Post: #26

(07-16-2014 07:38 PM)Osiris Wrote:  Undocumented immigrants can't get welfare because its only available to U.S. citizens.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/07/16/fed...p=trending

   

Fed-backed group drops plan to buy fancy hotel to house illegals

A plan to house hundreds of illegal immigrant children at a multimillion-dollar hotel complex in Texas was scuttled after the prospect of taxpayers footing the bill for luxury lodging proved too much of a public relations obstacle.

BCFS, previously known as Baptist Child and Family Services, which has a contract with the Department of Health and Human Services to run camps at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio and Fort Sill in Oklahoma, had a deal to buy the Palm Aire Hotel in Weslaco, Texas, for $3.8 million. The hotel was built in the 1980s and includes three swimming pools, tennis courts and an exercise room.

The Palm Aire Hotel is not exactly Club Med but the 7-acre site features three swimming pools, lighted tennis courts, concierge service and a Jacuzzi.

"This proposal sought to find a solution for providing safe, humane care for the children flooding across the border and overwhelming U.S. Border Patrol and communities," BCSF said in a statement announcing the deal was scrapped. "BCFS is thankful to the City of Weslaco for their consideration and support, and is disappointed that misinformation has fueled so much negativity against this effort that its success is likely jeopardized."

Officials said the project never reached the point of submitting a proposal to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, but one of the hotel's current owners confirmed that a sales agreement with BCSF had been in place.

The deal died Wednesday afternoon, hours after FoxNews.com reported that as many as 600 children between the ages of 12-17 could be placed at the Palm Aire, where BCFS would also provide medical and mental health care and educational and recreational programs under a contract that sources said could total as much as $50 million.

The Palm Aire Hotel is not exactly Club Med -- but the 7-acre site features three swimming pools, lighted tennis courts, concierge service and a Jacuzzi. The property also has around 10,000 square feet of retail and meeting space.

Weslaco is part of the complex of communities that includes McAllen at Texas' extreme southern border, where tens of thousands of unaccompanied children from Central America have crossed over from Mexico, overwhelming Border patrol facilities. Federal agencies and non-governmental organizations have been scrambling for places to house the massive surge of illegal immigrants.

BCSF had planned to hire 650 workers – some making upward of $45 per hour - to staff the facility, according to sources.

Officials said the location made sense, even if it made for bad optics.

"The facility also would have allowed for the quick transfer of children in Border Patrol custody in South Texas to a residential child care facility, and then expedited release to their families," BCFS officials said. "The average length of stay was expected to be 15 days. During that time, children would be provided room and board, in addition to basic education, recreational activities, medical and mental health care, case management, and religious services, if they chose to participate. The children would not have attended public school."

But images of the hotel's amenities generated a backlash that officials said could not be overcome.

"We are not going to continue with trying to purchase that hotel," a source close to the plan told Fox News. "It was just too controversial. We should have known better, no matter what the cost."

Post: #27

(07-16-2014 10:11 PM)JayMillz Wrote:  

(07-16-2014 07:38 PM)Osiris Wrote:  Undocumented immigrants can't get welfare because its only available to U.S. citizens.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/07/16/fed...p=trending

Fed-backed group drops plan to buy fancy hotel to house illegals

A plan to house hundreds of illegal immigrant children at a multimillion-dollar hotel complex in Texas was scuttled after the prospect of taxpayers footing the bill for luxury lodging proved too much of a public relations obstacle.

BCFS, previously known as Baptist Child and Family Services, which has a contract with the Department of Health and Human Services to run camps at Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio and Fort Sill in Oklahoma, had a deal to buy the Palm Aire Hotel in Weslaco, Texas, for $3.8 million.

Officials said the project never reached the point of submitting a proposal to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, but one of the hotel's current owners confirmed that a sales agreement with BCSF had been in place.

The deal died Wednesday afternoon, hours after FoxNews.com reported that as many as 600 children between the ages of 12-17 could be placed at the Palm Aire, where BCFS would also provide medical and mental health care and educational and recreational programs under a contract that sources said could total as much as $50 million.


BCSF had planned to hire 650 workers – some making upward of $45 per hour - to staff the facility, according to sources.

"The facility also would have allowed for the quick transfer of children in Border Patrol custody in South Texas to a residential child care facility, and then expedited release to their families," BCFS officials said. "The average length of stay was expected to be 15 days. During that time, children would be provided room and board, in addition to basic education, recreational activities, medical and mental health care, case management, and religious services, if they chose to participate. The children would not have attended public school."

Key points:

• It was planned by a contractor as a temporary place to process children
• Healthcare professionals make big bucks.
• The plan never came close to fruition, it wasn't even submitted.
  

Maybe I'm getting soft but I'd rather see children being able to be kids, however briefly, than see them locked in kennels.

Notice that this picture is from The Blaze, not exactly Huffington Post or The Atlantic...

Post: #28

The one thing Americans cannot refuse… "The Children."

It's over. It's time to Balkanize, now.

Post: #29

I'm just surprised that no one is cluing into the fact that this kind of thing always seems to happen right in time for big elections (Midterm Elections 2014 this time).

I'd rather not get distracted by this trifling bullshit and keep my eyes on the hands of the multinationals about to double my rates, put cameras in my house, dumb down my women even more with facile diversions, or figure out a way to charge me for something that's always been free.

How this issue looks to me:

   

Post: #30

Quote:I'd rather not get distracted by this trifling bullshit and keep my eyes on the hands of the multinationals about to raise my rates, put cameras in my house, or figure out a way to charge me for something that's always been free.

Agree, but these things can only be fought by a monocult -- people with a shared version of history and, more importantly, a shared understanding of the meanings of words and ideas.

That's the whole point of pushing the multicult -- a big enough faction can never be established to fight the status quo.

The multicult and the lack of accountability in government are inextricably related.

Post: #31

(07-16-2014 06:50 PM)MidWest Wrote:  This whole immigration debate is ridiculous.

I'm Mexican/American and the argument that illegals are all on welfare and are taking "American" jobs is so outplayed its ridiculous. So are they taking American jobs or on welfare? Which is it going to be? They can't be on welfare and taking American jobs at the same time. BS!

The men work under the table while the women have multiple children and collect government checks every month and have their medical expenses paid for by tax payers for each of those children.

So yes, they are taking American jobs and also collecting welfare at the same time.

Post: #32

I'm on the extreme end of the spectrum. I say build a big-ass fence, stop letting the illegals in, and deport all of the illegals that are already here.

Now I realize that's never, ever going to happen, no matter what party's in power.

So I"m just going to focus on myself, get educated, stack cash, and become a member of the elite class so when shit hits the fan I'll be insulated by my stacks of cash and hopefully a second citizenship.

Post: #33

Illegal immigration is really being re-invigorated among the American public. Possibly with 2016 coming up, but more likely, the lack of new material.

It had slowed down after hitting a critical mass in around 2005 during that boycott.

Post: #34

The illegal immigrants i've known in New York, are the most hard working people ive know. Cleaning toilets, washing dishes, raising rich people's kids and don't get any crap from government. Illegals cant show up and apply for welfare and medicaid. I say this as an American whose gotten free shit btw.

Post: #35

I love how everyone recites media talking points about illegals being these hardworking people doing all of these terrible jobs no one else can do.

So laughable.

Illegals take jobs because they work under minimum wage. American's cannot work under minimum wage laws or else the employer risks jail time. Thus it's false to say Americans wouldn't work at illegal wages. There are plenty of disparate American citizens would be more than happy to send their kids to work for 5 bucks an hour. When I was 14 my mother got me a job washing dishes for 5 bucks an hour. I was happy to get my thirty dollars at the end of the day.

Next, illegals aren't doing difficult work. In fact, as the work of building houses, fixing toilets, and other low-skilled labor becomes automated, these illegals are also going to be out of a job. And then there will be just more poors leaching off the welfare system.

And Osiris, guess what, every illegal in America gets welfare, as long as they are a woman or a child. The men also can walk into an ER room and they also must be taken care of. Illegals are also fat and live generally unhealthy lifestyles because they work in horrendous working conditions, which means they will need more trips to the doctor.

Illegal immigration, no matter how you look at it, will make everyone in this country poor. If left unchecked our standards of living will decline down to third world levels.

But none of this shit really matters because America is going bankrupt and no one is going to feed the illegals when the welfare checks stop.

Post: #36

(07-17-2014 01:01 AM)Samseau Wrote:  I love how everyone recites media talking points about illegals being these hardworking people doing all of these terrible jobs no one else can do.

So laughable.

Illegals take jobs because they work under minimum wage. American's cannot work under minimum wage laws or else the employer risks jail time. Thus it's false to say Americans wouldn't work at illegal wages. There are plenty of disparate American citizens would be more than happy to send their kids to work for 5 bucks an hour. When I was 14 my mother got me a job washing dishes for 5 bucks an hour. I was happy to get my thirty dollars at the end of the day.

Next, illegals aren't doing difficult work. In fact, as the work of building houses, fixing toilets, and other low-skilled labor becomes automated, these illegals are also going to be out of a job. And then there will be just more poors leaching off the welfare system.

And Osiris, guess what, every illegal in America gets welfare, as long as they are a woman or a child. The men also can walk into an ER room and they also must be taken care of. Illegals are also fat and live generally unhealthy lifestyles because they work in horrendous working conditions, which means they will need more trips to the doctor.

Illegal immigration, no matter how you look at it, will make everyone in this country poor. If left unchecked our standards of living will decline down to third world levels.

But none of this shit really matters because America is going bankrupt and no one is going to feed the illegals when the welfare checks stop.

Plus if these are jobs that are necessary and nobody wants to do them, then why don't we force people on public assistance to do these jobs. In order to collect welfare or section 8 or food stamps, you have to do one of these shitty jobs "Americans won't do" for a certain amount of hours a week. Clean toilets, work at a construction site, pick fruit in the fields, whatever is needed. That will solve the problem right there.

Post: #37

(07-17-2014 01:07 AM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 01:01 AM)Samseau Wrote:  I love how everyone recites media talking points about illegals being these hardworking people doing all of these terrible jobs no one else can do.

So laughable.

Illegals take jobs because they work under minimum wage. American's cannot work under minimum wage laws or else the employer risks jail time. Thus it's false to say Americans wouldn't work at illegal wages. There are plenty of disparate American citizens would be more than happy to send their kids to work for 5 bucks an hour. When I was 14 my mother got me a job washing dishes for 5 bucks an hour. I was happy to get my thirty dollars at the end of the day.

Next, illegals aren't doing difficult work. In fact, as the work of building houses, fixing toilets, and other low-skilled labor becomes automated, these illegals are also going to be out of a job. And then there will be just more poors leaching off the welfare system.

And Osiris, guess what, every illegal in America gets welfare, as long as they are a woman or a child. The men also can walk into an ER room and they also must be taken care of. Illegals are also fat and live generally unhealthy lifestyles because they work in horrendous working conditions, which means they will need more trips to the doctor.

Illegal immigration, no matter how you look at it, will make everyone in this country poor. If left unchecked our standards of living will decline down to third world levels.

But none of this shit really matters because America is going bankrupt and no one is going to feed the illegals when the welfare checks stop.

Plus if these are jobs that are necessary and nobody wants to do them, then why don't we force people on public assistance to do these jobs. In order to collect welfare or section 8 or food stamps, you have to do one of these shitty jobs "Americans won't do" for a certain amount of hours a week. Clean toilets, work at a construction site, pick fruit in the fields, whatever is needed. That will solve the problem right there.

This what was originally intended with welfare under FDR.

But if we tried this today, the Democrats would get swept out of office for doing the right thing but throwing a large % of their voter block under the bus. So that will never happen.

Just like the Maryland Governor claiming we should let the kids come to the USA, and then behind closed doors screaming and demanding none of them come to Maryland.

The illegal aliens will decrease our standard of living, and in turn will eventually hurt the rest of the world. This is the end result of a country that lets welfare recipients have equal say on how tax dollars are spent.

Post: #38

The children at the border is a problem and something needs to happen but lets start with some real facts about immigration.

Illegal immigration is basically flat for the last few years.


The US admits about 1 million legal immigrants a year and Asia has surpassed Latin America has a source of these immigrants. This graph might include illegals as well. Regardless you can see from above we aren't getting many net new illegals.


The shift to asia is likely a good trend because:

Quote: Immigrants from Latin America are, on average, poorer and less educated than native-born Americans. Asian immigrants are the opposite: They are, on average, wealthier and better educated — not just compared to other immigrants but also compared to native-born Americans.

The overall latino population is increasing quickly in the US, but not because of very recent (last 10 years) immigration


But this won't end up being that bad because increasingly this latino population is actually becoming americanized and assimilated.

Quote:Latinos are looking more and more like other Americans. Nearly 68 percent of U.S. Hispanics speak English fluently, up from 59 percent in 2000; more than a quarter report speaking only English at home. Latino high school graduates are now more likely than whites to enroll in college, although they are still less likely to graduate. Latinos are becoming less likely to be Catholic and choosing to have smaller families, and they more closely resemble the population at large on social issues such as abortion and gay rights. Nearly half of all Hispanics and about two-thirds of native-born Hispanics consider themselves to be “a typical American.”

Now onto immigration reform. The the overall concepts of comprehensive immigration reform is very popular including some form of amnesty. Other polls back this up.


And America actually has a more stingy wellfare state for immigrants compared to most western countries.

Quote: Unlike in some European countries, it is extremely hard for an able-bodied immigrant to live off the state. A law passed in 1996 explicitly bars most immigrants, even those with legal status, from receiving almost any federal benefits.

I'm all for a sane immigration system where illegal immigration is much more difficult, but you need to work on the employers as much as securing the border. The reality is at some point in the not so distant future amnesty will pass and it's not going to be that big of a deal. The anti-immigration wing of the republican party is just hurting every other issue (including securing the border now) by not being more moderate.

Sources:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/immi...on-debate/
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/immig...on-growth/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-...listening/
http://www.economist.com/news/united-sta...magine-not

Post: #39

Amnesty will be a HUGE deal. This country is already on the verge of an economic melt down. Add that many more welfare recipients to the system and it will only speed up the process. And if they are going to be a majority of Democrat voters, as many predict, that is even worse news for all of us non elite class member males.

This is a disaster for any guy just trying to make it in this country.

Post: #40

@Tpiddy, An illegal immigrant can get welfare benefits as long as they have a dependent born on US soil.

Post: #41

Fuck illegal vs. legal. That distinction is for people who don't think for themselves.

Right or wrong should be the criteria.

Now open the borders, ALL borders in EVERY country.

That is all I wanted to say.

Post: #42

(07-17-2014 03:57 AM)ElBorrachoInfamoso Wrote:  Fuck illegal vs. legal. That distinction is for people who don't think for themselves.

Right or wrong should be the criteria.

Now open the borders, ALL borders in EVERY country.

That is all I wanted to say.

Worst. Idea. Ever.

People in all nations have the right to self-determination. Flooding their countries undermines their own sovereignty. Nations without borders are not nations at all.

All you are doing is inviting the destruction of the civilized world. First worlders are certainly not going to immigrate to third world countries. It will be only third worlders that immigrate to first world countries.

The more you flood first world countries with third world peoples, the more third world that first world country becomes.

We are not all the same. The people you bring into your countries should matter.

If we were to import 100,000 Somalis into a small town, like Zanesville, what do you think what happen to that town? Would it begin to look like Paris, London, New York, or Tokyo because we gave these people a chance? NO. It would look like Mogadishu.

Another example: the Haiti vs. Japanese earthquakes. Both got hit by massive earthquakes. on top of that Japan got hit by a tsunami and nuclear reactor meltdown. Haiti received 3x the amount of foreign aid that Japan did in order to rebuild. Let's take a look at the before and after:

Japan before and after:


Haiti before and after:


So why such a massive discrepancy in rebuilding despite receiving 3x the amount of aid? The answer: its the people in those countries. Japan has something Haiti does not: The Japanese people.

If we could magically with the snap of our fingers switch the places of all the Japanese people and the Haitian people (so all the Japanese end up in Haiti and all the Haitians end up in Japan), those two countries would look vastly different in just a couple years.

People matter. Nations matter. Borders matter.

Post: #43

We are tailing about sovereignty here, its a question of having the government representing the people and vice versa. If you have no borders then this concept will seize to exist, probably bringing about no government or some totalitarian regime in place. I never believed any of this cultural relativist type thinking, countries and people are in the situations they are in mostly because of their culture and how it operates. You look at Eastern European, an area which has been hindered massively by poverty, dictatorships and even wars. Mostly its very peaceful, and they are recovered very well. I won't even mentioned Japan and South Korea, it blows out the whole relativist argument out of the water.

Post: #44

(07-17-2014 06:38 AM)objectivist tree Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 03:57 AM)ElBorrachoInfamoso Wrote:  Fuck illegal vs. legal. That distinction is for people who don't think for themselves.

Right or wrong should be the criteria.

Now open the borders, ALL borders in EVERY country.

That is all I wanted to say.

Worst. Idea. Ever.

People in all nations have the right to self-determination. Flooding their countries undermines their own sovereignty. Nations without borders are not nations at all.

All you are doing is inviting the destruction of the civilized world. First worlders are certainly not going to immigrate to third world countries. It will be only third worlders that immigrate to first world countries.

The more you flood first world countries with third world peoples, the more third world that first world country becomes.

We are not all the same. The people you bring into your countries should matter.

If we were to import 100,000 Somalis into a small town, like Zanesville, what do you think what happen to that town? Would it begin to look like Paris, London, New York, or Tokyo because we gave these people a chance? NO. It would look like Mogadishu.

Another example: the Haiti vs. Japanese earthquakes. Both got hit by massive earthquakes. on top of that Japan got hit by a tsunami and nuclear reactor meltdown. Haiti received 3x the amount of foreign aid that Japan did in order to rebuild. Let's take a look at the before and after:

Japan before and after:


Haiti before and after:


So why such a massive discrepancy in rebuilding despite receiving 3x the amount of aid? The answer: its the people in those countries. Japan has something Haiti does not: The Japanese people.

If we could magically with the snap of our fingers switch the places of all the Japanese people and the Haitian people (so all the Japanese end up in Haiti and all the Haitians end up in Japan), those two countries would look vastly different in just a couple years.

People matter. Nations matter. Borders matter.

Couldn't be more red pill. Totally agrees.

I just taking a little town near to me as example.
First they took in a big bunch of Vietnamese immigrants, what did they do?

They adapted. They worked hard. They opened their restaurants and their own businesses. Everybody welcomed them to the society.

Secondly they took in a big bunch of Somalians, what did they do?
Living on social welfare, commiting crimes and enjoying their lives.
Do you think these people has been accepted into the society?
No.


Nations matters,people matters,border matters.
There are differences.

Post: #45

Concerning the Somali's;

Quote:I live in the Seward neighborhood of Minneapolis, which is immediately adjacent to the Cedar Riverside neighborhood where the majority of the Somali population lives. We also have high-rise public housing that is predominantly Somali, along with many Somali businesses and the main public elementary school serving the Somali population. I regularly take my child to play in parks where we are the only non-Somali people, shop in the halal markets, and try to keep up with issues of importance to the Somali community by following the local and national websites catering to the Somali Diaspora (i.e. Bartamaha, Hiiraan, Camel Milk Threads…). All in all I would say that as an outsider I have about as much exposure to the Somali population as possible without being a social worker.

And I must say that I am very worried by what I see.

While many Somalis are hard working, law abiding, good citizens, there appears to be a significant percentage who maintain their clan ties and animosities, make no attempt at integrating themselves into the general population, and are prone to violence. Some of the violence is Somali vs. Somali- for example the triple murder at the Seward Market in 2010 and the daytime shooting a few weeks ago on Franklin Ave. But a lot of it is more akin to the piracy which takes place off the Somali coast: gangs of Somalis have been mugging area bicyclists for years and the trail that follows the light rail. Residents of Minneapolis will also likely remember the youtube video posted by young Somali gangsters a year or two back showing them assaulting random pedestrians and bicyclists with no apparent motive other than laughs.

In addition to the violence, there seems to be other major “quality of life” issue with the Somali population. For example, rampant littering, uninsured driving, treatment of Somali women as chattel and sex slaves by the men, welfare fraud. Even little actions show great disrespect: II can say honestly that every person I have seen but into a line in the last few years has been a young Somali.

While it would be worrying enough that there is a group in the state with this apparent love of violence and disrespect of social conventions, what makes me even more scared is the growth of the community. Although I have never been able to find any firm numbers, it appears that the local Somali community is maintaining the fertility rate of their homeland- somewhere around 5 or 6 kids per family. And likewise- although official numbers are not available a huge percentage of the Somali population relies on public money and social services for almost every facet of their lives (i.e. subsidized housing, food stamps, use of our public county hospital…). Honestly, I do not see how Minnesota (and Minneapolis/Hennepin County in particular) will be able to support this population in the future. And if public support ever goes away, the muggings seem sure to get even more frequent.

I welcome the fact that CBS opened a comment section on this story. Our local papers, the Star Tribune and the Pioneer Press will almost never allow comments on articles related to the Somali community, and when they do the comments are heavily censured. Likewise the local community email list, e-democracy.org, will kill any thread which talks about crime related to the Somali community. While I understand not wanting to provide a space for ignorant racial ranting it also means that there is not a single open forum in Minneapolis where issues surrounding this issue can be discussed.

As a lifelong resident of Minnesota I have seen waves of immigrants come to our state, due to the work of Lutheran Social Services. And I welcome (for example) the Liberians, Hmong, Laotians, Cambodians and Ethiopians who arrived ready to work hard and make a better live. But being close to the heart of the Somali community, I think I am starting to understand why Somalia has not been able to maintain a government since 1991.

http://refugeeresettlementwatch.wordpres...nneapolis/

It should be noted that these are not even illegals, but rather refugees brought here by the Federal Government.

Nothing like poisoning your own well.....

Post: #46

(07-16-2014 10:44 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  I'd rather not get distracted by this trifling bullshit and keep my eyes on the hands of the multinationals about to double my rates, put cameras in my house, dumb down my women even more with facile diversions, or figure out a way to charge me for something that's always been free.

So why do you keep voting for democrats?



Most of the liberals in this board are in deep denial.

Post: #47

(07-17-2014 09:51 AM)Samseau Wrote:  So why do you keep voting for democrats?

Most of the liberals in this board are in deep denial.

1. What makes you think I vote for Democrats?

2. I'm not a "liberal." I have cocktail of liberal and conservative views, as do most members of this board (though it varies from person to person). Seeing people in that binary is a very simplistic worldview pushed by Fox News and its ilk.

3. The Democratic Party in the United States is only "liberal" about a couple of things (e.g., the so-called wage gap and gay stuff). It's otherwise a deeply corporate-friendly centrist, or right-of-center, party by global standards.

Post: #48

(07-17-2014 10:01 AM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 09:51 AM)Samseau Wrote:  So why do you keep voting for democrats?

1. What makes you think I vote for Democrats?

2. I'm not a "liberal." I have cocktail of liberal and conservative views, as do most members of this board (though it varies from person to person). Seeing people in that binary is a very simplistic worldview pushed by Fox News and its ilk.

3. The Democratic Party in the United States is only "liberal" about a couple of things (e.g., the so-called wage gap and gay stuff). It's otherwise a deeply corporate-friendly centrist, or right-of-center, party by global standards.

1. Pretty sure you were defending Obama back in 2012, but perhaps you've changed since then, or I'm just mistaken. Either way, anyone who votes for a Democrat is literally voting for the party of Satan as far as I'm concerned.

Voting Republican is still a big no-no, but I can forgive that. If you are a man voting for the Democratic party then you're insane.

2. I know you've got nuances, but when you come in dismissing such an important issue (illegal immigration) then it's easy to dismiss your views as well.

Illegal immigration IS cultural collapse.

3. Liberal is just a word. It's easy to use it because everyone knows what I'm talking about; The democratic party wants some of the highest tax rates in the world, combined with cheap slave labor, destruction of traditional values, and huge money printing, inability to balance a budget, etc. Where else does one find such a toxic combination of policies?

So yeah, I know liberal is a simplification but until someone invents a better word for political discourse then liberal will suffice.

Post: #49

(07-17-2014 10:17 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 10:01 AM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  

(07-17-2014 09:51 AM)Samseau Wrote:  So why do you keep voting for democrats?

1. What makes you think I vote for Democrats?

2. I'm not a "liberal." I have cocktail of liberal and conservative views, as do most members of this board (though it varies from person to person). Seeing people in that binary is a very simplistic worldview pushed by Fox News and its ilk.

3. The Democratic Party in the United States is only "liberal" about a couple of things (e.g., the so-called wage gap and gay stuff). It's otherwise a deeply corporate-friendly centrist, or right-of-center, party by global standards.

1. Pretty sure you were defending Obama back in 2012, but perhaps you've changed since then, or I'm just mistaken. Either way, anyone who votes for a Democrat is literally voting for the party of Satan as far as I'm concerned.

Voting Republican is still a big no-no, but I can forgive that. If you are a man voting for the Democratic party then you're insane.

2. I know you've got nuances, but when you come in dismissing such an important issue (illegal immigration) then it's easy to dismiss your views as well.

Illegal immigration IS cultural collapse.

3. Liberal is just a word. It's easy to use it because everyone knows what I'm talking about; The democratic party wants some of the highest tax rates in the world, combined with cheap slave labor, destruction of traditional values, and huge money printing, inability to balance a budget, etc. Where else does one find such a toxic combination of policies?

So yeah, I know liberal is a simplification but until someone invents a better word for political discourse then liberal will suffice.

1) True. There is nothing more blue pill than voting for the Democratic party. It is literally a feminist party run by the N.O.W. You don't have to vote Republican, there are other Independent party members to vote for. There are tons of things I disagree with the Republicans on. But the only thing the Democrats may get right in views of a Red Pill male are abortion rights (and that is a hot debate here) and legalizing pot. And these things are tiny issues when you can't find a job or rape laws continue to get extended.

2) Being the immigration issue ties in directly to the economy AND national defense (some border agents claim that Islamic extremists are offering $50,000 for the cartels to sneak them in), this might be the most important issue of our generation.

3) It is tough, because a "classic liberal" is a libertarian, which is nearly the opposite of the Democratic party style "liberal". So I just call them socialists. They want the govt. to control everything in their lives, so it is close enough to give a broad description.

Post: #50

(07-17-2014 10:17 AM)Samseau Wrote:  1. Pretty sure you were defending Obama back in 2012, but perhaps you've changed since then, or I'm just mistaken. Either way, anyone who votes for a Democrat is literally voting for the party of Satan as far as I'm concerned.

Voting Republican is still a big no-no, but I can forgive that. If you are a man voting for the Democratic party then you're insane.

I don't remember what I said last month, never mind 2012, but I can be certain that I wasn't blindly "defending Obama." Not calling him the devil is not defending him. That said, I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve by dragging my personal beliefs into this thread.

Republicans and Democrats are, in my opinion, two sides of the exact same coin. Neither is looking out for our interests. The president has way less power than people think. All politicians are beholden to their corporate donors. The same multinationals donate to both parties. The list goes on and on.

(07-17-2014 10:17 AM)Samseau Wrote:  2. I know you've got nuances, but when you come in dismissing such an important issue (illegal immigration) then it's easy to dismiss your views as well.

Illegal immigration IS cultural collapse.

I have problems with unchecked illegal immigration and some of the arguments against it--from the manosphere, the conservative media, and miscellaneous commentators. I'd have to write an essay to articulate them and I'm too lazy to do that. It's also pointless and a distraction, as far as I'm concerned.

(07-17-2014 10:17 AM)Samseau Wrote:  3. Liberal is just a word. It's easy to use it because everyone knows what I'm talking about; The democratic party wants some of the highest tax rates in the world, combined with cheap slave labor, destruction of traditional values, and huge money printing, inability to balance a budget, etc. Where else does one find such a toxic combination of policies?

Liberal isn't just a word, it's a catch-all. So-called conservatives in this country are also complicit in the very things you've itemized here.

You really should move away from this dichotomy. I think it's one of the great weaknesses of the manosphere, to think that "red pill" = conservative. Red pill equals neither and both. It's about unplugging from the narratives being crammed down our throat by the media and zeitgeist.