Post: #276

(05-20-2015 04:44 AM)Druber Wrote:  

(03-14-2015 04:07 PM)Rikardo Wrote:  

(09-22-2014 02:21 PM)Cr33pin Wrote:  I am having a hard time finding a place to fill my 200mg/ml 10ml testosterone prescriptions. Last time I got it filled at CVS they said they could no longer get 10ml bottles and gave me ten 1ml bottles. Now they say they can not get it at all. So I went to Kmart the only other pharmacy in my city and they can't get injectable testosterone. Is something going on that I don't know about? I tried googling it an couldn't find anything.

Also I got my blood work back today and it goes as follows
(I injected .5ml on Monday morning and drew blood for this blood work Thursday morning)

Testosterone serum: 1041
Free Testosterone: 24.5
Estradiol: 32.8
Cortisol: 21.6 (This is in the above normal range)

I got my Thyroid checked to
TSH: 1.420
t4: 7.5
t3: 33
Free Thyroxine: 2.5

This is the first time I have checked my free testosterone, estradiol, and cortisol. If anyone know much about these or has any info on if some are to high or low feel free to post.

cortisol is not good that is #1 reason for low T in my opinion everyone should fix and search for root cause for low T before injecting T.
I have also big problems with cortisol all time it's around this level and so also T is low, one time when cortisol went down for 20% immediately T went up for 20%

My serum cortisol is also way off the charts. I heard that the 24-hr adrenal (cortisol) saliva test is more accurate.

How did you lower your levels?

I haven't lowered them.... I'm not sure how to even do so.

Post: #277

You could add some phosphatidylserene to your stack to help mitigate high cortisol:

http://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/20...ol/page-02

It's a phospholipid that also has beneficial effects with regards to exercise recovery and cognition.

Only downside is it's expensive because you mostly find it bottles of 30 x 100mg or 60 x 100mg, but the doses used in most of these studies are in the 300-600mg range.

Make sure to get a brand where they make it from sunflower lecithin.

On a side note, it's interesting that so many beneficial compounds are found in such abundance in fish and organ meats:



For all the hate street food gets in Thailand, one serving of chicken hearts (which are fuckin' delicious) is like taking 4 x 100mg phosphatidylserene capsules.

Moral of the story? Eat more organ meats!

Post: #278

I tried to do a forum search, but couldn't find anything on International TRT.

It would be nice to have a datasheet on how to obtain testosterone injections while living abroad in a variety of regions (China, SEA, South America, etc).

I wouldn't want to move abroad and have my T levels take a swan dive because I couldn't obtain testosterone there. Anyone in the know?

Post: #279

(05-27-2015 07:06 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  I tried to do a forum search, but couldn't find anything on International TRT.

It would be nice to have a datasheet on how to obtain testosterone injections while living abroad in a variety of regions (China, SEA, South America, etc).

I wouldn't want to move abroad and have my T levels take a swan dive because I couldn't obtain testosterone there. Anyone in the know?

In Peru and Colombia you can just by Test over the counter with no prescription... as much as you want.

Post: #280

(05-27-2015 11:29 AM)Cr33pin Wrote:  In Peru and Colombia you can just by Test over the counter with no prescription... as much as you want.

Good to know, thanks.

Anyone else have TRT experience in SEA?

Post: #281

Update

Since the last post, I've kicked the AI and am doing 90mg Test Cyp 2x/wk (180mg/wk) and 250iu HCG 2x/wk.

Been about a month of no AI. Nipples are looking a littttle puffier and back acne has increased a lot. Tons of big juicy zits on my lower and upper back. Main girl commented, "are you taking anything for your acne?"

See the PA on Monday and will bring it up.

With total T being around 1000ng/dl I can't imagine E2 not being high as well without an AI.

Post: #282

(05-27-2015 12:41 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  With total T being around 1000ng/dl I can't imagine E2 not being high as well without an AI.

Not necessarily. Before starting TRT my total T was 450 ng/dl and my E2 29 ng/dl. Five weeks into treatment my total T came back at 1033 ng/dl with an E2 level of 26 ng/dl. And this was while using a transdermal cream, which supposedly leads to more aromatization, and simultaneously supplementing DHEA and pregnenolone.

I guess it really depends on the person. My doctor starts patients on T only and adds an AI or hcg later if needed. If you look on some dedicated message boards you'll find that quite a lot of people are running TRT without an AI or hcg.

Post: #283

TRT is so tempting. Just overly concerned about being able to pop out kids at some point. Anyone deal with this?

Other than banking sperm?

Post: #284

(05-27-2015 02:26 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  TRT is so tempting. Just overly concerned about being able to pop out kids at some point. Anyone deal with this?

Other than banking sperm?

You can get on HCG to maintain fertility (up to 1000 IU/weekly in divided doses, administered subq).

Post: #285

(05-27-2015 02:26 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  TRT is so tempting. Just overly concerned about being able to pop out kids at some point. Anyone deal with this?

Other than banking sperm?

I cryo-banked sperm before starting testosterone. Think it runs me like $100/year, and I have enough sperm banked for 12 (theoretical) kids.

(05-27-2015 01:18 PM)PhDre Wrote:  

(05-27-2015 12:41 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  With total T being around 1000ng/dl I can't imagine E2 not being high as well without an AI.

Not necessarily. Before starting TRT my total T was 450 ng/dl and my E2 29 ng/dl. Five weeks into treatment my total T came back at 1033 ng/dl with an E2 level of 26 ng/dl. And this was while using a transdermal cream, which supposedly leads to more aromatization, and simultaneously supplementing DHEA and pregnenolone.

I guess it really depends on the person. My doctor starts patients on T only and adds an AI or hcg later if needed. If you look on some dedicated message boards you'll find that quite a lot of people are running TRT without an AI or hcg.

Interesting. How do you feel with your E2 at that level?

Post: #286

(05-27-2015 02:26 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  TRT is so tempting. Just overly concerned about being able to pop out kids at some point. Anyone deal with this?

Other than banking sperm?

A significant number of men, maybe 30-40%, remain fertile even while on TRT or high bodybuilding test doses.

For the others, they do become infertile, but the infertility is temporary.

You will need to stop TRT, take clomid and/or hcg (doctor's supervision advised) and you will be fertile in 6 months or less. Exceptional cases could take a year, many take only 2 or 3 months.

Being on cycle right now has reminded me just how much I love testosterone (I'm stacking it with tren and mast, so I'm in beast mode now).

I turn 35 in a few days, and I have decided that at the end of this cycle in July, I'm transitioning right into TRT at 200/mg a week.

Post: #287

(05-27-2015 03:52 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  Interesting. How do you feel with your E2 at that level?

Just as bad as I did before. Supplementation of 30 mg of DHEA a day barely raised my DHEAs and low DHEA seems to be the cause of my problems (erectile dysfunction, shrinking testicles, diminished ejaculate volume, general fatigue, inability to recover from weight training, weak immune system). Bringing my T and E2 to perfect values didn't solve any of those problems. I have reviewed all the bloodwork I have and my DHEAs levels have been below reference range ever since I was 16 and started complaining about fatigue. Of course this was of never of any concern for my GP. I'm increasing my DHEA dosing and I will try to keep my T and E2 levels steady.

Post: #288

(05-28-2015 11:24 AM)PhDre Wrote:  

(05-27-2015 03:52 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  Interesting. How do you feel with your E2 at that level?

Just as bad as I did before. Supplementation of 30 mg of DHEA a day barely raised my DHEAs and low DHEA seems to be the cause of my problems (erectile dysfunction, shrinking testicles, diminished ejaculate volume, general fatigue, inability to recover from weight training, weak immune system). Bringing my T and E2 to perfect values didn't solve any of those problems. I have reviewed all the bloodwork I have and my DHEAs levels have been below reference range ever since I was 16 and started complaining about fatigue. Of course this was of never of any concern for my GP. I'm increasing my DHEA dosing and I will try to keep my T and E2 levels steady.

What was your SHBG? Also Albumin?

Post: #289

(05-28-2015 11:43 AM)Druber Wrote:  What was your SHBG? Also Albumin?

My inital SHBG was skyhigh at 61 nmol/l (lab reference range 20-55). Since I'm not fat, have low E2 and my liver works great this should be genetic or my body trying to conserve as much T as possible. My free T came back at 11.9 ng/dl (5-28). Albumin was not tested.

After 5 weeks on test I got blood work at a different lab. My SHBG was 1.4 microg/dl (0.5-1.5) with free T at 20.1 ng/dl (4-15). Bioavailable T (free + weakly bound to albumin) was 470 ng/dl (90-315).

Post: #290

(05-28-2015 12:27 PM)PhDre Wrote:  

(05-28-2015 11:43 AM)Druber Wrote:  What was your SHBG? Also Albumin?

My inital SHBG was skyhigh at 61 nmol/l (lab reference range 20-55). Since I'm not fat, have low E2 and my liver works great this should be genetic or my body trying to conserve as much T as possible. My free T came back at 11.9 ng/dl (5-28). Albumin was not tested.

After 5 weeks on test I got blood work at a different lab. My SHBG was 1.4 microg/dl (0.5-1.5) with free T at 20.1 ng/dl (4-15). Bioavailable T (free + weakly bound to albumin) was 470 ng/dl (90-315).

Yeah, in both test results, SHBG is elevated. The free T is likely bound up in SHBG, and maybe with albumin. Maybe Denazol will bring it down, and release more free T.

I'm also taking (2%) Tostran gel (at 6mg daily). Day two, the original ED (not sure of the cause - prob SHBG/estridiol), may have gotten better.

Maybe check the other endo sys, like the thyroid & antibodies (Hashimotos, etc). Even if in range, can still throw it out of whack.

Post: #291

So I talked to my managing PA today and we are going to come off TRT.

Took 180mg test cyp this morning at the office. Next week we'll do 140mg and that'll be my last dose of T. Following that we'll do lots of HCG to stimulate the testes and bring natural production back on line.

I'll keep logging updates in this thread since it's already here. I'm expecting some rough days up ahead but also looking forward to getting back to a healthy weight, clear skin and low body fat.

Post: #292

(06-01-2015 06:21 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  So I talked to my managing PA today and we are going to come off TRT.

Took 180mg test cyp this morning at the office. Next week we'll do 140mg and that'll be my last dose of T. Following that we'll do lots of HCG to stimulate the testes and bring natural production back on line.

I'll keep logging updates in this thread since it's already here. I'm expecting some rough days up ahead but also looking forward to getting back to a healthy weight, clear skin and low body fat.

Why wouldn't you be able to do this on TRT?

Post: #293

Many guys go down to a low maintenance dose of something like 75mg per week of test for their fertility protocol.

hcg, clomid and hmg seem to yield great results at increasing sperm count.

To be honest I take 75mg of test all year round and with my supplement regime I have kept my sperm count at around 40 million pm.

So it is possible to remain fertile whilst on trt.

(06-01-2015 10:05 PM)KeepMovingForward Wrote:  

(06-01-2015 06:21 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  So I talked to my managing PA today and we are going to come off TRT.

Took 180mg test cyp this morning at the office. Next week we'll do 140mg and that'll be my last dose of T. Following that we'll do lots of HCG to stimulate the testes and bring natural production back on line.

I'll keep logging updates in this thread since it's already here. I'm expecting some rough days up ahead but also looking forward to getting back to a healthy weight, clear skin and low body fat.

Why wouldn't you be able to do this on TRT?

Post: #294

@007 - That's interesting.

Can I ask a few Qs on on how the 75mg of test affects you since you run it continuously?

Which ester do you use?

Does it elevate your Estradiol?

In the context of a healthy lifestyle, good food, sleep, supplementation, how much does the 75mgs contribute to improving well being, libido, recovery, etc?

I ask because I've managed to get to a place where I feel pretty amazing most of the time from diet, exercise, sleep and lifestyle factors, and I'm curious if I can take it to the next level with continuous low-dose test without throwing shit out of whack or losing my swimmies.

Post: #295

(06-02-2015 10:46 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  I ask because I've managed to get to a place where I feel pretty amazing most of the time from diet, exercise, sleep and lifestyle factors, and I'm curious if I can take it to the next level with continuous low-dose test without throwing shit out of whack or losing my swimmies.

My HRT doctor, who is considered to be one of the absolute references in the field, states that the production of your endocrine glands diminishes by about 30-35% when you add in physiological doses of exogeneous hormones. Moreover he is convinced that the gland will go back to its previous output once you discontinue the hormone administration. It is only when you take supraphysiological doses that you completely suppress your own production and risk irreversible shutdown.

The male body produces around 7-10 mg of test a day. You could try to apply 30-50 mg of test a day to your body using a cream (approximately 10% will be absorbed). If you apply it to regions with very low bodyfat and good absorption (forehead, traps, shoulders) aromatization should not be a problem.

Test your levels before you start (test, free test, DHT, estradiol, LH, FSH, SHBG). Test them again after 3 weeks of treatment. With the use of a cream your test levels should be elevated and stable after 3 days. LH/FSH will only start to decline after two to three weeks of treatment. Accept only a decline of 30-35% in LH and FSH. If its more, lower your TRT dose (provided that your initial test levels were ok, if they were not you can say fuck it and go all out with test and hcg but this is for life and since you feel great at this moment I do not recommend it at all).

This is why many people who go on moderate dose TRT feel great the first weeks but start feeling like shit after a couple of weeks: their own production has dropped to zero yet the TRT dose isn't high enough to push their test levels high.

Test again a couple of weeks later to find out how your estradiol reacts, its levels rise and drop a lot slower than test. Also test for lipid profile. Don't accept a big drop in HDL or a large rise in LDL. And test your red blood cell count, this can get too high when on test.

While dialing in your protocol, try to have bloodwork done every month or so. Once you are happy, stick to it and have a comprehensive blood panel done every 6 months or so.

Post: #296

Hey Vince, no worries man.

This is my protocol.

* 3 x 25mg subq test shots per week, M/W/F.
This is very important as it more naturally mimics the bodies natural pulses of testosterone, keeps the blood levels stable / eliminates spikes and minimizes the conversion to estro.
* I take the enanthate ester myself, but cypionate is ok too.
* This puts my test level at around 950 with a estradiol level of 30, without using any anti-e's (make sure your e levels don't go above 50). This is the sweet spot for me as when my bump my testosterone up to 1100, my estradiol also shoots up to 100) and I do not want to use anti-e's.

My blood work comes back perfect.

Here is my trt supplement stack (which also makes up a large part of my all round anti aging, disease prevention and performance enhancement stack)

*4-6 raw whole eggs per day. The cholesterol provides the building blocks for testosterone and the lecithin from the eggs produce thick and ropy cumshots.
* Humanofort 200 - 400mg per day - does too many things to list, but keeps your hpga axis working in a healthy state. This is one supplement that I can hand on heart say has been a game changer. Amazing shit.
* Tribestan (Bulgarian tribulus) - 2000mg, has a positive effect on lh and sperm count.
*Royal Jelly - 1000mg, has a protective effect on the testicles and a host of other health benefits.
* DIM - 200mg, Pygeum bark - 1000mg for prostate health.
*ZMA - great for deep / healthy sleep.
*High strength fish oil and aged garlic - to help maintain a healthy cholesterol profile and blood lucidity.

This stack has my balls as full an heavy as hell, thick / giant cumshots and a high sperm count.

As far as the lifestyle effects go, it basically helps to make you into the best version of you. I truly feel that trt is the physical counterpart to the psychological 'inner game' side of things.

I do bjj, wrestling and weights 5 days a week. trt turns you into a well functioning machine into an amazingly functioning machine.

Basically, trt is an important part of the puzzle (for me personally) for peak living.

Also, I can't prove it but I believe the trt is doing great things for my pheromones. After shagging, chicks just randomly say shit like 'You smell so manly, I'm addicted to your smell' hahah.

I hope that helps.

[/i]

(06-02-2015 10:46 PM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  @007 - That's interesting.

Can I ask a few Qs on on how the 75mg of test affects you since you run it continuously?

Which ester do you use?

Does it elevate your Estradiol?

In the context of a healthy lifestyle, good food, sleep, supplementation, how much does the 75mgs contribute to improving well being, libido, recovery, etc?

I ask because I've managed to get to a place where I feel pretty amazing most of the time from diet, exercise, sleep and lifestyle factors, and I'm curious if I can take it to the next level with continuous low-dose test without throwing shit out of whack or losing my swimmies.

Post: #297

^^^

Hey 007, interesting protocol, I think some of the supplements you think help you are of dubious utility although that's a personal opinion and people should take what they feel like, however there is one part that is scientifically suboptimal.

The protein is much less bioavailable if you eat eggs raw versus cooked.

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/128/10/1716.full

Quote:Egg proteins contribute substantially to the daily nitrogen allowances in Western countries and are generally considered to be highly digestible. However, information is lacking on the true ileal digestibility of either raw or cooked egg protein. The recent availability of stable isotope–labeled egg protein allowed determination of the true ileal digestibility of egg protein by means of noninvasive tracer techniques. Five ileostomy patients were studied, once after ingestion of a test meal consisting of 25 g of cooked 13C- and 15N-labeled egg protein, and once after ingestion of the same test meal in raw form. Ileal effluents and breath samples were collected at regular intervals after consumption of the test meal and analyzed for 15N- and 13C-content, respectively. The true ileal digestibility of cooked and raw egg protein amounted to 90.9 ± 0.8 and 51.3 ± 9.8%, respectively. A significant negative correlation (r = −0.92, P < 0.001) was found between the 13C-recovery in breath and the recovery of exogenous N in the ileal effluents. In summary, using the 15N-dilution technique we demonstrated that the assimilation of cooked egg protein is efficient, albeit incomplete, and that the true ileal digestibility of egg protein is significantly enhanced by heat-pretreatment. A simple 13C-breath test technique furthermore proved to be a suitable alternative for the evaluation of the true ileal digestibility of egg protein.

Post: #298

Well, each supplement I take provides me with a very distinct and discernible effect. By blood work also supports the efficacy of the stack, along with anecdotal indicators like full balls.

Many fella's on trt suffer from shrunken balls . fertility and will resort to things like hcg, which causes spikes in the blood and the need for anti-e's.

I recommend that guys on trt or those thinking of going the trt route give the supplement routine I outlined above a serious go. It's not your normal hcg/clomid protocol, but I think you'll like the effects.

To be honest I mainly eat raw eggs for the cholesterol rather than the protein. I haven't done any research into the rates of absorption, but raw eggs work for me and many others.

(06-03-2015 03:15 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  ^^^

Hey 007, interesting protocol, I think some of the supplements you think help you are of dubious utility although that's a personal opinion and people should take what they feel like, however there is one part that is scientifically suboptimal.

The protein is much less bioavailable if you eat eggs raw versus cooked.

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/128/10/1716.full

Quote:Egg proteins contribute substantially to the daily nitrogen allowances in Western countries and are generally considered to be highly digestible. However, information is lacking on the true ileal digestibility of either raw or cooked egg protein. The recent availability of stable isotope–labeled egg protein allowed determination of the true ileal digestibility of egg protein by means of noninvasive tracer techniques. Five ileostomy patients were studied, once after ingestion of a test meal consisting of 25 g of cooked 13C- and 15N-labeled egg protein, and once after ingestion of the same test meal in raw form. Ileal effluents and breath samples were collected at regular intervals after consumption of the test meal and analyzed for 15N- and 13C-content, respectively. The true ileal digestibility of cooked and raw egg protein amounted to 90.9 ± 0.8 and 51.3 ± 9.8%, respectively. A significant negative correlation (r = −0.92, P < 0.001) was found between the 13C-recovery in breath and the recovery of exogenous N in the ileal effluents. In summary, using the 15N-dilution technique we demonstrated that the assimilation of cooked egg protein is efficient, albeit incomplete, and that the true ileal digestibility of egg protein is significantly enhanced by heat-pretreatment. A simple 13C-breath test technique furthermore proved to be a suitable alternative for the evaluation of the true ileal digestibility of egg protein.

Post: #299

(06-03-2015 03:33 PM)007 Wrote:  Well, each supplement I take provides me with very distinct and discernible effect. By blood work also supports the efficacy of the stack, along with anecdotal indicators like full balls.

To be honest I mainly eat raw eggs for the cholesterol rather than the protein. I haven't done any research into the rates of absorption, but raw eggs work for me and many others.

To each his own.

The optimal way to eat eggs if one wants to keep calories count low and protein high, is probably hard boiled or poached. No salt.

My personal favorite way to have my eggs, which is the cornerstone of my post workout morning routine, is to take 6-8 eggs and mix them up good in a bowl, heat a frying pan up to medium and add a liberal amount of olive oil, add the eggs to the frying pan, add a bunch of fresh pepper flakes (I used to use hot sauce but read the ingredients and realized they add all sorts of salt and crap), and then stir while it's cooking, and take extra care not to overcook, and cook just past the point where it's solidified.

It's a delicate balancing act - if you don't cook enough, the protein is not as digestible, if you cook too much, you destroy a lot of the vitamins that make eggs such a super food.

Post: #300

I'm really talking about eggs in their relation to trt, testicles and test production.

Try this experiment, eat 4 raw whole eggs per day for a week and report back with the changes in your ball size, cumshot quality/quantity and increased libido.

You will not experience these effects with cooked eggs.

(06-03-2015 03:41 PM)VolandoVengoVolandoVoy Wrote:  

(06-03-2015 03:33 PM)007 Wrote:  Well, each supplement I take provides me with very distinct and discernible effect. By blood work also supports the efficacy of the stack, along with anecdotal indicators like full balls.

To be honest I mainly eat raw eggs for the cholesterol rather than the protein. I haven't done any research into the rates of absorption, but raw eggs work for me and many others.

To each his own.

The optimal way to eat eggs if one wants to keep calories count low and protein high, is probably hard boiled or poached. No salt.

My personal favorite way to have my eggs, which is the cornerstone of my post workout morning routine, is to take 6-8 eggs and mix them up good in a bowl, heat a frying pan up to medium and add a liberal amount of olive oil, add the eggs to the frying pan, add a bunch of fresh pepper flakes (I used to use hot sauce but read the ingredients and realized they add all sorts of salt and crap), and then stir while it's cooking, and take extra care not to overcook, and cook just past the point where it's solidified.

It's a delicate balancing act - if you don't cook enough, the protein is not as digestible, if you cook too much, you destroy a lot of the vitamins that make eggs such a super food.