Post: #51

(11-21-2014 03:38 PM)scorpion Wrote:  [quote='Ryre' pid='886447' dateline='1416601840']
Apparently some of her friends at least are backing her story up.



Amazing how these alleged rape victims all just happened to be friends.

It's a complete farce.

I have always noticed this too. This always seems to be the case, or you have some feminist spokesperson type girl from the college come out and give an interview to the paper and very casually throw around that "yeah I was raped", or something like "and my rapist...blah blah blah" like it were peanuts.

It's like you ask me about the NBA and I go, "Yeah Charles, when I used to ball, we used to do this this and this"

Post: #52

(11-21-2014 05:07 PM)runsonmagic Wrote:  He went with a female friend to the police several years ago and they basically said, "you won't win the case, don't even bother." (Her case was one guy alone in a room with her, forcing himself on her). He has another friend who went drinking with his GF and actually passed out because he downed her drink and it had a roofie in it. No joke.

There have been similar rumors circling the campus for years, long before the media caught a case of rape hysteria. If I didn't know someone personally who'd gone to that school and suggested it was accurate, I'd be inclined to dismiss the story too.

Thanks.

I can easily see the police officer saying that. With no evidence and no witnesses - no evidence besides the fact that sexual intercourse took place - he's right that she would not be able to prove anything.

Be very careful to distinguish between hearsay and witness. Mass hysterias have a way of fueling themselves. You hear one guy saying there is a rape culture, and when another says so, too, it becomes credible by popular vote.

The other problem is that people reinterpret their own memories in the context of what they have heard. I had a girlfriend that had been a fraternity gang bang slut. I believe her stories, for the most part, because they fit with her personality when she drank. But at the same time, her stories regularly shifted. I seriously couldn't tell you whether they were her fantasies. One time she told me she had been raped "many times". Other times, they weren't rapes, not really ... she only regrets that she was too drunk to remember more of them.

I could imagine that Jackie was brutally raped. I don't have firsthand knowledge of such things happening, but I suppose it could have.

I can also imagine that Jackie had regrettable sex, and in her paranoid fantasies morphed it into a lurid tale. Anything is possible. This is just one woman's story.


Regarding the media: The author of the RS article stated that she picked UVA precisely because it is a privileged institution. In other words, she openly admits this article reflects her social agenda.

These are disturbing times.

Post: #53

(11-21-2014 05:24 PM)placer Wrote:  

(11-21-2014 05:07 PM)runsonmagic Wrote:  There is clearly motive for the media to make something like this up. It would just be a new level of lie. Most recent feminist stories about rape have been regret-rape or I-drank-too-much-and-said-yes-rape. What is described here is gang-rape, the kind we would all agree is wrong if it did happen. I would just be shocked if a reporter went that far on a story this important, though not surprised, as it fits a pattern of habitual lying the media has, or at least unquestioningly repeating unverified stories.

I don't think it's the "media" making up this story. I think Jackie has made up -- or at least greatly exaggerated -- this story, possibly with some prodding from the author of this RS hit piece.
...

went through the article again. Frankly - they have no real data to support the story. The media should not have published the story at all.

Several points sound impossible - being gang-raped on broken glass, severely hurt and with multiple cuts and her leaving the party unseen and then being advised by all friends to not report the crime. This story smells too much bullshit especially since they can go after the whole rape hysteria angle as well as after all white male fraternities. They want to ban the latter too I guess.

we truly have to stop taking a magazine serious which has described Anita Sarkasian as one of the most important cultural critics of our times. Spinning a strange completely nebulous rape story is running on similar vapid water.

Post: #54

(11-21-2014 02:52 PM)scorpion Wrote:  There's also this little gem buried toward the end of the story:

Quote:But payback for being so public on a campus accustomed to silence was swift. This past spring, in separate incidents, both Emily Renda and Jackie were harassed outside bars on the Corner by men who recognized them from presentations and called them "cunt" and "feminazi bitch." One flung a bottle at Jackie that broke on the side of her face, leaving a blood-red bruise around her eye.

Wow! So some evil frat guy threw a glass bottle at Jackie that shattered on her face, leaving a big red bruise (but somehow again no lacerations, between this and being gang raped on a broken glass table and suffering no injuries, Jackie either has the skin of an elephant or is the female Wolverine).

Great catch. I've seen a few guys break bottles over their heads, it is very difficult to do. More often than not they wind up with a lump and laceration, and a stilll intact bottle. One friend could do it pretty consistently when hammered - holding the bottle in his hand while hitting the hardest part of his head very hard but even he didn't always break it (which he said actually hurt much worse).

The story itself sounds sensationalized but not completely implausible. I work with a group of guys and we have certainly been known to egg each other on with "pussy!" etc to drink/approach/take shots of hot sauce. I also had a couple buddies years ago who regularly gangbanged skanky broads. Ironically, they faced a false rape accusation after breaking out in laughter while fucking one with a beer bottle in front of a group (the witnesses saved them there).

History has shown that an alpha with no scruples can inspire others to engage in some terrible acts, but there's a lot in this story that doesn't add up. That beer bottle is the icing on the cake. The unlikely breakage aside there's still the throw itself to contend with. Really, who does that?

Post: #55

The frat house involved in the story has already been vandalized this week. Based on an allegation with no evidence. What a world we are living in.

I've got a few UVA friends on my facebook who are posting different pieces by girls claiming to have been assaulted on that campus as well. The match has truly been lit.

Example: http://wanderlustalmanac.wordpress.com/2...-virginia/

Her blog sub-title is "Sophistry of a self-styled new-age cowgirl vagabond", which is vomit worthy. In the post she says

Quote:I still love U.Va., a fact that is not swayed by another fact: I was also assaulted at U.Va., right on Thomas Jefferson’s lawn, when I was 19.

My nineteen-year-old self had a pretty poor gauge of the sociological context of sexual assault, the broader implications of sexual violence going unaddressed, or the socio-political environment that might prompt, say, a large-scale cover-up of sexual assault at a university to preserve the reputation of the institution and to ensure cash flow. In my assessment, the only person at fault was the perpetrator, whom I never confronted legally, who went on to assault at least one other girl, and who occasionally still emails me to ask what’s up. I didn’t even know that Title IX entitled me to a safe environment as an extension of my right to equal education.

She was sexually assaulted by someone right on the lawn in the open by someone that still emails her? It was a sexual assault that she didn't even bother to report?

Hmm.

Post: #56

It is so obvious this is fake.

-Being brutally raped on top of broken glass for three hours could easily kill someone. The person would continue to get more and more lacerations and might bleed out. Even if she survived that kind of trauma, she would need to be rushed to the ER. The fact that she supposedly went to her lifeguard job two weeks later and there was no mention of horrific cuts all over her back and arms is impossible to believe.

-Being violently assaulted by seven men at the same time is something an 18 year old girl would tell her parents. Any parent that gave two fucks about their daughter would immediately take action and get the police involved and they would get her the fuck away from the school, the violent monsters who raped her, and piece of shit friends who didn't take her to the hospital and were more worried about not being allowed back to the frat's parties than their friend dying.

-Nobody would be worried about "social suicide" after such a violent, traumatic experience, especially after only being at the school for a month, and then stay in school and just keep failing classes for the next year and a half.

Notice how nobody is specifically named as an attacker even though she supposedly knew at least two of them and the others are well known on campus. Every other time in these media he said/she said rape cases, the accused is named whether it turns out he actually raped or was falsely accused. This story is completely made up, unlike other high profile false rape cases when there is real, named people involved and the "rape" turns out to just be consensual sex and the girl felt used, regretted it, ect.

It's pretty clear this story has been in the works for a long time. I imagine they are going to pass some new widespread draconian measure for colleges and they need some horrific story like this to garner support.

This is the CampusRapeVictim Industial Complex's September 11th.

Post: #57

And stuff like this are why I have several archives of evidence for every girl I fuck out on my campus. Pictures, text messages, and a soon to be video. Pity the broad who tries to call false rape against me. I'll have her selling her fucking ovaries to pay for that defamation suit.

Post: #58

(11-22-2014 12:30 AM)iamdegaussed Wrote:  And stuff like this are why I have several archives of evidence for every girl I fuck out on my campus. Pictures, text messages, and a soon to be video. Pity the broad who tries to call false rape against me. I'll have her selling her fucking ovaries to pay for that defamation suit.

You are currently a college student?

What happens if you get expelled? What is going to be the cost of recovering that college education? What college is going to accept you after you have been expelled on anything to do with the word S-E-X?

Regarding your evidence of consent, your video and audio taped evidence will be essentially inadmissible. It all depends on where you live of course. In the U.S. those laws vary by state.

The campus Title IX office might clear you of the sex assault charges, but illegal recording ... they might very well use that to get rid of you anyway.

Look at it this way: I'm pretty scared of driving drunk, not because I think doing so will cause harm to society, but because of the penalties. Roughly speaking, it's about $10K. I really, really avoid driving drunk because it just might lead to a $10K penalty. And, not to brag, but a $10K payment wouldn't exactly bankrupt me. Expulsion will cost you a LOT more than $10K. Could easily be $100K. Maybe it costs your parents, now, but remember that money is ultimately yours.

Would you commit a crime if you knew there was a chance that you would be caught and face a penalty up to and exceeding $100K?

Okay, fuck your coeds if you want to, but my advice is this: If it's a one night stand, you become a complete beta pussy to her afterward. Show up at her doorstep with a dozen roses and start planning your families together. She'll get rid of you in sheer disgust and you will actually be free.

Look - Rolling Stone was willing to publish an article based almost entirely on a woman's retelling of something that she says happened to her almost two years ago. Who the hell has this little journalistic responsibility? The unfortunate answer is, damn near everyone. Look at how easy it was to fan these flames.

So, you piss off some girl? She says you forced yourself on her? Maybe you kind of did, and she went along with it. You think the university is going to take a chance and keep you around? Especially when you step forward with audio and video recordings, surreptitiously obtained? Doesn't that make you, well, a little bit rapey?

If they don't kick you out, they run the risk of you going to Rolling Stone.

If they do kick you out, they risk a lawsuit that has no chance, and whose defense rests on the instructions of the federal government.

Which do you think they're going to do? Which would YOU do in their shoes?

Look, it's your life. But if I were your dad I would be telling you what I tell my kids: No contact. No sex. Find your sex outside campus. Your college education is too valuable for this. It's not a chance I would take.

Post: #59

The day I hand over my balls and stop trying to have sex on campus is the day they win.

Your advice isn't wrong, it's just not something I can bring myself to do.

Post: #60

Okay, my friend, just watch your step. You're in a fucking minefield.

Post: #61

Don't worry if they throw you out of college you aren't losing anything valuable anyways.

Post: #62

(11-22-2014 12:25 AM)iamdegaussed Wrote:  Her blog sub-title is "Sophistry of a self-styled new-age cowgirl vagabond", which is vomit worthy. In the post she says

Quote:I still love U.Va., a fact that is not swayed by another fact: I was also assaulted at U.Va., right on Thomas Jefferson’s lawn, when I was 19.

My nineteen-year-old self had a pretty poor gauge of the sociological context of sexual assault, the broader implications of sexual violence going unaddressed, or the socio-political environment that might prompt, say, a large-scale cover-up of sexual assault at a university to preserve the reputation of the institution and to ensure cash flow. In my assessment, the only person at fault was the perpetrator, whom I never confronted legally, who went on to assault at least one other girl, and who occasionally still emails me to ask what’s up. I didn’t even know that Title IX entitled me to a safe environment as an extension of my right to equal education.

Note her use of language. That's not how normal people communicate, that's college-educated feminist talk. The sort of thing one might learn in, say, UVA's Feminist and Queer Anthropology classes, or any one of their dozens of other courses in feminist grievance:

http://wgs.virginia.edu/course_descriptions_panel

Quote:Issues, questions and topics include (but are not limited to): positionality, intersectionality, post-colonialism, feminist and queer archeology, contact zones, feminist and queer critiques of socio-biology and nature, performativity, practice theory, and ethnography of self. In addition to these theoretical explorations, we also consider strategies for teaching and learning about gender and sexuality in classrooms that are also often complex contact zones

And what else do they teach in Women's Studies courses?

Quote:Rapists serve all men by enforcing male supremacy

http://theothermccain.com/2014/09/21/ess...supremacy/

This sort of doctrinaire feminist conspiracy ideation isn't arrived at spontaneously, it is taught in thousands of lecture theatres at colleges all across the Western world.

When impressionable teenage girls arrive at university and are told, by professors they look up to, that all heterosexual sex is rape, and that rapists serve all men by enforcing male supremacy, is it any wonder that some of them go off the rails?

We're told Jackie of Rolling Stone fame took an anthropology class. I wonder how many radical feminist courses she's imbibed in the last two years, and how that has helped shape her narrative about the alleged gang rape she endured.

Post: #63

(11-22-2014 01:49 AM)Shortest Straw Wrote:  Regarding your evidence of consent, your video and audio taped evidence will be essentially inadmissible. It all depends on where you live of course. In the U.S. those laws vary by state.

I disagree. The kids in Hofstra case were cleared of their false rape accusation because the consensual sexual encounter was videotaped. Indeed, we have a thread discussing the legality of videotaping sex for the purposes of making evidence should a false rape charge be made:

/thread-42634.html

Post: #64

UVA suspends all fraternities activities.

Quote:Faced with mounting pressure from students, faculty and alumni, University of Virginia President Teresa A. Sullivan suspended all campus fraternities Saturday, an action prompted by a searing magazine account of an alleged 2012 gang rape inside a U-Va. fraternity house.

Quote:Reid said many U-Va. fraternities would typically host holiday dances, parties or fundraisers over the coming weeks that will now be canceled.

Wow.

How does this solve anything? The article names one fraternity. Do academic fraternities or faith-based fraternities belong on the same list?

This is the problem with feminism. In one leap they've gone from "this guy committed a rape" to "all men are rapists."

Post: #65

Pure hysteria and baseless accusations to get rid of the fraternities. How pathetic.

There is also a financial incentive for Universities to get rid of frats; most frats sit on valuable campus land, and these universities want the land for their own purposes.

Post: #66

More and more I think attending college is a bad idea. It's like that quote from Good Will Hunting, “You dropped a hundred and fifty grand on an education you coulda got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library.” But now if you have sex with a girl, you're life might very well be ruined, too. Fun times.

Post: #67

(11-22-2014 09:29 PM)Switch Wrote:  More and more I think attending college is a bad idea. It's like that quote from Good Will Hunting, “You dropped a hundred and fifty grand on an education you coulda got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library.” But now if you have sex with a girl, you're life might very well be ruined, too. Fun times.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Post: #68

(11-22-2014 12:25 AM)iamdegaussed Wrote:  The frat house involved in the story has already been vandalized this week. Based on an allegation with no evidence. What a world we are living in.

I've got a few UVA friends on my facebook who are posting different pieces by girls claiming to have been assaulted on that campus as well. The match has truly been lit.

Example: http://wanderlustalmanac.wordpress.com/2...-virginia/

Her blog sub-title is "Sophistry of a self-styled new-age cowgirl vagabond", which is vomit worthy. In the post she says

Quote:I still love U.Va., a fact that is not swayed by another fact: I was also assaulted at U.Va., right on Thomas Jefferson’s lawn, when I was 19.

My nineteen-year-old self had a pretty poor gauge of the sociological context of sexual assault, the broader implications of sexual violence going unaddressed, or the socio-political environment that might prompt, say, a large-scale cover-up of sexual assault at a university to preserve the reputation of the institution and to ensure cash flow. In my assessment, the only person at fault was the perpetrator, whom I never confronted legally, who went on to assault at least one other girl, and who occasionally still emails me to ask what’s up. I didn’t even know that Title IX entitled me to a safe environment as an extension of my right to equal education.

She was sexually assaulted by someone right on the lawn in the open by someone that still emails her? It was a sexual assault that she didn't even bother to report?

Hmm.

Actually, a sexual assault where the alleged perpetrator is not even aware it was a sexual assault.

Post: #69

You know, this makes me more angry at the women who say their ambiguous drunk hookup is "rape." How dare you compare your slutty behavior to a woman who got pinned down by multiple men. Actually rape victims should be screaming in the street at these slut walkers trying to claim that their experience of "stare-rape" deserves a greater spotlight than actual assault.

Post: #70

My room mate here went to UVA and was in a frat.

He was reading about it today and was really upset about it, not sure if because he thinks its bullshit or if he believes it and is ashamed. I'm gonna ask him about it and see what he thinks, I'll report back.

Post: #71

A lot of great comments and insights.

I don't have a lot to add. A few things though. At first I was sympathetic and believed the story of the rape, still not sure how much of it is true or not, but then I got past the few couple of paragraphs and entered the feminist speak of the article and it seems far more likely to be fake to me. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the entire scenario is made up. Hell, maybe Jackie doesn't even exist. Or maybe she does and is in on it with the writer. Either way, it wouldn't be the first time feminists make up fake rape and abuse claims to further their political agendas. Remember the fat feminist who wrote threats to herself on her facebook page?

Here is the link to it: http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=4731

Here is a quote: "The obscene message directed at activist Meg Lanker-Simons was posted on a college “crush” Facebook page earlier this week and immediately ignited outrage from the college community.

“I want to hate f**k Meg Lanker-Simons so hard. That chick that runs her liberal mouth all the time and doesn’t care who knows it,” it read. “I think its hot and it makes me angry. One night with me and shes gonna be a good Republican bitch,” the post reads, according to a screenshot."

The language of the piece reads in a similar way to me. It all sounds fabricated.

To be honest, I don't really even like frats all that much. I wasn't in one. However, I did spend quite a few years at a state university that is always in Playboys top ten party school list and gets the number one spot every now and then. I have been to a few frat parties and have been friends with and roomed with frat guys.

One of my problems with them is that I actually wasn't all that impressed by them. Most, but not all, seemed somewhat beta or at least normal. Did they get laid more than most guys on campus, sure. But one of my friends that I roomed with, who had played football in highschool and was a bit of a player and a popular guy, only got laid once or maybe twice during the year we shared an apartment together. The few frat parties I went to turned me off. The booze was cheap, the floors sticky, and the place a mess and smelled. The thing that blew my mind about it was that women wanted to get in there to party.

The best party's at my school were off campus in the houses and apt. complexes. This was partly due to the campus being a dry campus and the frats being fined for alcohol and other problems. It was also largely due to the frats having so much other shit to do than party. That was one reason why I never joined. I didn't want to have to do all the volunteer and community outreach shit or deal with all the organization crap. Why spend wens. night doing that type of stuff when I could get drunk and party?

Do frats rape? There were a few that were known as the rape frats. But I actually doubt it happened there more than the house parties. If it did happen I doubt it was the forceful type of rape and more likely either regret sex or on the few occasions maybe passed out sex which is rape.

Anyways. There are a lot of things about this that don't make sense and you guys have covered most of it. The biggest thing to me is that this allegedly happened and she knew her rapists. I would be far more likely to believe something like this happening if they picked her up off the street at gun point or something. Hell, if they were 7 MS-13 gang members who dropped her off on the side of the road after raping her then I would believe the story. Odds are, if this is true, then she was incredibly lucky that night. Usually when a group of people do this type of thing they end up killing the person and trying to dispose of the body for fear of being found out.

I know this to be true because I was friends with Christian Shannon and her boyfriend (google for the story if you want to read something sick).

Leaving aside some other parts of the story, I have to ask where the fuck her dorm mates or RA was? Hell, at my freshman dorm the female RAs on the female side of the dorm were the biggest cock blocks. If you were found sneaking around after curfew with your gf/fuck buddy or found out in the morning after staying the night, you got into serious trouble even by some of the cooler RAs. No way, at least in my experience, would the front desk night person or an RA allowed a beaten and bloody woman to come strolling in and not say anything. They would have taken her to campus police because if they didn't they would have gotten in trouble. Also, in my experience most freshman dorms, at least the common areas, are going hardcore 24/7. Surely there would have been at least a few people, not to mention all the fucking cameras in the place, to see her coming through the entrance? I find it unlikely that they wouldn't have helped her. Or at least told a front desk person or RA.

Post: #72

(11-22-2014 08:01 PM)runsonmagic Wrote:  UVA suspends all fraternities activities.

Quote:Faced with mounting pressure from students, faculty and alumni, University of Virginia President Teresa A. Sullivan suspended all campus fraternities Saturday, an action prompted by a searing magazine account of an alleged 2012 gang rape inside a U-Va. fraternity house.

Quote:Reid said many U-Va. fraternities would typically host holiday dances, parties or fundraisers over the coming weeks that will now be canceled.

Wow.

How does this solve anything? The article names one fraternity. Do academic fraternities or faith-based fraternities belong on the same list?

This is the problem with feminism. In one leap they've gone from "this guy committed a rape" to "all men are rapists."

No, in this case they've gone from "some guys were accused of rape in a feminist propaganda piece without any evidence or any charges being brought" to "all men are rapists". Oh, and this decision was made by the first female president of UVA, former sociology professor (shocking!) Teresa Sullivan. In other words, everything is going according to the usual script.

Post: #73

Cutting in here. I went to UVA. It's an amazing place but has a dark side, and you definitely feel the impact of the wealthy southern legacy students. Wasn't in a frat and didn't witness first hand hazing rituals but there were indeed frats which were occupied and run by tone-deaf sociopaths. To give an example (not rape related) during my time there, there was a "plantation party" where pledges were dressed in blackface and forced to pick cotton in the front yard while senior members berated them in Thomas Jefferson/Colonel Sanders style garb. UVA was segregated at that time to the point where there was an unofficial "black bus stop" in the middle of campus; a lot of it was probably self-segregation because african-american students seemed to feel they needed to stick together due to the racist environment of the old-boy network there.

The beta bridge right at the start of rugby road where the frats are had rape jokes about it of girls being pulled under the bridge to "pay the toll". I remember there being a few reported incidents while I was there in the Cavalier Daily, but I didn't look up the police reports. Reading the RS article was like watching a horror movie where one of the characters goes down into an unlit basement to check out a noise and you think to yourself "don't go down there, don't you know what is about to happen?" The gang-rape hazing ritual is much worse than what I thought was going to happen, but it certainly sounds believable.

People have jumped on individual details in the article. 3 hours, broken shards digging into her back, etc. I've had my car window smashed while I was driving and I and 4 other people in the car were completely showered in glass, we still drove home another 30 minutes, it took a while to pick all the tiny shards of glass out of hair/clothes etc. but none of us had to go to the hospital. Most tables are made of tempered glass, it's the same thing (but different from laminated glass used in the windshield), and shatters differently from an old window in a house, which leaves giant nasty shards which will cut arteries. Probably the details in her story are a little different, if it really happened, she's recounting it years later and jesus christ what a horrible experience. It's believable though, and so is the dialogue and the nicknames. Frat guys do say things like "Don't you want to be a brother?" and call each other pussy constantly. Unless things have changed a lot, they also scream faggot at each other or at passers by, and they do throw bottles and glasses at people and break shit. If people here don't find that believable and you also went to rich state schools, maybe UVA really is different.


RS is publishing more (anonymous) letters now. You might dismiss all this stuff as hearsay as well - it is all just the words of individuals against other individuals, and you're right, it wouldn't hold up in court.

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news...e-20141121

Post: #74

(11-23-2014 07:19 AM)Troll King Wrote:  Leaving aside some other parts of the story, I have to ask where the fuck her dorm mates or RA was? Hell, at my freshman dorm the female RAs on the female side of the dorm were the biggest cock blocks. If you were found sneaking around after curfew with your gf/fuck buddy or found out in the morning after staying the night, you got into serious trouble even by some of the cooler RAs. No way, at least in my experience, would the front desk night person or an RA allowed a beaten and bloody woman to come strolling in and not say anything. They would have taken her to campus police because if they didn't they would have gotten in trouble. Also, in my experience most freshman dorms, at least the common areas, are going hardcore 24/7. Surely there would have been at least a few people, not to mention all the fucking cameras in the place, to see her coming through the entrance? I find it unlikely that they wouldn't have helped her. Or at least told a front desk person or RA.

The "New Dorms" at UVA are set up sortof like apartments. There aren't RAs living in each one and there's no door person, no cameras, etc. Maybe your roommate isn't around who knows. I lived in old dorms, which are more like what you see in college movies - there's an RA on each floor. Still only saw him a few times a week.

Post: #75

(11-22-2014 08:18 PM)Samseau Wrote:  Pure hysteria and baseless accusations to get rid of the fraternities. How pathetic.

There is also a financial incentive for Universities to get rid of frats; most frats sit on valuable campus land, and these universities want the land for their own purposes.

Quite the opposite, the greek system is a pipeline for alumni donations, which is what keeps UVA running. Long-term the greek system and football program are totally untouchable - UVA is a business and pretty much all the income comes from those two systems. They can temporarily suspend the frats to make a show of being serious about the accusations, which is a very smart move, but it would be economic suicide to shut them down permanently.