Post: #176

I really, really want to try some Test. I'm 32 and I feel now is the right time to give it a shot.

The problem is it's basically impossible to get legally here in the UK.

A conundrum.

Post: #177

testosterone is legal to posses in the UK as long as it's for personal use (just don't buy 1000 ampoules at once)

As far as ball shrinkage is concerned, I have none. Actually my balls are bigger and fuller now then before I started trt. I take 75 - 100 mg of test per week.

500mg of tribestan, 200mg of humanofort and 4 raw eggs per day keep my balls nice and full.

Post: #178

(08-28-2014 01:28 PM)007 Wrote:  testosterone is legal to posses in the UK as long as it's for personal use (just don't buy 1000 ampoules at once)

As far as ball shrinkage is concerned, I have none. Actually my balls are bigger and fuller now then before I started trt. I take 75 - 100 mg of test per week.

500mg of tribestan, 200mg of humanofort and 4 raw eggs per day keep my balls nice and full.

Where do you get it from though?

Post: #179

Side effects from exogenous testosterone injections can be managed with ancillary compounds. I have been on heavy steroid cycles on and of since 2003. For guys with male pattern baldness like myself who are using testosterone, you'll probably want to get a DHT blocker. Testosterone converts to di-hydro-testosterone which is largely responsible for MP baldness. Finasteride (propecia), and Dutasteride (avadart) are effective dht blockers. You can also get saw palmetto extract over the counter to help block dht. Also, some shampoos help attack MPB like Nizarol. Generally when I'm 'on' I use a combination of things that include dht blockers, shampoos, and cold laser treatments. But alas, I had to get hair transplant surgery anyway because of my genetics. You can't beat genetics but you sure can give ' em a run for their money. For the rest of you, you CAN beat side effects of testosterone supplementation.

Post: #180

Crashbangwallop - There are vetted internet sites that sell testosterone made by many different (including and especially) underground laboratories. I don't think it would be appropriate for me to list some here but you can find them with some research. Good luck.

Post: #181

(08-27-2014 03:25 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  ^ I don't have to Google TRT. I was on it for 18 months.

My hair looks great. (My pics are all over the Internet.)

Many men don't realize that we lose 50-100 hairs a day. Men only notice hair loss when on TRT because they've been trained to notice it. But the hair loss was happening long before TRT.

Anyhow, hair loss is an individual side effect.

My hair is actually thicker when on TRT. I'd actually be shocked if you have a better head of hair as I do. I'm 37 and don't see many men my age with hair like mine....TRT and all.

Ball shrinkage was 25% tops.

This is a serious thread for men who actually understand TRT to discuss our findings and our experiences.

We can read idiots post Buzzfeed and mainstream media articles all over the Internet. There's no need for you in this thread.

Lucky you, you don't have male pattern baldness. Some people don't, but it is very common.

So what you had only 25%, reaper23 just mentioned he's going to have to take HCG to reinflate.

Not at all concerned with what or who you think this thread needs.

If people didn't think what I mentioned was relevant they would have ignored it. The fact that no one responded to my description of HPGA downregulation or scalp androgenisity with a rebuttal or even a mere challenge as to the accuracy of the biology, but were eager to respond with 'thats ignorant' or 'thats stupidity from buzzfeed', speaks volumes. I'd argue that intellectual discussion has a place in any thread, and knuckleheaded 'we don't like these ideas' exclusionism has no place anywhere. If you don't know what a hypothalamus or pituitary gland is, I'm happy to educate you.

Any thread about testosterone injection has room for discussion of the side effects, especially when people are recommending it to current non-users.

I'll repeat, if anyone discovers a drug which will upregulate the HPGA, and one that will protect the scalp from androgens, I'll take them immediately.

Post: #182

Crashbangwollop, it's not appropriate to say, and asking about sources is asking for trouble. Like the other poster advised, start with google.

(08-28-2014 01:31 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(08-28-2014 01:28 PM)007 Wrote:  testosterone is legal to posses in the UK as long as it's for personal use (just don't buy 1000 ampoules at once)

As far as ball shrinkage is concerned, I have none. Actually my balls are bigger and fuller now then before I started trt. I take 75 - 100 mg of test per week.

500mg of tribestan, 200mg of humanofort and 4 raw eggs per day keep my balls nice and full.

Where do you get it from though?

Post: #183

(08-29-2014 06:46 AM)007 Wrote:  Crashbangwollop, it's not appropriate to say, and asking about sources is asking for trouble. Like the other poster advised, start with google.

(08-28-2014 01:31 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(08-28-2014 01:28 PM)007 Wrote:  testosterone is legal to posses in the UK as long as it's for personal use (just don't buy 1000 ampoules at once)

As far as ball shrinkage is concerned, I have none. Actually my balls are bigger and fuller now then before I started trt. I take 75 - 100 mg of test per week.

500mg of tribestan, 200mg of humanofort and 4 raw eggs per day keep my balls nice and full.

Where do you get it from though?

Ok. Any chance of a PM with some hints?

Post: #184

I'd rather shave my head, have slightly smaller balls, and high Testosterone then have long luscious hair, slightly bigger balls and low T.
I'm 99.6% sure that anyone who has taken the leap to get on TRT would agree.

Enjoy your snazzy hair and large balls Phoenix, I'm sure the girls just swoon over them.

(I haven't noticed my balls or loads being any smaller, I'm not on a huge dose of TRT so maybe thats why)

Post: #185

Phoenix, let's see that hair line of yours. It must be something special.

Post: #186

Yeah truth be told this is how I pick up.
I walk up to the chick, grab her hands, then put one on my massive sack and one in my fluffy hair.
Gets them so wet so quickly that they immediately drag me to a taxi. Game is for dudes with lesser sacks.

Post: #187

^ So you're a troll without anything to add other than news reports and stuff you've read on Google. You must be a hit at parties and a real winner at life.

Post: #188

Is this how you maneuver your 'debates' MikeCF?
I provide a clear explanation of the risks of TRT and why they exist, and you side step them and use exclusion-talk.
I then call you out on doing this, and your failure to rebut, and you side step again and make a personal statement which accepts one of my positions.
I then humor this and the other guys joke with my own joke, you side step again and call Troll.

You call troll, I call weasel. Your game playing cannot make the facts go away, you should accept the correct position that 'TRT has clear plusses AND minuses' if this is to be a legit self-improvement thread rather than a bizzare 'TRT can do no wrong' thread.

Anyway I've stated the risks, so non true believers reading this thread will do their own research.
Leaving thread.

Post: #189

Here is a link to what a Harvard expert has to say about TRT:
Link

Post: #190

If you need some T and your levels are below-normal then go for it.

However, you can usually achieve what you need through rigorous exercise and lifting if your T levels are normal.

Post: #191

(09-07-2014 11:45 AM)Cr33pin Wrote:  Here is a link to what a Harvard expert has to say about TRT:
Link

Good find Cr33pin. Figured I'd highlight the main prostate-cancer portion on here for the record, emphasis mine

Quote:What about the risk of developing prostate cancer?

I think that the biggest hurdle for most physicians prescribing testosterone is the fear that they’re going to promote prostate cancer. [See "Incongruous findings," below.] That’s because more than six decades ago, it was shown that if you lowered testosterone in men whose prostate cancer had metastasized, their condition improved. (It became a standard therapy that we still use today for men with advanced prostate cancer. We call it androgen deprivation or androgen-suppressive therapy.) The thinking became that if lowering testosterone makes prostate cancer disappear, at least for a while, then raising it must make prostate cancer grow. But even though it’s been a widely held belief for six decades, no one has found any additional evidence to support the theory.

Haven’t there been any studies that follow men who go on testosterone-replacement therapy to see what their rate of cancer is compared with that in men who are not on it?

As with a number of treatments or medicines that have been around for a long, long time, it hasn’t been scrutinized like a new drug would be. And although they’ve been discussed, there aren’t any large-scale, randomized controlled clinical trials of testosterone-replacement therapy under way. [See “A male equivalent to the Women’s Health Initiative?” below.]

There have been a number of smaller studies on men receiving testosterone-replacement therapy, and if you look at the results cumulatively, the rate of prostate cancer in these men was about 1% per year. If you look at men who show up for prostate cancer screening, same sort of age population, the rate tends to be about the same. You have to be cautious in comparing studies and combining the results, but there’s no signal in these results that testosterone-replacement therapy creates an unexpectedly high rate of prostate cancer.

We also have epidemiologic studies, like the Physicians’ Health Study, the Baltimore Longitudinal Study of Aging, and the Massachusetts Male Aging Study, that include tens of thousands of men who are followed for 5, 10, 15, or even 20 years. At the end of the study period, the researchers see who developed prostate cancer and who didn’t. They can then look at blood samples taken at the start of the study to see if, for example, the group that got prostate cancer had a higher level of testosterone over all. About 500,000 men have been entered in some 20 trials of this type around the world. Not one of those studies has shown a definitive correlation between prostate cancer and total testosterone. Three or four have shown weak associations, but none of those have been confirmed in subsequent studies.

Another point I’d like to make for people worried about a link between high testosterone and prostate cancer is that it just doesn’t make sense. Prostate cancer becomes more prevalent in men as they age, and that’s also when their testosterone levels decline. We almost never see it in men in their peak testosterone years, in their 20s for instance. We know from autopsy studies that 8% of men in their 20s already have tiny prostate cancers, so if testosterone really made prostate cancer grow so rapidly — we used to talk about it like it was pouring gasoline on a fire — we should see some appreciable rate of prostate cancer in men in their 20s. We don’t. So, I’m no longer worried that giving testosterone to men will make their hidden cancer grow, because I’m convinced that it doesn’t happen.

Post: #192

I have done some overall health check from time to time and my T-levels have always been quite high. They were 833 when I was 22 and now month ago when im 27 it was 850 something. But I have always taken magnesium, zinc, vitamin D, fish oil. Always 8 hour sleep, not drinking too much and I quit smoking few years ago. I maybe have natural high levels but all those thing sure will help it. I hope to maintain healthy levels as I get older too.

Post: #193

(08-30-2014 03:21 AM)Phoenix Wrote:  Is this how you maneuver your 'debates' MikeCF?

I don't debate. I live life rather than repeat what others tell me.

Look at these luxurious locks. I even got some boyish curls going on.

http://www.dangerandplay.com/2014/09/08/...xperiment/

Post: #194

I don't even know why you waste so much energy trying to educate the ignorant.

Just let them age and rot. Who cares?

Post: #195

I'm a 24 year old dude who's consistently had total test levels in the mid-200s as long as I've been aware of testosterone, even though I eat healthy and exercise. I also have issues with tiredness and lack of motivation. Could the low testosterone be tied to mental state? And is it worth it at this point to start testosterone (my doctor's recommended it)?

Post: #196

(09-14-2014 07:52 AM)Lion of Judah Wrote:  I'm a 24 year old dude who's consistently had total test levels in the mid-200s as long as I've been aware of testosterone, even though I eat healthy and exercise. I also have issues with tiredness and lack of motivation. Could the low testosterone be tied to mental state? And is it worth it at this point to start testosterone (my doctor's recommended it)?

Those things can certainly be signs of lower testosterone. You should do some research and weigh out your options and see if TRT is something you want to pursue. I would think at 24 years old you should try to do everything possible to raise your levels naturally... some guys can, some guys can not. Ultimately its up to you to decide. I suggest researching TRT as much as possible and then deciding if you want to start TRT at this point in your life.

Post: #197

(09-14-2014 07:52 AM)Lion of Judah Wrote:  I'm a 24 year old dude who's consistently had total test levels in the mid-200s as long as I've been aware of testosterone, even though I eat healthy and exercise. I also have issues with tiredness and lack of motivation. Could the low testosterone be tied to mental state? And is it worth it at this point to start testosterone (my doctor's recommended it)?

Mid 200s? I'm almost twice your age and I just tested at 441 ng/dL. Yes, those symptoms are consistent with test problems, but I'd make sure

* you're getting adequate sleep.
* quit drinking for a while
* Quit looking at porn and jacking off for a couple weeks
* What exercises are you doing? Endurance sports supposedly drop your test levels.
* Have you been using ED meds? Drop the ED stuff if you use it.
* Get your thyroid levels checked. Thyroid issues will show up as fatigue.

In general, get yourself into a doctor's office with your specific complaints and get them to do their thing. At age 24 you should not need any chemical assistance, and if you do, something else is wrong. I remember what being 24 was like, and I am powerfully tempted to pay a lot of money to get that back.

I just last week tested at 441 (62.7 pg/ml free) and that qualifies me for TRT, and I definitely would love to do it. The problem I have is that through the anti-aging clinic, it's going to run me $150/month to get on their program. Insurance is out of network, which means that I'd have to meet my $750 deductible (about 2 months of TRT out of pocket), and then they only cover 70%, which means I'm still out of pocket about $120/month. So that's around $2k/year after I pay for the labs (which are extra on top of the base price. FYI, labs are at 1,2,3,6,9 and 12 months, then after that they're every 6 months, so after the first year, there's 2 labs a year at around $50 / each.

If I pay cash, it's $150/month + labs, so it comes out to $1800/year + labs - it's actually cheaper for me to pay cash. They know this. Insurance companies are a pain in the ass, they take forever to pay, and someone in the office has to hassle with them, so they'd much rather you pay cash.

So once again, MikeCF has the best advice: be your own doctor. I've been talking to my doc and he's OK in principle with giving me injections, but he wouldn't do it weekly, though he might agree to write the scrip and let me manage it. The other thing is that I don't know if he'd do the HCG that the anti-aging place does. The idea with HCG is that the testosterone will cause your pituitary to shut down production because it thinks your nuts have turned into Gonad the Barbarian and need a smackdown. So the HCG will keep your pituitary from shutting down natural production and then the testosterone injections are building on top of what your body's doing. Plus I'd have to learn how to do the injections (millions of diabetics manage this so I think I can do that), and manage my own blood work. Unfortunately it's not like diabetes where you can buy a little battery powered tester. Possibly my doc would agree to write the order for me to go to Labcorp and get it done thru insurance.

So that's where I'm at. I'm still considering what to do here. Probably should at least have the convo with my doc to see if he'll even write me the scrip and agree to me self-managing the plan.

Post: #198

(09-15-2014 11:17 AM)RockHard Wrote:  

(09-14-2014 07:52 AM)Lion of Judah Wrote:  I'm a 24 year old dude who's consistently had total test levels in the mid-200s as long as I've been aware of testosterone, even though I eat healthy and exercise. I also have issues with tiredness and lack of motivation. Could the low testosterone be tied to mental state? And is it worth it at this point to start testosterone (my doctor's recommended it)?

Mid 200s? I'm almost twice your age and I just tested at 441 ng/dL. Yes, those symptoms are consistent with test problems, but I'd make sure

* you're getting adequate sleep.
* quit drinking for a while
* Quit looking at porn and jacking off for a couple weeks
* What exercises are you doing? Endurance sports supposedly drop your test levels.
* Have you been using ED meds? Drop the ED stuff if you use it.
* Get your thyroid levels checked. Thyroid issues will show up as fatigue.

My sleep is fine (between 7-8 hours), although I usually feel tired in the morning, only drink a little bit, don't look at much porn, mostly just do weight machines in the gym (i need to get serious about my exercise program), don't use ED meds, my thyroid is fine. My doctor just said it is congenital, which means there isn't much I can do. At the same time, he said I could start TRT if I wanted. If I were in my 40s like you I would consider it, but starting on in it in my 20s without the right insurance and having to be dependent on it the rest of my life seems intimidating. I've had my testosterone tested several times over the past few years and its always been out of whack. I'm trying to find alternatives to TRT but there doesn't seem to be any (most of the natural supplements are bullshit, in my experience). Maybe Im just SOL.

Post: #199

(09-15-2014 05:29 PM)Lion of Judah Wrote:  

(09-15-2014 11:17 AM)RockHard Wrote:  

(09-14-2014 07:52 AM)Lion of Judah Wrote:  I'm a 24 year old dude who's consistently had total test levels in the mid-200s as long as I've been aware of testosterone, even though I eat healthy and exercise. I also have issues with tiredness and lack of motivation. Could the low testosterone be tied to mental state? And is it worth it at this point to start testosterone (my doctor's recommended it)?

Mid 200s? I'm almost twice your age and I just tested at 441 ng/dL. Yes, those symptoms are consistent with test problems, but I'd make sure

* you're getting adequate sleep.
* quit drinking for a while
* Quit looking at porn and jacking off for a couple weeks
* What exercises are you doing? Endurance sports supposedly drop your test levels.
* Have you been using ED meds? Drop the ED stuff if you use it.
* Get your thyroid levels checked. Thyroid issues will show up as fatigue.

My sleep is fine (between 7-8 hours), although I usually feel tired in the morning, only drink a little bit, don't look at much porn, mostly just do weight machines in the gym (i need to get serious about my exercise program), don't use ED meds, my thyroid is fine. My doctor just said it is congenital, which means there isn't much I can do. At the same time, he said I could start TRT if I wanted. If I were in my 40s like you I would consider it, but starting on in it in my 20s without the right insurance and having to be dependent on it the rest of my life seems intimidating. I've had my testosterone tested several times over the past few years and its always been out of whack. I'm trying to find alternatives to TRT but there doesn't seem to be any (most of the natural supplements are bullshit, in my experience). Maybe Im just SOL.

Do you have varicocele? That could be a hidden cause that some doctors aren't smart enough to properly diagnose.

Post: #200

^Hmmm...just had a physical and they didnt notice anything weird. I don't think so.