Post: #1

I want to share a little bit about my travel through Vietnam. I am currently in Hoi An, and i have been working for 1 month as a volonteer english teacher in Hanoi, and now been going south for almost a month. Vietnam have a long and rich culture and history with influences from France, china, America and Japan, and of course the wars. I am backpacking with a close friend, and my goal wasn't to bang, but just travel and experience. It's my first time outside of Europe, and the longest time away from home, so it's quite new to me

The girls: if you ever want to have a sweet, caring, beautiful and thin girl, go to Vietnam. There are NO, fatties. In Hanoi, where they are more conservative than in the south, the girls want a boyfriend, and I didn't see a ONS culture. In the bars at night, the only viet girls are pros. I stayed in Hanoi for one month, and didn't have time for game. I'm a 1.70 cm guy with, in Denmark, average looks, but WOW, I get a lot of attention in Vietnam, from 8 and 9 girls. It's crazy, the white man is really popular here. But then again, I also had a lot of time to interact with local girls, and they are really easy to flirt with. After Hanoi, we were going south, and in Hue I got my Vietnamese flag. A 20 yo bartender, claimed she was virgin, and had the best tits I've ever banged. Kissed her the first night, banged the day after. She was drunk, and was kind of a 'bad girl' compared to Vietnamese, (would be an angel in Denmark), and were used to western people. My second Vietnamese bang was a week after in Hoi An, also a claimed virgin. Both had tattoos(see the latest ROK blogs), but still really innocent girls compared to western standards. The second one gave me a BJ between changing positions, and was good in the bed. They were not the prettiest girls, (5-7 maybe) but sluts usually aren't.
If I had more time, ONS wouldn't be my goal, but deffently to have LTR's. Vietnamese girls are so pretty and caring, and really appreciate men and respect relationships. I feel like a rock star walking the streets with all the attention, my friend is a tall blonde guy, and its really crazy. The game you wanna run is a kind of charming alpha. Know some Vietnamese sentenceses, like dep qua (very beautiful), it always gives you a smile and an advantage to other stupid backpackers.

I haven't run day game, but I think that would be best to meet nice beautiful girls. At night, I have been on bars with a good mix of backpackers and locals. I am a lot more interested in talking with locals than fat American, English, and Aussie girls, even thigh I kissed a couple.

There's is not alot of competition to the Vietnamese girls. First of, their boys is very beta, small and thin, second, the backpackers don't give them a lot of attention, maybe because of the difficulty, but that's good for me.

Nightlife: it's really cheap. In Hanoi, go to Tan Hien street, there are bars all over the place. In Hue, go to browneyes, and Hoi an, Why Not bar, or infinity bar. But look out for pros, they are really everywhere, especially in the more expensive places

Everything is cheap, and the food is ok. I just had a tailor made suit with a shirt and tie for 150$. Going to Ho Chi Minh soon. I got the yellow fever, and I don't wanna go home to Denmark, shit

Post: #2

(10-20-2014 10:06 AM)seabridge Wrote:  I stayed in Hanoi for one month, and didn't have time for game.

.

Post: #3

Yes i see it sounds stupid, but i worked every day and travelled during weekends. And by that i mean didnt have time for day game

Post: #4

Hanoi is not a good place anyway for nightlife or gaming. It is more conservative than Saigon and I found the people a lot colder than in the South.

Post: #5

(10-20-2014 11:00 AM)nomadicdude Wrote:  Hanoi is not a good place anyway for nightlife or gaming. It is more conservative than Saigon and I found the people a lot colder than in the South.

Haven't been to HCMC, yet, so I don't know. I didn't find the people cold, but yea, nightlife was no good. Game wasn't my reason for going though

Post: #6

Thanks for the report.

I'm thinking of going there for a few weeks eventually after I get my shit sorted out and some time off.

How annoying are the locals in trying to hustle you and rip you off? Any things to avoid? Also, do you have any examples of what the average girl looks like there?

Thanks

Post: #7

(10-20-2014 11:15 AM)Global_Cocksman Wrote:  Thanks for the report.

I'm thinking of going there for a few weeks eventually after I get my shit sorted out and some time off.

How annoying are the locals in trying to hustle you and rip you off? Any things to avoid? Also, do you have any examples of what the average girl looks like there?

Thanks

In turist areas, after 6pm, every guy on a moto, is a potential hustler/drug dealer. Also, there are local prices, and then turist prices, but its not that bad. Haven't been to any other places in Asia, so can't compare. For me, it haven't been a big deal, so no problem. The girls are pale, which is seen as beautiful here, and it actually is. They are very petite, so if you like phat asses, don't go. Their breast surprised me though. They have small faces, usually a good jawline. Don't have any pictures, but on the street during the day, you will see a lot 6-8 girls Avoid moto taxis, they will for sure rip you off. Clubs are usually jammed with pros, so I recommend bars. Find girls who are used to westeners, without being too used to them if you can say that

Post: #8

[/quote]

In turist areas, after 6pm, every guy on a moto, is a potential hustler/drug dealer. Also, there are local prices, and then turist prices, but its not that bad.
[/quote]

This is unequivocally not true. You didn't leave the old quarter, did you?

Post: #9

In turist areas, after 6pm, every guy on a moto, is a potential hustler/drug dealer. Also, there are local prices, and then turist prices, but its not that bad.
[/quote]

This is unequivocally not true. You didn't leave the old quarter, did you?
[/quote]

I didn't live in the old quater, 30 min away. It's more in smaller towns like hue, where you are offered weed every other minute.

Post: #10

Compared to a place like Thailand I don't think Vietnam is as scammy but everyone has different experiences. You have to research what are the legit taxi companies because there are fake ones that ripe off tourists. People will hustle you for change, drugs, ladies, etc but they aren't that pushy. When buying bus tickets always research online for scam companies or travel agents.

Generally, even if you get a tourist price in a backpacker area it is still incredibly cheap. Food is super cheap here, perhaps the cheapest food pound for pound in terms of quality in the world. I can get a steak dinner for under $2 at a sidewalk restaurant, $5 sushi lunch specials, $5 indian food. You can always get a sandwich for a $1 and Pho for $1-2 and beer is super cheap as well (75 cents for a bottle of Saigon Special, 50 cents for regular Saigon).

As for the girls, I think they are in the top tier in Asia along with Thai, Korean, and Japanese girls BUT I think girls in Saigon are a lot hotter than elsewhere such as Hanoi. Since its so hot in Saigon the girls wear nice shorts and its always good sitting on the sidewalk like a creep watching skinny girls in short shorts driving by on their scooters (you'll never see anything like that in America in 100 years). You see lots of hot girls in clubs but you have to test to see if they are working. The girls generally are very sweet. They have not been corrupted by the west or by money like Chinese girls. But they don't speak good English generally and you don't get as much of diversity of looks as in Thailand or Indonesia. All the girls sorta look the same.

Also, when I said the North was cold I really meant it in relation to the South. People in Saigon are incredibly friendly. Maybe its the warmer climate. I don't know but it reminds me more of SE Asia whereas Hanoi seemed more like mainland China. It's not that people are mean in Hanoi, it's just not the same vibe as in Saigon.

Post: #11

Sorry man but you can't call this a datasheet. Edit it down and drop it in the Traveller's Lounge.

Quote:There's is not alot of competition to the Vietnamese girls. First of, their boys is very beta, small and thin, second, the backpackers don't give them a lot of attention, maybe because of the difficulty, but that's good for me.

So what you're saying is that, since their 'boys is very beta', that you can just swoop in there with your Western, aloof, cocky game and swoop them off their feet?

There's not a lot of competition because there doesn't NEED to be a lot of competition. It's a conservative society where Western style game doesn't exist. The native men have it unbelievably good.

So tell us, how did you manage to tap into that? That's what data sheets are for. Yes, as tall white guys with swagger you will get a lot of looks walking down the street. That doesn't mean the girls run up to you and drop their panties. And since most of them don't speak English, how do you open them?

Look up Slubu or Sourcecode's data sheets; that's how you do it man. Lay out information in a clear manner that helps guys out who have never been.

And yeah that info about all dudes on motorbikes in the old quarter being scammers is a load of unfounded BS.

And yeah Vietnamese girls have some of the more plump asses I've seen on asians. If you don't like Vietnamese bodies you won't like any asian bodies.

If you've got bars that you recommend to pick up Vietnamese girls, let's get some names.

And not one word about pipelining or online game?

C'mon man.

Post: #12

(10-20-2014 12:44 PM)Veloce Wrote:  Sorry man but you can't call this a datasheet. Edit it down and drop it in the Traveller's Lounge.

Quote:There's is not alot of competition to the Vietnamese girls. First of, their boys is very beta, small and thin, second, the backpackers don't give them a lot of attention, maybe because of the difficulty, but that's good for me.

So what you're saying is that, since their 'boys is very beta', that you can just swoop in there with your Western, aloof, cocky game and swoop them off their feet?

There's not a lot of competition because there doesn't NEED to be a lot of competition. It's a conservative society where Western style game doesn't exist. The native men have it unbelievably good.

So tell us, how did you manage to tap into that? That's what data sheets are for. Yes, as tall white guys with swagger you will get a lot of looks walking down the street. That doesn't mean the girls run up to you and drop their panties. And since most of them don't speak English, how do you open them?

Look up Slubu or Sourcecode's data sheets; that's how you do it man. Lay out information in a clear manner that helps guys out who have never been.

And yeah that info about all dudes on motorbikes in the old quarter being scammers is a load of unfounded BS.

And yeah Vietnamese girls have some of the more plump asses I've seen on asians. If you don't like Vietnamese bodies you won't like any asian bodies.

If you've got bars that you recommend to pick up Vietnamese girls, let's get some names.

And not one word about pipelining or online game?

C'mon man.

I have never said that girls will come up to me and drop their panties, I just wrote that, as a white guy, you get a lot of positive response from local girls, and that those who spoke English, was easy to talk to. The two I have been with both spoke English, maybe I was lucky. I was exaggerating a bit when I wrote that everyone could be a hustler, but the question was, are there a lot of hustlers? And yes there are, but of course not everyone. I haven't gotten in to online game at all, since my reason for going to Vietnam wasn't the girls. Maybe it shouldn't be called a datasheet then

Post: #13

(10-20-2014 10:06 AM)seabridge Wrote:  . A 20 yo bartender, claimed she was virgin, and had the best tits I've ever banged. Kissed her the first night, banged the day after. She was drunk, and was kind of a 'bad girl' compared to Vietnamese, (would be an angel in Denmark), and were used to western people. My second Vietnamese bang was a week after in Hoi An, also a claimed virgin. Both had tattoos(see the latest ROK blogs), but still really innocent girls compared to western standards. The second one gave me a BJ between changing positions, and was good in the bed. They were not the prettiest girls, (5-7 maybe) but sluts usually aren't.

Two girls working the bar or nightlife areas with tattoos are not virgins by any stretch of the imagination. Tattoos are still very uncommon in Vietnam and it's usually a whore or freelancer thing to get. I consider Vietnam to be fairly conservative compared with other SEA countries.

What you did was shore two freelancers which there's nothing wrong with that.

Quote:There's is not alot of competition to the Vietnamese girls. First of, their boys is very beta, small and thin, second, the backpackers don't give them a lot of attention, maybe because of the difficulty, but that's good for me.

Just because the men are shorter and the culture can appear soft spoken doesn't make the guys "beta." You're talking about Vietnam here, a people whose men fought off 3 different (4 if you count the mongols) better equipped, numerically superior, and arguably more well trained invaders. Vietnamese dudes tend to be on the small side but can turn real serious if pissed off. At least ones i've known have always been like this. They will absolutely fuck you up if you come across like too much of a dick. Too many guys make this mistake elsewhere in SEA too.

Post: #14

^ Agree with everything El Chinito said.

(10-20-2014 10:06 AM)seabridge Wrote:  My second Vietnamese bang was a week after in Hoi An, also a claimed virgin. Both had tattoos(see the latest ROK blogs), but still really innocent girls compared to western standards. The second one gave me a BJ between changing positions, and was good in the bed.

A virgin that's good in bed.

Quote:There's is not alot of competition to the Vietnamese girls. First of, their boys is very beta, small and thin, second, the backpackers don't give them a lot of attention, maybe because of the difficulty, but that's good for me.

Based on the women you described, I highly doubt it's about difficulty.

Anyhow, my assumption with backpackers largely ignoring local girls is that backpackers, regardless of how they like to "brand" themselves," tend to be followers who jump completely on board with pack mentality. They consider themselves rebels but many are the sheepiest of the sheep traveling around on hand-outs from mommy and daddy before hanging up their pack and heading back to their life in the suburbs.

Most importantly, the women in their circles have bought all the common myths about local women hook, line, and sinker. It doesn't get much more liberal than a backpacker chick. And thus they tend to shame anyone who associates with third or second world women on a romantic or sexual level. Of course, the backpacker birds give a pass to hippy local girls who drink beer and smoke joints with them and are thus "cool," but every other local girl who gets banged by a Western guy is being taken advantage of and the guy is going to be gossiped about, or even publicly heckled if they know him.

The backpacker guys buy into this because not doing so excludes them from the group and their entire identity. It also impacts their ability to get laid by the women their group sees as the most desirable.

Of course, there are true backpackers in the vein of Ralf Potts who break away from the group and do their own thing as well - true independents and adventurous men worthy of respect - but they are another story entirely.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #15

^ Beyond Borders are taking things down to earth as usual.
Good post man.

Post: #16

(10-21-2014 03:03 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  ^ Agree with everything El Chinito said.

(10-20-2014 10:06 AM)seabridge Wrote:  My second Vietnamese bang was a week after in Hoi An, also a claimed virgin. Both had tattoos(see the latest ROK blogs), but still really innocent girls compared to western standards. The second one gave me a BJ between changing positions, and was good in the bed.

A virgin that's good in bed.

Quote:There's is not alot of competition to the Vietnamese girls. First of, their boys is very beta, small and thin, second, the backpackers don't give them a lot of attention, maybe because of the difficulty, but that's good for me.

Based on the women you described, I highly doubt it's about difficulty.

Anyhow, my assumption with backpackers largely ignoring local girls is that backpackers, regardless of how they like to "brand" themselves," tend to be followers who jump completely on board with pack mentality. They consider themselves rebels but many are the sheepiest of the sheep traveling around on hand-outs from mommy and daddy before hanging up their pack and heading back to their life in the suburbs.

Most importantly, the women in their circles have bought all the common myths about local women hook, line, and sinker. It doesn't get much more liberal than a backpacker chick. And thus they tend to shame anyone who associates with third or second world women on a romantic or sexual level. Of course, the backpacker birds give a pass to hippy local girls who drink beer and smoke joints with them and are thus "cool," but every other local girl who gets banged by a Western guy is being taken advantage of and the guy is going to be gossiped about.

The backpacker guys buy into this because not doing so excludes them from the group and their entire identity. It also impacts their ability to get laid by the women their group sees as the most desirable.

Of course, there are true backpackers in the vein of Ralf Potts who break away from the group and do their own thing as well - true independents and adventurous men worthy of respect - but they are another story entirely.

I'm not sure I'd totally agree with this. There really isn't any social circle or clique that you're worried about when backpacking and because you can make new friends so quickly it's almost like friends are disposable so why would you give a shit if some people disapprove when you can just move on and make a new bunch of friends a couple of days later.
Backpackers tend to stick together and party together a lot of times just because it's easy. In my experience most guys would try/like to score with local women but when you're on a low budget, moving around a lot and maybe staying in a dorm room it's not easy.

I don't backpack now but I do find it funny how different travellers look down on each other. The backpackers would sneer at two week travellers saying they're not getting the real experience and now people who do the RVF type of travelling look down on the backpackers.

Post: #17

^ You're right, it is funny. I've cautioned against travel snobbery myself, which doesn't make me any less guilty of it. but when you're talking about the type of backpackers that move from rave to rave and reggae bar to reggae bar around the world, just partying with other people who look like them, it's kind of hard to not sneer at the relevance of their "cultural experience." And those were obviously the types I was referring to.

I've partied with those types and I had fun, but it's not much of a step up from being a tourist. World travel and backpacking became the "in" thing over the past decade or two, and I got as excited about it as everyone else when I hit that age, but it didn't take long to realize they are largely groups of people who've all done the same shit and seen the same things. Give me a backpacker who has "seen Southeast Asia," and I could probably quote you a large part of their itinerary, the amount of time they spent in each place, what they did there, and even the order in which they did it. Hell, you don't need me to do it for you - pick up a copy of Lonely Planet and it's all right there.

I sneer at it because to me there's nothing culturally-conscious or particularly adventurous about it. Even the big guidebooks that cater to this crowd admit that you can travel through some of these regions without ever really stepping outside of the Westernized bubble. But many of the people who hang in these groups are very self-righteous and act enlightened with their worldy experiences as they do dumb shit like give street kids money, ride elephants, and pose for photographs with sedated tigers.

They tend to travel longer than other folks, but given that the majority spend the same amount of time in each location and rarely break away from their new friends (who usually happen to look and act just like them), it's not all that different, experience-wise.

I remember one time I got stuck in a minivan full of backpackers for an overland trip from the Thailand border and across Laos to Luang Prabang, and it was one of the most annoying travel experiences I've ever had. A bunch of hung over 20-somethings bitching and whining about the dust and the heat and the driving and every little bump in the dirt road the entire way there while I'm marveling out the window at the mountain tribes sitting there gawking at the country's first dirt highway, which had cut right through their villages and spilled them out into another century. I mean, did you guys really come the middle of fucking nowhere in Southeast Asia hoping to have a comfortable ride waiting?

We stopped at a market in the middle of nowhere, and they all sat there looking at the food like it was going to jump up and come back to life. I ordered up some barebecued whatever-the-fuck and jumped into a table of Laos guys and started drinking some local home-brewed whiskey. The next time I crossed Laos like that, I made sure to climb on the local bus, with bags of rice stacked up in the aisles, chickens in a cage, and a pretty little Laotian university student cuddled on my shoulder. We can talk sneering all you want, but I don't think you'll ever convince me that my approach and theirs was anything on the same level.

Of course, once we got to Luang Prabang, they all banded together, as so often happens, and invited me to join. I said no thanks and beelined out of the tourist area. Later that night, I ended up closing down some Laotion disco at 5 am - if you look in the guidebooks, they claim (or at least did at that time) that everything closes at the midnight curfew. I wonder where they get their intel...

I have nothing against these people (apart from them being pussies who can't shut the fuck up and just appreciate that some experiences will be dusty and uncomfortable) - I just don't get why they travel. And I'd rather walk away from the tourist areas in a new location because I know how easy it can be to get stuck in them and soaked into this cliquish thinking.

As for new friends being disposable, meh. I still would argue that the backpacker groups are very caught up with their image and the ideals of the culture they cling to, which is very substantial culture indeed. Many of them dress the same. They act the same. They listen to the same music. you can't tell me they don't influence one another, even in their short time together.

They also clique up very fast as soon as they hit a new location, and the social dynamics roll out very quickly. You may be there for two or three days, but your new group of Western friends have a very real impact on how you behave in any given location, especially when their are "liberated" western women in the mix and a bunch of single guys all hopped up on their adventure abroad and pussy on the brain. And then you move to a new place and do it all over again. There is no time to formulate your own identity or make your own decisions about the place - you're not steering, you're just along for the ride, and sitting behind the wheel is peer pressure and all the people who are selling you experience after experience.

The travel circuit has become a very real part of coming of age in Western culture, but from what you see in the areas these people conglomerate, they're not getting much more worldly experience than if they stayed back home and hit up frat parties.

They blow through places, trash them, stomp on local culture, and act like a bunch of clowns. Inevitably, these places fall to pieces and become not much worth a visit. There's nothing inherently wrong with these folks, per se - it's just that traveling has become far, far more accessible to the average man, and most backpackers are very average people with all the good and bad that entails.

Open up the doors of world travel to the masses, and they inevitably dumb it down and miss the point. That's just how it goes.

Most, not all. I have nothing but respect for a man who throws a pack over his shoulder and truly departs from other travelers to go explore shit on his own. To me, that's backpacking. But the term has been stolen by crowd that thinks they're in an MTV show, and to me that's just not quite travel.

To be fair, I've given people shit on this forum about making many of the same travel mistakes. We're certainly not immune.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #18

^^Exactly. Not only could I not have said it better, I'm not sure I've met anyone that could. Perhaps we've found our new Jack Kerouac.

Post: #19

(10-21-2014 08:54 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  ^ You're right, it is funny. I've cautioned against travel snobbery myself, which doesn't make me any less guilty of it. but when you're talking about the type of backpackers that move from rave to rave and reggae bar to reggae bar around the world, just partying with other people who look like them, it's kind of hard to not sneer at the relevance of their "cultural experience." And those were obviously the types I was referring to.

I've partied with those types and I had fun, but it's not much of a step up from being a tourist. World travel and backpacking became the "in" thing over the past decade or two, and I got as excited about it as everyone else when I hit that age, but it didn't take long to realize they are largely groups of people who've all done the same shit and seen the same things. Give me a backpacker who has "seen Southeast Asia," and I could probably quote you a large part of their itinerary, the amount of time they spent in each place, what they did there, and even the order in which they did it. Hell, you don't need me to do it for you - pick up a copy of Lonely Planet and it's all right there.

I sneer at it because to me there's nothing culturally-conscious or particularly adventurous about it. Even the big guidebooks that cater to this crowd admit that you can travel through some of these regions without ever really stepping outside of the Westernized bubble. But many of the people who hang in these groups are very self-righteous and act enlightened with their worldy experiences as they do dumb shit like give street kids money, ride elephants, and pose for photographs with sedated tigers.

They tend to travel longer than other folks, but given that the majority spend the same amount of time in each location and rarely break away from their new friends (who usually happen to look and act just like them), it's not all that different, experience-wise.

I remember one time I got stuck in a minivan full of backpackers for an overland trip from the Thailand border and across Laos to Luang Prabang, and it was one of the most annoying travel experiences I've ever had. A bunch of hung over 20-somethings bitching and whining about the dust and the heat and the driving and every little bump in the dirt road the entire way there while I'm marveling out the window at the mountain tribes sitting there gawking at the country's first dirt highway, which had cut right through their villages and spilled them out into another century. I mean, did you guys really come the middle of fucking nowhere in Southeast Asia hoping to have a comfortable ride waiting?

We stopped at a market in the middle of nowhere, and they all sat there looking at the food like it was going to jump up and come back to life. I ordered up some barebecued whatever-the-fuck and jumped into a table of Laos guys and started drinking some local home-brewed whiskey. The next time I crossed Laos like that, I made sure to climb on the local bus, with bags of rice stacked up in the aisles, chickens in a cage, and a pretty little Laotian university student cuddled on my shoulder. We can talk sneering all you want, but I don't think you'll ever convince me that my approach and theirs was anything on the same level.

Of course, once we got to Luang Prabang, they all banded together, as so often happens, and invited me to join. I said no thanks and beelined out of the tourist area. Later that night, I ended up closing down some Laotion disco at 5 am - if you look in the guidebooks, they claim (or at least did at that time) that everything closes at the midnight curfew. I wonder where they get their intel...

I have nothing against these people (apart from them being pussies who can't shut the fuck up and just appreciate that some experiences will be dusty and uncomfortable) - I just don't get why they travel. And I'd rather walk away from the tourist areas in a new location because I know how easy it can be to get stuck in them and soaked into this cliquish thinking.

As for new friends being disposable, meh. I still would argue that the backpacker groups are very caught up with their image and the ideals of the culture they cling to, which is very substantial culture indeed. Many of them dress the same. They act the same. They listen to the same music. you can't tell me they don't influence one another, even in their short time together.

They also clique up very fast as soon as they hit a new location, and the social dynamics roll out very quickly. You may be there for two or three days, but your new group of Western friends have a very real impact on how you behave in any given location, especially when their are "liberated" western women in the mix and a bunch of single guys all hopped up on their adventure abroad and pussy on the brain. And then you move to a new place and do it all over again. There is no time to formulate your own identity or make your own decisions about the place - you're not steering, you're just along for the ride, and sitting behind the wheel is peer pressure and all the people who are selling you experience after experience.

The travel circuit has become a very real part of coming of age in Western culture, but from what you see in the areas these people conglomerate, they're not getting much worldly experience than if they stayed back home and hit up frat parties.

They blow through places, trash them, stomp on local culture, and act like a bunch of clowns. Inevitably, these places fall to pieces and become not much worth a visit. There's nothing inherently wrong with these folks, per se - it's just that traveling has become far, far more accessible to the average man, and most backpackers are very average people with all the good and bad that entails.

Open up the doors of world travel to the masses, and they inevitably dumb it down and miss the point. That's just how it goes.

Most, not all. I have nothing but respect for a man who throws a pack over his shoulder and truly departs from other travelers to go explore shit on his own. To me, that's backpacking. But the term has been stolen by crowd that thinks they're in an MTV show, and to me that's just not quite travel.

To be fair, I've given people shit on this forum about making many of the same travel mistakes. We're certainly not immune.

You should save some of this gold for your blog man

Post: #20

(10-21-2014 09:11 AM)Irish Wrote:  You should save some of this gold for your blog man

Touche.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #21

BB I just realized I hadn't repped you man, but that post knocked it out of the park.

No matter where I am, sometimes I can't help myself and sneer at those that aren't "game-aware". You know what I mean? It's not necessarily blue pill...not everyone has to be red pill. But there's a certain level of game awareness that a dude needs to have in order for us to click. And when I see things or people that are at the complete opposite spectrum of that, I can't help but formulate some judgements.

The equivalent of backpackers in SEA would be American or German tourists that you see in Europe; wearing the same polo shirt, shorts, and New Balance sneakers with a fanny pack on either side. Or Japanese tourists in the U.S. that insist on travelling in packs of 20.

To me the reward in travelling is going to a place and immersing yourself in the uncomfortable and new. Duck into a side street, order up a plate of exotic food that you can't pronounce, try to talk to locals...that kind of shit.

Post: #22

Wow!

To be fair BB, there are very few men in the world wired like you. It's just the way you are, and you do certainly thrive in that 'finger on the pulse' type of living. I don't think backpackers, when used in the worst connotation, even realize that they're basically on a cruise ship type of experience. What they're doing is backpacking, and there's no sense in trying to reason with them about it.

Even though I live in SEA, I do sometimes enjoy going out and being able to interact in this type of environment, but at the same time I do really appreciate that I can close the door to my apartment and live a Western life that I feel comfortable with and am used to.

It is a worthy experience - that is living away from your native culture - one that everyone should certainly experience at least once in their lives. Just don't think for a second that it carries the glamor or privilege you may think it does.

Post: #23

(10-21-2014 09:23 AM)Veloce Wrote:  To me the reward in travelling is going to a place and immersing yourself in the uncomfortable and new. Duck into a side street, order up a plate of exotic food that you can't pronounce, try to talk to locals...that kind of shit.

Fuck that culture shit. Give me a plate of chicken fried rice (tailored to the Western palate, of course) and a whiskey bucket and then let's go ziplining.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #24

Vietnamese men are anything but timid. I've seen more fights and shouting matches here in 2 months than I did in the past year in America. Last month I was looking for somewhere to eat, and these three dudes flipped over a table right in front of me and started wailing on a fourth guy for God knows what. I order food and they walk back in a few minutes later, and one of the guys says "Hello sorry" and smiles at me. You can't say Vietnamese people are any more shy or hostile than other people. I've found them to be genuinely warm and interested in foreigners (say Xin chào when they wave and say hello and they will light up like a kid on Christmas) but their tolerance for bull shit is very low. Whereas in the West when an acquaintance pisses you off and you talk about him behind his back like a woman, here they expect you to show respect or they will call you out.

I think maybe your experiences were clouded by preconceived notions, as even in the most touristy section of Saigon I would never expect every guy on a bike to be selling weed. It's just that the hustlers are being the loudest. Trust me when I say most Vietnamese can't stand those guys either. And it is not easy to game the hottest viet girls without speaking the language. I will say that foreigner value is very high outside of the city center in Saigon, but Vietnam is still a conservative culture that frowns upon slutty behavior. Being seen with a westerner can make a girl's friend's and family think less of her. The owner of my guesthouse thought my girlfriend was an actual whore for a whole month.

Post: #25

(10-21-2014 09:23 AM)Veloce Wrote:  To me the reward in travelling is going to a place and immersing yourself in the uncomfortable and new. Duck into a side street, order up a plate of exotic food that you can't pronounce, try to talk to locals...that kind of shit.

Roll out a motor bike with a flat tire and watch the guy curse at you in Vietnamese while people sit next to you eating Pho for breakfast and then charge you $2.50 for 15 minutes of manual labor.