another rich foreign student, he says, whose family uses its wealth to buy influence.

Nungesser has consulted a lawyer, but said he is not currently pursuing any legal action. His parents have written the university many times to decry a situation that they say “developed from a complete shock to an enduring nightmare for him and for us.”

Sulkowicz’s parents have also been active in her defense, publishing an open letter to Bollinger, the president.

In an interview, her mother, Sandra Leong, said the university left Nungesser in an untenable position. Regarding a hearing process in which so many Columbia students appear to have lost faith, Leong, who lives in Manhattan said, “I think by sweeping it under the rug they’ve subjected him to a very painful, scarring experience. I don’t see it as Emma’s fault because she just had to do what she had to do, but I do see it as the school’s fault.”

“He probably also is holding on for dear life because it’s a free education,” she added. “But ostracism is also horrible. It’s just a debacle.”

Columbia Changes Procedures

Columbia’s procedures for investigating sexual assault allegations have changed considerably since Nungesser and Sulkowicz’s case was decided. Accusers and defendants are now each allowed to bring a lawyer, for example; if they do not have one, Columbia is one of the only colleges in the country that will provide one.

But one fundamental goal of the process remains the same, says Suzanne B. Goldberg, a special adviser to the university’s president on sexual assault prevention and response. Unlike criminal trials, she explained, university hearings are designed to be educational experiences.

“I think that any university students who engage with a disciplinary process on these issues learn a lot,” she said.
Nungesser says he has learned that the university will abandon its own convictions if it is politically expedient.

Sulkowicz, whose high profile has made her the target of innumerable online attacks, says she has learned that women’s safety is expendable. For her and others, Nungesser’s continued presence is a daily affront.

Having avoided contact with each other for two years, the two adversaries are scheduled to graduate in the same ceremony in May. Sulkowicz said she may bring her mattress up on stage and drop it right there. Nungesser is ambivalent about the day, wary of further displays but eager to move on to a place where this episode does not define him. He says he does not know where that will be.

Post: #2

Read this with my coffee this morning. It's actually pretty damn balanced, surprisingly enough.

This case is a tough one. If as a (non-celebrity) man three different women are accusing you of something, at the very least you need to seriously re-tool your way of doing things. I wouldn't be surprised at all if this guy were guilty of something. Nor would I be surprised if he were totally innocent.

And that's the thing. No one knows, and not one of these accusations stands up on its own to rigorous scrutiny, as seen by the school's decision not to punish him. And yet this guy's accuser has been saluted as a hero, while he's been named and shamed and had his reputation forever ruined.

That's the real injustice in all of this.

Post: #3

Well...I'd say it's over him once he graduates, but it's not, it never will be.

One quick Google search and he's fucked.

Why he isn't suing the fuck out this attention whoring bitter pumped and dumped bitch is beyond me.

Post: #4

Quote:Mr. Nungesser, who is from Germany, says he believes sexual assault is an important cause for concern. “My mother raised me as a feminist,” he says, well aware of how those words will strike some people, “and I’m someone who would like to think of myself as being supportive of equal rights for women.”

How's that working out for you, Paul?

If I may indulge in a little pop psychology here, we know that women instinctively hate the stink of betatude that hangs around male feminists like a cheap and cloying aftershave.

It's quite possible he's just an awkward, clueless young man who managed to hook up with a few girls on the strength of his athleticism and his European accent, before they realised what a fumbling simp he is and started to loathe him for failing to supply the gina tingles they expected.

Real rape victims are usually terrified of their attackers. It's obvious these girls aren't in the slightest bit afraid of him - none of them are pursuing criminal charges, as you'd expect if actual sexual assault had occurred. But they feel free to slander him on campus, after having spoken to each other.

Doesn't sound like they see him as a threat, does it?

Post: #5

Quote:Unlike criminal trials, she explained, university hearings are designed to be educational experiences.

Old enough to vote. Old enough to die for their country. Old enough to sleep around with whomever they want. Not old enough to be treated like adults, though, they need to be hand-held and 'educated' about things.

People behave the way you treat them. If you treat them like adults, they'll behave like adults - aside from the occasional mistake, for which you punish them, allowing them to learn their lesson (learning from experience, not some syllabus); treat them like children and they'll act like children, irresponsible and negligent children.

As Heinlein said in Starship Troopers, "Juvenile Delinquent" is a contradiction in terms, since a juvenile cannot have an adult responsibility to be delinquent of.

(12-22-2014 12:31 PM)Seamus Wrote:  This case is a tough one. If as a (non-celebrity) man three different women are accusing you of something, at the very least you need to seriously re-tool your way of doing things. I wouldn't be surprised at all if this guy were guilty of something. Nor would I be surprised if he were totally innocent.

Nonsense. I can think of dozens of different motivations that would lead three women to conspire against a man that two of them had been involved with. These aren't adults, remember, they're children - the College constantly foists this upon them - they're never held accountable for their behaviour, and that includes lying. On the contrary, they're encouraged to manufacture reality; this whole useless generation has been taught that feels are more important than objective facts. They feel like he needs to be punished for whatever imagined slight he gave them, and if they need to manufacture a story, then so be it.

The real travesty of this is the pathetic males at this College who aren't standing up for him. I'm utterly disgusted by the spineless simps who deal with these girl-babies on a daily basis, and then utterly believe whatever nonsense they spout. Failing to stand up to feminists is one thing - that can be damaging to your career - but to shun him as a non-person based upon their say-so?

Pathetic. They're engineering their own destruction, and will righteously deserve their own divorce-thefts, FRAs, or arrests for 'domestic violence'.

Post: #6

(12-22-2014 12:34 PM)kaotic Wrote:  Well...I'd say it's over him once he graduates, but it's not, it never will be.

One quick Google search and he's fucked.

Why he isn't suing the fuck out this attention whoring bitter pumped and dumped bitch is beyond me.

I'd really like to know what recourse, legally, a victim of these accusations has once name is tarnished. What is the likelihood of winning the case?

Most guys that age are broke, unless their family ponies up the $$ to pursue a case, and it's doubtful IMO many lawyers will pursue these cases on contingency.

Post: #7

"(Sulkowicz did not press criminal charges, a lengthy process that she said would be too draining, but she and several other women filed gender discrimination complaints against Columbia with the U.S. Department of Education.)"

Really?

*More draining than lugging a mattress around all semester?

*More draining than having people gawk at you for months because you're a spectacle?

*More draining than wall-to-wall media coverage, and having to put up with intrusive reporters?

*More draining than knowing people like us are questioning the story?

I've been to trials before. The lawyers do all the work. You go, you speak your piece, and you sit down. It's one day, two days tops along with some prep beforehand with the lawyer. Not nearly as "draining" as the mega-circus this woman has created.

If he really is a "predator who attacks women," he should be behind bars, and this woman and her cronies just did a society and his future girlfriends a huge disservice.

Post: #8

(12-22-2014 01:16 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 12:31 PM)Seamus Wrote:  This case is a tough one. If as a (non-celebrity) man three different women are accusing you of something, at the very least you need to seriously re-tool your way of doing things. I wouldn't be surprised at all if this guy were guilty of something. Nor would I be surprised if he were totally innocent.

Nonsense. I can think of dozens of different motivations that would lead three women to conspire against a man that two of them had been involved with.

Nonsense? I can think of dozens of reasons to explain anything, it doesn't make them true. Occam's razor has to kick in at some point.

Like I said, I have no idea if this guy is guilty of anything worse than bad game, and since there's no proof that should be the end of the matter, full stop. But pretending like three sexual assault accusations from three different women isn't a bad sign is delusional at best.

Post: #9

This tells you everything you need to know:

Quote:Nungesser said the charges against him, all filed within days of one another, were the result of collusion. The three women said in interviews with The New York Times that they decided to take action when they heard about one another’s experiences.

The groping case was initially decided against him, with a largely symbolic punishment of “disciplinary probation,” but he appealed. By the time the case was heard again his accuser had graduated and was unable, she said, to participate in the process. The decision was overturned. The university dropped the intimate partner violence charge after that accuser, saying she was exhausted by the barrage of questions, stopped answering emails over summer vacation. And in Sulkowicz’s case, the hearing panel found that there was not enough evidence. Her request for an appeal was denied.

One of the ways women exert power is by pushing people out of social groups. It's very primal and has the capacity to be devastating. When it happens this is often times how it goes down. One girl decides she doesn't want someone around anymore. She convinces a few other women in the group that that person is a bad person and has to go. From that point on facts don't matter, the person to be exiled is bad and any means necessary to shame them out of the group are valid. It seems to me that it's very likely that's what happened here. By the time all the appeals processes were going on the group had disbanded and there was no reason to keep trying push him out so two of the girls stopped participating in the charade. The third still had a beef with the guy but now no recourse so she resorted to carrying around a mattress.

Quote:To Nungesser, the fact that campus hearings have a lower burden of proof than criminal trials and that he was not allowed to bring up communications between himself and Sulkowicz after the night in question, were proof that the process was biased against him. If despite those odds, the hearings resolved in his favor, how could anyone doubt that justice was served?

I would love to see those texts. My guess is they clear a lot of this nonsense up. In any case glad the dude came forward. Hopefully he can put this behind him.

Post: #10

I thought she did go to NYPD (8 months later) and they pretty much laughed at her tall tale and she had a hissy fit.

Post: #11

I did not know that the "Party Mattress" was an art piece and her "Thesis" as well. The fact that her degree is tied to this is total garbage.

I wish my thesis could have been like that....holding up a mattress I found in residence hall. PS no way that thing is 50lbs.

Post: #12

If I were he, I'd sue the bejesus out of Colombia and Emma ( she has rich parents).

Post: #13

(12-22-2014 01:30 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  I did not know that the "Party Mattress" was an art piece and her "Thesis" as well. The fact that her degree is tied to this is total garbage.

I wish my thesis could have been like that....holding up a mattress I found in residence hall. PS no way that thing is 50lbs.

I have a funny feeling tax payers are footing her tuition bill and she's obviously getting a garbage degree.

Post: #14

(12-22-2014 01:26 PM)Seamus Wrote:  Nonsense? I can think of dozens of reasons to explain anything, it doesn't make them true. Occam's razor has to kick in at some point.

Like I said, I have no idea if this guy did anything, and since there's no proof that should be the end of the matter. But pretending like three sexual assault accusations from three different women isn't a bad sign is delusional at best.

Let's examine the claims these women made one at a time:

Quote:Sulkowicz says that in August 2012, during an otherwise consensual encounter, Nungesser hit her, pinned her down and, despite her protests, raped her.

Bullshit. If he'd hit her there would have been physical evidence. Unless this was happening at a Rape Cabin deep in the woods, she could have screamed for help. Also, how did this go from consent to rape? Details please, otherwise I'm assuming it's regret-sex.

She's making an extraordinary claim, but providing no evidence.

Quote:Another woman accused him of following her up the stairs at a party for the literary society they both belonged to and groping her until she pushed him off.

This is not a crime. Period. And it's something we've all done. If you've never put your arm around a woman's hip at a party, then you suck at partying. Hell, most women have done the same to men.

This testimony is utterly irrelevant.

Quote:A third woman accused him of multiple incidents of “intimate partner violence” – emotional abuse and nonconsensual sex during a months-long relationship.

Bullshit. If "IPV" means physical violence, then there would have been marks. If it doesn't mean physical violence, then it doesn't mean anything.

This is a girl who presumably had her own dorm room or apartment, and a meal-plan that allowed her to eat at the quad. She wasn't desperate or poor, and thus 'forced' into accepting him yelling at her every night - she was an independent, empowered woman, who dated him for months.

So: three stories that smell of utter bullshit, with the worst story coming from an attention-whoring ring leader who decides to carry around a mattress instead of actually working for her degree.

Next, tack on the fact that a College Review Board, who only have to meet the burden of "Preponderance of Evidence" (51%), also found the story wanting when they heard all the details.

Utter, utter, bullshit.

Post: #15

As I've said before, these special snowflakes of this generation cannot handle being rejected.

This guy sounds like something of a playa. These girls were horrified to learn that the guy was just interested in them as penis receptacles and didn't care about their wonderful snowflake qualities.

Once they realized he dashed out the door after cumming and doesn't care about their bullshit, their mind is blown. Eight months of hamstering, and their hurt feelings turn into "rape."

Post: #16

Quote:False reports of rape are rare, many experts say, and the federal Department of Education is investigating scores of colleges for possibly violating federal rules in handling the complaints that are filed.

Well, with a reliable source like "many [unnamed] experts", the benefit of the doubt must lie with the accuser. We'll ignore all the other experts and all this due process nonsense and just assume guilty until proven innocent (and then still assume guilt if the legal process doesn't give the right answer).

Post: #17

(12-22-2014 01:41 PM)Aurini Wrote:  Let's examine the claims these women made one at a time:

I think you're arguing past me here, I agree with the weaknesses you pointed out. As I said:

(12-22-2014 12:31 PM)Seamus Wrote:  not one of these accusations stands up on its own to rigorous scrutiny, as seen by the school's decision not to punish him.

The burden of proof can't be met, which makes the automatic assumption of guilt and national shaming we've seen so disgusting. That's the big takeaway.

But that's not the same as saying this guy is unequivocally guiltless either, and I don't think we should go that far. The waters are muddy like they are in all of these cases, since there's rarely any physical proof one way or the other.

What I said before still holds:

(12-22-2014 12:31 PM)Seamus Wrote:  If as a (non-celebrity) man three different women are accusing you of something, at the very least you need to seriously re-tool your way of doing things.

We've all aggressively hit on women. Yet I've never been accused of sexual assault like this guy, much less by three women simultaneously, and I doubt others on here have either. It could either be a case of extreme bad luck and hateful collusion, or this guy's method of defeating last minute resistance might just mean plowing ahead. We don't know.

Let me put it this way. If your buddy had three sexual assault allegations lodged against him, would you chalk it off to bad luck or sit him down and tell him he should probably re-think his closing game a bit?

Post: #18

(12-22-2014 02:02 PM)Seamus Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 01:41 PM)Aurini Wrote:  Let's examine the claims these women made one at a time:

I think you're arguing past me here, I agree with the weaknesses you pointed out. As I said:

(12-22-2014 12:31 PM)Seamus Wrote:  not one of these accusations stands up on its own to rigorous scrutiny, as seen by the school's decision not to punish him.

The burden of proof can't be met, which makes the automatic assumption of guilt and national shaming we've seen so disgusting. That's the big takeaway.

But that's not the same as saying this guy is unequivocally guiltless either, and I don't think we should go that far. The waters are muddy like they are in all of these cases, since there's rarely any physical proof one way or the other.

What I said before still holds:

(12-22-2014 12:31 PM)Seamus Wrote:  If as a (non-celebrity) man three different women are accusing you of something, at the very least you need to seriously re-tool your way of doing things.

We've all aggressively hit on women. Yet I've never been accused of sexual assault like this guy, much less by three women simultaneously, and I doubt others on here have either. It could either be a case of extreme bad luck and hateful collusion, or this guy's method of defeating last minute resistance might just mean plowing ahead. We don't know.

Let me put it this way. If your buddy had three sexual assault allegations lodged against him, would you chalk it off to bad luck or sit him down and tell him he should probably re-think his closing game a bit?

Post: #19

Yeh this is probably a set up.

He's also not very wealthy, which is why he's hesitant to hire a lawyer, even if he wins, he's still gonna have to pay, and it's doubtful the court would make her pay him a bunch of money, when it's a he-said-she-said. If I was him, I'd consult a lawyer, and see if I could write a book or podcast, and tell my story, while also making some money, so if I do decide to sue, I have some money to pay a decent lawyer. He could also move people to his side.

Post: #20

I agree with Seamus. He was doing something wrong. I doubt he was doing what the girls describe, but he was obviously doing something NOT right to have three girls hate his guys enough to find each other and plot against him.

This situation is a combined result of a) over-entitled feminist students and b) bad game.

For his own sake, hopefully this guy improves his game to not be such an asshole.

Post: #21

(12-22-2014 01:54 PM)Lemmo Wrote:  

Quote:False reports of rape are rare, many experts say, and the federal Department of Education is investigating scores of colleges for possibly violating federal rules in handling the complaints that are filed.

Well, with a reliable source like "many [unnamed] experts", the benefit of the doubt must lie with the accuser. We'll ignore all the other experts and all this due process nonsense and just assume guilty until proven innocent (and then still assume guilt if the legal process doesn't give the right answer).

The experts have been saying one-in-five college women are sexually assaulted.

Now a new study is saying it's more like 6.1 per one thousand. So not 20 percent, instead 0.61 percent. The old estimate was overstated by 33.

Imagine if some told you you weighed 5,600 pounds instead of 170 lbs.

Imagine if someone said you made $1.6 million per year when instead you made $50,000.

Imagine if someone said you were 196 feet tall when in actuality you are 6 feet tall.

You'd say the person doing these estimates which are overestimated by 33x is a ridiculous teller of tall tales.

So much of rape hysteria is made of fantastical fabrications, whether it's Jackie's story or the one in five myth. I don't believe any of it. I don't believe that stat that false accusations are exceedingly rare. It's all part of the bogus story telling required to keep rape hysteria alive when FBI rape statistics show real rape has been dropping like a rock for decades.

Showing feminists and SJWs those FBI rape stats is like holding up a cross to Dracula. They flip out and try to change the subject and become louder and more shrill.

Post: #22

(12-22-2014 02:06 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  

Well that's certainly one way to kill the discussion

(12-22-2014 02:12 PM)monster Wrote:  I agree with Seamus. He was doing something wrong. I doubt he was doing what the girls describe, but he was obviously doing something NOT right to have three girls hate his guys enough to find each other and plot against him.

This situation is a combined result of a) over-entitled feminist students and b) bad game.

For his own sake, hopefully this guy improves his game to not be such an asshole.

Exactly my point.

Post: #23

(12-22-2014 02:02 PM)Seamus Wrote:  Let me put it this way. If your buddy had three sexual assault allegations lodged against him, would you chalk it off to bad luck or sit him down and tell him he should probably re-think his closing game a bit?

This is terribly naive. If you've carved out a niche where you only interact with normal, well adjusted people, more power to you. But this is not the situation here. These accusations are taking place on a far left campus full of glassy-eyed feminist ideologues. One of the accusations is from a freak who is hauling her "rape mattress" around for a class project. It wouldn't be surprising at all if she found a few other losers to fabricate accusations. By all accounts these other accusations suddenly appeared after she started dragging her mattress around - i.e., after attention whore envy was triggered.

There is no shortage of evidence just over the last couple of weeks that there are many feminists and mentally deranged people fabricating rape accusations out of thin air. There is zero reason to think he is guilty just because of the number of unsupported allegations against him. The accused's story - that this is collusion among some deranged girls - is much more likely than "bad game".

Post: #24

(12-22-2014 02:19 PM)Lemmo Wrote:  There is no shortage of evidence just over the last couple of weeks that there are many feminists and mentally deranged people fabricating rape accusations out of thin air. There is zero reason to think he is guilty just because of the number of unsupported allegations against him.

Let me see if I understand you here. Are you arguing that the false-rape accusation trend has reached such overwhelmingly epidemic proportions that multiple accusations now have literally zero probative value? That having three girls accuse you of sexual assault doesn't muddy the waters even a bit? That's a very extreme position.

(12-22-2014 02:19 PM)Lemmo Wrote:  This is terribly naive. If you've carved out a niche where you only interact with normal, well adjusted people, more power to you. But this is not the situation here. These accusations are taking place on a far left campus full of glassy-eyed feminist ideologues.

[edit]

(12-22-2014 02:19 PM)Lemmo Wrote:  It wouldn't be surprising at all if she found a few other losers to fabricate accusations.

I agree. As I said in my original post:

(12-22-2014 12:31 PM)Seamus Wrote:  I wouldn't be surprised at all if this guy were guilty of something. Nor would I be surprised if he were totally innocent.

Sure, they could've all colluded against him. Or just maybe the guy's got some issues. We don't know. Is that really such a hard idea to swallow?

Post: #25

Seamus, you would be a terrible friend to have I think.

You and monster are not seeing the point. First of all, look at the "groping" case. Dude was tipsy at a party, went for the isolation close up the stairs and went for a make-out. Normally in a very drunk situation these are very hit or miss. But he went for a drunk makeout. Okay. Sadly this is rape today. I'm throwing this one out the window.

Look at what this guy has been through. Every point that dude made in this story is spot on. Walking around campus, his own "friends" dropping off and everyone staring at him like a rapist. He was likely suicidal during this intense bullying. I'm sure at one point he was forced by the bullying, and by people like you, into BELIEVING that he had assaulted these girls. He has not.

I agree that one of his friends should have sat him down and told him "You have done nothing wrong, but be careful in today's environment because if a girl is uncomfortable she can spin it any way she likes." Please stop the victim blaming. And yes the man here is the victim.

He is certainly someone who had bad drunk game at 19. How many of you were "playas" at that age? But on the other side, I've personally had many girls get belligerently drunk and come on to me or my friends in front of my eyes. I have seen drunk unattractive girls with such a high level of entitlement that they have actually physically attacked/kicked me when I tried to cockblock their attempts at hooking up with my drunk friend [at his behest]. Nothing happened to this girl. None of us pressed charges. We laughed about it the next day, said she was a crazy bitch, and then she continued coming to our fraternity for years because she was friends with some of the brothers.

If a guy had done that...well you get it right?

He probably DID do something wrong from a strict moral sense. I have done similar things when I was 19 and drunk at parties. It is not something I would be proud of telling my family, so in that sense it was wrong. It was not legal rape.

He can go two ways from this. He can go into self loathing and become a male feminist even more and apologize for his actions. Or he can take up the red pill, read some old Danger and Play posts, and join the forum like I did.

The problem is that this man was cleared in a Kangaroo court! And still the college has allowed such a severe mental torture by these bullies, and in fact funded it. The college must be called out and taken to court over this. Then we have people like you, who are apparently man's men, and "rep pill" also accusing this guy. On the feminist side, you have someone who has lost in a court that is 100% in her support to start with, and still not only do you have all feminists supporting her, but even the mid-line student on the fence is probably supporting her. This isn't even a case of "we should support all men till they are proven guilty". This man has been show innocent in a court where all odds were against him. Are you starting to understand?

I have seen this kind of collusion between girls first hand. Sometimes even "nice" girls will get roped in by a feminist ring-leader. In my case I did not even have full on sex with any of them. I was made to believe by people that I was in the wrong. That I had "a sense of entitlement". That I had a drinking problem and was a rapist. It took a lot of mental fortitude to remove blame from myself. I relate more with this guy's case than even a lot of the others out there, because unlike UVA this is more about many cases of "modern rape". Modern rape is where everything is broadened to include things like making out and groping or repeatedly hitting on girls as rape. He had sex with the main crazy bitch, she didn't like it. These other two girls had weird drunken interactions with the guy they didn't like. He was probably "a bit sketchy", and "bit of a perv" about it. Most people like to play the nice guy card and continue sleeping with these girls. He was probably a horny drunk who went for a kiss.

To the main point, yes teach this guy more game. teach him about being careful with drunk hookups in college. Not because they are wrong, or he is at fault. But because an unfair system will target him for it. In fact if he had been even a bit more aggressive with the girls, but was a sweet athlete bro and not a poor immigrant, then the girls would probably not gone after him in this way. these "feminists" are the most elitist people out there and the biggest supporters of caveman patriarchy in a way.

Paul Nungesser, man, ITS NOT YOUR FAULT. You've done nothing wrong...except being raised into a feminist.

On the last point of suing the college and the girls. yes he should absolutely do this. Why? Because his name is already out there. At this point he has nothing to lose and everything to gain. If his name were not out there, he would be hesitant because he would not want his family to know about this. I still haven't sued my bullies for mainly this reason alone.