Post: #1

So weightlifting has become a big part of my life. I went from lanky in college to noticeably built, and it was a complete game-changer for me across the board.

Then I hurt my back playing basketball. I could barely walk for a month, and as soon as I could I started experiencing crippling sciatica pain all the way down my leg to the ankle. I was forced out of the gym for months, and dropped 15lbs. I was traveling a lot for work and I'd heard the only cure is time, so stupidly I never saw a doctor until a couple months ago. She told me I'd herniated my L5-S1 disc, which was compressing the sciatic nerve. I started doing rehab, and things got significantly better. Then recently I was lifting in the gym, bent down to pick up some 25lb dumbbells, and when I tried to straighten back up I felt something give and then blinding pain. Turns out I further herniated the disc, even though I was lifting negligible weight and with good form.

My questions are basically this:
1) Do I have to choose between weightlifting and back/sciatica pain? I don't think I could have been much more careful in the gym. I completely cut out squats and deadlifts, and was mostly doing machines, but I still fucked myself up again.

2) Has anyone here ever had a similar injury and completely bounced back? Did you just rehab, or go the surgical route? I'm at my wits end with this shit...

Post: #2

Jesus man, stop lifting! You are going to make things worse. I had ruptured/herniated lower back discs, and could barely move until I had it operated on. The pain was unbelievable, couldn't stand anymore, or do anything really. It feels like someone is stabbing you 24/7, along with a burning pain that doesn't go away. My doctor at the time also told me that "minimally invasive" laser surgery is a sham.

You'll need to have that excess jelly that's pinching your nerve removed. Find a good doctor, be warned that the longer your discs are pinching your nerves, the higher chance of some permanent damage. For example, I've lost feeling in my left leg all the way to my toes, I can move it fine, but there is not much feeling there. Not fixing the problem for a year didn't help. Did your doctor not tell you to stop lifting? I'd find another if that's the case (I'd get a male doctor for something like this, I wouldn't trust a female on something as important as this, but that's just my thought on it). I chose a highly rated doctor who wasn't too old, nor too young (More than 40, less than 60), I'm sure there's been some new back operating techniques introduced over the years is why.

I was ordered by my doc to never lift again, and to not run ( I used to lift a lot, can't anymore). He said I can only ride a bicycle, swim, or walk. From the sound of what you are describing, the problem is only going to get worse. I'd take care of it now, get this fixed early. That "compression" bs doesn't work either, honestly I'd recommend the surgery route, but please do more research on this.

Post: #3

**I realize this should probably be in the weightlifting/fitness forum**

(11-05-2014 09:07 AM)Engineering Bandicoot Wrote:  Jesus man, stop lifting! You are going to make things worse. I had ruptured/herniated lower back discs, and could barely move until I had it operated on. The pain was unbelievable, couldn't stand anymore, or do anything really. It feels like someone is stabbing you 24/7, along with a burning pain that doesn't go away.

I stopped lifting for about 5 months, and only started back up once the rehab started to kick in. I honestly thought I'd turned the corner on this thing, the re-injury took me completely by surprise. The pain is exactly as you described. I spent most of the summer closing my office door and working from by back on the floor, and my leg still throbbed.

(11-05-2014 09:07 AM)Engineering Bandicoot Wrote:  I was ordered by my doc to never lift again

As in for the rest of your life?? Jesus, that seems extreme. Can you not just do workarounds, like only certain machine exercises?

(11-05-2014 09:07 AM)Engineering Bandicoot Wrote:  honestly I'd recommend the surgery route, but please do more research on this.

I think that's probably what I'll end up doing, although I hope to try rehab for another month first.

Thanks for the response.

Post: #4

This is my area of expertise as a physician

You will be able to go back to lifting, but should avoid dead and squats

Literature is strong on your chance to return to ball. Larry bird and John Nash did without surgery I think

BTW I had surgery for this and returned to ball

You need to get referred to a fellowship trained interventional pain specialist. Your doc should have done that for you

Or PM me your MRI results

Post: #5

I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, but if the two 25 lb dumbbells ruptured or worsened a ruptured disk, their weight was anything but insignificant.

The point is you have to asses things as what they really are , rather than how they are viewed in the "lift heavy , be strong" macho mindset.

Post: #6

Quote:She did, but she's also a tiny woman who has never lifted in her life, so I decided to trust my body (I felt much stronger). A mistake.

That made me laugh a bit. So I guess her years of study/experience about bones/discs etc played second fiddle because she is a women?

Go do pull ups when you feel better.

Post: #7

[deleted]

Post: #8

(11-05-2014 10:48 AM)Sandman Wrote:  This is my area of expertise as a physician

You will be able to go back to lifting, but should avoid dead and squats

Literature is strong on your chance to return to ball. Larry bird and John Nash did without surgery I think

BTW I had surgery for this and returned to ball

You need to get referred to a fellowship trained interventional pain specialist. Your doc should have done that for you

Or PM me your MRI results

Sandman, thanks for the response. I just emailed my doc for the MRI results, right now I just have his evaluation of them (this was before my recent re-injury):

"Central and right paracentral disc herniation at L5-S1 which is
particularly causing displacement and compression of the traversing right
S1 nerve root in the right lateral recess"

That's good to hear about lifting/ball. I haven't played a game since last December, and it's driving me crazy. And squats and deadlifts are forever out of my routine!

(11-05-2014 11:22 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, but if the two 25 lb dumbbells ruptured or worsened a ruptured disk, their weight was anything but insignificant.

The point is you have to asses things as what they really are , rather than how they are viewed in the "lift heavy , be strong" macho mindset.

I completely agree with you. The reason I mentioned the lightness of the weight wasn't to be macho, but to highlight how from out of nowhere the second injury was. I mean, looking back it could have conceivably happened just from bending over to pick up my suitcase, which is a scary thought.

Post: #9

Girlfriend was laid up for a year with the same debilitating sciatica pain. Had a microdiscectomy and it was lifechanging. I'm not personally a fan of surgery after dealing with a loooong rotator cuff recovery from a half assed repair but it seems from what I read the only way to get rid of nerve pain is to remove the disc matter that is pushing in on the spinal column.

Good luck. She was back to full speed in about a month.

Post: #10

(11-05-2014 11:52 AM)Seamus Wrote:  

(11-05-2014 11:36 AM)jimukr104 Wrote:  

Quote:She did, but she's also a tiny woman who has never lifted in her life, so I decided to trust my body (I felt much stronger). A mistake.

That made me laugh a bit. So I guess her years of study/experience about bones/discs etc played second fiddle because she is a women?

Go do pull ups when you feel better.

If you do some reading online you'll realize there's no strict medical consensus that with disc herniation or sciatica weight training becomes verboten. In fact, some doctors recommend the opposite, on the theory that a stronger body results in a better supported back. Look upthread and you'll see two doctors with two opposite opinions on the issue.

Talking to her she obviously thought anabolic training was pointless in the first place. That's a person who clearly doesn't understand my outlook, regardless of gender. I was/am willing to sacrifice some pain to keep weightlifting a part of my life (something my physical therapist was on board with as well).

No doubt..we weren't there to hear the whole conversation.
That is why I recommended pull ups. It is a good exercise for strengthening the back and spine and abs. If you did that a while I would think you might have been better prepared. Free weights and bending that one does when dealing with them is always a risk.

Post: #11

[deleted]

Post: #12

I can speak for the signal injury camp, broke my T12 vertebra and was actually paralyzed for about 2 weeks while gradually getting back the ability to move my legs and such. Its really just smart programming, a lot of work, and a little bit of stupidity tied in. You've got to be willing to go a little out of the scope of work that physiotherapists and doctors will tell you to do, but doing it with proper form and such. Its an injury that can be overcome, just look at Peyton Manning and his neck issues. He couldn't even throw a ball at one point in his recovery.

Post: #13

One of the members here clued me into the Mckenzie method, which is basically a fancy name for a few basic exercises designed to alleviate acute back/sciatica pain.


I've been doing it for 4-5 days now, and I've definitely noticed an improvement. It's too soon to tell obviously how lasting the benefit will be, but I'm cautiously optimistic. Just a PSA for anyone going through similar pain.

Post: #14

1. Stop weightlifting entirely for a time, perhaps permanently. Focus on low impact training such as elliptical bikes, nautilus machines, yoga, and perhaps dance lessons. If you go back to weightlifting, do so very cautiously. Your back will never be the same, accept that and adapt. There is no stem cell magic replacement for bad discs. It really isn't the end of the world. I'm 6'3", and women find me more attractive when I am lean and healthy with a muscular swimmer's build at 190-195lbs. When I was doing steroids and 220 plus, a certain subset of trashy/uneducated women came at me more often, but that may have had more to do with my caveman mentality than anything else.

2. Do not do surgery unless you have no other choice!!! Tiger Woods has an unlimited budget and his disc surgery didn't work. Also, fusion is even worse - http://www.cbsnews.com/news/tapping-into...urgeries/.
I have had 3 separate MRIs since 2008 relating to multiple episodes of severe and debilitating pain.
I have several herniated discs. A year ago, I was very close to either paying 30K out of pocket to this turd doctor in LA who runs the "Back Institute" for some cleverly marketed minimally invasive surgery, or doing a multi level fusion with a local neurosurgeon (would have been covered by insurance mostly, but with a price tag of 50K).
Both of these doctors/businessmen strongly recommended that I buy what they were selling (shocking, I know). They don't really give a shit about you and what complications you might face.
Luckily, I remembered that the father of this girl I used to date back in the day is a orthopedic surgeon. Turns out he was semi retired and doing consulting for insurance companies that were suing doctors who performed unnecessary back surgeries. He looked at my MRIs, talked with me about options, and gave me solid advice. He said:
1. There is no replacement for discs that works. Many different materials have been tried.
2. Removing part of a herniated disk via surgery is no more effective than just waiting. At the 6 month and 1 year mark, both approaches have an equal success rate.
3. Fusion surgery has a long recovery period, and carries a massive risk of debilitating complications.
4. Back surgery is really only a good idea if your pain is debilitating, does not go away, and you have already done everything you can reasonably do in terms of lifestyle adjustment and rehabilitation.

Post: #15

Surprised nobody has mentioned an epidural steroid injection. Very safe, can be very effective, low risk. Go to a pain medicine physician who has completed a pain medicine fellowship

Post: #16

I struggled with herniated disc problems for many years. I'd been a serious weightlifter since my teenage years and that's how I originally injured myself.
I had to quit heavy weight lifting for sometime to let my body heal.

However, you will definitely be able to lift again just like before, if not better.

What worked for me was correcting flexibility and strength problems and working out trigger points. Your problem areas are something you'll have to figure out for yourself. In my case, my hamstrings, glutes, hip flexors, and inner thighs were all really tight and had trigger points. I also realized my core strength was not anywhere as strong as I thought. Once I fixed these problems, my posture improved, my back stopped hurting and I could start lifting heavier weights again. Just don't forget these issues, you'll need to stay vigilant as I've found it's hard to undue a lifetime of bad habits.

I did lose some muscle during the injury & rehab but wound up being much leaner/harder. I focused a lot on bodyweight exercises, then transitioned to functional barbell training, mostly light/medium weight deadlifts.

Hope this helps.

Post: #17

I had the same problem for a quite a while. It was so bad that I walked slower than a 90 year old man. Physical Therapy helped, but it would come back again.

I suffered a great deal until my cousin gave me the book, "Healing Back Pain", by Dr. Sarnos.

http://www.healingbackpain.com

I didn't read it until I suffered a huge attack right after Thanksgiving and couldn't stand up. I was crawling on all fours in my apt. I read the book out of desperation and it saved my life. By the time the long weekend was over I was completely better and have been ever since.

I could give you a summary of what the book says, but I'm worried I wouldn't do it justice and would take away from the power of it. Spend the $15 and buy it. It's probably cheaper than your co-pay.

I will say this. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOUR BACK. IT IS THE STRONGEST PART OF YOUR BODY. YOU MUST KNOW AND BELIEVE THIS TO BE TRUE. That is the first step.

I know some reading this may say, "You're not a doctor, blah, blah, blah" Well, I know my own experience and that of the others I recommended it to and thanked me later.

I don't have a financial interest in the book, medical industry or it's multi-billion dollar back pain field. I'm just a regular guy like you who once suffered greatly and needlessly.

Post: #18

I’ve had this diagnosis last month. It scared the crap out of me. The pain was debilitating and I really thought my quality of life was over and I’ll be dependent on pain meds for the rest of my life. I like the pragmatic responses here versus the worse-case scenario discussions you read when searching online. It’s been almost a month now. I’ve stopped taking pain meds. The pain is pretty much gone, except I could feel a bit of pressure on my lower back here and there. If I didn’t get an mri I probably would have just ignored it so I could say I’m pretty much back to baseline health now - knock on wood. I’m very careful now with my physical activities. I’d rather live a boring life (no extreme sports, heavy lifting etc) than to further herniate my disc which could lead to nerve pain and the thing I’m most worried about aside from chronic pain - sexual dysfunction lol. I already know that stationary bike will be my go to cardio exercise when I’m ready to get back at it again. And the suggestion for pull ups here is a good one. I look forward to traveling more again in the future. Did you guys find traveling difficult now due to this condition? Like being worried if you’ll have a bad flare up in a city with poor access to health care service or medications? Or being worried that traveling long distance could be too much for your body to handle and could be agravating the injury?

Would like to hear more stories from guys here who’ve had this issue and still recovering or fully recovered from this.

@onto, @seamus, and the rest of the guys here. How are you all doing now?

Post: #19

I have a pars defect and herniated disc L5/S1. Manage with leg press, squats and deads when able. Sometimes getting stacked in jiu-jitsu gives me issues. Yoga would be a good idea.

Also recommend a very, very firm mattress and lumbar support pillow when driving.

Post: #20

@checkmat

Thanks. Good to know that it didn’t stop you from doing the things you enjoy. If you can do jiu-jitsu then that’s a good sign for me that this shouldn’t significantly interfere with my life. I’m off pain meds now, 3 weeks after the initial excruciating pain. I’ve started doing the McKenzie stretch today. I also started taking calcium supplements and fish oil. I’ll let my body help for now. In a few months, I look forward to traveling again.

Post: #21

I have a pars defect and also a herniated disc further up the spine.

I came back no problems.

Will post what helps later.

DO NOT go surgical route. DO NOT.

Better to throw yourself out a high window and start a crack habit: will help you get back to lifting quicker than surgery.

Post: #22

I had sciatica so badly last summer that I had to delay moving into a new house I'd bought. I could not walk without a cane. It hurt so bad, I could not stand on my left foot unassisted! Nor could I get in and out of a car.

So here is what I did.

I stopped everything. No work. No going out. No friends. No trips to the store (I had them deliver). My July of 2017 was spent laying on my couch and watching every movie I ever wanted to see.

My thought was that one of two things would happen. If I didn't get better, I'd need disc surgery. If I did get better, my back just needed a rest.

It turned out I just needed to rest my back. I strained my back badly and herniated a disc in the lumbar spine. That takes time to heal. For me it took about five weeks total. I took no major drugs, only some Motrin. I also used a heating pad. When the pain started to gradually fade after the second week, I knew I was on the right track.

The reason I took this approach is because when my ex-wife had back pain, she didn't "listen to her body" (a cliched phrase, but a true one). She loaded herself up on meds and insisted on working her desk job. Disaster ensued. She's now on permanent disability and has been in pain on and off for 13 years.

When your body is shooting out pain signals from a muscle, ligament, tendon, or disc, that's its way of saying "Danger ahead! Stop now!" Take heed.

This isn't like when you have stomach pain or toothaches and need a cure quick. With these specific symptoms, you need to let yourself heal. Because if you press on, you might cause permanent damage.

I haven't had an iota of back trouble since last summer. I spent the winter fixing up my old place to make it a rental, and I'm now back to doing lots of resistance running (almost) daily and weight lifting every other day.

Post: #23

@bienvenuto,

Thanks for sharing. Yes, I agree and read enough online discussions about surgery - it is the last resort when you start losing bladder and bowel function. Damn. Scary thoughts. But yes, no surgery or at least it’s the very last option when the chance of a benefit outweighs the huge risk.

@days of broken arrows,

Thanks for sharing your story. And sorry to hear about your wife. I spoke with someone with the same issue for 2 years. He said he’s being having on and off pain for the last couple of years. Nothing that a mild pain med or anti-inflammatory can’t take care of. I’ve also read that about 90% will fully recover from this type of injury/disease and there’s the 10% who are not as fortunate. I hope your ex wife is otherwise doing okay or will do better in the future. I bought an adjustable standing desk today for those days I have to sit (and stand) long hours in front of the computer. I’m taking a very proactive and measured approach to prevent this from happening again or at least slow down the progression of the issue.

Post: #24

(11-20-2014 06:34 AM)Onto Wrote:  I will say this. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOUR BACK. IT IS THE STRONGEST PART OF YOUR BODY. YOU MUST KNOW AND BELIEVE THIS TO BE TRUE. That is the first step.

I know some reading this may say, "You're not a doctor, blah, blah, blah" Well, I know my own experience and that of the others I recommended it to and thanked me later.

I don't have a financial interest in the book, medical industry or it's multi-billion dollar back pain field. I'm just a regular guy like you who once suffered greatly and needlessly.

As a PT this makes me happy to hear. This is exactly what we try to instill in our patients.

Take away the fear of movement and nocebo that some doctors incur, get moving in an adapted and increasingly demanding way, and watch the transformation.

Post: #25

I had a terrible disc herniation 2 years ago. I could bearly move. I rolled out of bed and shuffled around the house. Eventually it did get better but not 100 %. I still get radiating pain down my right leg.

Based on my personal experience and my reading I side with the opinion of -

Surgery is the last resort. Only if you have actual motor weakness or bladder bowl dysfunction should you consider surgery. Although people like to look at Tiger Woods as a success story of back surgery. If you look at it more closely. He had several failed surgeries and become addicted to narcotics. Not saying that is a common outcome, but back surgery is not like fixing a broken wrist. Positive outcome is not guaranteed. And a fraction of the people become dependent on narcotics while dealing with post operative pain.

- Keep moving. Cautiously of course. But as soon as you can start going outdoors for walks. There is a big psychiatric component to back pain. Back pain causes negativity and sedentary lifestyle leading to depression and further magnify the pain.

As soon as I could I do light walking, very light core exercise. Gradually I started doing curls with very light dumbbells and some easy triceps push down to keep my arms toned.

You gonna have to cautiously experiment but at the same time push yourself a tiny bit. For me surprising a light round of basketball shoot around actually make me feel better. And bending over to stretch my hamstring and back make me feel better. This is contrary to the recommendation of keeping the spine neutral. I am not recommending my specific activity. It might make your pain worse. You’ll really have to Expedia don’t listen to your body, but don’t be too afraid.

For me even light dumbbell bench press worsen my pain, but a short set of push up is not too bad.

Also by limiting your movements you cause tightness in certain muscle groups that may cause problems in other areas like hip and knee.

I got Dr. Sarno’s book but I didn’t read too much of it. I probably should go back and read it.

100% agree with the PT about getting your body moving. The challenge is that there will not be a one size fit all rehab exercise. You run into set back and you just have to keep experimenting and keep you body moving.

You will be healthy and active again, but setting goals to squat 300 lbs or deadlift 400 lbs is probably not the right mind set either.