Post: #1

First off I want to say this forum has been incredibly helpful to me. There's a great group of men on here that provide insightful, interesting and useful information and I am eternally grateful. Its a place where men can be men and no one bitches at us for it. I always felt the shame society placed on me for acting like a man and now I couldn't give two shits. The red pill was surprisingly easy to swallow and every day I see things in a different light and I'm better off for it.

With that said, I would like to contribute back in the best way possible. So, I wrote a datasheet on how to become an airline pilot. This is for training in America. Foreigners can train here, but have to jump through the usual visa and department of homeland security hoops. I do not know any useful information on this process.

About me: I am an airline pilot in my late 20's. I started flying when I was 16, have a four-year degree and started flying commercially at age 22. I am here to explain how to become a professional pilot in the most cost-effective and efficient way possible. I have broken this article down into several subsections.



Understanding the Commercial Industry:

You have three major airlines: Delta, United and American. You have two major cargo carriers: UPS and Fedex. These are generally considered the top careers in aviation.

You have multiple low cost/medium size airlines: Southwest, Jetblue, Frontier, Spirit, Alaska etc. They tend to pay well but the salary caps are not as high as the majors.

You have multiple regional carriers. As a passenger, you'd most likely never know you were on one. They fly for the majors in their paint schemes. Examples are Endeavor, Horizon, ExpressJet and Skywest. The majors pay the regionals a set rate to fly specific routes. Most of these companies have no real assets and essentially provide leased aircraft and skilled labor. The vast majority of pilots will fly at a regional carrier before a major.

Salary and Benefits:

Salaries (Annual):

First year regional first officer: 18-22k Yes, you read that correctly.
Third year regional first officer: 30-40k
Fifth year regional captain: 65-85k

First year major first officer: 45-65k
Third year major first officer: 100-140k
Fifth year regional first officer: 120-150k
Tenth year regional captain: 160-200k
Twentieth year regional captain: 200-250k

DISCLAIMER: There is no guarantee your career will progress in this fashion. Many people find themselves stuck as a regional first officer for over 10 years making under 50k. Many people never make it to a major.

Medical and Dental: Generally speaking, these are the same benefits provided to a white-collar professional.

Flight Benefits: All pilots, both at a regional and commercial level, receive flight benefits on the airline they fly for. For example, as a Delta pilot you receive Delta flight benefits. As a regional pilot flying for both Delta and American, you receive benefits on both airlines but at a lower boarding priority than those who are actual Delta or American employees. Generally speaking, this travel is free. It is standby and you only get a seat if one is open. Employees are ranked based on date of hire. This also allows for first class travel on a space-available basis. This is called non-revenue travel (non-revving).

All US carriers have an agreement to allow each other to jumpseat. For example, a Delta pilot can request the jumpseat on an American jet. Or even a UPS jet. There are one or more extra seats in the cockpit that only pilots may ride in. If there are seats available in the cabin, you will be expected to take one of those. This is a free benefit.

Lastly, you can buy standby tickets on most airlines around the world for about 10% of the ticket price. You will be the last to board and you do not pay if you do not ride.

To put this in perspective, I flew my own airline to Bangkok in first class round trip. I had to pay taxes, a rountrip cost of around $45. I then bought a standby ticket on Thai Airways from Bangkok to Chiang Mai for around $30. The public price from Thai Airways website was around $70.

Training and Education:

Medical Requirements: You must have vision correctable to 20/20, good color vision and no significant health problems. Some health problems can be waived. You must qualify every year and every 6 months if over 40. Here is more information: FAA Medical Requirements

College:
Most employers require you to have a bacheror's degree. The major is of minor importance, however having a science based degree, such as engineering, mathematics etc, will help. A good GPA will certainly help but a weak one will not kill you.

There are aviation degrees, such as Aeronautical Science or Aviation Science, and IMO are generally worthless. The classes are fun and interesting but are redundant when you consider the flight training you will complete. I highly suggest majoring in another field as this will give you options should you fail your medical or decide flying isn't for you. Let me say that again: MAJOR IN SOMETHING OTHER THAN FLYING PLANES. With that said, aviation colleges such as Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, Purdue or University of North Dakota are excellent colleges with other options available.

Flight Training: You will be required to obtain a series of licenses before you can be employed as a professional pilot.
Private Pilot: This is the first step. You will learn to fly, fly solo, navigate air space and land safely in the event of an emergency. This takes most people around 60 hours of flight training and costs around $8,000-12,000.
Instrument Rating: This lets you fly in the clouds where you cannot see outside. 40 hours of flight training, $6,000-8,000.
Commercial Pilots License: Self-explanatory. Now you can fly and get paid for it. 40 hours, $6,000-10,000. Requires 250 hours total flight time, which you can log by buying or renting an aircraft. Total cost up to this point around 30k.
Multi-Engine License: This allows you to fly planes with more than one engine. Generally required for commercial aircraft. $6,000-8,000.

Now you need to pay your dues and build flight time. With these licenses you can get paid to do so, but you won't get paid much. To fly for a regional you need to accrue 1,500 flight hours. If you graduated from an accredited flying school, this requirement can be reduced by several hundred hours.

Paying Your Dues:

Flight Instruction: This is the most common route. You can train for the CFI (Certified Flight Instructor) certificate, which will allow you to teach students how to fly. This will cost around $6,000... and adding instrument instructor and multi-engine instructor will cost around $4,000 each. Expect to make anywhere between 15 and 50 dollars an hour depending on your location, but most will make around 20-25. This is a highly-stressful job as teaching people in an airplane is not easy work. Not only are you expected to teach effectively, as these students are often paying over $200/hr, you are expected to ensure the safety of the flight. You can expect to be drenched in sweat after many of these flights.
Part 135: This is generally the best route. You will fly small puddle jumpers around as charter pilots. You'll probably make less than instructors, but you won't have to pay for an instructor's license. Can be a blast... by far the most fun I've had in my career.
Other Commercial Flying Flying skydivers, towing banners, crop dusters or pipeline patrol. Pays shit and you'll work hard.

International Airlines: The Middle East and China are thirsty for western pilots. Emirates, Qatar Airways and multiple domestic Chinese airlines will pay 150-250k (tax-free) for your skills. You'll have to live there. The Middle Eastern airlines run a first class operation but the gigs in China can be shady.

Military: This is the best route. Try out for ROTC or apply directly. They'll pay for your training and you'll owe 10 years. When you get out you'll be competitive, but not as competitive in as in the past. Airlines tend to prefer civilian pilots from the regionals. Military cargo and refueling pilots are preferred over the fighter guys... as the former have experience operating as a crew.

Employment Outlook: Now is a better time than ever to become a commercial pilot. Commercial Pilot certification is at an all-time low. Of 11,700 pilots at Delta Airlines, 8,600 are set to retire by 2030. If you are hired now at a Major Airline you will be in command of a 300+ passenger, international jet, earning a salary of around 200k in 15 years time. All the other airlines are looking at similar attrition. The regionals can't fill their seats and are offering significant signing bonuses.

Well that's about it. Feel free to ask questions and I'll do my best to answer em!

Post: #2

I met a pilot the other day, who said he gets 500EUR a month extra for every language he speaks. (He was German flying for Lufthansa)

Does this exist in the states? The guy claimed to speak 9 languages. Sick life.

Post: #3

First of all, welcome here RIslander!
Awesome Data Sheet on becoming a pilot, which is a great career to consider specially for someone wanting to live a life built around travel.

How much time off per year do you get usually as pilot? I hope it's more than the 2-3 weeks you'd get in the corporate world.

Post: #4

I am 17 but my career path is to be a pilot. My mom is a Captain for American. My dad flew F/A-18 Hornets in the Navy, but now flys a small experimental aircraft, the RV-6A, as a hobby. He is also a CFI, and is currently in the process of instructing me towards my Private License.

My plan is to go to Arizona State University. They have a decent-sized aviation program there. I will major in Computer Science, but take some of the aeronautical classes and offer my services as a CFI to the kids in there, as I will be a licensed CFI by hopefully my sophomore year. After 3 years at ASU I will have my bachelors degree required to be a commercial pilot, and will then go into the Air National Guard to perform 4 years active duty. This way my training is paid for, and I have an income straight out of college. After 4 years in the Guard I will move on to hopefully a major airline such as American or Delta, but am willing to fly for Emirates or some other ME airline, if need be.

Do you see any problems with my plan? Please let me know!

Also, VP most airlines only allow you to work 90-100 hours per month(flying time). Depending on your schedule, you would work something like 3 days on, 4 days off; you still only have 14-21 days of paid vacation per year, but you can disperse that and schedule yourself to have an extended period of time off, if that's what you wanted.

Post: #5

(11-06-2014 05:16 PM)micha Wrote:  I met a pilot the other day, who said he gets 500EUR a month extra for every language he speaks. (He was German flying for Lufthansa)

Does this exist in the states? The guy claimed to speak 9 languages. Sick life.

I have never heard of a US carrier offering such an incentive. All international flights are staffed with flight attendants who speak the destination's language and translate the pilot's announcements.

(11-06-2014 06:20 PM)Padawan Wrote:  I am 17 but my career path is to be a pilot. My mom is a Captain for American. My dad flew F/A-18 Hornets in the Navy, but now flys a small experimental aircraft, the RV-6A, as a hobby. He is also a CFI, and is currently in the process of instructing me towards my Private License.

My plan is to go to Arizona State University. They have a decent-sized aviation program there. I will major in Computer Science, but take some of the aeronautical classes and offer my services as a CFI to the kids in there, as I will be a licensed CFI by hopefully my sophomore year. After 3 years at ASU I will have my bachelors degree required to be a commercial pilot, and will then go into the Air National Guard to perform 4 years active duty. This way my training is paid for, and I have an income straight out of college. After 4 years in the Guard I will move on to hopefully a major airline such as American or Delta, but am willing to fly for Emirates or some other ME airline, if need be.

Do you see any problems with my plan? Please let me know!

Also, VP most airlines only allow you to work 90-100 hours per month(flying time). Depending on your schedule, you would work something like 3 days on, 4 days off; you still only have 14-21 days of paid vacation per year, but you can disperse that and schedule yourself to have an extended period of time off, if that's what you wanted.

Padawan, sounds like you have a solid plan. I assume your four years in the guard will be in a non-flying role as flying positions are extremely competitive. If you choose to fly for the guard, know it is a 10-year commitment. I say you go for it!

I personally fly around 85 a month, which equates to 10 hours of overtime. 100 is the maximum flight time but you will generally get paid 10-20% more than you fly due to cancellations and delays. I am going to write another article tonight or tomorrow describing scheduling and quality of life for airline pilots.

Keep your grades up, stay out of trouble/away from traffic tickets and stay in shape. You see some fatass pilots but most don't last long. You need to be fit to truly enjoy the profession and earn the respect of your passengers and peers.



EDIT: I noticed a typo in my OP. Fixed below:

Salaries (Annual):

First year regional first officer: 18-22k Yes, you read that correctly.
Third year regional first officer: 30-40k
Fifth year regional captain: 65-85k

First year major first officer: 45-65k
Third year major first officer: 100-140k
Fifth year major first officer: 120-150k
Tenth year major captain: 160-200k
Twentieth year major captain: 200-250k

Post: #6

Airline Pilot (career) Datasheet PART II
This post details the daily routine and quality of life for airline pilots:


Nearly all airlines are unionized and all airlines use a union-style seniority list. Seniority is KING in aviation. It determines what aircraft you will fly, how many and which days you work, which routes you fly and when you take vacation. Longevity is the total amount of time at the airline and determines your pay rate. Generally speaking, big airplanes = higher pay and each airplane has rates for total length of service at the particular airline.

For more information on airline pay rates: Airline Pilot Central

Pilots in the lower 20% of seniority on their fleet typically sit reserve. Reserve is when you are at home and on call. For example, if a pilot calls in sick they call you and you have 2 hours to get to your base airport and cover the flight. The rest of the pilots are assigned what are known as 'lines' and have a set schedule one month in advance.

Lines vary greatly based on seniority. A pilot in the top 10% will typically work the days and routes he wants to work. He may go to work on a Monday morning, fly to Hawaii, spend 36 hours and fly home Wednesday. He does this once a week 3-4 times a month depending on his base in the US. His base salary will be made in only 10-13 days of actual work. Conversely, a junior 'line holder' will have little say as to what days and routes he works, and will have to work 16-18 days to earn the same amount of hours. His schedule might mean 4-5 flights a day with a layover in Minot, North Dakota. The pilot on reserve is on call 18-19 days per month and has very little opportunity for overtime, therefor earning significantly less money.


A day in the life:

Pilots show up 45min-1 hour before their first scheduled flight of the day. They use this time to catch up on manuals, check the weather and preflight the aircraft. Lots of paperwork. The flight deck team consists of a captain and first officer, and sometimes additional pilots for flights over eight hours. You may have between one and 20 flight attendants based on the aircraft. The captain will brief them on issues such as turbulence, security, flight time and any other issues affecting customer service or safety.

After release from the gate, the crew taxis and takes off. This, along with arrival and landing is the busiest time of flight. Cruise is generally pretty relaxing and pilots spend their time reading or chatting. A few times per year you will be assigned to training classes and exams where you will be required to perform to a certain standard. These can be stressful and difficult.



For those of you considering this career path, know it can be very difficult. Its a great job when you're in the air, but the rest of the time you have to deal with bankruptcies, layoffs and brutal management techniques. I personally have been laid off from two airlines and for three years lived off 18k/year. I make a respectable salary now but its really just due to good luck... I chose the right airline to go to. Managers at regional airlines are generally the most evil people you will ever meet. They don't care about the employees and will literally work you to death. They want you to quit, because they can higher a new guy at year one pay and pay themselves the difference in bonuses.

If you can deal with all this and know what you're getting into, its truly a great job. You'll meet the most fascinating people and see the world. It can be tough on family life, but if I know my audience on this forum that's not really an issue.



In closing I can offer one last piece of advice based off a funny story:

A flight takes off for a three hour flight. Its an Airbus with two pilots and four flight attendants. After takeoff, two of the flight attendants start discussing their boyfriends, who are pilots at the same airline. After a bit of discussion they notice striking similarities between the two men they are talking about. It then dawns on them that they are both seeing THE SAME pilot... who happens to be flying the plane!! (Imagine his thought-process when he must of had when he got his roster before the flight) A cat-fight ensues, which is broken up by passengers, forcing the pilots to divert the aircraft and have the flight attendants arrested and replaced. Hilarious story, right? Well, not if you were the above pilot. He gets his ass hauled in to the Chief Pilot, has to perform a carpet dance of epic proportions, and nearly gets shit-canned himself.

Moral of the Story: If you bang all the flight attendants you'll eventually get canned when one calls rape or sexual harrassment because most of em are batshit crazy. Don't shit where you eat. Make friends with pilots from other airlines, who also have flight attendants, and shit where he eats instead!!!!

Post: #7

(11-06-2014 09:01 PM)RIslander Wrote:  Airline Pilot (career) Datasheet PART II
This post details the daily routine and quality of life for airline pilots:


Nearly all airlines are unionized and all airlines use a union-style seniority list. Seniority is KING in aviation. It determines what aircraft you will fly, how many and which days you work, which routes you fly and when you take vacation. Longevity is the total amount of time at the airline and determines your pay rate. Generally speaking, big airplanes = higher pay and each airplane has rates for total length of service at the particular airline.

For more information on airline pay rates: Airline Pilot Central

Pilots in the lower 20% of seniority on their fleet typically sit reserve. Reserve is when you are at home and on call. For example, if a pilot calls in sick they call you and you have 2 hours to get to your base airport and cover the flight. The rest of the pilots are assigned what are known as 'lines' and have a set schedule one month in advance.

Lines vary greatly based on seniority. A pilot in the top 10% will typically work the days and routes he wants to work. He may go to work on a Monday morning, fly to Hawaii, spend 36 hours and fly home Wednesday. He does this once a week 3-4 times a month depending on his base in the US. His base salary will be made in only 10-13 days of actual work. Conversely, a junior 'line holder' will have little say as to what days and routes he works, and will have to work 16-18 days to earn the same amount of hours. His schedule might mean 4-5 flights a day with a layover in Minot, North Dakota. The pilot on reserve is on call 18-19 days per month and has very little opportunity for overtime, therefor earning significantly less money.


A day in the life:

Pilots show up 45min-1 hour before their first scheduled flight of the day. They use this time to catch up on manuals, check the weather and preflight the aircraft. Lots of paperwork. The flight deck team consists of a captain and first officer, and sometimes additional pilots for flights over eight hours. You may have between one and 20 flight attendants based on the aircraft. The captain will brief them on issues such as turbulence, security, flight time and any other issues affecting customer service or safety.

After release from the gate, the crew taxis and takes off. This, along with arrival and landing is the busiest time of flight. Cruise is generally pretty relaxing and pilots spend their time reading or chatting. A few times per year you will be assigned to training classes and exams where you will be required to perform to a certain standard. These can be stressful and difficult.



For those of you considering this career path, know it can be very difficult. Its a great job when you're in the air, but the rest of the time you have to deal with bankruptcies, layoffs and brutal management techniques. I personally have been laid off from two airlines and for three years lived off 18k/year. I make a respectable salary now but its really just due to good luck... I chose the right airline to go to. Managers at regional airlines are generally the most evil people you will ever meet. They don't care about the employees and will literally work you to death. They want you to quit, because they can higher a new guy at year one pay and pay themselves the difference in bonuses.

If you can deal with all this and know what you're getting into, its truly a great job. You'll meet the most fascinating people and see the world. It can be tough on family life, but if I know my audience on this forum that's not really an issue.



In closing I can offer one last piece of advice based off a funny story:

A flight takes off for a three hour flight. Its an Airbus with two pilots and four flight attendants. After takeoff, two of the flight attendants start discussing their boyfriends, who are pilots at the same airline. After a bit of discussion they notice striking similarities between the two men they are talking about. It then dawns on them that they are both seeing THE SAME pilot... who happens to be flying the plane!! (Imagine his thought-process when he must of had when he got his roster before the flight) A cat-fight ensues, which is broken up by passengers, forcing the pilots to divert the aircraft and have the flight attendants arrested and replaced. Hilarious story, right? Well, not if you were the above pilot. He gets his ass hauled in to the Chief Pilot, has to perform a carpet dance of epic proportions, and nearly gets shit-canned himself.

Moral of the Story: If you bang all the flight attendants you'll eventually get canned when one calls rape or sexual harrassment because most of em are batshit crazy. Don't shit where you eat. Make friends with pilots from other airlines, who also have flight attendants, and shit where he eats instead!!!!

My Dad retired as an airline pilot just before shit got whittled down. He had plenty of time off, liked the job and never had to take any work home with him besides simulator study.

He also liked that he could tailor his job, when he was younger he tried to get assigned to routes that were long hauls with long layovers in weird places so he could a) get his hours in fast and b) get paid to see different cities. When he was older he signed up for easy routes that gave him a normal 10 hour day.

Seemed like a great job, though he endured something like 7 airline mergers during his career.

Post: #8

My brother is planning to become a pilot, let me give some info about Turkish Airlines

Once you graduate from their flight academy you immediately start off as a first officer

Starting pay is around 18k liras a month, that is 8000$ a month 96k $ a year, this is after taxes!
Pretty crazy starting pay for Turkey, where the standard of living is low. Considering that Turkish Airlines is the airline which flies to the most countries in the world, I think its a great job for those that like to travel. When you become a captain you make around 150-200k a year . There are other perks as well, your family members get to fly for free to any country etc.

Post: #9

whats the latest you could start training as a pilot and expect to get hired? im early 40s now.

Post: #10

As someone with a deep fascination of airplanes and even considering aerospace engineering in grad school, I've been interested in getting a private's license. However, being in school, I don't have the money to go to flight school and train. That being said, do you have any books and/or simulators you'd recommend reading or practising on so that when the time comes, I won't have to pay as much for flight training (hopefully not much more than the minimum flight time to get licensed)? Right now I'm considering buying FSX or x-plane and a set of yoke and pedals. Would this be a worthy investment or are simulators not that much help?

Also, thanks for taking the time to answer and share valuable info with us!

Post: #11

I've seen Chinese airlines advertising around 200k a year tax free, month on month off, to and from Europe. They said it's possible to be based in Europe in that month of, so even if you didn't like China in theory you would only spend about 25% of your time there (if you lived in Europe)

No pension or anything but if you just do it for a few years or plan to do it longer term and manage your own retirement savings it would be a decent gig.

Post: #12

In general, anybody looking into airline stuff should check out pprune.org (professional pilots rumor network). There can be a lot of inaccurate and/or overly negative posts, but it's a great resource for anybody considering a flying career.

Post: #13

(11-08-2014 01:16 PM)GetinGetout Wrote:  whats the latest you could start training as a pilot and expect to get hired? im early 40s now.

GetinGetout,

I can only recommend a career change to you if money is of no concern. It will expensive to learn to fly... think 60k+. You will have to quit your current job and learn full-time if you want to do it properly.

Generally speaking, pilots who learn to fly after their 20's are the worst pilots I've ever met. Its like learning a new language... it gets harder as you age. The whole idea of flying is basically making the airplane a part of yourself (corny, I know) and muscle-memory becomes a harder learning process as we age. I've taught older students and they almost always struggle.

With that said, that's not 100% of the cases. I've flown with career-changers that are excellent pilots. Just know you'll be working twice as hard as the 18 year old.

Mandatory retirement is age 65. If you have the hours and licenses, can do well in interviews you will get hired at a regional at any age. Know that you'll only be making 18k to start, though.

(11-08-2014 09:16 PM)kotae Wrote:  As someone with a deep fascination of airplanes and even considering aerospace engineering in grad school, I've been interested in getting a private's license. However, being in school, I don't have the money to go to flight school and train. That being said, do you have any books and/or simulators you'd recommend reading or practising on so that when the time comes, I won't have to pay as much for flight training (hopefully not much more than the minimum flight time to get licensed)? Right now I'm considering buying FSX or x-plane and a set of yoke and pedals. Would this be a worthy investment or are simulators not that much help?

Also, thanks for taking the time to answer and share valuable info with us!

Kotae,

I have never really been interested in flight simulators but I've heard they can help.

Here are some excellent books:

Stick and Rudder

Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators

The Killing Zone - Why Pilots Die

(11-08-2014 11:18 PM)Sidney Crosby Wrote:  I've seen Chinese airlines advertising around 200k a year tax free, month on month off, to and from Europe. They said it's possible to be based in Europe in that month of, so even if you didn't like China in theory you would only spend about 25% of your time there (if you lived in Europe)

No pension or anything but if you just do it for a few years or plan to do it longer term and manage your own retirement savings it would be a decent gig.

These gigs require time in type while in command of the aircraft. What that means is you need to fly the same model of aircraft as the captain, for at least 300 hours. You'll have to spend 5+ years at an airline to make captain and log that time.

These gigs are for experienced pilots.

Post: #14

is there something like part 135 for helicopter flying?

Post: #15

I met a young helicopter pilot that was making over a 100K in Northern Canada (in his 20's). He said he spent 75K to become a helicopter pilot though.

Do they generally make more? The lifestyle is surely different. As a helicopter pilot you're flying people in and out of inaccessible places etc...

Post: #16

Awesome data sheet. +1

Post: #17

Are there any language requirements for international pilots?

What are the downsides of being a pilot (besides the costs of becoming one)?

Post: #18

Do you need a degree ?

Post: #19

(11-08-2014 09:16 PM)kotae Wrote:  As someone with a deep fascination of airplanes and even considering aerospace engineering in grad school, I've been interested in getting a private's license. However, being in school, I don't have the money to go to flight school and train. That being said, do you have any books and/or simulators you'd recommend reading or practising on so that when the time comes, I won't have to pay as much for flight training (hopefully not much more than the minimum flight time to get licensed)? Right now I'm considering buying FSX or x-plane and a set of yoke and pedals. Would this be a worthy investment or are simulators not that much help?

Also, thanks for taking the time to answer and share valuable info with us!

Buy the newest version of x-plane, it simulates the reality much better than FSX. Even though the flight physics may slightly differ from reality, it is still a good practice in terms of getting to know all the control panels in the cockpit and how to control a plane.

RedGuard

Post: #20

I worked at a flight training college in australia as a bartender and learnt a few things from alot of the cadets. They had a scholarship program which some of them were on and since the 8-16month course cost around 100k if you get scholarship you basically hit the jackpot. It was mostly just a few chinese airlines that were offering scholarships. You would have to go to hong kong for an interview and im sure also a few other steps paying for your owm flights etc. If you then got the scholarship, the airline would pay for the course, your meals and also accomodation. And at the end of it you had a job lined up usually starting on $50-60k a year.

Post: #21

Quote:It can be tough on family life, but if I know my audience on this forum that's not really an issue.

Hilarious comment.

Out of a month, how many days do you get to stay home and how many weeks of vacation a year do you get?

Quote:It then dawns on them that they are both seeing THE SAME pilot... who happens to be flying the plane!! (Imagine his thought-process when he must of had when he got his roster before the flight) A cat-fight ensues, which is broken up by passengers, forcing the pilots to divert the aircraft and have the flight attendants arrested and replaced. Hilarious story, right? Well, not if you were the above pilot. He gets his ass hauled in to the Chief Pilot, has to perform a carpet dance of epic proportions, and nearly gets shit-canned himself.

Yepp, it was totally his fault and not fault of the cabin crew at all. The cabin crew couldn't help that they had a huge cat fight. They were basically tricked into having that fight. What happened to them in the end though?

The SJW thing have really gone far in the US if you discourage pilots from hooking up with the cabin crew. I thought that was more or less a perk that comes with the job, such as why cabin crew less airlines of UPS and Fedex need to have better t and c to compensate for the lack of tail.

Post: #22

(11-06-2014 05:59 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  How much time off per year do you get usually as pilot? I hope it's more than the 2-3 weeks you'd get in the corporate world.

Generally speaking, you get 2 weeks annual vacation to start. After 10 years you're getting 4-5. However, this is misleading. I am using my two weeks at the end of January/early Feb. I set my schedule to work my ass off the beginning of Jan and end of Feb... allowing me a total of 5 weeks off paid because I used my monthly days off to enhance my vacation. I normally get 18 days off per month while working 12-13.

I also stack my schedules when I don't have vacation to allow me 2-3 weeks paid 'vacation' over the turn of the month... so I can get the hell out of the west. In essence I am able to get around 6 months 'paid vacation' per year and travel extensively (with free airfare anywhere in the world) Keep in mind, I am a senior pilot on my equipment and that gives me the power to do this.

(11-11-2014 05:31 PM)Osiris Wrote:  Are there any language requirements for international pilots?

What are the downsides of being a pilot (besides the costs of becoming one)?

If English is not your native language you have to demonstrate proficiency in the language via a series of tests. I'm American so I do not know much about the process. I imagine most airlines also require you to speak the country's native tongue (Middle Eastern and some Chinese airlines do not. LAN requires you to speak Spanish)

Downsides:
-Low starting pay of 20k USD. Could be a decade before you break 50k... tends to be a matter of luck.
-Little control over career advancement. You move up to captain and to larger aircraft when your seniority number gets called. Promotions are seniority based not merit based.
-Schedules can be unpredictable. Expect having to spend several days at a time on the road.
-Very hostile relationships between management and labor

(11-11-2014 11:38 PM)NeVerGymLess Wrote:  Do you need a degree ?

Officially, no. Most airlines will not consider you without one, however. The degree does NOT need to be in aviation.

Post: #23

It is insane to me that airplane pilots make so little money starting out their career -- under 40k for manning a plane of 300+ passengers, and being solely responsible for their lives?! That is ridiculous, don't you guys have some kind of unions or something to help push up wages?

Post: #24

Guys, I know a tonne of expatriate pilots who work in the gulf. Qatar airways etihad etc. Even cabin crew. Yes I know it's the Middle East but sometimes it's better to sacrifice a year or more to get what you want. I went to the gulf for 2 years, and now am typing this on my sunny hot balcony in medellin colombia. While my friends in Toronto are indoors and such. December 27th ain't so warm in the north.

Basically, men and women apply for cabin crew or other positions with the airport authorities or airlines in the gulf. Yes there are no women as it's a sausage fest. However, the airlines HAS women. So, you will be fine. They don't hire riff raff. They hire some pretty women as cabin crew. You will get to meet people from all over the world and travel regularly. So basically your life is international. Who cares if you are in the gulf if you work for an airline. You get tax free money , free apartment and transport to and from work. You are basically never there anyways.

If you need more money, you can do a side hustle. Flights to Hong Kong etc, or xyz location pick up some electronic items iPhones etc, and then on flights to Brazil or other countries where the prices are super high you can sell these items.

Post: #25

can anyone here suggest a good flight school/program? im in Socal but can travel for the summer to get some training