The Philippines thread
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Antipodean · 2014-07-26 22:28:00 · #551
I was actually referring to the 20% down deals that are widely promoted, where the condo is still a hole in the ground and they plan on completing construction by the time you have paid it off.
This is actually negative return for the buyer, as the developer is using your money.
Foreigners can not own land, only apartments, same as Thailand and many countries.
I think you could probably get a mortgage from a keen seller or a bank that you have credibility with in your home country.
This is actually negative return for the buyer, as the developer is using your money.
Foreigners can not own land, only apartments, same as Thailand and many countries.
I think you could probably get a mortgage from a keen seller or a bank that you have credibility with in your home country.
Onto · 2014-07-26 22:31:00 · #552
The studios in the building I will be staying at in CBD are running about 70k+ USD. Got this info on Sulit.com.ph
You could buy a few of them, do the AirBnb thing and quite possibly make a 10% return. But you'll be working as a hotelier so it's not a passive investment, and you are dealing with the general public, but it is income nonetheless in a country where good paying local jobs for foreigners are probably non-existent and since your investing 50k into property you get a visa that let's you stay permanently
You could buy a few of them, do the AirBnb thing and quite possibly make a 10% return. But you'll be working as a hotelier so it's not a passive investment, and you are dealing with the general public, but it is income nonetheless in a country where good paying local jobs for foreigners are probably non-existent and since your investing 50k into property you get a visa that let's you stay permanently
El Chinito loco · 2014-07-26 23:06:00 · #553
Here are a few significant issues with a owning condo in the philippines but a few other places in SEA in particular:
1) Exchange rate risk. When you buy a foreign condo you are also investing in the currency. Currency exchange rates are linked to U.S. interest rates. Right now U.S. interest rates are at historical lows which means the dollar value is also low. When interest rates come up off their lows the U.S. dollar will actually appreciate. This means the condo you bought can lose as much as 20-30% value overnight.
2) Transaction fees in the Philippines is high. When you sell a condo there's an awful lot of fees involved beyond what is normal even in southeast asia. A friend of mine sold his makati condo and got hit with at least 15% off his selling price in fees, taxes, and government b.s. I'm unsure of how this varies but it seems uniquely high in the Ph.
3) Cash flow isn't as good as it appears. The reason why is that with short term airbnb renting you also can have longer accumulated periods of vacancy (albeit with higher yield.) Tourism is a tiny fraction in Ph compared with let's say Indonesia or Thailand.
4) Condo associations in the Ph can can raise fees for no reason and as a building ages continued upkeep questionable. Condos in the Ph can act as overall depreciating assets in the long term.
5) There's also a large glut of building going on which means supply that is not always commensurate with demand. We're seeing a slight repeat of 1997 with misappropriation of national development funds for short term real estate profits. An example of the building glut i'm talking about is the area around century city mall. There's no less than 8 developments going up simultaneously. A couple of the fancier buildings have 75% pre-bookings but it's very unlikely the rest of the buildings will come even close to being sold out.
Of course this doesn't mean every condo investment in the Ph is mediocre but it doesn't even beat the S&P 500 index fund in most cases.
1) Exchange rate risk. When you buy a foreign condo you are also investing in the currency. Currency exchange rates are linked to U.S. interest rates. Right now U.S. interest rates are at historical lows which means the dollar value is also low. When interest rates come up off their lows the U.S. dollar will actually appreciate. This means the condo you bought can lose as much as 20-30% value overnight.
2) Transaction fees in the Philippines is high. When you sell a condo there's an awful lot of fees involved beyond what is normal even in southeast asia. A friend of mine sold his makati condo and got hit with at least 15% off his selling price in fees, taxes, and government b.s. I'm unsure of how this varies but it seems uniquely high in the Ph.
3) Cash flow isn't as good as it appears. The reason why is that with short term airbnb renting you also can have longer accumulated periods of vacancy (albeit with higher yield.) Tourism is a tiny fraction in Ph compared with let's say Indonesia or Thailand.
4) Condo associations in the Ph can can raise fees for no reason and as a building ages continued upkeep questionable. Condos in the Ph can act as overall depreciating assets in the long term.
5) There's also a large glut of building going on which means supply that is not always commensurate with demand. We're seeing a slight repeat of 1997 with misappropriation of national development funds for short term real estate profits. An example of the building glut i'm talking about is the area around century city mall. There's no less than 8 developments going up simultaneously. A couple of the fancier buildings have 75% pre-bookings but it's very unlikely the rest of the buildings will come even close to being sold out.
Of course this doesn't mean every condo investment in the Ph is mediocre but it doesn't even beat the S&P 500 index fund in most cases.
Also don't believe the lowest advertized prices. That 1.2 is probably if you pay cash up front. Any payment scheme at all will bring up the bottom line.
For example. You can buy a studio at building x for 2.1 M cash
The same unit with nothing down and the 42 months amortization period will cost say 2.7 M
10% down - 2.5 M
20% down - 2.3 M
But of course the ad you see will say 2.1 M
Personally I wouldn't try getting rich through real estate in the Philippines, but if you can buy a decent little place for $55 - 60K, rent it out when you're not there, stay in it when you are, and maybe keep it to retire in or sell it after a few years, at worst you're probably going to break even on it.
For example. You can buy a studio at building x for 2.1 M cash
The same unit with nothing down and the 42 months amortization period will cost say 2.7 M
10% down - 2.5 M
20% down - 2.3 M
But of course the ad you see will say 2.1 M
Personally I wouldn't try getting rich through real estate in the Philippines, but if you can buy a decent little place for $55 - 60K, rent it out when you're not there, stay in it when you are, and maybe keep it to retire in or sell it after a few years, at worst you're probably going to break even on it.
DirectDanger · 2014-07-27 00:05:00 · #555
Philippine population hits 100 million today
http://www.manilatimes.net/philippine-po...ay/114413/
July 26, 2014
http://www.manilatimes.net/philippine-po...ay/114413/
July 26, 2014
Quote:The Philippines, the 12th most populous country in the world, welcomes its 100-million citizen today, presenting both challenges and opportunities.
“The issue of population is critical for humanity. But it is important to emphasize that population is not merely a matter of numbers, but of human rights and opportunities,” Klaus Beck, Country Representative of the United Nations Population Fund in the Philippines, said.
In the 2011 State of World Population Report, which tackled another milestone, namely the world’s 7 billion population, it was stated that the attainment of a stable population is a sine qua non for accelerated economic growth and development. “Governments that are serious about eradicating poverty should also be serious about providing the services, supplies, information that women, men and young people need to exercise their reproductive rights,” the report said.
In many parts of the developing world, where population growth is outpacing economic growth, the unmet need for reproductive health care, especially voluntary family planning, remains great.
“In the Philippines, women in the poorest quintile have an average of six children, two more than they desire, because of lack of access to reproductive health information and services,” Beck said.
He also noted that 49 percent of the population live in cities as more people from the rural areas look for better opportunities elsewhere. This migration poses issues that have to be addressed such as trafficking in women and girls.
The Philippine population remains young with people under the age of 25 making up 54 percent of the population.
“There is a need to respond to the rights and needs of young people by providing them with education, job opportunities, and life skills including appropriate information about their sexuality,” Beck stressed.
Currently, 10 percent of Filipino girls aged 15 to 19 have begun childbearing. Young people are also increasingly becoming more vulnerable to HIV infections, with one out of three new cases belonging to the 15-24 age group.
“The 100 million Philippine population presents an opportunity for all partners and stakeholders to make the right investments in people now so we can prepare the groundwork for thriving, sustainable cities, productive labor forces that fuel equitable economic growth, youth that contribute to the well-being of economies and societies, and a generation of older people who are healthy and actively engaged in the social and economic affairs of their communities,” Beck said.
daswasser · 2014-07-27 09:30:00 · #556
(07-26-2014 11:06 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote: 5) There's also a large glut of building going on which means supply that is not always commensurate with demand. We're seeing a slight repeat of 1997 with misappropriation of national development funds for short term real estate profits. An example of the building glut i'm talking about is the area around century city mall. There's no less than 8 developments going up simultaneously. A couple of the fancier buildings have 75% pre-bookings but it's very unlikely the rest of the buildings will come even close to being sold out.
I was seriously considering investing in a condo in Fort/Makati but after speaking to quite a few other investors/brokers etc this seem to be a main concern coming years. Especially mid-end condos are gonna get hit from what I've learned (which also includes properties like Knightsbridge/Gram). I don't even wanna think about the traffic situation around Century mall when all units are completed and occupied around that area..
Tail Gunner · 2014-07-27 11:42:00 · #557
I'm not sure about investing in a condo in Makati, but I am sure as hell going to invest in a daily massage there. Just to be clear, I am talking about non-sensual massage.
I love massage and reflexology (foot massages), but they are expensive in the U.S., at least for anyone who knows what they are doing (about $75 to $100 per hour for a therapeutic massage). Here is a Google map of massage businesses near the Greenbelt. I count more than thirty or so.
https://www.google.com/maps/search/massa...228343,16z
So far, I priced only two. One inside Greenbelt 1, which seems to cater to women, charges $20 to $25 per hour. Another one, a short walk from the mall, charges about $7 an hour for regular massage or foot massage. I seem to recall someone on the forum stating that massages averaged about $8 an hour.
This will definitely be a part of my daily routine in the Phils! If anyone has a particular recommendation near the Greenbelt area, please let me know.
BTW: Yet another reason to carry a cheap cell phone. If I am leaving my clothing unattended for an hour or so every day (perhaps trying different massage businesses), it is probably a good idea to risk a cheap cell phone rather than a brand new Galaxy or iphone. Probably also a good idea to download my contact list every few days as well. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
I love massage and reflexology (foot massages), but they are expensive in the U.S., at least for anyone who knows what they are doing (about $75 to $100 per hour for a therapeutic massage). Here is a Google map of massage businesses near the Greenbelt. I count more than thirty or so.
https://www.google.com/maps/search/massa...228343,16z
So far, I priced only two. One inside Greenbelt 1, which seems to cater to women, charges $20 to $25 per hour. Another one, a short walk from the mall, charges about $7 an hour for regular massage or foot massage. I seem to recall someone on the forum stating that massages averaged about $8 an hour.
This will definitely be a part of my daily routine in the Phils! If anyone has a particular recommendation near the Greenbelt area, please let me know.
BTW: Yet another reason to carry a cheap cell phone. If I am leaving my clothing unattended for an hour or so every day (perhaps trying different massage businesses), it is probably a good idea to risk a cheap cell phone rather than a brand new Galaxy or iphone. Probably also a good idea to download my contact list every few days as well. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
ElJefe1 · 2014-07-27 19:59:00 · #558
It sounds like this may not be the best time to buy right now but when the bubble burst......
Tail Gunner · 2014-07-27 20:58:00 · #559
(07-27-2014 07:59 PM)ElJefe1 Wrote: It sounds like this may not be the best time to buy right now but when the bubble burst......
Housing bubbles occur only when the government intervenes and distorts the market by offering guaranteed mortgage loans to unqualified buyers, artificially lowers mortgage rates below market interest rates, or otherwise meddles in the market. In the Philippines, foreigners cannot obtain most types of mortgages because they cannot own land (it is therefore difficult for them to inflate prices), mortgage loans for citizens are at market rates (between 11% and 12%), and the vast majority of citizens are too poor to qualify for mortgages (which helps to keep supply at equilibrium with demand).
If the Philippine housing market operated like the corrupt and socialized U.S. housing market, housing prices would be at least twice as high in Makati. I am not saying that the housing market in the Philippines cannot temporarily decline. Indeed, a price decline could still happen because of a glut of housing in certain areas or an economic downturn. I am simply saying that there can be no housing bubble in the Philippines, as classically defined. Things are very different in a cash and carry world. Stated another way: in how many national capitals can you buy a condo in the best part of the city for $100,000.
Openbar · 2014-07-27 22:11:00 · #560
(07-26-2014 11:06 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote: 4) Condo associations in the Ph can can raise fees for no reason and as a building ages continued upkeep questionable. Condos in the Ph can act as overall depreciating assets in the long term.
It's been a while since my Philippine experience but in the condo world I was struck by the association officers having salaries and perks. In the U.S. homeowner associations are non-profit and officers don't get salaries. In the Philippines, at least at that time, developers sold units under what we'd call a "land contract" in the U.S. -- a contract under which legal title remains with the seller until fully paid off. As long as the developer held legal title to the majority of units, he and his cronies held all the association board seats, voting themselves salaries and perks (like vehicles and allowances) that were paid by all the residents through association fees. Failure to pay association fees is an event of default for a land contract purchaser, so they, too, were stuck with the fees the same as the outright purchasers.
The message here is to examine the current state of governance of the association before you buy, and make sure that the voting rights are in hands with needs and objectives similar to your own.
ElJefe1 · 2014-07-28 05:28:00 · #561
(07-27-2014 08:58 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote:(07-27-2014 07:59 PM)ElJefe1 Wrote: It sounds like this may not be the best time to buy right now but when the bubble burst......
Housing bubbles occur only when the government intervenes and distorts the market by offering guaranteed mortgage loans to unqualified buyers, artificially lowers mortgage rates below market interest rates, or otherwise meddles in the market. In the Philippines, foreigners cannot obtain most types of mortgages because they cannot own land (it is therefore difficult for them to inflate prices), mortgage loans for citizens are at market rates (between 11% and 12%), and the vast majority of citizens are too poor to qualify for mortgages (which helps to keep supply at equilibrium with demand).
If the Philippine housing market operated like the corrupt and socialized U.S. housing market, housing prices would be at least twice as high in Makati. I am not saying that the housing market in the Philippines cannot temporarily decline. Indeed, a price decline could still happen because of a glut of housing in certain areas or an economic downturn. I am simply saying that there can be no housing bubble in the Philippines, as classically defined. Things are very different in a cash and carry world. Stated another way: in how many national capitals can you buy a condo in the best part of the city for $100,000.
Okay..... I'm no economist but I'd venture to say there is more than that one singularity of gov't interevention that can cause a housing bubble to burst but to make things easier hohpw about we say "when the market declines". When the market declines that maybe the perfect time to buy....
Tail Gunner · 2014-07-28 17:47:00 · #562
I personally like Filipino food, especially chicken adobo and the various chicken stews. I could easily eat one of those dishes every day for a month. But what to eat the rest of the time?
I just stumbled across this search engine. This particular link is set to metro Manila, where I plan to stay, but you can substitute other areas.
http://www.zomato.com/manila
You can type in the type of food that you want to eat or the name of a restaurant or even the name of a bar or club. It provides the address, all the locations (if a chain), and -- most importantly -- a menu with prices for most restaurants. It even brought up the bar list for Palladium! As another example, there are plenty of Thai, Vietnamese, Indian, and Middle Eastern restaurants listed in the Makati area where you can buy a meal for $10 or less.
I can envision myself eating market-bought fruit and vegetables for breakfast (I am not a big breakfast guy), eating cheap local Filipino food for lunch, and then splurging on a healthier meal for dinner (e.g., Thai, Vietnamese, or Indian), paying maybe $10 for a meal. It certainly helps to know the price of things before you travel to a foreign land. This search engine certainly helps.
I am just now beginning my research for the Phils, so please let me know if anyone recommends any other search engines or tools.
I just stumbled across this search engine. This particular link is set to metro Manila, where I plan to stay, but you can substitute other areas.
http://www.zomato.com/manila
You can type in the type of food that you want to eat or the name of a restaurant or even the name of a bar or club. It provides the address, all the locations (if a chain), and -- most importantly -- a menu with prices for most restaurants. It even brought up the bar list for Palladium! As another example, there are plenty of Thai, Vietnamese, Indian, and Middle Eastern restaurants listed in the Makati area where you can buy a meal for $10 or less.
I can envision myself eating market-bought fruit and vegetables for breakfast (I am not a big breakfast guy), eating cheap local Filipino food for lunch, and then splurging on a healthier meal for dinner (e.g., Thai, Vietnamese, or Indian), paying maybe $10 for a meal. It certainly helps to know the price of things before you travel to a foreign land. This search engine certainly helps.
I am just now beginning my research for the Phils, so please let me know if anyone recommends any other search engines or tools.
Global Entry · 2014-07-28 18:33:00 · #563
Gunner, you can also consider just having someone cook something healthy for you either fresh or to reheat several times a week. The labor is dirt cheap, you can have a woman who will cook and clean for basically very little, which of course will pay for itself in savings vs. dining out for every dinner.
Or alternatively, you could fuck a sweet young thing (or two or three) who is happy to cook and to clean and keep her man happy, and then more than happy to serve as dessert herself.
Or alternatively, you could fuck a sweet young thing (or two or three) who is happy to cook and to clean and keep her man happy, and then more than happy to serve as dessert herself.
Tail Gunner · 2014-07-28 20:35:00 · #564
(07-28-2014 06:33 PM)G_global Wrote: Gunner, you can also consider just having someone cook something healthy for you either fresh or to reheat several times a week. The labor is dirt cheap, you can have a woman who will cook and clean for basically very little, which of course will pay for itself in savings vs. dining out for every dinner.
Or alternatively, you could fuck a sweet young thing (or two or three) who is happy to cook and to clean and keep her man happy, and then more than happy to serve as dessert herself.
By any chance, do you know of any web sites that present such housekeeping options for a month-long visit? Thanks in advance.
The potentail downside that I see: I would choose restaurants for my daily meals in target rich environments. Eating at home eliminates several hours worth of gaming opportunities. Just thinking ahead.
Dagnasty · 2014-07-28 20:59:00 · #565
(07-28-2014 08:35 PM)Tail Gunner Wrote: By any chance, do you know of any web sites that present such housekeeping options for a month-long visit? Thanks in advance.
Family of my LTR in my case.
If you pick the family of your date, expect them to be eyes and ears.
If you're rolling through a bunch of them, it's best to have someone disinterested prepare your food of course.
Vacancier Permanent · 2014-07-29 22:14:00 · #566
Guys,
Thought this to be important to be posted here as well so anyone going or thinking of going there is aware of this scary scam being used on dating sites in the Phils.
http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-38665-...#pid793384
Proceed with extreme caution guys!!!
Thought this to be important to be posted here as well so anyone going or thinking of going there is aware of this scary scam being used on dating sites in the Phils.
http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-38665-...#pid793384
Proceed with extreme caution guys!!!
JayJuanGee · 2014-07-29 22:18:00 · #567
(07-29-2014 10:14 PM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote: Guys,
Thought this to be important to be posted here as well so anyone going or thinking of going there is aware of this scary being used on dating sites in the Phils.
http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-38665-...#pid793384
Proceed with extreme caution guys!!!
WE should get an amber alert... .. that is an alert across all threads...
calwinston · 2014-07-30 10:18:00 · #568
The apartment I am renting here on Panglao Island, is running me 9000 pesos a month (roughly $200). The apartment is fully furnished including free wifi and a swimming pool. The only cost out of pocket I have is utilities. Electricity runs about 1000-1500 pesos (22-35 dollars) a month. Satellite television is costing me 430 pesos (10 dollars) a month for the mid range package with a couple of movie channels (HBO, etc.)
Renting a semi automatic motorbike for 3000 pesos (70 dollars) a month.
The apartment is a 3 minute ride from the nearest beach and 5 minutes from the big tourist beach, Alona Beach. Tagbilaran (capital of Bohol) is 15 minutes away a city of 100,000 with 6 universities and colleges.
Giving everyone a idea on how much it is to live near a tourist beach in the Philippines.
Renting a semi automatic motorbike for 3000 pesos (70 dollars) a month.
The apartment is a 3 minute ride from the nearest beach and 5 minutes from the big tourist beach, Alona Beach. Tagbilaran (capital of Bohol) is 15 minutes away a city of 100,000 with 6 universities and colleges.
Giving everyone a idea on how much it is to live near a tourist beach in the Philippines.
calwinston · 2014-07-30 10:20:00 · #569
(07-30-2014 10:18 AM)calwinston Wrote: The apartment I am renting here on Panglao Island, is running me 9000 pesos a month (roughly $200). The apartment is fully furnished including free wifi and a swimming pool. The only cost out of pocket I have is utilities. Electricity runs about 1000-1500 pesos (22-35 dollars) a month. Satellite television is costing me 430 pesos (10 dollars) a month for the mid range package with a couple of movie channels (HBO, etc.)
Renting a semi automatic motorbike for 3000 pesos (70 dollars) a month.
The apartment is a 3 minute ride from the nearest beach and 5 minutes from the big tourist beach, Alona Beach. Tagbilaran (capital of Bohol) is 15 minutes away a city of 100,000 with 6 universities and colleges.
Giving everyone a idea on how much it is to live near a tourist beach in the Philippines.
Cr33pin · 2014-07-30 10:21:00 · #570
Very nice calwinston! Is it a fairly safe area? Many white tourist running around?
randomweights · 2014-07-30 10:24:00 · #571
(07-30-2014 10:18 AM)calwinston Wrote: s.
Giving everyone a idea on how much it is to live near a tourist beach in the Philippines.
Amazing man! Is it close to a good gym? I'm paying a lot more than that for beach front place in Thailand but gyms abound.
Just to add I love the Philippines and their girls. Currently seeing a girl I met online - her friend set up the profile. We've been dating for 4 months. Her parents are rich as fuck, she speaks 4 languages, is a US educated doctor and an international model. She hates all forms of social media and never takes her phone when we go out. Quality girls are out there.
Cr33pin · 2014-07-30 10:29:00 · #572
(07-30-2014 10:24 AM)randomweights Wrote:(07-30-2014 10:18 AM)calwinston Wrote: s.
Giving everyone a idea on how much it is to live near a tourist beach in the Philippines.
Amazing man! Is it close to a good gym? I'm paying a lot more than that for beach front place in Thailand but gyms abound.
Just to add I love the Philippines and their girls. Currently seeing a girl I met online - her friend set up the profile. We've been dating for 4 months. Her parents are rich as fuck, she speaks 4 languages, is a US educated doctor and an international model. She hates all forms of social media and never takes her phone when we go out. Quality girls are out there.
Damn bro you found a unicorn!
more info on Bohol plz!
I went to Bohol, Alona beach was nice.
I went to Bohol, Alona beach was nice.
calwinston · 2014-07-30 10:46:00 · #574
(07-30-2014 10:24 AM)randomweights Wrote:(07-30-2014 10:18 AM)calwinston Wrote: s.
Giving everyone a idea on how much it is to live near a tourist beach in the Philippines.
Amazing man! Is it close to a good gym? I'm paying a lot more than that for beach front place in Thailand but gyms abound.
Just to add I love the Philippines and their girls. Currently seeing a girl I met online - her friend set up the profile. We've been dating for 4 months. Her parents are rich as fuck, she speaks 4 languages, is a US educated doctor and an international model. She hates all forms of social media and never takes her phone when we go out. Quality girls are out there.
Yeah I go to a gym right by the beach (Alona Beach). Panglao Regents Park Gym. Don't let the prices scare you. I negotiated to 33 percent off for 6 months. It has showers, lockers, television, aerobic and zumba classes (to chat up some filipina and expat girls that work in the area), plus hot gym assistants.
http://www.regentsparkresort.com/thegym.html
They have two rooms but are only showing one room in the photo. Plus they have a pool I go in from time to time after I worked out to cool off. Sometimes lounge in the chairs to check out and talk to the girls visiting the area.
A disclaimer that the pool is not included in the price but the staff do not care.
calwinston · 2014-07-30 11:06:00 · #575
(07-30-2014 10:21 AM)Cr33pin Wrote: Very nice calwinston! Is it a fairly safe area? Many white tourist running around?
Basically all of Alona Beach is owned by foreigners.
The tourist ratio is 60 percent-Asian, 35 percent European/Australian. The rest from everywhere else.
The area is really safe. Its one the advantages of being here instead of Boracay.
Many German and Scandinavian girls come here in groups to go to dive school. Plus you have the northeast Asians chicks, but they tend to have a guy lurking with them. Sometimes you get lucky and have some of the girls coming from the English schools, here to get away before going back home.