Post: #51

I can also recommend Stuart McRoberts book Beyond Brawn, very thorough and deep guide to weight training. It has helped me tremendously.

Like many others have replied, focus on core movements and do some reading about macro's - keep your calorie intake above your BMR if you're looking into gaining weight. This is paramount on workout days. Stay around maintenance on non-workout days, and keep protein intake high. A casein shake before you go to bed will ensure that you have a steady supply of amino acids in your bloodstream during sleep. 30g is enough, as the body breaks down 6-8g of casein/h.

Have patience.

Post: #52

(08-15-2011 10:36 PM)raliv Wrote:  hey thanks for the information on Starting Strength.

I think I am going to buy the book. I read more into it and I really like his approach to barbell training and especially, his lift techniques.

buy/torrent the one with the videos.. very helpful on getting form right. you can tell the dude is legit from his videos

Post: #53

Ha, just measured my thighs. 25 inches (I'm 5'10'', 31-32'' inch waist). No wonder I fucking hate designer jeans.

Post: #54

(08-09-2011 10:52 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  From all my research, with a good program (heavy compound lifts) a beginner can gain 20-25 lbs in a year (with most of that coming in the first six months). Gaining 15lbs in six months would certainly be awesome. I've also a natural increase in testosterone now that I'm lifting heavy. Just need to stop masturbation now and I should be an animal on weekends.

Any success stories with a similar program?

Compound lifts are definitely important, however, volume is the other half of the key. Charles Staley's EDT program is built on this premise. Choose a weight you can lift for ten consecutive reps, then choose a time zone (i.e. 15 min is optimal), now perform however many sets you can with only 5 reps of that weight during that 15 min period. Now record the number of reps/sets you have performed during that time frame. Next time, beat that number. When you can perform around 20 reps more than when you started, move up in weight by 5 lbs. That simple. The added volume, amount of work, translates into greater uptake of amino acids/protein by the muscles (the pump), resulting in greater size. It is absolutely vital that you eat a lot on this program, and not just protein but carbs and essential fats as well. Also key, working the movement is more important than working the muscle; this is why compound lifts are vital. It has neurological benefits, which result in better athletic/everyday-movement ability.

Post: #55

(08-17-2011 12:54 PM)ElJefe Wrote:  Ha, just measured my thighs. 25 inches (I'm 5'10'', 31-32'' inch waist). No wonder I fucking hate designer jeans.

31"-32" waist is alway dicey. Are we talking actually measurement across the navel (or an inch above) or pants size?

I only ask because pants size are typically 2" or more. When my waist was 33.5" (actual) I could fit in size 31 jeans. I'm probably pushing 34.5" now, and my size 32 still fit fine.

Post: #56

I'm 5'7. 31'' waist in Levi's 527 jeans. My thighs are 24'', finding slacks is almost impossible.

Post: #57

So maybe this is a question better suited for a bodybuilding forum, but considering the amount of people on the forum who have given good responses so far, I'd like to post the following question:

So I had a grand plan to lift at least two/three months, eating lots of food, doing no cardio, and getting significantly stronger. I'm a month and a half in, and I've gained 10 lbs. Even accounting for the creatine water retention , I've definitely gained some fat. Like most guys, I'm pretty lean all over but 5 lbs of fat almost always goes to the belly, meaning 1-2" increase even with such low poundage.

I was already planning on a leangains.com type intermittent fasting cycle for two-three weeks after a while, however, I'm already feeling chubby and I want to start it early. I'm hoping I can drop my bodyfat% and keep my lifts the same and hopefully not lose any strength.

I understand the concept of bulking/cutting and that they should be done in phases. Sorry if you feel asleep reading the above, here is the actual question (hopefully somebody whose experienced intermittent fasting can answer):

Is there any real difference between, say, a bulking phase, two months; cutting phase, one month (total of three months), OR a bulking phase, one month; cutting phase, two weeks; bulking phase, one month; cutting phase, two weeks (total of three months). I want to opt for faster cycling because having a lower body fat is more key for me, and I start to feel sloppy if I'm creeping to 15-16%.

Thanks in advance for any advice/anecdotes.

Post: #58

DC, pics. On bb.com, there are threads where guys post pictures of themselves, and others say whether to cut or bulk. Or you can look at yourself in the mirror and decide, or ask a mature friend who lifts* what he thinks. Also take into account how you dress and what venues you go to. I'm sitting at, I'd guess, 13-15% despite going beachside very frequently. IMO, it doesn't show much when I'm clothed, except for arms that lack a little definition.

*Guys who don't lift, and all girls, will say "you're big enough dude, what are you worrying about?"

Post: #59

(08-22-2011 03:52 PM)basilransom Wrote:  DC, pics. On bb.com, there are threads where guys post pictures of themselves, and others say whether to cut or bulk. Or you can look at yourself in the mirror and decide, or ask a mature friend who lifts* what he thinks. Also take into account how you dress and what venues you go to. I'm sitting at, I'd guess, 13-15% despite going beachside very frequently. IMO, it doesn't show much when I'm clothed, except for arms that lack a little definition.

*Guys who don't lift, and all girls, will say "you're big enough dude, what are you worrying about?"

Well here's the thing. I guarantee the dudes on a bodybuilding site would say "bulk" and the majority of women would say "cut" (if they knew what that meant). Guess who I'm trying to impress?

In the end though, i guess it really just matters what I think, and what will give me more confidence. I start losing confidence wearing plain t-shirts when my stomach isn't completely flat. Cutting phase it is! I was just wondering if there was any scientific rationale between having longer cycles of either bulking or cutting.

Post: #60

(08-22-2011 04:49 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  Well here's the thing. I guarantee the dudes on a bodybuilding site would say "bulk" and the majority of women would say "cut" (if they knew what that meant). Guess who I'm trying to impress?

In the end though, i guess it really just matters what I think, and what will give me more confidence. I start losing confidence wearing plain t-shirts when my stomach isn't completely flat. Cutting phase it is! I was just wondering if there was any scientific rationale between having longer cycles of either bulking or cutting.

Well, girls were telling me I looked "fine" when I was 150 lbs at 6'1," that I didn't need to gain weight. What girls say is worthless. Until someone hooks up the vajayjays of attractive women to a meter (it's been done for other studies) and gauges their responses to pictures of different men, we won't know.

You also have to factor in how you will feel. If being bigger increases your confidence, it will translate into success with women, aesthetics aside.

I've an amateur interest in aesthetics, and I can't say with certainty what women are most drawn to. It's probably between this



and



Schwarzenegger would have women come up to him on the beach in awe, long before he was a movie star. Just pointing out to the haters that women aren't necessarily turned off by such extreme musculature. It's also unattainable without superhuman training and genetics, plus some steroids.

It looks like Reynolds does no back work - his lats are nonexistent.

Steve Reeves looks ideal to my eye. Somehow, he just has this regal bearing - he is huge, yet looks nothing like the trashy 'meatheads' I see daily. I think being somewhat ectomorphic helps here.



That said, he might look worse in a suit than if he were smaller. So the clothing you wear may affect your goals.

Post: #61

Quote:Guys who don't lift, and all girls, will say "you're big enough dude, what are you worrying about?"

So true. I even had a doctor tell me this.

Post: #62

(08-22-2011 05:46 PM)basilransom Wrote:  What girls say is worthless.

This is absolutely true.

Since I got back from my travels my arms have gotten much larger - they were big before, too. And as soon as a girl has had a little to drink, she can't help touch them.

I do believe, however, that the marginal benefit is decreasing. At some point you'll be muscular enough, then you might as well channel your energy into other projects, because getting bigger won't get you more pussy.

Corollary to above: remember, contrast is king. If your big, don't flaunt it the way you would if you were a girl with a nice rack. That works for men. As a guy, you want to give girls a hint at your real assets - the anticipation and mystery is what attracts her. This is why women are disgusted by huge guys who wear low-rung t-shirts. It offends her sensibilities, but worse, it robs her the opportunity of wondering who you are. And then the vagina snaps shut for ever.

Post: #63

(08-22-2011 02:37 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  So I had a grand plan to lift at least two/three months, eating lots of food, doing no cardio, and getting significantly stronger. I'm a month and a half in, and I've gained 10 lbs. Even accounting for the creatine water retention , I've definitely gained some fat. Like most guys, I'm pretty lean all over but 5 lbs of fat almost always goes to the belly, meaning 1-2" increase even with such low poundage.

I was already planning on a leangains.com type intermittent fasting cycle for two-three weeks after a while, however, I'm already feeling chubby and I want to start it early. I'm hoping I can drop my bodyfat% and keep my lifts the same and hopefully not lose any strength.

I understand the concept of bulking/cutting and that they should be done in phases. Sorry if you feel asleep reading the above, here is the actual question (hopefully somebody whose experienced intermittent fasting can answer):

Is there any real difference between, say, a bulking phase, two months; cutting phase, one month (total of three months), OR a bulking phase, one month; cutting phase, two weeks; bulking phase, one month; cutting phase, two weeks (total of three months). I want to opt for faster cycling because having a lower body fat is more key for me, and I start to feel sloppy if I'm creeping to 15-16%.

Thanks in advance for any advice/anecdotes.

I have been in the same exact situation as you - try to bulk, accumulate too much around the waste, feel fat, go back to focus on losing the stomach and end up never achieving the gains in muscle I wanted. Here's how I fixed the problem:
First, I'm a mesomorph. Google it if you don't know what it is. My body type is well-suited for gains, but I have to be very careful because it's easy to put on fat. You sound like a mesomorph. Meso's have to do a very controlled bulk in order to control the fat gains. Which leads me to:
Second, I did a controlled, clean bulk. I kept to lean proteins, lots of them at that, complex carbs (brown rice, oats, but NO BREAD) and moderate fat intake. Do not, repeat do NOT, buy into that "cheat day" shit when you are trying to bulk. Most guys can eat anything they want while bulking. You can't. Stay on plan. That was the ONLY way I was able to finally achieve my goals.
Third, you have to do cardio. You eat the complex carbs to fuel your weight workouts, but you need to hit the cardio a solid three days/week to try and burn off carbs/fat. Otherwise it's going straight to the belly. Guys on bb.com will tell you to avoid cardio on a bulk but that simply is not the case for someone who is mesomorph.
Fourth, don't overeat. Know your BMR caloric requirement and then add 10% over to gain weight. Ten pounds in one month is way too much. If you bulk as I talked about above (lean proteins, etc) it will take you 2-3 months to gain 1o pounds. But you won't have the fatter belly (some fat is inevitable, but you can cut after you get the muscle).

What I'm telling you is direct experience from someone who had the same exact issues you describe. Happy to give other pointers if you think it's all relevant to your situation. Just come up with your plan, stick to it, and most of all, always question the so-called conventional wisdom. If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work. You just have to try something different.

Edited to add: I don't think it's a good idea to bulk for a short period (two weeks) and then cut for a short period (one week). Your body needs time to adapt to changes. If it isn't obvious from my reply above, I strongly recommend doing a very focused, clean bulk for at least three months and seeing where that gets you. If you avoid the breads/pastas/beans and go light on the other complex carbs (they are a necessary evil for bulking), then I think you will achieve your muscle growth without so much additional fat. Then you can cut up and get rid of the little fat you have left and go bang some hot pussy.

Post: #64

(08-22-2011 08:50 PM)Smitty Wrote:  

(08-22-2011 02:37 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  So I had a grand plan to lift at least two/three months, eating lots of food, doing no cardio, and getting significantly stronger. I'm a month and a half in, and I've gained 10 lbs. Even accounting for the creatine water retention , I've definitely gained some fat. Like most guys, I'm pretty lean all over but 5 lbs of fat almost always goes to the belly, meaning 1-2" increase even with such low poundage.

I was already planning on a leangains.com type intermittent fasting cycle for two-three weeks after a while, however, I'm already feeling chubby and I want to start it early. I'm hoping I can drop my bodyfat% and keep my lifts the same and hopefully not lose any strength.

I understand the concept of bulking/cutting and that they should be done in phases. Sorry if you feel asleep reading the above, here is the actual question (hopefully somebody whose experienced intermittent fasting can answer):

Is there any real difference between, say, a bulking phase, two months; cutting phase, one month (total of three months), OR a bulking phase, one month; cutting phase, two weeks; bulking phase, one month; cutting phase, two weeks (total of three months). I want to opt for faster cycling because having a lower body fat is more key for me, and I start to feel sloppy if I'm creeping to 15-16%.

Thanks in advance for any advice/anecdotes.

I have been in the same exact situation as you - try to bulk, accumulate too much around the waste, feel fat, go back to focus on losing the stomach and end up never achieving the gains in muscle I wanted. Here's how I fixed the problem:
First, I'm a mesomorph. Google it if you don't know what it is. My body type is well-suited for gains, but I have to be very careful because it's easy to put on fat. You sound like a mesomorph. Meso's have to do a very controlled bulk in order to control the fat gains. Which leads me to:
Second, I did a controlled, clean bulk. I kept to lean proteins, lots of them at that, complex carbs (brown rice, oats, but NO BREAD) and moderate fat intake. Do not, repeat do NOT, buy into that "cheat day" shit when you are trying to bulk. Most guys can eat anything they want while bulking. You can't. Stay on plan. That was the ONLY way I was able to finally achieve my goals.
Third, you have to do cardio. You eat the complex carbs to fuel your weight workouts, but you need to hit the cardio a solid three days/week to try and burn off carbs/fat. Otherwise it's going straight to the belly. Guys on bb.com will tell you to avoid cardio on a bulk but that simply is not the case for someone who is mesomorph.
Fourth, don't overeat. Know your BMR caloric requirement and then add 10% over to gain weight. Ten pounds in one month is way too much. If you bulk as I talked about above (lean proteins, etc) it will take you 2-3 months to gain 1o pounds. But you won't have the fatter belly (some fat is inevitable, but you can cut after you get the muscle).

What I'm telling you is direct experience from someone who had the same exact issues you describe. Happy to give other pointers if you think it's all relevant to your situation. Just come up with your plan, stick to it, and most of all, always question the so-called conventional wisdom. If it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work. You just have to try something different.

Edited to add: I don't think it's a good idea to bulk for a short period (two weeks) and then cut for a short period (one week). Your body needs time to adapt to changes. If it isn't obvious from my reply above, I strongly recommend doing a very focused, clean bulk for at least three months and seeing where that gets you. If you avoid the breads/pastas/beans and go light on the other complex carbs (they are a necessary evil for bulking), then I think you will achieve your muscle growth without so much additional fat. Then you can cut up and get rid of the little fat you have left and go bang some hot pussy.

Smitty, thanks for the info. As I mentioned, it was really probably 5-6 actual lbs (fat/muscle, as creatine undoubtedly gains a 6' person a sig. amount of water weight) but regardless, it was too much fat probably.

I do OK, but I should watch more closely the 2nd time around. I was trying to clean bulk, and not eat more than 3000-3500 cals a day, but alas too many carbs (including beer) was probably the x-factor. I need to switch over to Jack and diets and throttle down the drinking.

It's been about 6 weeks, so I feel like a 2-3 week cut might be in order. Advocates of "eat stop eat" and leangains.com have actually stated its possible to get stronger while losing serious fat. Its a pretty intense program but I'm going to go for it. I'm thinking ~2400 cals on "feed" days (low carb and two protein shakes a day) and of course 0 cals on three fasting days a week. Its best to start up a feed day right after a fasted workout. Any experience with intermittent fasting?

I think your clean bulk recommendation is good, and I will focus more on that approach once I lose a few pounds (undoing my overzealous approach). With some cardio, and three days of intermittent fasting, I should be able to lose 2-3 lbs a week of almost all fat. I've done it before (its not easy to fast however). Before anybody calls foul, I'd recommend checking the site out... the dude is incredibly scientific and rips conventional wisdom a new a-hole.

The Ryan Reynolds look above is pretty achievable, and something I think would fit me well. Dude looks smaller in that picture than I thought he was. If you want your mind to be blown, check out the following:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=my6IroYcyEI

Post: #65

On second thought, Ryan Reynold's physique is pretty pointless. As soon as he puts on a shirt, he looks like a fairly normal guy. And anywhere he'd have his shirt off, he'd have much brawnier competition.

Another thing: say girls find a Reynolds physique most arousing. That doesn't mean it's the most effective when gaming. When guys assign status to each other, girls pick up on it and reward them accordingly. That's certainly the case in say, college fraternities. So a guy may get status for being bigger, and thus more pussy than a skinny jacked Ryan Reynolds type. It's a little like being tall - say 6'2" may be ideal, but she may find herself drawn to the tallest dudes in the club, all else equal.

Post: #66

Ryan Reynolds has a very thin frame (he's an ectomorph). That look cannot be achieved by someone who does not naturally have that body. He has skinny twig legs (and even wears those gay skinny jeans). Depending on one's body type, if not naturally skinny (and bony), I'd be trying to get the Joe Manganiello look (werewolf from True Blood, google him for pictures).

Post: #67

(08-22-2011 09:14 PM)_DC_ Wrote:  Any experience with intermittent fasting?

Yep, I'm a fan. But I can't say with certainty that it helped me achieve growth of any type.
I'm a big fan of either IF (6 hour window to eat, 18 hour window off), or just doing a straight 24 hour fast with a single shake in the morning and a few small pieces of fruit during the day. Need to fast to keep the body clean.

Post: #68

Hey guys, just wanted to chime in with my experience with Starting Strength.

I'm 27, about 5'10, with a very small frame. I'd lifted regularly for about a decade doing stupid isolation routines and never saw much progress. I never weighed more than 125lbs.

I discovered starting strength about a year ago and did the program for about a year. I also paired it with the GOMAD diet (drink a Gallon of Milk a Day) to get extra calories. The results:

Beginning body weight: 125lbs
Squat: 95lbs
Press: 65lbs
Bench: 135lbs
Deadlift: 135lbs

1 year later:
Bodyweight 190
Squat 225lbs
Press: 105lbs
Bench: 180lbs
Deadlift: 250lbs

My lifts didn't improve as much as I would have liked due to various BJJ injuries (broken toes, sprained elbow, strained ribs, the list goes on), but still are a huge improvement from where I started.

Some of the weight gain was fat, and I developed a decent sized belly. I had a consult with Johnny Pain from strengthvillain.com and modified my diet to cut the fat I gained while still building muscle. 3 months later I had lost the belly and kept most of my strength. Would have kept more if not for more bjj injuries.

Current stats:
Bodyweight: 155lbs (with a near six pack)
Squat: 170lbs
Press: 100lbs:
Bench: 160lbs
Deadlift: 200lbs

TL/DR:
I gained 65lbs of bodyweight over a year doing starting strength and GOMAD. I've cut the fat and kept most of the strength. Final conclusion is that I gained 30 pounds of muscle in a little over a year (probably more, but I'm sure I lost some during the fat cut.

Post: #69

Laser, I've heard of gomad working also for hardgainers, which at 125 lbs you were no doubt. I'm 185 and a 34" waist and that's without any serious lifting in my past so if anything gomad would be too many extra cals for me. Congrats on your progress.

As for ideal male body, even though internet polls are notorious bad, ivr scoured a few with a huge sample size and the ryan reynolds look, up to maybe a 10-15 lb beefier build seem to be overwhelmingly preferred. The big three for male body attractiveness (in general of course some girls aren't par for the course: height, low bodyfat - small waist, and broad shoulders. The first you have zero control over, the second max control, and thr third one somewhere in between. The last two create the coveted v-shape torso.

In general its probably the safest bet to be 6-10% bf and build at least some muscle (so you're not scrawny). Through my research I was surprised that the brad pitt fight club, swimmer, soccer player seemed to win out significantly against a stronger build even at the same bf.

Disclaimer: again, this is "in general". Your fb might love your skinny or fat ass! Also I totally respect people who put on a bunch of muscle bc they want too.

Post: #70

(08-23-2011 07:53 AM)Laser Wrote:  TL/DR:
I gained 65lbs of bodyweight over a year doing starting strength and GOMAD. I've cut the fat and kept most of the strength. Final conclusion is that I gained 30 pounds of muscle in a little over a year (probably more, but I'm sure I lost some during the fat cut.

Laser, I can't tell you how awesome it is to read your post, because your body type (and struggles) sound just like mine.

With respect to your fat gain, what was your dietary adjustment to lose the fat. Could you have simply started on the modified diet from the beginning and seen your results, or did you have to do the GOMAD thing for the gains? What was your daily protein and calorie intake? If you could post your actual diet that would be awesome.

Post: #71

(08-23-2011 07:53 AM)Laser Wrote:  I discovered starting strength about a year ago and did the program for about a year. I also paired it with the GOMAD diet (drink a Gallon of Milk a Day) to get extra calories. The results:

Did you really do GOMAD every day? Did you use whole milk or skim?
I've considered doing it, but really I'm not sure about the effects on my health or cholesterol levels. Those are some huge weight gains.

Post: #72

When I was doing SS and 1/2 GOMAD/day, I did make some fairly large weight gains, about 30 lbs in a few months. Since then and cutting back on eating, I'm almost back down to my original weight, but the difference in physique is significant; I can do several handstand pushups, and while I'm NOT "big" by any means, the difference in shoulders and carriage is noticeable. Plus I like the way a current interest constantly touches me, squeezes my arms, etc.

As with so many things, the actual thing (the physical difference) is fairly minimal, but the difference in confidence is significant.

Post: #73

for cutting look up carb cycling

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web...lKcDsgGz5g


Steve reeves looks amazing.

Post: #74

(08-23-2011 12:33 PM)Menace Wrote:  

(08-23-2011 07:53 AM)Laser Wrote:  TL/DR:
I gained 65lbs of bodyweight over a year doing starting strength and GOMAD. I've cut the fat and kept most of the strength. Final conclusion is that I gained 30 pounds of muscle in a little over a year (probably more, but I'm sure I lost some during the fat cut.

Laser, I can't tell you how awesome it is to read your post, because your body type (and struggles) sound just like mine.

With respect to your fat gain, what was your dietary adjustment to lose the fat. Could you have simply started on the modified diet from the beginning and seen your results, or did you have to do the GOMAD thing for the gains? What was your daily protein and calorie intake? If you could post your actual diet that would be awesome.

While on GOMAD my calorie intake was ridiculous, easily 5000 plus per day. The gallon of whole milk alone was worth 2200 calories.

Once I decided to get the six pack back, I did a phone consult with Johnny Pain, a well-respected strength coach, in order to make sure I did it right. I probably could have made good gains without the GOMAD and following his dietary advice if I had known about it, but I don't regret my year of GOMADing. I'd highly encourage anyone wanting to make some serious gains to check out his site and book a phone consult. He'll explain his exercise philosophy and tailor a diet and exercise program specifically for you. It wasn't too expensive, about $125 I believe.

Dietary adjustments: Used carb timing, which amounted to 6 meals a day on the following schedule:
7am: Shake
10am: Shake
12 pm: Lunch - eat at least 50 grams of protein and limit carbs to size of my fist (approx 50 grams)
3 PM: Shake
7 PM: Dinner - Eat at least 50 grams of protein and no carbs
10 PM: Shake

Each shake except for the night-time shake was 50 grams of protein and 50 grams of carbs (i used swedish oat starch from trueprotein.com), essentially a liquid meal. The basic idea was to make sure I get at least 300 grams of protein in a day and have no carbs from dinner on.

1 cheat day per week where I could pig out.

Exercise adjustments:
Still lifted heavy compound movements using the strength villain program (similar to starting strength, but w/ a few modifications)
Added High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) twice a week
Did burpees every morning with the goal of achieving villain challenge #1 (100 burpees in 5 min).

Post: #75

What is a decent goal for bench squat dlift press etc in terms of body weight?