Post: #1

This has been happening to me on almost every date i've been to since moving here from France.It's like i almost always know the outcome of my dates 30 mins into the date except in cases where there is obviously no attraction or connection.I've noticed these 3 outcomes of most of the dates i've gone to with American women;

Scenario 1: I meet chick out on a date suited up. Hangout at a decent bar or restaurant.Banter for a bit,chick is exhibiting
obvious IOI's.She tells me about her life and family.I tell her about the different countries i've been to and the number of languages I speak.Next comes the dreaded what do you do for a living question?.I oblige and say what i do
for work.Automatically she puts me into provider or boyfriend column even though i follow general game 101 rules taking into consideration from the conversations i have with them on the dates,it's obvious most of them have a slutty past.Conversion rate for SNL for such dates?, 10-15 at best.Most claim to have repented from thier highly questionable past and want a BF who has to prove he cares about them before they put out.

And now the fun scenario 2.

I meet chick at pub for date,dressed in jeans and a shirt.Run my normal push and pull game,divulge zero infomation of my past,travels or job title and push for physical contact fairly early into the date and i always get the to buy rounds after i get the first
one.Conversion rate for SNL on such dates?,roughly 60%!. I have come to the
realization that American women are either all damaged or allergic to anyone who has a sane or stable life.Hence i now main run game stated in scenario 2. Wondering if any of you guys on here has lost notches because a girl you went out on a date with figures out you make a decent living and turns off her slutty
lifestyle in the quest to reel you into a LTR.


SNL for such dates

Post: #2

My experience, and I've dated a lot, has been if a girl is slutty and attracted to you then all you need to do is find a good way to get her back to your apt.

Once, after a long 1st date (picnic in Central Park) we're walking back home on the UES and I said, "Well we can either end the date now or go back to my place and get passionate." That's all it took.

Another 1st date, I was in a pub on the UES and I complained about my aching back and I needed to lay down on a hard floor in my apt for 10 mins to recuperate. Was banging her on the floor in 5 mins.

Another 1st date ended with the girl hailing a cab for herself, getting in and saying, "Are you coming?"

Many, many other 1st date lays were similar, and many, many others never converted to bangs.

I was always honest about what I did for a living, etc. I also always do push/pull, banter, tease, slight negging, philosophical talk, etc. I think that's what matter's most. Building tension, making her think you might be too good for her, etc.

Tension = Sexual Attraction

Post: #3

I think its the same in every single country. I drive a fancy car here which is worth 60k usd, believe me $60k is a lot of money, most people here have to work 4-5 years to make this much money here. Whenever my date sees my fancy car her attitude towards me completely changes, and chances of me getting a SNL is greatly reduced. She automatically sees me as a LTR, and possible marriage material so she immediately starts acting like a princess which she is not.

So after realizing my car and my social status was an obvious cockblock, I started running game which is similar to your second scenario, and my conversion rate has been much higher, it has jumped from 5% to roughly 30%. SNL is not common in Turkey because its still kind of a conservative society, so 30% is actually quite an amazing number.

On the other hand my SNL rate in Asia was north of 90%, I acted like your regular tourist, didn't have a fancy car, didn't brag about anything to the girls, just used some escalation techniques and it worked like a charm.

I don't know in the western world, but in the developing world I don't think its a good idea to give the girl a vibe that you're well off, I think its the biggest cockblocker out there.

Post: #4

The thread title is not a good one, but the question is interesting: if you are well-off, should you hide your career and financial status if you want a faster lay? Or just because you want a more honest, non-gold digging or princess act from the woman.
I can't really say as I've never been well-off, except relatively so in poorer countries. At no time has being non-wealthy ever seemed to harm my prospects so it may have helped by putting me firmly in the lover rather than provider category.

Post: #5

Girls will always try to act innocent if they attempt to lock you down for an LTR. It happens more as you get older I've been told; when they realize the wall is coming and they try to make you wait. Lol screw that.

You have to be careful though. If you are trying to get a bang you should never tell a girl about your finances. It's none of her business. If she has an idea anyway just go for the bang anyway. If she's trying to act innocent when you know she is not.... then don't even bother.

Post: #6

(11-09-2014 07:16 AM)RawGod Wrote:  The thread title is not a good one, but the question is interesting: if you are well-off, should you hide your career and financial status if you want a faster lay? Or just because you want a more honest, non-gold digging or princess act from the woman.
I can't really say as I've never been well-off, except relatively so in poorer countries. At no time has being non-wealthy ever seemed to harm my prospects so it may have helped by putting me firmly in the lover rather than provider category.

Yes and no. It really depends.

OP - your 1. date model is totally boyfriend style - I have still managed to fuck and pull her to my 5-star-hotel in EE, but witnessed more LMR and sometimes iron LMR when in the hotel. But I never divulged any real personal info of what I do exactly - that helps with the mystique. I also hardly ever ask too many personal questions about her family life etc., because that is boyfriend-mode too.

The lover modus is always the better choice and it can be done with money too - just focus on the fun aspects of having money - not your job, not your regular car etc. Mention travels to Paris, Caymans, Aspen and Switzerland for skiing - fun, fun and only fun - a girl should only have the impression that you are the lover with money (if you have sufficient money to do those things - try to be more Dan Bilzerian than Bill Gates). Talks about your education or job will not get you anywhere. Owning a Porsche Cabrio - even Boxster - (Lover) is way more enticing for girls than owning a more expensive Mercedes SUV (Provider) - seen personally the difference - the SUV does not matter for speed seduction much. I even heard that some guys like Tom Torrero explicitly say that they DON'T HAVE MONEY to girls.

In the US it is more extreme, but the same kind of Game works in EE in Poland or Romania. But I think we need more of an expert book on money & Game and how to do it right - best written by a guy like Krauser as he field-tests having super-high-net-worth-lifestyle for a year. Who knows - maybe he finds out that it is a hindrance or he starts fucking hordes of 8s and 9s non-stop. I certainly am too far off in Game level to make a definitive statement. Also the very good-looking & 6'3 guys with minimal Game play a different Sport by default and it's possible that it does not impact their Game at all.

Not that it is really necessary for bedding hot young girls - you can be poor, but don't be Beta and don't be too fat - with dominant Game women will fuck you & even pay for you in some cases.

Post: #7

@Onto, American lizards are on some other shit.I've dated around the world and you almost have to change your game model entirely to suit gaming american chicks bc there is very little room for error. Take Africa and SEA for example,i had work in Cameroon and Nigeria for two years.The more a chick knew about me,the more feminine she acted and wouldn't make a big fuss about pleasing you.Although SNL is a little frowned upon in those areas,you are almost guaranteed the lay on the second date.With French chicks in France,most know how to carry themselves and do show respect and are down for anything either ralationship or bang is they figure out you'll be an upgrade to her life. What i'm saying is it's like you shoot yourself in the foot with American chicks if you reveal anything about yourself which suggest you are better off than them in life.

An example,i go on a date to this nice restaurant i frequent in Orlando,FL.I know most of the waiters there and most of them know my love for Old wine.I'm sitting 15mins into the date and our server bends over and whispers to me they have a great bottle of 20 years merlot out back.In excitement i have them bring me the bottle.Cost me $215 and my date immediately says; Oh my!,are you trying to impress me?,which i just agree and amplify.Shit pissed me off bc i would still buy that bottle if i was alone and bc i bought it in here presents,her hamster kicks into overdrive as if the gusture was a ploy to impress her.It was clear she had rode the carousel had to wait uptil the 3rd date to bed her after which i promptly dumped her ass when i left her place that same night. What i'm saying is American women rationalize every little shit you do on a date without taking into consideration that may just be your normal lifestyle.

Post: #8

Why are you complaining?

This means that your social status doesn't matter to your notch count... this is a blessing to all of us rich and poor and a primo example of how game can work for anyone.

The big problem with Scenario 1 is... it's not really game. If you're flashing your provider credentials and bragging about your travel adventures to meet women, you're going to get beta listed fast because this is the kind of thing she expects from guys who are competing for her attention (instead of the other way around). I'm in DC and this is the type of guy we have here... and this guy almost always strikes out or gets friend zoned. I'm a completely prole and you would not believe the kind of women I've dated way above my social class!

Even suited up (which, in my opinion, is overkill in most situations -- very try hard outside of high end clubs in Miami, NYC, and L.A.), you can make your conversation more banter and less direct. If she asks what you do, you can say "Secret Agent" -- and yeah, of course you're kidding, but if she's cool she'll play along. Or even better, say you're a goat herder or something that really shows you don't care (I actually got laid with that one). You're creating contrast with your physical appearance and demonstrating you don't care to play the status game. Works like a charm!

The places where I downplay my status the most are the really fancy bars where a lot of doctors and lawyers and rich women hang out (this is my scene because the women are higher quality, more traditional, less bitchy, less impressed by your money because they already come from wealth), and I do well there because I present myself as the mysterious, fun, aloof, rebellious alternative to what they're used to: uptight, successful guys bragging about their success, paying the whole tab, and playing mediocre provider game. This is so boring.

It gets to the point where I'm flirting with these chicks in front of their wealthy, stock-broker/doctor/lawyer, but entirely beta husbands... who eventually find out that their wealth/success has little to do with their sustained attraction from women.

Post: #9

Can somebody give an example of "push and pull"? I'm pretty sure I used it before, just trying to understand what it means exactly.

Post: #10

(11-09-2014 12:56 PM)anal? Wrote:  @Onto, American lizards are on some other shit.I've dated around the world and you almost have to change your game model entirely to suit gaming american chicks bc there is very little room for error. Take Africa and SEA for example,i had work in Cameroon and Nigeria for two years.The more a chick knew about me,the more feminine she acted and wouldn't make a big fuss about pleasing you.Although SNL is a little frowned upon in those areas,you are almost guaranteed the lay on the second date.With French chicks in France,most know how to carry themselves and do show respect and are down for anything either ralationship or bang is they figure out you'll be an upgrade to her life. What i'm saying is it's like you shoot yourself in the foot with American chicks if you reveal anything about yourself which suggest you are better off than them in life.

An example,i go on a date to this nice restaurant i frequent in Orlando,FL.I know most of the waiters there and most of them know my love for Old wine.I'm sitting 15mins into the date and our server bends over and whispers to me they have a great bottle of 20 years merlot out back.In excitement i have them bring me the bottle.Cost me $215 and my date immediately says; Oh my!,are you trying to impress me?,which i just agree and amplify.Shit pissed me off bc i would still buy that bottle if i was alone and bc i bought it in here presents,her hamster kicks into overdrive as if the gusture was a ploy to impress her.It was clear she had rode the carousel had to wait uptil the 3rd date to bed her after which i promptly dumped her ass when i left her place that same night. What i'm saying is American women rationalize every little shit you do on a date without taking into consideration that may just be your normal lifestyle.

Yeah - it is different indeed - it's more severe in the US. The wine example likely brought you squarely into potential Boyfriend territory. However that kind of shit can happen to you all around the world - personally I experienced it mainly with bitchy deluded women with high-notch counts. You can find them in EE or Africa just as well. Recently I met one such slut and she showed clear interest - strong interest, admitted of being unable to have a relationship, admitted to having fucked countless guys, then suddenly turned around pretended to be the big prize since she wanted me to be her boyfriend. I sensed it and did not feel like spending 3 more dates and listening to her crap to only appease her Boyfriend-ideals. I wasn't overly interested in her in the first place and having to make me work for it, because I am husband-material in her fucked-up head - no thank you.

I don't think that you convey too much Beta provider - it is just that they see this as a perfect opportunity to get the coveted AlphaFuxBetaBux in one and react too strongly to some money shown. Unfortunately that usually means that the raging slut suddenly plays the coy Innocent one and is way tougher to bed. Dinner dates are btw a bit tricky with those kind of girls.

Post: #11

(11-09-2014 03:27 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  Can somebody give an example of "push and pull"?

Post: #12

(11-09-2014 03:27 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  Can somebody give an example of "push and pull"? I'm pretty sure I used it before, just trying to understand what it means exactly.

Push/Pull is great for building and maintaining attraction at any stage of a relationship. It is nearly a crucial part of fast SNL game. Not a lot of verbal/physical game gets the pussy wet as fast. You need to keep it balanced though. Too much push and you are blown out for being a dick, too little and she thinks your a beta bitch.

Its a constant change of 'pulling her in' (compliments/nice guy game) mixed with asshole, cocky aloof game (being a funny asshole). As she gets used to it you can switch back and forth evermore faster till you are doing it every few seconds. It creates powerful attraction and builds a nice 'bubble' between the two of you in a club/houseparty/bar that it is very helpful to pull her that night.

Some girls are more receptive then others and can handle a higher dose of cocky 'pushes' with less 'pulling'. These are the girls that I prefer to game the most as its quite fun for both parties. Other girls need more nice guy game with little bits of pushing every so often to keep it interesting. Also loud, party nightgame in general requires, or allows, a much higher level of push to bait their interest than any other style of game. Daygame in general doesn't allow for so much pushing - she will think you are not socially calibrated, but it can still be used a bit to show you are a challenge. Another factor is your value level - higher value equals more tolerance for you to be an asshole with less nice guy game mixed in.

A general rule is to switch moods between how she is feeling and how you are acting. The more she is in to you the harder you can then push until she starts to get annoyed then you pull a little and start again.

Ways to do it?

Roleplays are the easiest/funnest.

Lets say I tell a girl would make a great Irish wife to bring back home and show off to my family (pull - she thinks its a nice compliment), but then I say thats cause she has a huge back that would be great for farm work (push). But she has such nice hair so dont worry about that big back (pull) she can brush it while she looks after all the sheep and cows while I drink and party in town so that it looks nice if I come home (push)...

It is compliments-tease-compliments-tease

Just don't tease anything that could be a real tease. If she say she has bad breath that isn't funny or helpful. Things like being from a small town/her university course/some unique piece of clothing/ her nationality etc. Play off known stereotypes and popular cliches.

For an American girl I would tell her she has a face for TV, but that her vocal fry would people throw the TV out of the window. Maybe if we did a voice over with a girl with a nice feminine voice it might work. Then I would get her to say 'dinner is ready' in a exaggerated nice housewife accent till I decide she is ready for 'my tv show'...

You can also use physical moves like pushing her away when she wants a kiss in public or taking all the pillows when she goes to use the bathroom and pretending you are asleep when she comes back.

The more you practice the faster you can build rapid fun attraction. Also she will start chasing the rush of getting a compliment between all your asshole game. Then you can up the teasing even more.

If you watch someone who is very good at SNL game chances are they are using a lot of push pull game.

If you want I can breakdown more examples. They were just off the top of my head.

Post: #13

Too much push and she thinks you aren't interested or you're a dick.
Too much pull and you look needy which scares her unconsciously, even if on paper you're being nice.

Something like, you can only chase what you haven't caught. If you're all pull, then she's 'caught' you. Throwing in some push suggests you're fine with walking away, have other options, i.e. not needy.

Plus, the push part is usually where you use humor. So, it's kind of boring without it.

Post: #14

Atlantic gives a good explanation of push/pull. Women want to be The One (aka The Goddess) and believe getting a man to worship her will accomplish that. However any man won't do because to truly be The One she needs to convince a man who doesn't believe she is, to believe she is. Then she will truly feel like she is The One

The rub is that if she every really believes her man sees her as The One she will lose respect for him, because she knows deep down she's not. She's much lower than that, and if her guy thinks she is then he is an idiot and is even lower than she is.

So that's why men must pull (You're the One) and push (You're just one of the many). She has to believe it's possible and yet unsure if it's possible. Walk this tightrope well enough and you can drive a woman insane.

And I believe this to be true for every woman on the planet, though not all women are as invested in being the Goddess as others. Maturity and self-development can lessen her desire for it along with cultures where marriages aren't based on romance.

@anal? You're mistake with the wine was agreeing that you bought it to impress her. I wouldn't be surprised if she unconsciously lost some respect for you because she knows deep down she's not worthy of such things. It would have been better to say, "No, I like the good stuff and the waiter knows that."

Saying that gets across the message that you're a man of taste, power and don't suffer garbage. It also negates her self-importance, which on one hand relieves her of that burden (which she likes), but also makes her want to make you see her that way all the more.

That said, it's easy for me to play Monday afternoon quarterback and say you should've said this and that. It's much harder to know the perfect thing to say when you're in the moment of a date, but the more you know about what women are longing for the more you'll start to see what their motivation is behind the things they say and you can respond accordingly.