Post: #1

This past year, I have done a lot of reading and thinking. I would like to think that I have engaged with a lot more material than my contemporaries and worked my brain much harder, for longer.

Do you think this results in a quantifiable improvement in cognitive functioning? Aside from reading a book and knowing more about the contents of the book, does reading and thinking about ideas make us smarter in general?

I used the exercise analogy in the title, because someone who works out and is athletic is instantly recognisable. Do you believe that the same is true of someone who 'exercises' their mind? This is particularly relevant as the difference in mental exertion often dwarfs differences in physical exertion- a professor or thinker may read one hundred books in a year and constantly be thinking and weighing up different ideas in his head, whereas many people only rarely think deeply and truly exercise their minds in day to day life.

Post: #2

It probably depends on whether you are using your mind or if your mind is using you... I've found that a lot of thought is often compulsive and useless. Though this might not be the case for you.

Post: #3

It takes years and years to learn to think, and there are no shortcuts.
"A book a day" of non-fiction, preferably in targeted fields, will test you.

Post: #4

(08-13-2014 09:18 AM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  It takes years and years to learn to think, and there are no shortcuts.
"A book a day" of non-fiction, preferably in targeted fields, will test you.

I am not looking for a shortcut, maybe I wasn't clear enough with my initial post. What I'm seeking to clarify, is does someone who uses their brain much more exhibit better thinking overall, away from the specific details they have learnt? And does this occur to the same extent as when we train our bodies?

I think it is likely that in the very long term (which you describe), that occurs, but to what extent and how long do you think it takes?

Post: #5

Mental-Emotional-Pyschological exercise is much more important physical training.

Our brain is our greatest source of power.

(08-13-2014 08:40 AM)Cyr Wrote:  Do you think this results in a quantifiable improvement in cognitive functioning?

Yes

(08-13-2014 08:40 AM)Cyr Wrote:  does reading and thinking about ideas make us smarter in general?

Not necessarily.

Reading exposes you to information.

What you do with that information will determine if you are smart or not.

Also, it depends on what books you are reading? Your reading retention? Your analytical skills? Your ability to process information? Etc. ?

(08-13-2014 08:40 AM)Cyr Wrote:  someone who works out and is athletic is instantly recognisable. Do you believe that the same is true of someone who 'exercises' their mind?

No.

Many smart people are quiet and reserved.

If you didn't talk to them, you would never know how smart they are.

They are not 'instantly recognizable" the way a man with big muscles is.

***

I want to mention another word:

Meditation

This is the practice of mind control.

No reading, no analyzing, no problem solving..

Just being aware of your mental activity and learning how to control it.

This can be more valuable than reading and thinking.

---

I call it "clearing" the mind.

Some people read so much and think so much that I believe they get "information overload". They try to cram their brains with so much, they create a sort of "mental clutter".

Sometimes it better to think less but think deeper and with greater focus.

Accumulating facts and theories does not necessarily make one smart.

Having a good memory does not necessarily make one smart.

There are various forms of intelligence. Intellectual intelligence is only one type. Emotional intelligence and and social intelligence can be just as important.

In your quest to train your mind.. Consider some form as "meditation" or "mental cleaning" as well. Sometimes, we need to remove the "clutter" before new knowledge can be absorbed.

Social intelligence is my favorite type.

Post: #6

Of course. Imagine if you had never attended school and instead had worked in some menial job since you were young. Surely your mind would be less developed, you would be illiterate, innumerate, etc.

Self study can of course train your mind to become sharper, enhance your breadth of knowledge, etc.

Your brain develops more neural connections in certain parts of your braind depending on how you use it. Musicians and artists develop certain parts of their brains that others never do. People who learn multiple languages develop different parts of their brains. I am not a scientist, but I dont see why it would be any different with different skills.

Just like exercising your muscles, you get stronger in what you practice. You could be a runner and train for speed, or be a lifter and train for strength. In the same way, how you use your brain determines how it grows and develops.

One thing that is terrifying is that extended use of the internet and lack of reading books saps our ability to focus for extended periods of time. I know this has happened with me for sure, I find it more difficult to focus on books now as opposed websites. Sad but true.

Post: #7

I'm embarrassed to admit this, but..

I have never read a book in my life.

I think I have a learning disability or something.

Everything I know is from real world experience, talking to people, watching tv, internet, podcasts, etc.

Books are boring to me.

I am not proud of this but it's true.

I probably should work on this.. ?

I wonder of this has stunted my growth..?

Post: #8

^ I got a friend who is incredibly smart and successful but will never read anything.

He likes to get his knowledge first hand and he will independently come to the same conclusions that are identical from the books we recommend on here (48 laws etc.)

I think it comes down to learning style. I like to get my knowledge from written text and then compare that to what I see in the real world. Others like to experience it firsthand, experiment over time and come up with their own theories and conclusions. Reading a book would just slow these guys down and cloud their natural instinct.

Maybe someone can recommend a good book on different learning styles.

Post: #9

(08-13-2014 09:29 AM)Cyr Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 09:18 AM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  It takes years and years to learn to think, and there are no shortcuts.
"A book a day" of non-fiction, preferably in targeted fields, will test you.

I am not looking for a shortcut, maybe I wasn't clear enough with my initial post. What I'm seeking to clarify, is does someone who uses their brain much more exhibit better thinking overall, away from the specific details they have learnt? And does this occur to the same extent as when we train our bodies?

I think it is likely that in the very long term (which you describe), that occurs, but to what extent and how long do you think it takes?

Yes, they do and the benefits are immediate yet gradual. Not unlike the progress you see when growing a garden.

Post: #10

(08-13-2014 12:32 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  I'm embarrassed to admit this, but..

I have never read a book in my life.

I think I have a learning disability or something.

Everything I know is from real world experience, talking to people, watching tv, internet, podcasts, etc.

Books are boring to me.

I am not proud of this but it's true.

I probably should work on this.. ?

I wonder of this has stunted my growth..?

Well you can obviously read. I would recommend you try one. Even more than 1!

Seneca's Letters is a great read, and really it's just a collection of letters from him to a friend, so it's more like reading a series of blog posts. Ancient Roman blog posts. So maybe it'd be an easy transition from reading the internet.

Post: #11

(08-13-2014 12:32 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  Seneca's Letters is a great read,

Thanks for the tip!

Let me ask you.. What did you learn from reading "Seneca's Letters"?

How did it help your life?

Post: #12

Gio, reading will help your growth, but it's not the only path to knowing.

For instance, I've noticed when I meditate with the purpose of removing all thoughts, it paradoxically increases my ability to think afterwards.

As long as you try to stay as self-reflective as possible, and keep a curiosity for what's going on underneath the hood in all aspects of your relations and the world, you will always be growing, and in the ways that matter most.

From reading your posts, I get the sense you do that already.

If you want to start of with a good book, I recommend "The Brothers Karamazov". One of the greatest books I've ever read. I could hardly put it down.

Post: #13

If you can think critically and avoid cognitive biases, you are 99.99% ahead of everyone else, despite the number of books you've read. This is one of my favorite wikipedia articles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bia...ion_making

Post: #14

(08-13-2014 02:35 PM)Onto Wrote:  "The Brothers Karamazov"

What did you learn from this book?

How did it help your life?

Thanks again!

Post: #15

I read the Brothers Karamazov as well, I'll let Onto share his thoughts but here are mine:

The BK is one of the most powerful books I've ever read. Dostoevsky is an incredible writer and his understanding of human nature and psychology is astounding. He, like other 19th century Russian writers including Tolstoy (my avatar), used fiction as a means to convey these thoughts to the world.

Two of the most profound concepts from this book were:

1.) Belief in God
2.) Human Nature

Dostoevsky explains that belief in God is not logical, but it isn't supposed to be. We can't prove God's existence through reason, rather it is an emotional or "gut" feeling... at least for those who believe in God. I could never understand why it was so hard to explain God from a logical perspective, but the BK taught me it doesn't have to be.

While this book delves deeply into human nature, to me the relationship between the brothers is the most profound. Three of the brothers (Alyosha, Mitya, and Ivan) represent three distinct personalities of humans:

-Emotion, Honesty, and Piety (Alyosha)
-Reason and Logic (Ivan)
-Typical human nature (Mitya)

Alyosha and Ivan are at the far ends of the spectrum, whereas Mitya lies in the middle and serves as a representation for the majority of men. He is headstrong and hedonistic throughout the novel, but towards the end he has a religious epiphany which represents that all mankind has the potential to believe in the divine.

The book is much more complex than that and the above are just some opinions that have stuck with me since I finished it roughly 10 months ago. It is 700-800 pages or so filled with dense material. To finish the book is really rewarding though.

Post: #16

(08-13-2014 02:33 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  Thanks for the tip!

Let me ask you.. What did you learn from reading "Seneca's Letters"?

How did it help your life?

Seneca writes about many themes that basically have to do with self mastery. One letter specifically deals with the isolation one feels from ignoring the crowds. Everyone is doing something that you recognize as foolish or negative, and you don't want to participate. Yet you do recognize that social interaction is healthy, so you don't want to be completely alone.

He helps square a lot of contradictions like this, for the man who to some degree stands alone and is confident in himself, but does not want to become a complete loner and outsider.

Here is the letter I'm referencing, you can read it in 5-10 minutes:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Moral_lett...s/Letter_7

All of them are included there, for free, you may as well read them as a blog right now.

Post: #17

(08-13-2014 02:33 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  Thanks for the tip!

Let me ask you.. What did you learn from reading "Seneca's Letters"?

How did it help your life?

To understand Letters from a Stoic/Seneca's Letters, you need to first understand what Stoicism is, which is the underlying theme of Letters from a Stoic. 

The Stoics believed that we must live in accordance with nature to have a happy life. For example, they did something called "negative visualization," which basically means that you visualize what your life would be like if you lost something valuable such as your spouse, job, or parents. They believed that by doing this, we won't take these things for granted and we'll appreciate them because we know they can vanish from our world at any moment. They also advocated visualizing our own death too.

Another thing that I learned from the Stoics is that there are three degrees of control: things that we have complete of, things that we have some but not complete control of, and things that we have no control of at all. They believed that we should focus only on the things that are in our control, such as our thoughts and actions, and things that we have some but not complete control of, such as our job. The things we have no control of, such as people's opinions, should be the least of worries. 

The Stoics were also very fatalistic - that is, they believed that everything happens for a reason, whether good or bad, and we shouldn't get angry about it. It's a very interesting philosophy to say the least, though it can be a bit extreme at times. One of the things I don't agree with is their belief of "voluntary poverty" - we should, if we want to appreciate life and be happier, voluntarily live in poverty. 

To summarize, the Stoics just developed ways to ward off negative emotions. They were like ancient psychologists, haha. I think everyone should at least read Marcus Aurelius's Meditations or Epictetus' Discourses even if they don't like Stoicism. It's one of the few philosophies that's practical and can change our life for the better.

Post: #18

(08-13-2014 03:05 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 02:35 PM)Onto Wrote:  "The Brothers Karamazov"

What did you learn from this book?

How did it help your life?

Thanks again!

Truthfully I read it so long ago I don't remember.

What Seth_Rose said is spot on though. The book has everything, Murder, mystery, romance, spiritual crisis and redemption, written by a Rembrandt. I would read it until my eyes were sore, and I'm also not a big reader.

Post: #19

You shouldn't read everything with a purpose. One of the major purposes of reading is that books make you think about concepts that you didn't previously realize were important.

Post: #20

Yea, I read not because I want to derive value from a book but just because it's a pleasure in and of itself. Once you've read 4-5 decent books, you will develop a habit and you will want to continue down that path. Believe it or not, for me it started with the Harry Potter books. I read all of them in a matter of weeks. And I've been hooked ever since then, though I've moved away from children's literature to more serious topics

Reading is fucking awesome.

Post: #21

(08-13-2014 08:40 AM)Cyr Wrote:  This past year, I have done a lot of reading and thinking. I would like to think that I have engaged with a lot more material than my contemporaries and worked my brain much harder, for longer.

Do you think this results in a quantifiable improvement in cognitive functioning? Aside from reading a book and knowing more about the contents of the book, does reading and thinking about ideas make us smarter in general?

I used the exercise analogy in the title, because someone who works out and is athletic is instantly recognisable. Do you believe that the same is true of someone who 'exercises' their mind? This is particularly relevant as the difference in mental exertion often dwarfs differences in physical exertion- a professor or thinker may read one hundred books in a year and constantly be thinking and weighing up different ideas in his head, whereas many people only rarely think deeply and truly exercise their minds in day to day life.

Interesting questions

1) we basically measure intelligence as the ability to recognize patterns.

So reading, learning new skills is basically the chore of learning a new pattern.

a) If you have more patterns at your disposal, that means you can solve a given set of problems faster. Learning a new language, or learning to play guitar can unlock things in other avenues of life.

b) And then there are people who are able to figure out new and unfamiliar patterns faster than others.

It's my guess that for a lot of people, "b" category folks - people who can find patterns in novel situations are considered "smarter" than people who are just well versed in a lot of stuff.

In real life, I don't know how you would differentiate those people.

This whole argument is a bridge made of popsicle sticks.

2) Can people tell you're sharp?

The thing with exercise and lifting weights

You can tell someone's fit, if they're jacked wearing clothes.

Can you spot someone that can lift a ton of weight?
Can you tell if someone has "6 pack abs" with their shirt on?

Compare your typical "pull up bar" athlete to sprinter.

The sprinter is going to look athletic. The guy doing faux gymnastic stunts looks like a skinny teenager often times.

It's the same with intelligence/being smart.

The smart person has to take off the shirt to show you their abs.

The wise person sometimes realizes that it's best to shut the fuck up.

Great question.

Lemme throw this one out

When is it a good idea to demonstrate your intelligence?

I'm trying to think of a non-professional situation where flexing your mental skills is beneficial.

As the great Kris Parker once opined, "Bad Boys move in silence"

WIA

Post: #22

(08-13-2014 08:40 AM)Cyr Wrote:  This past year, I have done a lot of reading and thinking. I would like to think that I have engaged with a lot more material than my contemporaries and worked my brain much harder, for longer.

Do you think this results in a quantifiable improvement in cognitive functioning? Aside from reading a book and knowing more about the contents of the book, does reading and thinking about ideas make us smarter in general?

I used the exercise analogy in the title, because someone who works out and is athletic is instantly recognisable. Do you believe that the same is true of someone who 'exercises' their mind? This is particularly relevant as the difference in mental exertion often dwarfs differences in physical exertion- a professor or thinker may read one hundred books in a year and constantly be thinking and weighing up different ideas in his head, whereas many people only rarely think deeply and truly exercise their minds in day to day life.

If you're talking about pure IQ (i.e "g") then, no, you probably can't increase this number by using mental exercises. Though of course this is disputed, with some saying you can use "n-back" exercises to increase working memory, which itself predicts "g".

But as WIA says above it's bleeding obvious that by developing your mental faculties by learning, reading, observing and generally engaging with people and the world at a high level you will get better at doing not only the things you practice, but other related activities as well.

Especially with reading and writing. Reading a lot will increase your store of knowledge, and writing will make you more able to express your ideas. I'd concentrate on "actual" real world activities rather than ultra focused mental activities like the "n-back" game I mentioned above. If you have the time it wouldn't hurt doing both at the same time when starting out, but the focused activities probably don't make you much better at anything that counts.

Post: #23

(08-14-2014 08:36 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 08:40 AM)Cyr Wrote:  This past year, I have done a lot of reading and thinking. I would like to think that I have engaged with a lot more material than my contemporaries and worked my brain much harder, for longer.

Do you think this results in a quantifiable improvement in cognitive functioning? Aside from reading a book and knowing more about the contents of the book, does reading and thinking about ideas make us smarter in general?

I used the exercise analogy in the title, because someone who works out and is athletic is instantly recognisable. Do you believe that the same is true of someone who 'exercises' their mind? This is particularly relevant as the difference in mental exertion often dwarfs differences in physical exertion- a professor or thinker may read one hundred books in a year and constantly be thinking and weighing up different ideas in his head, whereas many people only rarely think deeply and truly exercise their minds in day to day life.

Interesting questions

1) we basically measure intelligence as the ability to recognize patterns.

So reading, learning new skills is basically the chore of learning a new pattern.

a) If you have more patterns at your disposal, that means you can solve a given set of problems faster. Learning a new language, or learning to play guitar can unlock things in other avenues of life.

b) And then there are people who are able to figure out new and unfamiliar patterns faster than others.

It's my guess that for a lot of people, "b" category folks - people who can find patterns in novel situations are considered "smarter" than people who are just well versed in a lot of stuff.

In real life, I don't know how you would differentiate those people.

This whole argument is a bridge made of popsicle sticks.

2) Can people tell you're sharp?

The thing with exercise and lifting weights

You can tell someone's fit, if they're jacked wearing clothes.

Can you spot someone that can lift a ton of weight?
Can you tell if someone has "6 pack abs" with their shirt on?

Compare your typical "pull up bar" athlete to sprinter.

The sprinter is going to look athletic. The guy doing faux gymnastic stunts looks like a skinny teenager often times.

It's the same with intelligence/being smart.

The smart person has to take off the shirt to show you their abs.

The wise person sometimes realizes that it's best to shut the fuck up.

Great question.

Lemme throw this one out

When is it a good idea to demonstrate your intelligence?

I'm trying to think of a non-professional situation where flexing your mental skills is beneficial.

As the great Kris Parker once opined, "Bad Boys move in silence"

WIA

That´s what Epicurus is saying too: Live hidden.

Post: #24

(08-14-2014 08:36 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(08-13-2014 08:40 AM)Cyr Wrote:  This past year, I have done a lot of reading and thinking. I would like to think that I have engaged with a lot more material than my contemporaries and worked my brain much harder, for longer.

Do you think this results in a quantifiable improvement in cognitive functioning? Aside from reading a book and knowing more about the contents of the book, does reading and thinking about ideas make us smarter in general?

I used the exercise analogy in the title, because someone who works out and is athletic is instantly recognisable. Do you believe that the same is true of someone who 'exercises' their mind? This is particularly relevant as the difference in mental exertion often dwarfs differences in physical exertion- a professor or thinker may read one hundred books in a year and constantly be thinking and weighing up different ideas in his head, whereas many people only rarely think deeply and truly exercise their minds in day to day life.

Interesting questions

1) we basically measure intelligence as the ability to recognize patterns.

So reading, learning new skills is basically the chore of learning a new pattern.

a) If you have more patterns at your disposal, that means you can solve a given set of problems faster. Learning a new language, or learning to play guitar can unlock things in other avenues of life.

b) And then there are people who are able to figure out new and unfamiliar patterns faster than others.

It's my guess that for a lot of people, "b" category folks - people who can find patterns in novel situations are considered "smarter" than people who are just well versed in a lot of stuff.

In real life, I don't know how you would differentiate those people.

This whole argument is a bridge made of popsicle sticks.

2) Can people tell you're sharp?

The thing with exercise and lifting weights

You can tell someone's fit, if they're jacked wearing clothes.

Can you spot someone that can lift a ton of weight?
Can you tell if someone has "6 pack abs" with their shirt on?

Compare your typical "pull up bar" athlete to sprinter.

The sprinter is going to look athletic. The guy doing faux gymnastic stunts looks like a skinny teenager often times.

It's the same with intelligence/being smart.

The smart person has to take off the shirt to show you their abs.

The wise person sometimes realizes that it's best to shut the fuck up.

Great question.

Lemme throw this one out

When is it a good idea to demonstrate your intelligence?

I'm trying to think of a non-professional situation where flexing your mental skills is beneficial.

As the great Kris Parker once opined, "Bad Boys move in silence"

WIA

Dammit WIA, now I gotta pull out the good ole BDP collection

Post: #25

Seth_Rose, Sonsowey, game_ethic, Onto, Engineer, Bill, MY DETROIT PLAYAS,

Thanks guys!

For sharing your experiences with these books. I really appreciate it!

(08-13-2014 03:29 PM)Seth_Rose Wrote:  the Brothers Karamazov

1.) Belief in God
2.) Human Nature

-Emotion, Honesty, and Piety (Alyosha)
-Reason and Logic (Ivan)
-Typical human nature (Mitya)

(08-13-2014 03:39 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  self mastery.

the isolation one feels from ignoring the crowds.

the man who to some degree stands alone and is confident in himself, but does not want to become a complete loner and outsider.

(08-13-2014 03:43 PM)game_ethic Wrote:  Stoicism

(08-13-2014 05:37 PM)Onto Wrote:  Murder, mystery, romance, spiritual crisis and redemption,

I have to be honest..

I don't know if something is wrong with me..?

Maybe reading is my greatest weakness?

Maybe, this is holding me back..?

But,

I have no desire to read any of these books!

The thought of learning life through books, instead of learning through first hand experience is frightening to me.

Generally, I don't want to know the perspective of another man before I first form my own perspective.

Generally, I don't like to form opinions, perspectives, and mindsets based on the experiences and views of other people.

God, human nature, emotion, honesty, piety, reason, logic, self mastery, isolation, stoicism, mystery, romance, spiritual crisis, redemption.

I think about these things constantly. I meditate and contemplate on them. I observe people, I talk to people, I read a few pages or paragraphs about them. But, most importantly, I try to live them!

I don't want to learn about these things though books. I want to live them first.

Later in life, I do expect to read about the conclusions of other men, but, for now, I am enjoying my own research and my own explorations of the world. That is what is most important to me.

I don't know? This is just the way I am.

I was always a bad student in school because I didn't care about most of the information.

I'm sure this hurts me sometimes and helps me other times.

I don't expect anyone to agree with me and I admit that my view is probably wrong.

As a boy, this scene had a great effect on me:

(skip to 1:15 if you want a shorter version)





To me, life is poetry..

I want to write my own verse before I study the verse of anyone else.

When I'm older, I imagine I will look back and begin to compare my findings with the findings of others.

But, for now, I want to be the #1 source of information in my life.

I am probably just being stubborn, but, I really enjoy studying the world on my terms.

I want to view the world through my "lens" -- "unfiltered" -- without the influence of anyone else.

In 20 years, I will probably look back at myself and laugh.

Maybe, I am being stupid?

(08-13-2014 03:39 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  Here is the letter I'm referencing, you can read it in 5-10 minutes:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Moral_lett...s/Letter_7

Thanks so much for posting that!

I will look at it.

(08-13-2014 02:53 PM)Engineer Wrote:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bia...ion_making

Okay,

This is the type of thing that I actually love reading!

It a series of charts that organizes the common biases that humans hold.

It's fascinating to me!

I love it because there is no bullshit to it.

No fluff, no extra words, no commentary, no dialogue, no story..

Just pure useful information.

I like that type of stuff!

(08-14-2014 10:59 AM)Bill Wrote:  That´s what Epicurus is saying too: Live hidden.

Do you mind expanding on this a little..

What did Epicurus mean by "live hidden"?

(08-14-2014 11:32 AM)MY DETROIT PLAYAS Wrote:  BDP collection

I learned a lot form Kris Parker.

I met him a few years ago at one of his speaking engagements.





------------------------------------------------------------------------

Younger guys,

Ignore my comments about reading.

Read as much good stuff as you can.

I am a strange exception.

I may even be totally wrong about this.

***

One of my favorite quotes:

"A conversation with one wise man is better than reading 10 books"

That more my style.