Post: #1

https://nomadlist.io/#

Specifically, can you live in the center of the city for 650 a month?

I've never seen a # that low before.

WIA

Post: #2

^ You could, but money would be tight.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #3

That site is a fantastic idea, with very nice visual execution, thanks. Surprised I hadn't repped WIA previously for all his contributions.

It seems some prices may be off, for instance I' m a bit skeptical Davao is ~1200 vs ~1700 for Cebu, where I am now. I haven't been to Davao, but it seems a lot of things would have to be a lot cheaper and the cities are about the same population. Apartment prices seem inflated in Cebu, I've seen very small grimy studios with no hot water for $250, to get into anything real clean like a newer condo it seems to me more like near $800 - $1000. You can live nicely in a Minneapolis or Sacramento apartment for that.

And the air in Cebu sucks, it smells like Jeepney exhaust all day every day, never smells nice, and on bad days about 1/5 it is almost suffocating. It's not just my opinion, the guard outside the Tune hotel had red watering eyes on a stagnant day.

But a site like that has to start somewhere.

I've heard second hand from other nomads and from a friend teaching in a school there that Chaing Mai has the best rep for QOL for an SEA expat city. There are big box consumer stores, and my friend is paying in the $300-400 range monthly for an apartment that has a pool .

Post: #4

It is an excellent site and resource, but based on personal experience I have to say that Saigon is overpriced on his index. HCMC is listed as being more expensive than Medellin and Philippine cities, but it's not. Vietnam is cheaper than both Colombia and the Philippines and should be more in line with Phnom Penh, even if you live in Saigon District 1. I love the internet speed index though, no one else has it but it's of critical importance. Something needs to replace that numbeo site, which I have found to be rather worthless. So how can we chip in to fine-tune this page?

Post: #5

In Chiang Mai, yes. It's one of the reasons it's full of non-working foreigners.
$100/month scooter + $30/month SIM phone+internet + $250/month room (aircon and wifi inc.) and you are set for your basics, plus Thai food is dirt cheap.
However if you want to live like a normal 'westerner visiting Chiang Mai', including drinks and western food, you will be paying plenty more.

Post: #6

(10-05-2014 04:39 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  It seems some prices may be off, for instance I' m a bit skeptical Davao is ~1200 vs ~1700 for Cebu, where I am now. I haven't been to Davao, but it seems a lot of things would have to be a lot cheaper and the cities are about the same population. Apartment prices seem inflated in Cebu, I've seen very small grimy studios with no hot water for $250, to get into anything real clean like a newer condo it seems to me more like near $800 - $1000. You can live nicely in a Minneapolis or Sacramento apartment for that.

And the air in Cebu sucks, it smells like Jeepney exhaust all day every day, never smells nice, and on bad days about 1/5 it is almost suffocating. It's not just my opinion, the guard outside the Tune hotel had red watering eyes on a stagnant day.

$500 studio or one bedroom condo
$70 utilities
$20 internet
$10 cell phone
$400 food ($50 per week on groceries + $50 per week eating out) -- that actually may be a bit high, though I probably spend close to that since I spend a lot of time in cafes

$50 gets you a decent amount of food in the supermarkets, but if you send a girl to the wet markets things get outrageously cheap. I used to have a culinary grad who'd leave with $10 or $20 and come back with bags full of fresh meat, veggies, and fruit.

Dinner for two at a nicer restaurant is like $15. A more basic, local spot is even cheaper.

I'm actually seeing $1,038 on the site, which would cover those basics.

$1,200 leaves you $200 for whatever.

Movies are like $3 a pop at the nicer theaters.

You can bring a girl to the beach for the day + food for about $20, including ferry and cab fare. You can do island hopping or diving for $20 a head.

You can go from one side of the city to the other for about $3 to $5 in cab fare. I rarely spend more than $1 to 2 on cabs. I'm not a big fan of jeepneys, but I'll jump on a tricycle where viable.

A bucket of beer is like $5 or less. Liquor selection varies depending on where you go but there's very little markup. I've gone out drinking bottles and food for like $20.

The most expensive gym is like $50 a month.

You can get a maid for like $50 to $100 a month.

(10-05-2014 05:16 AM)Corroncho Wrote:  It is an excellent site and resource, but based on personal experience I have to say that Saigon is overpriced on his index. HCMC is listed as being more expensive than Medellin and Philippine cities, but it's not. Vietnam is cheaper than both Colombia and the Philippines and should be more in line with Phnom Penh, even if you live in Saigon District 1. I love the internet speed index though, no one else has it but it's of critical importance. Something needs to replace that numbeo site, which I have found to be rather worthless. So how can we chip in to fine-tune this page?

Is there anywhere good to look at apartments online for HCMC?

Post: #7

You can but remember that although street food is nice, it's not very healthy, they use the worst oil you could imagine and a lot of MSG.

$600 seems quite low if you want to go out and have fun. If you are staying home working, then yeah it's doable, but I wouldnt want to live on that much.

Post: #8

That same website says Omaha Nebraska costs more than New York city?

That can't be right?

Post: #9

Very good information.

Post: #10

(10-05-2014 05:19 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  In Chiang Mai, yes. It's one of the reasons it's full of non-working foreigners.
$100/month scooter + $30/month SIM phone+internet + $250/month room (aircon and wifi inc.) and you are set for your basics, plus Thai food is dirt cheap.
However if you want to live like a normal 'westerner visiting Chiang Mai', including drinks and western food, you will be paying plenty more.

That's insane. Thanks Phoenix.

WIA

Post: #11

Great site, thanks for sharing it WIA!
I'm also looking at CM as a potential place to post up for the winter to get work done. CM has everything someone would want in terms of comforts at some of lowest prices anywhere on this planet.
For about 1500/month, one would have a pretty sweet lifestyle there as a single male with no dependent. I've heard of couples having a great lifestyle on that for the both of them.

Was puzzled to see on that site that it costs more in Boretown aka Toronto, than Tokyo! Unreal! At least in Tokyo, you have one of top 3 primest cities in the world while Toronto, don't even bother...

I'm glad I'm not there anymore!

Post: #12

Enigma, the best luck I had with apartments in HCMC was on Craigslist. There is a range of serviced apartments all throughout the city in every price bracket, lots of livable places starting at $300 and going up from there. I finally settled on a 1BR for $330 with hot water, a/c (electricity included), mini-fridge, maid service, balcony, only a shared kitchen but there's no reason to cook in Saigon anyway. The only drawback is that you need to be able to move quickly when they pop up, so it's probably better to show up without long-term accommodation and then hit the streets, definitely check a few out because those apartments range wildly in quality. Just don't make the rookie mistake I made with my first apartment there and move into a place where the owner is living with his family; an absentee owner is much less likely to be bothered by a parade of sluts.

Post: #13

Can't say about Chiang Mai, but the rate listed for Western cities is very high.

Edit: This list is ridiculous. Basel is cheaper than LA? Santa Monica is $2600 a month but Los Angeles is $4200?? Santa Monica is among the most expensive parts of LA to live in!

Post: #14

(10-05-2014 06:47 PM)Corroncho Wrote:  Enigma, the best luck I had with apartments in HCMC was on Craigslist. There is a range of serviced apartments all throughout the city in every price bracket, lots of livable places starting at $300 and going up from there. I finally settled on a 1BR for $330 with hot water, a/c (electricity included), mini-fridge, maid service, balcony, only a shared kitchen but there's no reason to cook in Saigon anyway. The only drawback is that you need to be able to move quickly when they pop up, so it's probably better to show up without long-term accommodation and then hit the streets, definitely check a few out because those apartments range wildly in quality. Just don't make the rookie mistake I made with my first apartment there and move into a place where the owner is living with his family; an absentee owner is much less likely to be bothered by a parade of sluts.

If you get them time, could you list some of the serviced apartments in the HCM thread (if there is one)?

Post: #15

(10-05-2014 06:50 PM)berserk Wrote:  

(10-05-2014 06:47 PM)Corroncho Wrote:  Enigma, the best luck I had with apartments in HCMC was on Craigslist. There is a range of serviced apartments all throughout the city in every price bracket, lots of livable places starting at $300 and going up from there. I finally settled on a 1BR for $330 with hot water, a/c (electricity included), mini-fridge, maid service, balcony, only a shared kitchen but there's no reason to cook in Saigon anyway. The only drawback is that you need to be able to move quickly when they pop up, so it's probably better to show up without long-term accommodation and then hit the streets, definitely check a few out because those apartments range wildly in quality. Just don't make the rookie mistake I made with my first apartment there and move into a place where the owner is living with his family; an absentee owner is much less likely to be bothered by a parade of sluts.

If you get them time, could you list some of the serviced apartments in the HCM thread (if there is one)?

Beserk, those apartments come and go on a daily basis; the good ones are snapped up quickly, but there are always more popping up. All you can really do is check HCMC Craigslist each morning, send out some texts and visit them individually. Just check internet speeds and water pressure while there, make sure that electricity is included in the price, and ensure that your window looks out into an alley rather than a busy street that will wake you up every morning at 6:00 am with traffic.

Post: #16

(10-05-2014 06:49 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  Can't say about Chiang Mai, but the rate listed for Western cities is very high.

Omaha? 5256?

Naw.

http://www.hopkinshometeam.com/blog/top-...hoods.html

Just doing the cocktail napkin math would put living it up in Omaha @ ~2500, if not 1750.

WIA

Post: #17

(10-05-2014 07:19 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Texas Cities and NYC look right to me.

This list indicates one can live in an apartment in Dallas or Austin while spending 2200-2500 a month.

Let's do the math (Applies to Most Major American Metro Areas):
Unfurnished Apartment in "Trendy" Area One BR - 1.1K$-1.6K$ Monthly Rent
Utilities Including Cable - $300-$400 Monthly at least
Car Payments/Car Rental - $500-$600 Monthly
Car Insurance - $120-$150 Monthly At Least
Health Insurance $150 Monthly At Least
Total - $2170-$2900
(Before Groceries/Dining Out/Entertainment/Gas Expenses/Dates/Uber/Lyft/Furniture Purchase/Furniture Movers, etc)

Yeah this list makes a bit of sense regarding North American living

Post: #18

(10-05-2014 07:20 PM)Brosemite Wrote:  

(10-05-2014 07:19 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Texas Cities and NYC look right to me.

This list indicates one can live in an apartment in Dallas or Austin while spending 2200-2500 a month.

Let's do the math (Applies to Most Major American Metro Areas):
Unfurnished Apartment in "Trendy" Area One BR - 1.1K$-1.6K$ Monthly Rent
Utilities Including Cable - $300-$400 Monthly at least
Car Payments/Car Rental - $500-$600 Monthly
Car Insurance - $120-$150 Monthly At Least
Health Insurance $150 Monthly At Least
Total - $2170-$2900
(Before Groceries/Dining Out/Entertainment/Gas Expenses/Dates/Furniture Purchase/Furniture Movers, etc)

Yeah this list makes a bit of sense regarding North American living

Add $200 for gas
$40 for tolls
$400 for groceries

When people talk about "moving to Texas because it's so cheap" this is my reaction:

Post: #19

Interesting site, haven't seen it before. As others mentioned it definitely seems that some prices are quite a bit off, or may not always be based on equivalent levels of eg. eating out.
Cost of living for locals are also somewhat inflated in at least the couple of cases I can confirm - might be what some foreigners feel they would need for a good lifestyle there, but certainly not what all the actual locals, speaking average income, have available or need to spend.

I've used this one at various times - http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/ (also has a comparative option from a menu). Matches better with my own price experiences in the locations I'm familiar with.

Post: #20

(10-05-2014 07:52 PM)MikeS Wrote:  Interesting site, haven't seen it before. As others mentioned it definitely seems that some prices are quite a bit off, or may not always be based on equivalent levels of eg. eating out.
Cost of living for locals are also somewhat inflated in at least the couple of cases I can confirm - might be what some foreigners feel they would need for a good lifestyle there, but certainly not what all the actual locals, speaking average income, have available or need to spend.

I've used this one at various times - http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/ (also has a comparative option from a menu). Matches better with my own price experiences in the locations I'm familiar with.

Numbeo is very precise in my experience, though housing can be a bit off, on the city center part for shorter stays.

Post: #21

You won't die living in CM on $650 per month, but you might want to.

$1,000 you can live ok. $1,500 fairly nicely. $2,000+ and you've got it made.

It mostly comes down to rent, food and partying. Personally, I no longer want to live in studios, so I pay more for a one bedroom. I spend $50-$100 per night when I go party in bkk, a bit cheaper in CM. Can keep the cost down if you drink shit beer. I drink vodka usually. So if you party a couple times a week it adds up. I also eat western food quite a bit, which isn't cheap. $10-$20 per meal. Even Subway is $7. $17 all you can eat sushi buffet without drinks. Maybe less in CM.

If you're in your early twenties you can rough it and still enjoy on 1k per month. But if you're not college aged anymore you'll probably want to have a bit more cash to enjoy spending.

Post: #22

(10-07-2014 11:13 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  You won't die living in CM on $650 per month, but you might want to.

$1,000 you can live ok. $1,500 fairly nicely. $2,000+ and you've got it made.

It mostly comes down to rent, food and partying. Personally, I no longer want to live in studios, so I pay more for a one bedroom. I spend $50-$100 per night when I go party in bkk, a bit cheaper in CM. Can keep the cost down if you drink shit beer. I drink vodka usually. So if you party a couple times a week it adds up. I also eat western food quite a bit, which isn't cheap. $10-$20 per meal. Even Subway is $7. $17 all you can eat sushi buffet without drinks. Maybe less in CM.

If you're in your early twenties you can rough it and still enjoy on 1k per month. But if you're not college aged anymore you'll probably want to have a bit more cash to enjoy spending.

Agreed, but surprised at your budget for Chiang Mai. I know a couple of people living on smaller budgets and they don't seem to complain. I guess it comes down to lifestyle. If you're the sort of person who would rather smoke some weed and chill than go out during the week, then it can be very cheap. If you want quality goods and quality service, then it can be quite expensive.

In Bangkok, 100.000 THB/month is a good lifestyle for me, this including all kinds of extra expenses such as travel, insurance, purchases here and there which add up. 60K would be my minimum I'd be willing to live in Bangkok on. I could live on less if there was a beach around. I'm not sure if you get that much higher quality of living in Bangkok for 100+K than you do in a bunch of other places.

Overall, I don't think Bangkok is that good value for money anymore. There are hidden costs everywhere to escape living in a crammed polluted city with low quality local goods and services. I've also found street food to have decreased significantly in quality during the last decade. Maybe it's just getting a bit older though. I wouldn't dream of roughing it like I did in my early 20s now though.

If I'm going back to Thailand, it will probably be Chiang Mai next.

Post: #23

I spend around 30k month in Bangkok and seem to do fine. I have a awesome apartment for 10k that has a proper gym (two squat racks), tennis courts, pool and all the usual stuff. this is kind of an old blog post, but I listed our my costs last year here.

My average day tends to be chilling at home for the most part and working on various online projects. Once or twice a week ill go out and eat (western food). Perhaps twice a month I'll go out drinking. When I do go out, it's usually with 4-6 friends we get a few bottles which works out cheaper. I have a really basic lifestyle compared to most. On a 100k budget I would be balling out of control, but then that would mean I would have to work more..

There's still awesome value to be had in Bangkok, it sounds kind of cliche and I feel dirty even saying it but you 'need to know where to go' to get it. Awesome value for buffets, public transportation etc. I tend to stay way from street food these days, too much bad oil and MSG, I shop at tesco 2-3 times a week and buy all my own food and cook it.


As Rio said, 30k a month can easily turn into 50-60k a month if you're going out 2-3 times a week. When I first got here, my drinking costs were x2/x3 times my rent.

CM is a little bit too boring (for me), there's not much to do and the choice of clubs and restaurants (western) is much more limited. There hundreds of great places to eat in BKK, that it would take you years to eat at them all, more stuff happening too. Having said that, BKK and CM are two totally different places and it's not to fair to compare one against the other as they offer different lifestyle.

Post: #24

You can live on less than 30k baht in CM, but it will mean living in a studio and not a one bedroom, not eating out at western places (or even decent Thai restaurants) much, and not going out much. Those are three things that I personally like to do so I wouldn't want to live on less than 30k.

You also won't be taking many girls out on dates. If you snag up a decent girl she isn't going to want to eat 30 baht noodles and drink Leo all of the time.

Posts like this are always going viral, and they are bullshit: http://migrationology.com/2011/07/cost-o...-thailand/
Especially his food costs. Triple his amount and then you are at a more realistic figure. And as Afarang said, street food is garbage.

Now, he might not be lying, but what kind of man wants to share a $120 studio with another man and eat like a little girl?

So I'd say you can definitely live on less than 30k, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to.

Post: #25

(10-07-2014 01:15 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  You can live on less than 30k baht in CM, but it will mean living in a studio and not a one bedroom, not eating out at western places (or even decent Thai restaurants) much, and not going out much. Those are three things that I personally like to do so I wouldn't want to live on less than 30k.

You also won't be taking many girls out on dates. If you snag up a decent girl she isn't going to want to eat 30 baht noodles and drink Leo all of the time.

Posts like this are always going viral, and they are bullshit: http://migrationology.com/2011/07/cost-o...-thailand/
Especially his food costs. Triple his amount and then you are at a more realistic figure. And as Afarang said, street food is garbage.

Now, he might not be lying, but what kind of man wants to share a $120 studio with another man and eat like a little girl?

So I'd say you can definitely live on less than 30k, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to.

Yeah I saw that. No hot water and he doesn't even have a bed. I get a bit annoyed too when people eating street food every day say it's great, yeah it tastes great but prob not the best thing for you. He's also sharing a studio with what looks like at least two other people.

I was thinking about living on "500 baht" per day and logging it for a whole month in Bangkok. I can't do it this month due to a visa run and friends coming, but I might do it next month and hopefully we can see what it really gets you.