Post: #1

Hey guys, long time lurker first time poster. I've got a question for the NYC guys: is living in NYC doable at all on $30,000 a year? I am thinking about applying for a job with FDNY as an EMT, because the way it works is if you work for a few years as an EMT you are eligible to promote to firefighter. My goal is to become a professional firefighter, and FDNY is generally regarded as the best department out there. Plus it's very traditional and much less PC compared to other departments, even with all the women suing to get on. The only problem is that starting salary for an FDNY EMT is $31,000. I'm completely fine with having a roommate, using public transportation, not eating out and generally budgeting hard, but will I be able to have a social life and go out on this kind of money? FDNY is my dream department and this is a great opportunity to get on, but is living in NYC on this kind of salary worth it?

Post: #2

This seems like a legitimate post. Do you have any savings? Do you have any debts like student loans or credit cards? If your only expenses will be rent (with roommates), food, and public transportation costs, then it is doable, but things will be really tight. It may be worth it if you will be making decent money in the future. $30, 000 is rough anywhere. In New York, it is more than rough, but I could see it working under the right circumstances.

Post: #3

redacted

Post: #4

There are many thousands of welfare recipients living in NYC on less than that. If they can so can you.

Post: #5

(11-05-2014 12:16 AM)ashraf Wrote:  There are many thousands of welfare recipients living in NYC on less than that. If they can so can you.

If you want to call that "living"...

Post: #6

As far as cities go, NYC is the most fiscally sound so you'll have to less to worry about them going bankrupt or screwing you out of your pension.

The retirement pension is where the real money is made with these jobs. Also as a firefighter you can make side money if you have another trade. Mason, carpenter, etc, because firefighters often have several days off to compensate for being on call for long hours.

Post: #7

(11-05-2014 01:24 AM)atlant Wrote:  

(11-05-2014 12:16 AM)ashraf Wrote:  There are many thousands of welfare recipients living in NYC on less than that. If they can so can you.

If you want to call that "living"...

Nah. For the most part, welfare recipients just don't know how to manage their money. Easy come, easy go.

If you simplified your life and implemented some of the strategies and paradigms discussed in books like "Your Money or Your Life" and "Early Retirement Extreme," I suspect NYC would very doable on this budget.

Whether it's worth it depends on what is most important to you in life and what you're trying to achieve.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #8

After my family, the fire service is the most important thing in my life. After that, it's pretty much just lifting weights and chasing skirt. I imagine FDNY members either have free access or heavy discounts to a gym and I'm guessing FDNY guys do alright with women so it seems like both of these things take care of themselves. I also like to travel, but I've done that on a budget before and would be willing to give it up for a few years to pursue this goal.

Post: #9

^ I say make it work.

An important to note is that the company you keep will be doing the same thing as you. This will make the lifestyle much easier to manage.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #10

(11-05-2014 01:33 AM)Onto Wrote:  As far as cities go, NYC is the most fiscally sound so you'll have to less to worry about them going bankrupt or screwing you out of your pension.

The retirement pension is where the real money is made with these jobs. Also as a firefighter you can make side money if you have another trade. Mason, carpenter, etc, because firefighters often have several days off to compensate for being on call for long hours.

I met a retired NYC firefighter making $81,000/year from his pension.

Post: #11

OP, it's doable. You can get a room for $500-$600 in the boroughs. A good place to look would be Bushwick (Brooklyn) or Ridgewood - both not too far from Manhattan. Hopefully your EMT position offers health insurance. If so, rent will be your biggest expense. $31,000 after-tax in NYC means, what, $22,000 take-home?

If you're spending $550 on rent with roommates, that's about $7,000/year on rent. Plus the broker fee and first month's rent, call it $8,000 for the first year. An unlimited metrocard each month for a year will be about $1,500. So, that's about $12,000 left over for food and entertainment. Give or take.

You just won't be going out much, or eating that well (unless you cook). If you cook, please be careful, it's easy to fall into the temptation of 'saving money' by buying shitty, inexpensive processed food - please don't do that. There are some really great international food bazaars around NYC where you can buy quality ingredients and cook at home. Just search around for 'international food bazaar' and do your shopping there. Don't become unhealthy just because you're broke!

Post: #12

I started off in Sydney on $42,000 a year. It was actually remarkably easy and simple. I walked to work, cooked at home and rented a cheap single room for $150 a week and I managed to save about $600-1,000 a fortnight. I made use of my free time by going doing cheap shit and hanging at my parents house by the lake, I also had plenty of time to pursue part time / one off jobs in the evening and weekends. Made some good contacts that way.

I'm on double that now and still only manage to save the same amount of money, though I do make 5 international trips per year.

My feeling is that NYC, especially if you're in the outer suburbs is cheaper than Sydney by quite a large margin especially when it comes to day to day costs like Public Transport and Groceries (both of these are obscenely expensive in Sydney). If you bide your time, get a good room / house mate you can cook/chill with then I think you will be more than fine.

Post: #13

(11-05-2014 05:09 AM)Yeti Wrote:  OP, it's doable. You can get a room for $500-$600 in the boroughs. A good place to look would be Bushwick (Brooklyn) or Ridgewood - both not too far from Manhattan. Hopefully your EMT position offers health insurance. If so, rent will be your biggest expense. $31,000 after-tax in NYC means, what, $22,000 take-home?

If you're spending $550 on rent with roommates, that's about $7,000/year on rent. Plus the broker fee and first month's rent, call it $8,000 for the first year. An unlimited metrocard each month for a year will be about $1,500. So, that's about $12,000 left over for food and entertainment. Give or take.

You just won't be going out much, or eating that well (unless you cook). If you cook, please be careful, it's easy to fall into the temptation of 'saving money' by buying shitty, inexpensive processed food - please don't do that. There are some really great international food bazaars around NYC where you can buy quality ingredients and cook at home. Just search around for 'international food bazaar' and do your shopping there. Don't become unhealthy just because you're broke!

This. OP, Check out Craigslist -- there are a lot of cheap one bedroom and studio apartments in Brooklyn. That's what I'll probably be doing if I don't find a stable job immediately after graduation.

If you're looking for a neighborhood with nice bars and relatively cheap places, Williamsburg is a nice choice. That is, if you enjoy the hipster scene.

Post: #14

(11-05-2014 01:56 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  An important to note is that the company you keep will be doing the same thing as you. This will make the lifestyle much easier to manage.

This is a great point. I hang out with a relatively affluent crowd (mostly i-bankers and corporate lawyers), and there is a constant pressure to spend more money than I'm comfortable with. But it cuts both ways. When I'm hanging out with old college friends, everyone's content to grab a drink at a dive bar. Surround yourself with people in the same financial situation and you'll always find a way to have fun without breaking the bank.

Post: #15

(11-05-2014 04:54 PM)game_ethic Wrote:  

(11-05-2014 05:09 AM)Yeti Wrote:  OP, it's doable. You can get a room for $500-$600 in the boroughs. A good place to look would be Bushwick (Brooklyn) or Ridgewood - both not too far from Manhattan. Hopefully your EMT position offers health insurance. If so, rent will be your biggest expense. $31,000 after-tax in NYC means, what, $22,000 take-home?

If you're spending $550 on rent with roommates, that's about $7,000/year on rent. Plus the broker fee and first month's rent, call it $8,000 for the first year. An unlimited metrocard each month for a year will be about $1,500. So, that's about $12,000 left over for food and entertainment. Give or take.

You just won't be going out much, or eating that well (unless you cook). If you cook, please be careful, it's easy to fall into the temptation of 'saving money' by buying shitty, inexpensive processed food - please don't do that. There are some really great international food bazaars around NYC where you can buy quality ingredients and cook at home. Just search around for 'international food bazaar' and do your shopping there. Don't become unhealthy just because you're broke!

This. OP, Check out Craigslist -- there are a lot of cheap one bedroom and studio apartments in Brooklyn. That's what I'll probably be doing if I don't find a stable job immediately after graduation.

If you're looking for a neighborhood with nice bars and relatively cheap places, Williamsburg is a nice choice. That is, if you enjoy the hipster scene.

This is true to an extent. Studios and 1BR's in Brooklyn, or anywhere in NYC, will generally be at least $1,000, and often at least $1,400. And you generally have to show income of 40x that - so your income would have to be $40,000 or higher. Unless you have a connection that will bypass that general screening obstacle.

When you say that there are 'cheap' studios and 1BR's in Brooklyn, how much are we talking? Show me a place that's less than $1,000.

Post: #16

Yeti Wrote:And you generally have to show income of 40x that - so your income would have to be $40,000 or higher. Unless you have a connection that will bypass that general screening obstacle.

This hasn't been my experience. Before I left for college, I lived with my mother who barely made more than $40k annually and we had a two bedroom apartment that was roughly ~$1,300 per month - we lived in Crown Heights, if that helps.

When I said "cheap" I didn't mean less than $1,000. I did mean less than $2,000 though, because I have friends who live in 1BR apartments that are about $1.3-1.5k per month. This is only in Brooklyn though. I have no idea how it is in other boroughs.

Post: #17

delete

Post: #18

Ok here is the deal. You can do it for sure. Many do. But most are locals living at home. However with night pay and holiday pay and OT I suspect your salary will be closer to 36k or higher. They might also owe you future contract raises due to being behind on negotiations. Not sure if EMS is part of DC 37 or FDNY union. If part of fire union ...you guys are 4 years behind about.

A few things to think about though:
Not sure where the FDNY EMS station houses are but if it is like firehouses..they are all over. TBH most emergency service employees can't depend on public transport and must own cars. You must understand being late isn't allowed and you will be working at times when the commute via train is SLOW. Plus you might( more likely as a fireman) be coming to work in outer areas. You would be tired if you work in queens but live in Bklyn.

Quote:Plus it's very traditional and much less PC compared to other departments, even with all the women suing to get on.

To a point. Can't compare to other dept's and they certainly aren't PC as much as NYPD but things have changed and gone to shit in the last decade. FDNY is quickly closing the gap to putting up with the same crap we did/do. NYC gov't is the most PC compliant organization I have seen.

Quote:I met a retired NYC firefighter making $81,000/year from his pension.

If he is the rank of fireman than it is very unlikely that much unless he got out on 3/4 disability(which is tax free). Many do though, they award them easily(or they use to). A fireman came into the medical board and shot one of the doctors years ago and since then they are afraid to turn them down. Unlike cops where they forbid cops bringing guns to the medical board.

If he got a regular pension and is rank of fireman than his pension if leaving today would be from 60k -70k. Ones who retire years ago get less due to lower salaries.

Also realize that all new workers are tier 3. No more 20 years and out. Now it is 22 years(still good) and smaller pension calculation plus they minus some of it based on projected SS benefits. Thank gov. Peterson for that.

Quote:And you generally have to show income of 40x that - so your income would have to be $40,000 or higher. Unless you have a connection that will bypass that general screening obstacle.

If he gets a city job MOST non liberal landlords will accept him(liberals will hate him). It is guaranteed income and they know they can complain to your job. Seriously I know guys who landlords would call their commands whining over loud noise etc lol.
Seriously with govt jobs you will find that the standards for being credit worthy is different than private workers. Due to the stability they think you will never get fired and that they can garnish you.
Girls will also try to gt you in trouble. Tell them your a construction worker when in doubt lol. I use to say bank robber while putting their hands on my gun lol.

Quote:Hopefully your EMT position offers health insurance.

If he takes emblemhealth-HIP it will be free. His dental also.

Quote:I imagine FDNY members either have free access or heavy discounts to a gym

NY Sports club gives corporate membership for 49 bucks to NYPD/FDNY but not sure if it extends to EMS. Most discounts are union things and Not sure what union they are in.
But he has other choices. Planet fitness is 10 bucks a month and tbh is house will probably have a small fitness room where he gets access after he pays the yearly fee of 25-35 dollars a year.

Post: #19

My cousin was a FDNY and alot of those guys are able to work 2 or 3 days in a row, sleep at the firehouse, then have 4 or 5 days off where they do something else like bartend to help ends meet.

Post: #20

I've decided to put my app in and go for it, but I have one more question for the NYC guys: I'm only 5'8, and normally this isn't a big deal but I've read that in NYC a lot of women won't even look at guys under 5'10. I've also read on here that in NYC logistics is everything, and obviously on my salary I wouldn't be able to afford an apartment with good logistics. On the other hand I know FDNY guys have a certain status in the city. Will my lack of height and moderate income set me up for failure with girls in NYC? Or will the "status" I would have working for FDNY combined with being in good shape and having decent game help make up for it?

Post: #21

You'll do well with white girls, particular of Irish or Italian background, and also particularly girls in Staten Island or New Jersey. You should build up your arms. Basically you can clean up in your niche target area of girls who are probably more conservative or traditional, and who have daddy issues.

Post: #22

I wouldn't stress the height thing, 5'8 is fine. Play up the firefighter role.

Post: #23

(11-15-2014 05:12 AM)Yeti Wrote:  You'll do well with white girls, particular of Irish or Italian background, and also particularly girls in Staten Island or New Jersey. You should build up your arms. Basically you can clean up in your niche target area of girls who are probably more conservative or traditional, and who have daddy issues.

You can add Nuyoricans and Crossfit chicks to that list too.

Post: #24

(11-15-2014 04:43 AM)leroybrown Wrote:  I've decided to put my app in and go for it, but I have one more question for the NYC guys: I'm only 5'8, and normally this isn't a big deal but I've read that in NYC a lot of women won't even look at guys under 5'10. I've also read on here that in NYC logistics is everything, and obviously on my salary I wouldn't be able to afford an apartment with good logistics. On the other hand I know FDNY guys have a certain status in the city. Will my lack of height and moderate income set me up for failure with girls in NYC? Or will the "status" I would have working for FDNY combined with being in good shape and having decent game help make up for it?

Leroy, for every firefighter who gets laid "because he's a firefighter" there are plenty of firefighters with limited game who don't get laid at all.

Having a certain "status" just gets your foot in the door.

Basically, if you aren't getting laid regularly now, becoming a firefighter is just going to turn you into a bitter incel.

Post: #25

(11-15-2014 05:17 AM)Suits Wrote:  Leroy, for every firefighter who gets laid "because he's a firefighter" there are plenty of firefighters with limited game who don't get laid at all.

Having a certain "status" just gets your foot in the door.

Basically, if you aren't getting laid regularly now, becoming a firefighter is just going to turn you into a bitter incel.

Yeah you don't have to tell me that twice, seeing that I'm already a (volunteer) firefighter currently going through a bit of a dry spell. Getting girls isn't my motivation for being a firefighter, if it was I'd probably be better off going into business or some other career that makes bank. I by no means think moving to NYC is going to be the end all or be all of getting girls, but I'm just trying to get a sense of how well I could do there.