Post: #126

Any of you guys have more leg mass than upper body mass/muscle? The more I am learning, punches start with legs and it helps with balance and standing up after a big hit. So it isn't a bad thing. But when people are looking at other guys (for sizing them up) I think most look at upper body not the legs.

Watching something on Naseem Hamed apparently he had a lot of strength in the legs but his upper body wasn't huge.

He seemed to be a pretty good fighter.

Post: #127

Naseem was an amazing puncher. I'm sure he had big strong legs which contributed to his power, but unfortunately no amount of leg training can turn somebody into a concussive puncher if they're not born that way. He could knock guys out, while off balance, and moving backwards. I've never seen power like that on anybody else that I can think of. Randall Bailey maybe if he could box better.

I'm actually the opposite build; unusually skinny legs (I think this is why I'm so light for my height) and a relatively muscular upper body. I'm lucky in that I have good power in my straight right, but then on the other hand my hooks are nothing special. I've seen the same with a lot of tall skinny guys, and I think it's probably something to do with leverages (see Thomas Hearns). Short squat muscular guys tend to be much better hookers (e.g. Tyson)

Post: #128

Close. A punch comes from your toes and extends to your hands, like a bull whip.

Look at how thin and light a bull whip is. But you get force due to its length.

Few people every learn how to punch from their toes, through their hips, and to their hands.

It's a connection from the ground up.

Imagine a bullwhip starting from your toes and passing through your body into your hands.

Even imagine it as a color or as a electrical whip that passes from your body.

Watch what will happen to your punching power once you're able to properly snap the whip.

Post: #129

Watch this video. But do me a favor. DO NOT look at his hands.

Look at their toes and their hips.

That is where the power comes from.

You are not punching with your hands or arms. You are creating force from the floor up, passing that through your hips, and then your hands move.

Post: #130

This guy looks "big guy fat." Look how fast that hook it. It's like a whip.

Post: #131

A video found off of Mike's above. This was about punching properly but there is some up close footage of the feet. Thanks MikeCF.

Post: #132

(09-10-2014 09:27 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  Any of you guys have more leg mass than upper body mass/muscle?

A man whose legs are bigger than his upper body is usually an athlete.

A man whose upper body is bigger than his legs is usually a "bodybuilder" or "weight lifter".

Well balanced muscle mass, consistent with the laws of physics, motion, leverage, and engineering is often best.

---
Look at elite athletes. It is extremely rare that an elite athlete would have an upper body that is substantially larger than his legs.

Skinny legs with a large upper body is just a poor design if the goal is to move quickly and explosively in all directions.

If we were to design and engineer a man who was an elite athlete, it wouldn't make much sense to make that man "top heavy".

Physics dictate that we should give that man strong legs, a strong back and ass, and a strong core.

---

Look at fast, strong, and explosive animals like horses, cats, monkeys, etc -- They have tremendously strong asses, trunks, and cores but skinny extended limbs.

If this was the reverse, if they had big arms but a weak core, ass, and trunk.. They would not be able to survive in the wild.

Evolution did not make them "top heavy". Evolution and them "core strong" and "body strong". They have to be able to explode at any moment.

A man with a huge upper body but small legs will not be able to explode as well as a man with strong legs and a strong trunk.

In fact, many of the original sports performance coaches observed animals. The way their body is designed, the way they move their bodies, the way they train and stretch their bodies.

Explosive animals are generally not built like "bodybuilders", they are built like athletes.

Horses, cats, dogs, monkeys, etc. Even gorillas have well balanced and equally distributed muscle mass.

I can't think of one animal that has a larger upper body compare to its lower body?

---

Of, course, like everything in life, there are always exceptions

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(09-11-2014 12:28 PM)Kieran Wrote:  Naseem was an amazing puncher.

He claimed that his punching power was a gift from God.

He couldn't even tell you how or why he had power.

Some guys are just blessed

---

Mike Tyson has huge legs, a huge ass, and a thick, strong truck.

His arms and chest are small in comparison.

Post: #133

^^ Gio you should write Hallmark cards! I don't feel so bad now that more of my weight is in my legs.

@MikeCF, a little bit of story. So I was at Wild Card today because I wanted to work solely on footwork and my left hook (watching those videos). My trainer was there, though it was not a training day for us, and I mentioned that I have been watching videos (while I was on the treadmill), and he rolls his eyes (like oh geesh you newbie) and then I said it was Roach's. His attitude changes. He runs over and tells Freddie. I follow in a few we are doing my wraps by the desk and I mentioned how I appreciated the videos. Freddie is a very nice man, and I mention there was this giant guy hammering those bags. So one of the other guys runs off and grabs the guy. He comes over and says, "So I heard you said I don't hit very hard."

Gulp...he gave me a wink, we all laughed.

A tons of guys were there in the AM so got to see a lot of sparring. One of these days, but I better learn to move properly and be able to defend myself those guys were hitting like trucks.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyone know good left hook exercises? I was using the speedbag to practice today. My trainer had me do it where the speedbag is held against the board and then dropped, it swings and as it swings back up to the release position, I am supposed to hit it and pin it against the board. I thought left hooks were supposed to be more parallel to the ground. This technique is sort of a 45 degree angle - I guess it is aiming for the chin, right? But what do I know (nothing), I am learning.

Post: #134

^ Someone just learned a valuable lesson in networking.

Post: #135

^^ It's a good gym, I appreciate when you suggested it to me. When I go in I just try to do my work and make small talk when convenient. Most guys are busy working on their craft so I don't really want to bother anyone. But they are all pretty humble, don't sense much attitude. I think the biggest thing is just going in consistently and showing I take it seriously. That has probably done the most for me as far as meeting people. It has been a blast so far.

But it is weird to bump into current and former champions, guys I saw on the tv, etc. And their all pretty chill. Hell, forgot to mention, today a current champ helped me with that left hook also, he just walked up and showed me. I heard Tyson dropped by but I wasn't around, that would have been pretty cool to see him.

Post: #136

(09-10-2014 09:27 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  Any of you guys have more leg mass than upper body mass/muscle?

I do.

If I skip the gym for 5-7 days I guarantee I'll lose 10-20 lbs off my bench press, but I could skip the gym for a month and still squat 225lb x 10 without even trying hard.

Without sounding my thighs are basically like granite. But I've no upper body wo constantly weight training.

Post: #137

(09-12-2014 01:08 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(09-11-2014 12:28 PM)Kieran Wrote:  Naseem was an amazing puncher.

He claimed that his punching power was a gift from God.

He couldn't even tell you how or why he had power.

Some guys are just blessed

---

Mike Tyson has huge legs, a huge ass, and a thick, strong truck.

His arms and chest are small in comparison.

It's a really interesting topic for me. I personally believe that true KO power (within the weight class of course, because obviously a big heavy guy will hit hard relative to a light guy), is pretty much all genetic. There are fighters that have to try to hit hard, sit down on their punches, wear their opponent down, and land a perfectly placed shot that the opponent doesn't see coming in order to get a knockout, and then on the other hand you have fighters like Randall Bailey, Naseem Hamed, or Thomas Hearns who can be off balance, moving backwards, and score knockdowns out of nowhere with both their left and right.

It doesn't seem to have much relationship to build either, although I think there's a tendency for good hookers to be muscular and squat (e.g. Tyson), and for good straight punchers to be skinnier and longer limbed (e.g. Thomas Hearns).

My guess is that it's down to some rare combination of high fast twitch muscle fibre composition and the ability to recruit them, bone density, and co-ordination. Of course technique is a factor, but there are too many guys with great technique that can't crack an egg (e.g. Malignaggi), meanwhile I've also seen skinny kids come into the gym and hit like a truck on their first day.

I'd say it's comparable to running 100m, jumping high, or hitting home runs in baseball. I had friends who at 14-15, skinny, and around 5'8 could run sub 11 second hundreds and dunk a basketball without ever having trained for either thing. While others will never dunk a basketball or break 11.5 no matter how hard they train.

The good news is that if you don't have natural KO power, then there's plenty you can do to compensate; For example I'd much rather have Hopkins' or Marquez's skills, than Randall Bailey's punching power. And of course you can maximise what you have by working on your technique, timing, and accuracy. But unfortunately nothing you can do will make you punch like this, where you can be losing the fight and then practically the only two power punches you land result in knockdowns, if you are not born with the ability to do so (absolutely beautiful uppercut under the jab by the way!):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_5_c8UGlkM

And on a more positive note, here's a good video of Hearns showing Bradley how to really sit down on the straight right:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1GtrWw09eE

Post: #138

This is another good video on Hearns' technique and looks a little at how he generated some of his power. He makes most of the important points on Hearns' technique (moving his body over to the left side to fully transfer weight and get out of the way of counters, letting the right leg be free to allow the hip to come forward (this is somewhat related to what we saw with Golovkin's shifting which allows the hips full rotation too), and pulling the left hand forcefully back to the hip to help generate additional power. I'd also add that the slightly downward arc of the punch towards the end also increases power, which you can see clearly in the video where he is helping Bradley that I posted above.

Being similar to Hearns in build (tall for my weight, with skinny legs), I modelled my straight right on Hearns' for the occasions that I really want to sit down on it. Pad men tell me that they feel the difference between that and my regular straight right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgXA6wFbzDA

You can also see somewhat similar mechanics with Donaire, another skinny but devastating puncher, in this video where you can clearly see the excessive weight shift towards the left, and the downward arc to the punch (watch from 1.40):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikm_IB6EWLA

Post: #139

(09-13-2014 05:43 AM)Kieran Wrote:  It's a really interesting topic for me. I personally believe that true KO power (within the weight class of course, because obviously a big heavy guy will hit hard relative to a light guy), is pretty much all genetic. There are fighters that have to try to hit hard, sit down on their punches, wear their opponent down, and land a perfectly placed shot that the opponent doesn't see coming in order to get a knockout, and then on the other hand you have fighters like Randall Bailey, Naseem Hamed, or Thomas Hearns who can be off balance, moving backwards, and score knockdowns out of nowhere with both their left and right.

It doesn't seem to have much relationship to build either, although I think there's a tendency for good hookers to be muscular and squat (e.g. Tyson), and for good straight punchers to be skinnier and longer limbed (e.g. Thomas Hearns).

My guess is that it's down to some rare combination of high fast twitch muscle fibre composition and the ability to recruit them, bone density, and co-ordination. Of course technique is a factor, but there are too many guys with great technique that can't crack an egg (e.g. Malignaggi), meanwhile I've also seen skinny kids come into the gym and hit like a truck on their first day.

I'd say it's comparable to running 100m, jumping high, or hitting home runs in baseball. I had friends who at 14-15, skinny, and around 5'8 could run sub 11 second hundreds and dunk a basketball without ever having trained for either thing. While others will never dunk a basketball or break 11.5 no matter how hard they train.

The good news is that if you don't have natural KO power, then there's plenty you can do to compensate; For example I'd much rather have Hopkins' or Marquez's skills, than Randall Bailey's punching power. And of course you can maximise what you have by working on your technique, timing, and accuracy. But unfortunately nothing you can do will make you punch like this, where you can be losing the fight and then practically the only two power punches you land result in knockdowns, if you are not born with the ability to do so (absolutely beautiful uppercut under the jab by the way!):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_5_c8UGlkM

And on a more positive note, here's a good video of Hearns showing Bradley how to really sit down on the straight right:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1GtrWw09eE

I think that it's wrong to assume that all tall, skinny guys have weak legs. Part of that type of build is your legs are so long they have a lot of room to spread the muscle around. Look at a lot of basketball players or NFL wide receivers and you'll see guys who look like they have skinny legs. While they may not squat quite as much as a shorter, stockier running back of similar weight they still have elite levels of explosiveness and power in their lower body. I bet Tommy Hearns had plenty of explosive power in his lower body too.


That Randall Bailey knock out and Manny Steward's comment makes me want to go down to the gym right now and work on slipping the jab and throwing the uppercut underneath it, that's a beauty of a shot.

I'm also on the tall side for my weight, and since my first week in the gym have been told I have a lot of power on the straight right but have to work hard to get pop into my left hook. Kieran, do you do anything in particular to try to get your right hand into play without being predictable?

Post: #140

Yeah beautiful uppercut from Randall Bailey. Zab Judah had a beautiful rear hand counter uppercut as well, probably the best I've ever seen (also an incredibly talented fighter, could have gone so much further in the sport if he had the discipline):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn-s9B5ryCE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLNXjHdWBpw

Regarding getting the right hand to land, I'm by no means an expert, but one of the ways that I get it to land most is as a counter to the jab (or even the right hand), where I slip the jab and come back with the straight right. It's a similar counter to the Randall Bailey uppercut, except you don't slip as far as you would when throwing the uppercut. Being tall and rangey for my weight, and preferring to keep my weight on my back foot with my head tilted off towards my rear foot a lot of the time, opponents tend to get frustrated and lunge a little too much with the jab, and then I only need a very slight slip to avoid it, and I can come back quickly with the straight right. James Toney is a pretty good example of this counter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xo0579_8cI

I also land it a lot by timing the opponent's punches, and then throwing it over the top while moving my weight over to the left as soon as I see him start to throw it. To make this work you want to be always looking for tells that they are about to throw something, and constantly be feinting to draw them to step in etc (there's a lot of subtle weight shifting, feints, and slight changes in footwork that go into setting up a counter like this). A pretty good example of this would be Marquez landing the right hand counter at 1.15, which he had been looking for all night : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7pwZ4njcw0

The other way that I get it to land is to throw the lead right hand off rhythm. This is something I've worked on a lot in training, and that now lands for me a lot. It's a decent hard shot, but not even close to a full power shot as you don't get set because you can't afford to telegraph it at all. Hopkins and Mayweather do a better job of explaining it in these videos than I can (Mayweather at 2.10: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqOJp9Wmayo ; and Hopkins here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-urM2RZLM4 ). You can watch any Hopkins fight and see countless examples of it in action, following it with the headbutt is optional

When going on the attack, one of the most effective things for me is to leave the jab out there a little and paw with it. This obstructs the opponent's vision and hides the right hand, and then you draw it back real quick and come back with the right hand. Randall Bailey did this a lot (see this video for several examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7D_3abkm4M ). It doesn't have to be a real pawing jab that you leave out there either, you can just throw a bit of a lazy jab that you don't draw back quickly, and kind of brush their face with it, and then follow with the right hand as seen in the first Mike Jones knockdown, very effective: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_5_c8UGlkM

Another way which is simple but can be effective is to jab or feint high and throw the right hand to the body, or jab or feint to the body and throw the right hand up top. You want to watch how your opponent responds to your single and double jabs and feints throughout the sparring / fight and then you can set up the bigger shot. An obvious example of this is when Mosley hurt Mayweather with the right hand after jabbing to the body: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoPUpGi2eO8

Another thing I like to do is to mix up the rhythm of my punches. A simple example would be rather than throw the 1-2 with a typical rhythm as the opponent is expecting, I'd throw the 1, wait a beat, and then throw the 2. Or feint the jab and follow quickly with the 2, so that it comes half a beat earlier than expected due to the feint. Mayweather does this type of thing well. It's also similar in principle to what Rigondeaux does with his slow short air punch combinations, where he kind of lulls the opponent into a false rhythm, and then boom, snaps out the right hand / left hook, and also somewhat similar to pawing with the jab in that all are plays on rhythm.

I hope that helps.

Post: #141

Alright, time for another question. This time about mouthguards. I am getting ready to do some sparring, mainly with a guy I met at the gym, we plan on going slow. But still I want to be responsible about protecting myself, I am not a spring chicken any more.

Seems like Gladiator makes some excellent mouthguards and it is a process to make sure everything fits well. Pretty pricey at 80 bucks. But seems pretty solid. I have looked at some other mouth guards and read reviews. But would like to get some opinions from RVF. I'd appreciate any alternative suggestions.

If you wouldn't mind sharing your thoughts on mouthguards or make a suggestion I would appreciate it. Though $80, seems like a lot, if it could save me some major damage, it is worth it. This guy took the time to make a detailed post about his Gladiator mouthguard experience, in case you were interested.

http://kravmagafederation.com/forum/view...c3197de0db

Thanks.

Post: #142

^ Gladiator guards. No brainer. It protects your jaw, your teeth, and helps you breath better because you don't lose oxygen through your teeth. More aerodynamic. Fits snugly. Dont' leave home without it.

Post: #143

Anyone know of a good boxing gym in the NYC area? I'm moving there in February and have an interest in starting boxing. I'm a total novice, but have tons of lower body strength so I think I could be good at it.

Post: #144

^gleasons or trinity

Post: #145

(09-16-2014 06:14 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  Alright, time for another question. This time about mouthguards. I am getting ready to do some sparring, mainly with a guy I met at the gym, we plan on going slow. But still I want to be responsible about protecting myself, I am not a spring chicken any more.

Seems like Gladiator makes some excellent mouthguards and it is a process to make sure everything fits well. Pretty pricey at 80 bucks. But seems pretty solid. I have looked at some other mouth guards and read reviews. But would like to get some opinions from RVF. I'd appreciate any alternative suggestions.

If you wouldn't mind sharing your thoughts on mouthguards or make a suggestion I would appreciate it. Though $80, seems like a lot, if it could save me some major damage, it is worth it. This guy took the time to make a detailed post about his Gladiator mouthguard experience, in case you were interested.

http://kravmagafederation.com/forum/view...c3197de0db

Thanks.

I got a mouthguard made by a dentist that cost 2 or 3 hundred dollars over 10 years ago, but it still fits beautifully and doesn't impede my breathing or speech at all. Yes, it's a lot of money but it's a fraction of the cost of what happened when I forgot to put it back in between rounds that one time.

$80 is a lot to pay for what is essentially a glorified 'boil and bite' mouthguard.

Post: #146

(09-16-2014 11:30 PM)Vroom Wrote:  I got a mouthguard made by a dentist that cost 2 or 3 hundred dollars over 10 years ago, but it still fits beautifully and doesn't impede my breathing or speech at all. Yes, it's a lot of money but it's a fraction of the cost of what happened when I forgot to put it back in between rounds that one time.

$80 is a lot to pay for what is essentially a glorified 'boil and bite' mouthguard.

Please stop spreading misinformation. A Gladiator Guard is not boil and bite or even close.

They sent you a kit - the same kit a dentist would use along with a return shipping box/label.

You make a mold of your upper teeth with some plastic thing and putty.

It sets and gets firm.

You send it back.

They send you back a mouth guard.

I still have mine.

Post: #147

From the review on that other site:

Quote:My only complaint at this time is that the front tooth of the mold chipped off in the mail

I wouldn't pay $80 for a damaged mouthguard, especially not one that was moulded by a novice fumbling around on his own face. You get what you pay for.

Post: #148

^^ They fixed it for him.

Quote:Thank you for taking the time to inspect and get back to.
On occasion the model can be damaged in shipping.
Although we are very good at repair when we have the opportunity to
pour a new model we prefer to do so.

Post: #149

(09-17-2014 12:32 AM)Vroom Wrote:  From the review on that other site:

Quote:My only complaint at this time is that the front tooth of the mold chipped off in the mail

I wouldn't pay $80 for a damaged mouthguard, especially not one that was moulded by a novice fumbling around on his own face. You get what you pay for.

You have a Gladiator Guard?

Are you a dentist or something? Pretty funny to hate on a mouth guard if you haven't tried one. Go to any pro gym and it's what guys use.

What magic knowledge do you have that no one else has?

I just put mine in, first time in 3 or so years. Fits like a glove.

Post: #150

Whoa! Settle petal, I didn't realise you came from a long line of mail order mouthguard merchants, and that I'd offended the craft.

I've got just about as much knowledge of gladiator guards as you have of professionally fitted ones - obviously you've never used one or you wouldn't be hunting around for cheap options on the internet, so it seems we're at a bit of an impasse. Surely you can appreciate that something made with professional materials by a professional is going to be better than something made by a novice with unknown quality materials, that is then subject to damage and delay in the mail. Is it that much better to justify spending the extra money? Well, that depends on your needs and situation. I'd say they're probably 100x better than a boil and bite, and are more than enough for amateur and weekend warrior types, but if you want or need the best, there is no substitute for a professionally made one.

I get the point, they fill a niche in the market, but there's no need to blow smoke up my arse with claims about "all the guys at all pro gyms" use them. I mentioned I got mine made over 10 years ago - that should give you some clue I'm not some new blow in who's going to be overawed by talk.